[ARCHIVED THREAD] - POUND FEET (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/26/2007 11:51:46 AM EDT
Am I the only one that just get IRKED whenever somebody says, "POUND FEET"???  COME ON PEOPLE! GET YOUR UNIT TERMS CORRECT! FOOT POUNDS!!!  Idiots!Just ask ANY STRUCTURAL ENGINEER!!! If they have any clue about the units they know it's FOOT POUNDS, not POUND FEET! It's the POUNDS THAT IS PLURAL, NOT THE 'FEET'  FOOT POUNDS as in XXX Pounds per Foot! Not XXX Pound per FEET!!!11!!!ONE!!!1! Get it right or the Unit Gods will POUND YOUR FEET with a hammer...  Sorry, it just kind of IRKS ME like when I hear people say, "My 1911 prefers WILSON 47D CLIPS!!!11!1!!!ONE!!1! |
Amen!!!!!! This is mt pet peev also. On car shows on TV they guy builds up an engine and says it will put out 400 pound feet of Tq. I through the remoat and yell at him "you friggin' moron!!! You can build an engine but you can't say the right unit of measurment(foot pounds)!!!!!!! 
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what does having proper word use matter to technical abilities. for all i care, i could call my wrench a hammer, and my sockets nails, and id still get an engine built. be 400 dogs eggs to tighten up though. |
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Foot-pounds or pound-feet? Electrical Apparatus, Sep 2004 by Nailen, Richard L Use the terms interchangeably and people may question your technical competence WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE between foot-pounds and pound-feet? Both consist of the same units-a force and a distance-multiplied together. The physical quantities being expressed, however, are quite different. Yet applying the terms interchangeably is one of the most common misuses of technical language. The product of a force times a distance, as in "pound-feet" ("Newton-meters," for those metrically inclined), is torque. In electric machinery, we all know what torque means. It's the turning effort developed by a motor that causes a shaft to rotate. Based on the simple principle of the lever, torque is increased by either increasing the force itself (as by strengthening a magnetic field) or by increasing the distance-the lever arm -between the point efforce application and the axis of rotation. (Anyone using a wrench is familial with that concept.) Any physics text or engineering handbook will make the principle clear and will define force times distancepounds times feet, or ounces times inches-as torque. To "say it right," remember the universal standard convention that the force comes first; the distance second. So, is "foot-pounds" meaningless, then? Not at all. When the distance is named first, and the force second, the product represents something equally real but quite different: work. Work measures the expenditure of energy. Thus, when a mass is lifted through a distance (against the force of gravity), or moved horizontally against a friction force, the amount of work done is measured by the product of the force involved and the distance moved. Increasing either one increases the amount of work. How faxt that work is done is a measure of power (horsepower or watts). For example, if a 100-pound weight is lifted 5fi feet in one second, the work done is 550 foot-pounds, and the power involved is 550 foot-pounds per second-which equals one horsepower (746 watts). Whether speaking of torque, then, as related to fastener tightening or motor capability, use the term putting force first (as in pound-feet). Putting the distance first (as in foot-pounds) is not equivalent; it represents something not at all related to torque. And as we've said elsewhere and often, using technical terms incorrectly invites skepticism concerning your knowledge of technology. By Richard L. Nailen, P.E., EA Engineering Editor Copyright Barks Publications Sep 2004 Provided by ProQuest Information and Learning Company. All rights Reserved |
I wish I could have went through school that way....any word/term will work.....I'd be a valadictorian!
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Ironically, I just got through trying to find out whether - once and for all - "an historical event" or "a historical event" is the correct usage. I say "a historical event" is correct. It appears most of the big brains in English agree with me even though a shitload of people don't pronounce the "h" in "historical," thus making "an" correct as well if they leave the "h" silent.  Example: You'd say "There's a hysterical woman in the lobby," not "there's an hysterical woman in the lobby." Right? Right. Then why the hell would someone say, "There's an historical event happening" when it's the same language and the same rules apply? See? Ha!  
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Sorry, the purpose of this posting was because I was recently irked when a guy on a different forum said his 1911 handloads fired with a certain POUND FEET of energy.
Sorry, your book is WRONG! BOTH TORQUE & ENERGY ARE MEASURED IN FOOD POUNDS. "1 foot-pound is the amount of torque created by a force of 1 pound acting at a perpendicular distance of 1 foot from a pivot point. Used to calculate torque stresses & load stresses on floors and their shear moments, used to calculate torque output in vehicles, and also used in measurement of Energy. It is FOOT POUNDS FOR BOTH. How do one measure POUND FEET??? Mortimer: That thar engine puts out 230 pound feet... So... Cleatus, that must mean for every 230 Feet it travels it exerts ONE Pound of Force, right??? Cleatus: Gee, Mortimer, I don't know, that sounds like an awful tiny force to me... Mortimer: I'm RIGHT DAMMIT! It's POUND FEET! Not FOOT POUNDS!!!  Says so in the Manual!It's like when people try to tell me about "Centrifugal" acceleration... NOOOOOOO! THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CENTRIFUGAL ACCELERATION!!! IT DOESN'T EXIST!!! There is NEGATIVE CENTRIPETAL acceleration, but there IS NO SUCH THING as Centrifugal acceleration. Centripetal acceleration occurs when a CENTRIFUGE (A ROTATING MACHINE - Not a Form of Acceleration) rotates various objects/chemicals and creates NEGATIVE CENTRIPETAL ACCELERATION.
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| For me it's people using the term "tolerances" when they mean "clearances" I don't get all that worked up about it, but for God's sakes, if you're going to use the term at least take the time to at least get a basic understanding of what it means. And when you're corrected, stop acting like the person correcting you is an asshole. They're trying to help keep you from sounding like a clueless idiot, which no doubt is a hopeless task, but at least they're trying. |
I LOL'ed. 
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If I remember my English rules properly, if the word before the A or AN (in your examples "historical" or hysterical") begins with a consonant, then you use "A". If it begins with a vowel than you use "AN". So, "A historical event" is correct as is "An amazing event". Also, "A cat" or "A dog" as well as "An ostrich" or "an ant" are all correct. |
TECHNICALLY the TORQUE can be increased by 1.) INCREASING THE FORCE (POUNDS - PLURAL), or 2.) INCREASING THE DISTANCE (Feet being the Plural form here). HOWEVER, for the sake of Comparison from ONE torque-producing machine versus another (the Distances of the lever arm will not be the same), so the FORCE COMES FIRST as universal standard convention, and the 1 FOOT becomes the unit that standardizes the torque force comparisons! It's POUNDS PER FOOT technically, but shortened by stating 'Foot Pounds'... It's the difference between WORK and Energy/Torque... |
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it really doesn't matter, since it is the unit of moment torque... it means the amount of force in pounds applied over a 1ft distance arm... and just like a Newton meter, the unit is actually FOOT X POUNDS, thanks to the commutative law of multiplication, POUNDS X FOOT (POUNDS FEET) is identical. the OP you are wrong, it is not POUNDS PER FOOT. it is pounds of force applied at a one foot distance from the point. this is why when using a torque wrench you are supposed to grab it at the handle not choke up on it. they are calibrated to read force from X inches away from head. pounds of force over a foot length is actually work/energy, not torque. this is simple physics. and i hate physics. |
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Torque is the same, reaction force isn't. This is why "cheater bars" are more effective...less reaction force. |
... not gonna say it...
My defense to this one is a little chineese lady (tried to) teach me physics. One reason I nearly failed (subsequently changing my major) is that I couldn't tell a difference between her pronouncing centripetal and centrifugal. I didn't know there was "centripetal" force until after the class was over! That was just the tip of the ice burg
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You have stated this twice, but you are incorrect. It is not pounds per foot, technically or otherwise. It is pounds times feet. And multiplication is a commutative operation, so foot-pounds or pound-feet, the result is the same. Furthermore, there are documented conventions for when to use foot-pounds and when to use pound-feet as others have posted, and yet you seem to be going against those conventions. I give your rant a 3/10.  Personally, I don't get worked up over either term. Life is too short to get torqued about such stuff. And I generally add "torque" or convert to another unit of work to make it clear what I am trying to convey anyway. (Both puns completely intended) |
I sort of assumed we were talking about torque, but what is different about reaction force? Is the formula not a product of force x distance? |
That's exactly right, but it has become extremely common for even very educated people to say "an historical," which, technically, is not quite correct. However, it's not that simple. The "h" is not being pronounced these days in many words. Thus, if they are actually saying "istorical," then it is acceptable - not necessarily correct, but acceptable - to say "an istorical event." Why are they dropping the "h?" Well, nobody really knows. It's just the way language, dialects, and accents evolve it appears.I know, it's goofy, but such is the English language. In my mind there is no way around it: the word "historical" begins with an "h" and that's the way it is. However, I also pronounce the "h" when I say it. Consequently, by the most stringent of rules, I have always been correct in my usage, particularly regarding the written word. However, "istorical" has become so common that linguists are forced to see it as another correct pronunciation of the word. This whole language thing is for the birds. |
Read the Article posted on the first page (by somebody else), that I also quoted above. Both TORQUE and ENERGY are measured in Foot Pounds. The Commutative Law of Multiplication in USE OF UNIT TERMS is irrelavent due to the UNIVERSAL STANDARD CONVENTION. However, WORK is measured in POUND FEET. Sounds Gay, I know, but I'm not the one that made up the Universal Standard Convention, but when you talk to an Engineer about POUND FEET they're likely to look at you like some kind or R-tard.
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these days, torque and horsepower are measured at the flywheel not the wheel (tire). but let's say the 230 was measured at the wheel (tire) by a dyno... you could place a really long, ideal stiff rod that will not bend (doesn't exist) across two of the lug nuts crossing through the center of rotation. 230' from the center of rotation/moment, the perpendicular force would be 1 pound. not that it matters. |