goddamn motherfuckers. there goes the a-10s and the c-130s well the old worn out 130s.

if it goes through a reserve C-130 wing will be based  with 16 newer birds.


and you have to wonder was the reason for the closer because the goverment of springlake nc would not give up the land to extend popes runway.

well i hope mr bush tells them to fuckoff about moving the a-10s they can get rid of the older 130s they need new ones anyway.

The 82nd airbornes loyal service to this country for so many decades. and this is how they repay them buy stealing the planes.

and yes i know they can get them if they need them.that is not the point.

the point is the 82nd is a rapid response division and how our they going to keep up the gone in 72 hours moto if the planes our gone.

POPE AFB no more



BRAC Votes on Pope AFB's Future
AP The Associated Press

(08/26/05 - WASHINGTON, DC) - Pope Air Force Base will become an Army airfield that's part of neighboring Fort Bragg under a recommendation endorsed Friday by a federal commission.
As part of the process, the base will send all of its 25 C-130E airplanes to Little Rock Air Force Base in Arkansas and will lose the 36 A-10 fighter planes from the 23rd Fighter Group to Moody Air Force Base in Georgia.

The commission considering the Pentagon's proposal to close or downsize hundreds of military bases nationwide largely agreed with the Defense Department's wishes for Pope.

But they did make a few changes. Sixteen C-130 transport planes that were to come to Pope from Reserve and National Guard units instead will come from a reserve unit at Pittsburgh and another location to be determined to form what the commission called a "reserve/active duty associate unit," officials said.

The commission also recommended the Air Force establish an operations command to coordinate missions with the Army.

Fort Bragg is home to the 82nd Airborne Division, which leaves from Pope as part of its rapid deployment mission.

It was unclear immediately how many jobs would be affected by the decision.

The federal commission is considering the Pentagon's proposal to restructure hundreds of U.S. military bases. President Bush can accept or reject the commission's final report of recommendations in its entirety, or send it back to the commission for revisions. Congress can also veto the commission's plan, something it has not done in four previous rounds of base closures.

Quoted: goddamn motherfuckers. there goes the a-10s and the c-130s well the old worn out 130s. if it goes through a reserve C-130 wing will be based  with 16 newer birds. and you have to wonder was the reason for the closer because the assfuck citizens of nearby springlake nc would not give up the land to extend popes runway. well i hope mr bush tells them to fuckoff about moving the a-10s they can get rid of the older 130s they need new ones anyway. The 82nd airbornes loyal service to this country for so many decades. and this is how they repay them buy stealing the planes. and yes i know they can get them if they need them.that is not the point. the point is the 82nd is a rapid response division and how our they going to keep up the gone in 72 hours moto if the planes our gone. POPE AFB no more BRAC Votes on Pope AFB's Future AP The Associated Press (08/26/05 - WASHINGTON, DC) - Pope Air Force Base will become an Army airfield that's part of neighboring Fort Bragg under a recommendation endorsed Friday by a federal commission. As part of the process, the base will send all of its 25 C-130E airplanes to Little Rock Air Force Base in Arkansas and will lose the 36 A-10 fighter planes from the 23rd Fighter Group to Moody Air Force Base in Georgia. The commission considering the Pentagon's proposal to close or downsize hundreds of military bases nationwide largely agreed with the Defense Department's wishes for Pope. But they did make a few changes. Sixteen C-130 transport planes that were to come to Pope from Reserve and National Guard units instead will come from a reserve unit at Pittsburgh and another location to be determined to form what the commission called a "reserve/active duty associate unit," officials said. The commission also recommended the Air Force establish an operations command to coordinate missions with the Army. Fort Bragg is home to the 82nd Airborne Division, which leaves from Pope as part of its rapid deployment mission. It was unclear immediately how many jobs would be affected by the decision. The federal commission is considering the Pentagon's proposal to restructure hundreds of U.S. military bases. President Bush can accept or reject the commission's final report of recommendations in its entirety, or send it back to the commission for revisions. Congress can also veto the commission's plan, something it has not done in four previous rounds of base closures.

This is what eminent domain is all about.  Not so some puke can build a hotel.  I was with 1st SOCOM at Bragg (Yes, there are more than just the 82nd at Bragg) and spent a lot of time on green ramp at Pope.  If they need to close an AF base, they shouldn't target one with Popes mission.  Take the necessary land, extend the runways and bring in new aircraft.  Get the B1's out of BFE and move them to Pope.  That will close a useless base and protect one that is truly needed.  Also, it will drastically reduce the turnaround time for the B1's and save a shit load of fuel.  Would take at least one refuel out of the equation and think of the multi millions that would save.  But, then again, do not try to apply logic to anything done by Washington.

Politics...I never did much like politics.  I suppose they must have had a good reason that I'm just not seeing.  Maybe I'll blow the dust off of the BRAC report.

Quoted: Quoted: goddamn motherfuckers. there goes the a-10s and the c-130s well the old worn out 130s. if it goes through a reserve C-130 wing will be based  with 16 newer birds. and you have to wonder was the reason for the closer because the assfuck citizens of nearby springlake nc would not give up the land to extend popes runway. well i hope mr bush tells them to fuckoff about moving the a-10s they can get rid of the older 130s they need new ones anyway. The 82nd airbornes loyal service to this country for so many decades. and this is how they repay them buy stealing the planes. and yes i know they can get them if they need them.that is not the point. the point is the 82nd is a rapid response division and how our they going to keep up the gone in 72 hours moto if the planes our gone. POPE AFB no more BRAC Votes on Pope AFB's Future AP The Associated Press (08/26/05 - WASHINGTON, DC) - Pope Air Force Base will become an Army airfield that's part of neighboring Fort Bragg under a recommendation endorsed Friday by a federal commission. As part of the process, the base will send all of its 25 C-130E airplanes to Little Rock Air Force Base in Arkansas and will lose the 36 A-10 fighter planes from the 23rd Fighter Group to Moody Air Force Base in Georgia. The commission considering the Pentagon's proposal to close or downsize hundreds of military bases nationwide largely agreed with the Defense Department's wishes for Pope. But they did make a few changes. Sixteen C-130 transport planes that were to come to Pope from Reserve and National Guard units instead will come from a reserve unit at Pittsburgh and another location to be determined to form what the commission called a "reserve/active duty associate unit," officials said. The commission also recommended the Air Force establish an operations command to coordinate missions with the Army. Fort Bragg is home to the 82nd Airborne Division, which leaves from Pope as part of its rapid deployment mission. It was unclear immediately how many jobs would be affected by the decision. The federal commission is considering the Pentagon's proposal to restructure hundreds of U.S. military bases. President Bush can accept or reject the commission's final report of recommendations in its entirety, or send it back to the commission for revisions. Congress can also veto the commission's plan, something it has not done in four previous rounds of base closures. This is what eminent domain is all about.  Not so some puke can build a hotel.  I was with 1st SOCOM at Bragg (Yes, there are more than just the 82nd at Bragg) and spent a lot of time on green ramp at Pope.  If they need to close an AF base, they shouldn't target one with Popes mission.  Take the necessary land, extend the runways and bring in new aircraft.  Get the B1's out of BFE and move them to Pope.  That will close a useless base and protect one that is truly needed.  Also, it will drastically reduce the turnaround time for the B1's and save a shit load of fuel.  Would take at least one refuel out of the equation and think of the multi millions that would save.  But, then again, do not try to apply logic to anything done by Washington.

PsyWarrior i know there is alot of units at bragg just use the 82nd as thats is what everyone knows is there. cool idea about bringing the b-1s here that would be cool never happen but cool idea.

Quoted: the point is the 82nd is a rapid response division and how our they going to keep up the gone in 72 hours moto if the planes our gone.

If the 82nd needs of do a rapid deployment they don't go by -130, they will go by C-5s or C-17s.

If you will take the time to read the reasoning behind all the BRAC recommendations you will see why these changes are being made.


Read pages 7-9 and 169-170 of this;
www.defenselink.mil/brac/pdf/VAirForce-o.pdf

and if i heard right the c-5 as big as it can not take off during the day it is to heavy and on a short runway.
has to wait till sometime during the night when it is cooler.and can not take off from pope with a full load.
i heard that from one of the pilots at pope.hence runway need to be longer.

now the c-17 that would work i see them come in every so often they fly right over my house from georgia.
wonder why they cant base the c-17s at pope more personnel and more cargo capacity than its elder sibling.

Quoted: wonder why they cant base the c-17s at pope more personnel and more cargo capacity than its elder sibling.

It's going to take a lot more recourses to operate and maintain small units of aircraft that are spread out at many different locations then it will if you base them at fewer but larger bases.  Consolidating the same type and models of aircraft at fewer bases is what the AF is trying to do with the latest round of BRAC.

There are 54 C-17s based at Charleston AFB, SC that can be a Pope very quickly if they need to be.

Quoted: Quoted: wonder why they cant base the c-17s at pope more personnel and more cargo capacity than its elder sibling. It's going to take a lot more recourses to operate and maintain small units of aircraft that are spread out at many different locations then it will if you base them at fewer but larger bases.  Consolidating the same type and models of aircraft at fewer bases is what the AF is trying to do with the latest round of BRAC. There are 54 C-17s based at Charleston AFB, SC that can be a Pope very quickly if they need to be.

yeah isnt the c-17s only an hour or so flying time from pope i know their base is right down the road just not sure flying time wise.

Quoted: Quoted: wonder why they cant base the c-17s at pope more personnel and more cargo capacity than its elder sibling. There are 54 C-17s based at Charleston AFB, SC that can be a Pope very quickly if they need to be.

I would have to guess that it still would not be quick enough

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: wonder why they cant base the c-17s at pope more personnel and more cargo capacity than its elder sibling. It's going to take a lot more recourses to operate and maintain small units of aircraft that are spread out at many different locations then it will if you base them at fewer but larger bases.  Consolidating the same type and models of aircraft at fewer bases is what the AF is trying to do with the latest round of BRAC. There are 54 C-17s based at Charleston AFB, SC that can be a Pope very quickly if they need to be. yeah isnt the c-17s only an hour or so flying time from pope i know their base is right down the road just not sure flying time wise.

It's 174 miles (151 nautical miles) from Pope AFB to Charleston and a C-17's cruise speed is 450 knots.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: wonder why they cant base the c-17s at pope more personnel and more cargo capacity than its elder sibling. It's going to take a lot more recourses to operate and maintain small units of aircraft that are spread out at many different locations then it will if you base them at fewer but larger bases.  Consolidating the same type and models of aircraft at fewer bases is what the AF is trying to do with the latest round of BRAC. There are 54 C-17s based at Charleston AFB, SC that can be a Pope very quickly if they need to be. yeah isnt the c-17s only an hour or so flying time from pope i know their base is right down the road just not sure flying time wise. It's 174 miles (151 nautical miles) from Pope AFB to Charleston and a C-17's cruise speed is 450 knots.

so about 25 to 30 minutes i think.at full speed

Quoted: This is nuts.

Why?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: This is nuts. Why? Maybe I over reacted.  Are they still going to have planes land there or will everything be through charleston or some FLA on a DZ?  Does this mean that everyone at Simmons is relocating to Pope?

The A-10s are going to Moody AFB, GA.
The active duty C-130Es are going to Little Rock AFB, AR and will be replaced with an active/reserve C-130H unit.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: wonder why they cant base the c-17s at pope more personnel and more cargo capacity than its elder sibling. There are 54 C-17s based at Charleston AFB, SC that can be a Pope very quickly if they need to be. I would have to guess that it still would not be quick enough

It will be more than fast enough.

Seymour Johnson AFB is nearby, has an 11000ft runway and plenty of parking.

There were (are) insufficent C-130s at Pope AFB to deploy anything more than the "DRF-1" (one airborne infantry battalion and attachments) to a location within C-130 range (1150 miles - as a comparison, Denver CO is 1704 miles from Fayetteville).

Under any and all conditions more aircraft are staged into Pope AFB, especially C-17, C-141, and C-5B aircraft, which do have the range required.

The 82nd Airborne Division deploys to Iraq and Afghanistan on chartered commercial aircraft (the most efficent people movers).

The McPeak-era USAF reorganization of Pope AFB into an "Expeditionary Air Wing" led to this.  As did the USAF decision to station the C-17s at Charleston AFB.

Actually there aren't even enough operational C-130s at Pope AFB to support routine training parachute operations at Fort Bragg (when all the assigned airborne units are present).  Even when there was an entire C-130 wing at Pope I used to jump Little Rock, Dyess and Air Guard birds all the time.

Quoted: and if i heard right the c-5 as big as it can not take off during the day it is to heavy and on a short runway. has to wait till sometime during the night when it is cooler.and can not take off from pope with a full load. i heard that from one of the pilots at pope.hence runway need to be longer. now the c-17 that would work i see them come in every so often they fly right over my house from georgia. wonder why they cant base the c-17s at pope more personnel and more cargo capacity than its elder sibling.

Take it from someone who flew C-5s in and out of Pope that there is enough runway to get in and out.  It all depends on the temperature on how much stuff you can take or how far you can go with it.  Then there is always the refueling option - take off with more stuff, find a tanker out over the Atlantic and then press to Europe.  

If you are talking large scale long distance movements of troops and their equipment, you call C-5s and C-17s (C-141s use to be an option but there are very few of those not in the boneyard).  C-130s are great airplanes but don't have the speed or range to effectively move troops and equipment very far.  C-5s and C-17s can pretty much hop the Atlantic while the 130s normally need a stop or two.  

Oh yeah, the C-5 can carry twice the cargo of a C-17.  36 pallets versus 18, versus 6 on a C-130.  You can also fill up the cargo compartment and then throw 70 troops upstairs.

The biggest issue I see with moving the active duty -130s out of Pope is the fact that you no longer have on call assets that are there, right now.  Now you have to get some from another base adding time and cost on to the event.  But, from talking to buddies who fly -130s at Pope, their aircraft are a couple steps from the boneyard.

The A-10s are going to Moody and will be working with the AFSOC rescue unit there.  Good training and experience being gained for both units there.

Oh, and the comment about the locals not giving up land - that is 100% true.  Don't try to dictate what the AF does with its flying operations - they will go elsewhere and take all their money with them.  

Spooky

Rumit from folks that I work with who live in Fayetteville is that the 82d and one SFG are leaving Bragg.  Cheaper to just PCS units to a base that has a security fence than try and retrofit a base that is not Closed and has Civ highways running thru it?

Pope Air Force Base will become an Army airfield that's part of neighboring Fort Bragg

I don't see the big deal. The runway is still gonna be there.

Let the redundant bases close. The money saved will be used to buy new equipment, much-needed spare parts, training ammo and fuel.

Did you know the average age of USAF airplanes is 24 years old?

Put it in context... How many of you guys have a 1980 Chevy as a daily driver?

Quoted: Rumit from folks that I work with who live in Fayetteville is that the 82d and one SFG are leaving Bragg.  Cheaper to just PCS units to a base that has a security fence than try and retrofit a base that is not Closed and has Civ highways running thru it?

Not a chance. They had pretty much fenced it all when I left in April.

PSYWAR 1-0

Your RUMINT is about 1/5ths right.

The 7th SFG (A) is moving to Eglin AFB, FL - based on their SOUTHCOM mission (of course, they've been in Iraq and Afghanistan lately).

The 82nd Airborne Divison is NOT moving.  It is transforming (like the rest of the Army) and will add a 4th Brigade Combat Team.

Politics again.  Man that sucks.

Max

goddamn motherfuckers.

because the assfuck citizens of nearby springlake nc

You really bring validity to the argument.


Rangers do not need their own to make it to point A to point B....

Quoted: PSYWAR 1-0 Your RUMINT is about 1/5ths right. The 7th SFG (A) is moving to Eglin AFB, FL - based on their SOUTHCOM mission (of course, they've been in Iraq and Afghanistan lately). The 82nd Airborne Divison is NOT moving.  It is transforming (like the rest of the Army) and will add a 4th Brigade Combat Team.

I knew about 7th from the BRAC.  Everyone down here is talking about the 82d moving to McDill.  But thats what you get from RUMIT

Are they going to incorporate the remnants of Pope into Bragg itself?    This would make some sense, attach the lower level operations and maintenance to the Bragg structure and get rid of the redundant  upper levels.

As far as reaction and take-off times, the slow pole is the political decision you can be spinning up the troops and planes waiting for the NCA to say yea or nay.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: wonder why they cant base the c-17s at pope more personnel and more cargo capacity than its elder sibling. There are 54 C-17s based at Charleston AFB, SC that can be a Pope very quickly if they need to be. +1 The flight time from CAFB to Pope in a C-17 always seemed to be well under an hour.   I would have to guess that it still would not be quick enough It will be more than fast enough.

.

I'm wondering about Barksdale AFB .  Where can I find this report ?

Quoted: Quoted: and if i heard right the c-5 as big as it can not take off during the day it is to heavy and on a short runway. has to wait till sometime during the night when it is cooler.and can not take off from pope with a full load. i heard that from one of the pilots at pope.hence runway need to be longer. now the c-17 that would work i see them come in every so often they fly right over my house from georgia. wonder why they cant base the c-17s at pope more personnel and more cargo capacity than its elder sibling. Take it from someone who flew C-5s in and out of Pope that there is enough runway to get in and out.  It all depends on the temperature on how much stuff you can take or how far you can go with it.  Then there is always the refueling option - take off with more stuff, find a tanker out over the Atlantic and then press to Europe.   If you are talking large scale long distance movements of troops and their equipment, you call C-5s and C-17s (C-141s use to be an option but there are very few of those not in the boneyard).  C-130s are great airplanes but don't have the speed or range to effectively move troops and equipment very far.  C-5s and C-17s can pretty much hop the Atlantic while the 130s normally need a stop or two.   Oh yeah, the C-5 can carry twice the cargo of a C-17.  36 pallets versus 18, versus 6 on a C-130.  You can also fill up the cargo compartment and then throw 70 troops upstairs. The biggest issue I see with moving the active duty -130s out of Pope is the fact that you no longer have on call assets that are there, right now.  Now you have to get some from another base adding time and cost on to the event.  But, from talking to buddies who fly -130s at Pope, their aircraft are a couple steps from the boneyard. The A-10s are going to Moody and will be working with the AFSOC rescue unit there.  Good training and experience being gained for both units there. Oh, and the comment about the locals not giving up land - that is 100% true.  Don't try to dictate what the AF does with its flying operations - they will go elsewhere and take all their money with them.   Spooky

ty very much spooky for backing me up on the spring lake issue i have heard many times that pope wanted its runway longer. and if i remeber correctly they only needed to close 1 lousy fucking road.

but did the goverment or citzens give a shit no they did not and now ft bragg will gain alot of commands but lose its valuble air wing.

and about the c-130s at pope at present i was reading most of them our grounded do to them being vietnam era birds.


ok here is what is going on at ft bragg/popeafb from todays paper



The Bases:Bringing the U.S. Army Forces Command and the Reserve Command from Georgia means that decisions made at Fort Bragg will affect every conventional and special operations soldier in the army.

Fort Bragg will be home to 3 Major Commands in addition to the 18TH Airborne Corp and the 82ND Airborne Division.Something no other base Boast.


Bragg-Pope decisions

1.Armys forces command and reserve command moving to Fort Bragg from Fort Mcpherson in Alanta.

2.82nd Airborne Division to get 4th brigade combat team.

3.as-yet-undesignated Europe based troops moving to Fort Bragg

4.7th special forces group to leave Fort Bragg for Eglin AFB in Florida.

5.Mobilization Facilities at Fort Eusti ,VA. Fort Jackson ,S.C. and Fort Lee ,VA. consolidated at Fort Bragg.

6. Pope AFB to be taken over by Fort Bragg.

7.43rd Airlift Wing's 25 c-130s going to Little Rock AFB in Arkansas.

8.23rd Fighter Group of 36 a-10s going to Moody AFB in Georgia.

9.16 C-130H planes coming to Pope.

10.43rd medical Group disestablished and replaced by a medical squadron.

Quoted: I'm wondering about Barksdale AFB .  Where can I find this report ?

What about Barksdale?

Was it a seperation of church and state thing?

Quoted: Quoted: I'm wondering about Barksdale AFB .  Where can I find this report ? What about Barksdale?

     Did Barksdale survive this round of base closings ?

PSYWAR 1-0

The 82nd Airborne Division moving to McDill!  That's classic RUMINT.  McDill AFB couldn't host a Division run let alone have space for more than a rifle platoon to manuever!

Quoted: PSYWAR 1-0 The 82nd Airborne Division moving to McDill!  That's classic RUMINT.  McDill AFB couldn't host a Division run let alone have space for more than a rifle platoon to manuever!

A Division of Soldiers would rip that place apart.

Having spent three years at MacDill AFB in the late 80's, I really doubt anybody would move a large ground unit like the 82nd AB there. The base is on a relatively small peninsula, completely surrounded by water on 3 sides and heavily developed comercial/residential right up to the outer fence. There is no excess land for training or exercises, you basically have the flightline, hangers/old USAF buildings, a munitions storage area, the CENTCOM buildings, and a golf course. And trust me, the "Pentagon South" (CENCOM) is not about to give up their golf course. And even if they did, it would still be marginal for any large army usage.

82nd is staying put but popes airwings our gone except the reserve unit that will replace them which is 16 c-130s