Paging Sylvan to the CAS courtesy desk

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Paging Sylvan to the CAS courtesy desk

Posted: 4/19/2017 2:48:02 PM EDT

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9Pq5JZ2Fd8

I wonder if denying those air strikes won any hearts and minds.

Posted: 4/19/2017 2:52:10 PM EDT

[#1]

I wonder if the General's staff had the Lt's bang out memos while their dudes were getting blasted.

"He fucked up the signature block!!!! Denied."

Posted: 4/19/2017 3:08:59 PM EDT

[#2]

What're the chances each cas request went to PR for analysis and a % chance of swaying public opinion , etc.

Then they just shrug it off, no biggie! Marines can get shot at a little while longer.

Posted: 4/19/2017 3:16:05 PM EDT

[#3]

Not a Marine. But I'd imagine the ground commanders are doing a cost/benefit analysis on their own careers. It's not going to cost him anything to deny approval, but could potentially cost him his career if he authorizes a 9-line and it goes sideways.

Posted: 4/19/2017 3:18:00 PM EDT

[#4]

More Kiowas..........and Apaches too I guess.

Posted: 4/19/2017 4:21:05 PM EDT

[#5]

Thought kiowas got axed? Anyways , this makes it seem like it doesn't matter whether it's apache, turboprop, or space ship providing cas; if the commanders won't authorize them , then.......... dildos

Posted: 4/19/2017 4:24:39 PM EDT

[#6]

@Sylvan

ETA: @Kubota3430

Posted: 4/19/2017 4:28:47 PM EDT

[#7]

lol,

the semi-annual USMC calfex in Helmand that takes up every asset in RC South and does absolutely nothing useful except provide justification for EOT awards.

Posted: 4/19/2017 5:30:45 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

I wonder if denying those air strikes won any hearts and minds.

View Quote

Nope, but probably cost U.S. a few.

Posted: 4/19/2017 5:43:45 PM EDT

[#9]

The funny thing is, the USMC has their own dedicated air force (assets) just because they don't trust the USAF to provide their air support...and then they go and (doctrinally) use their air force (Marine Air) just like the USAF treats the Army WRT CAS.

Posted: 4/19/2017 5:55:10 PM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
Not a Marine. But I'd imagine the ground commanders are doing a cost/benefit analysis on their own careers. It's not going to cost him anything to deny approval, but could potentially cost him his career if he authorizes a 9-line and it goes sideways.

View Quote

This.

Back before things became as PC as they became, typically "the commander" could authorize CAS/CCA with the commander being the guy in charge of whatever the supported unit was (typically a PLT LDR or a CO CDR; in extremis, a PLT SGT or 1SG).

Then it became "the commander" (CO CDR)...then BN/TF CDR, then battlespace/AO/BDE CDR...etc...and then came the weaponeering from afar.

Once they started wiping out everyone in the CoC if something went wrong, it was over.

Posted: 4/19/2017 5:55:28 PM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
The funny thing is, the USMC has their own dedicated air force (assets) just because they don't trust the USAF to provide their air support...and then they go and (doctrinally) use their air force (Marine Air) just like the USAF treats the Army WRT CAS.

View Quote

marine CAS doctrine is much closer to the USAF version of CAFthan CCA.

Posted: 4/19/2017 6:28:50 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/312795/IMG-2292-190880.JPG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9Pq5JZ2Fd8

I wonder if denying those air strikes won any hearts and minds.

View Quote

The first WIA in that video is my ex wife's cousin Casey Doc Morrison he was pissed!

Posted: 4/19/2017 6:49:10 PM EDT

[#13]

The best fire support asset in my experience was field artillery. Those people were on your FOB, had a CoC in your TOC, ate next to you, slept next to you, and cared about you. If you took care of them theyd take care of you

Shadow UAV crews were also highly effective...if they were on your FOB. UAVs with field artillery were tough to stop.

CAS and CCA were not your tribe. They were strangers. They might care, they might not.

Its still a people business.

Posted: 4/19/2017 7:21:26 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
The best fire support asset in my experience was field artillery. Those people were on your FOB, had a CoC in your TOC, ate next to you, slept next to you, and cared about you. If you took care of them theyd take care of you

Shadow UAV crews were also highly effective...if they were on your FOB. UAVs with field artillery were tough to stop.

CAS and CCA were not your tribe. They were strangers. They might care, they might not.

Its still a people business.

View Quote

After major TICs my NCOs and I would convoy over to the aviation base and watch gun tapes with the crews and S-3 of their battalion

Posted: 4/19/2017 7:33:54 PM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:

After major TICs my NCOs and I would convoy over to the aviation base and watch gun tapes with the crews and S-3 of their battalion

View Quote

this.

If you know you're gonna use air, do AGI. build capacity, sell the mission, integrate

Posted: 4/19/2017 8:00:15 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:

this.

If you know you're gonna use air, do AGI. build capacity, sell the mission, integrate

View Quote

at some risk and great PITA we would bring back motorcycles and shit for them so they got some war booty.

Posted: 4/19/2017 8:36:19 PM EDT

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:
The funny thing is, the USMC has their own dedicated air force (assets) just because they don't trust the USAF to provide their air support...and then they go and (doctrinally) use their air force (Marine Air) just like the USAF treats the Army WRT CAS.

View Quote

If this is true.... real retarded

Posted: 4/19/2017 8:37:16 PM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:

The first WIA in that video is my ex wife's cousin Casey Doc Morrison he was pissed!

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/312795/IMG-2292-190880.JPG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9Pq5JZ2Fd8

I wonder if denying those air strikes won any hearts and minds.

The first WIA in that video is my ex wife's cousin Casey Doc Morrison he was pissed!

He sounded pissed, like dammit I just got here !!

Posted: 4/20/2017 2:26:12 PM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
The best fire support asset in my experience was field artillery. Those people were on your FOB, had a CoC in your TOC, ate next to you, slept next to you, and cared about you. If you took care of them theyd take care of you

Shadow UAV crews were also highly effective...if they were on your FOB. UAVs with field artillery were tough to stop.

CAS ~~and CCA~~ were not your tribe. They were strangers. They might care, they might not.

Its still a people business.

View Quote

Agreed except for the CCA...nothing like having a 58 or even an Apache once land in the middle of your firefight for a face-to-face.

Posted: 4/20/2017 2:34:36 PM EDT

[#20]

... We're our own worst enemy. It will never go away in my lifetime. But can you imagine the awesome force of a unified USA military would be?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Paging Sylvan to the CAS courtesy desk

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