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Posted: 5/22/2001 9:55:20 PM EDT
I was recently at an air show that also had army/navy/marine exhibits. Of interest was the M4 carbine with the tv camera site that projects an image to an eyepiece that hangs from the soldiers helmet. This setup will allow one to shoot/see around corners with less exposure. The soldier giving the demonstration also said that each soldier would be in constant radio contact with all the other members of the squad. Each soldier would have a small antenna coming off his LBE. With this setup, they will be able to communicate by voice, send “instant messages”, be able to tell their position and the position of all other soldiers in the area by a built in, linked, GPS system. My problem with the M4 setup is that troops will become overly dependant on these gizmos and basic rifle marksmanship will be neglected. With the communication setup, I see major problems with RF signatures. If you are broadcasting your position to other soldiers in the field, what is to stop the enemy from simply using RF detection equipment to sense when you are nearby. Also, if an isolated soldier is killed and his equipment taken, then the enemy will be able to see where all the other soldiers in the squad/platoon are located. Maybe with spread spectrum technology and encrypted signals some of these issues can be resolved. But what happens when the batterys go dead? I did get to pick up a Ranger vest that is supposed to stop 30-06 ap (level IV). Man is that thing heavy at 30 lbs. They said that a newer one weighing only 15lbs would be out soon. Still, at 15 lbs, that’s almost like carrying TWO extra M-16s! All opinions are welcome. I want to know what you guys think of this “land warrior” stuff and of the “star wars” M4 carbine of the future. It sure is a lot different from when I was in the army. :)
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 10:04:03 PM EDT
I have to agree with all of the comments you have here. Technology is great when used properly (M1 Abrams, GPS, Apache choppers, etc), but this is just a bunch of crap. I think that it will go the way of the last "great concept" - you know, that grenade launcher / rifle system that was as big as a Cadillac and useless as a screen doored submarine.
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 10:17:39 PM EDT
While the Land Warrior system has its kinks and challenges to overcome, we cannot sit back and allow our military arsenal to become antiquated. The M16, M16A1, A2, or M4 are all based off a rifle that was designed almost 50 years ago. The Land Warrior system is an experiment that the US Military is conducting, nothing more, nothing less. Like it or not, you WILL see computers, lasers, rangefinders, RF gear, GPS and more all being standard issue to grunts in the next 20 years. IT WILL HAPPEN. I agree that keeping things simple is best, but don't forget, the iron sights STILL work on those rifles, and last time I checked, I don't think even so much as a trijicon ACOG was allowed to use to qualify with, you have to shoot with iron sights ONLY. Saying that technology will only lead to poor marksmanship is like saying that missile research will lead to a unprofessional artilery. Face it gents, for better or worse, we are about to go from gaslight to lightbulb. SAMHAIN44
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 10:24:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/22/2001 11:40:05 PM EDT
It would have to be greatly improved upon first. I forget how many extra pounds it adds but to put it on top of a weapon,ammo,water, and whatever a ruck would weigh is asking alot. Now lets imagine its 100 degrees with about 90% humidty. Your new and improved gear has your total load well over 100 lbs, needless to say your going to make a very slow target. I would really, really hope that I did'nt encounter some Ak47 toting (insert enemy of your choice here) that has a basic knowledge of tactics. Seriously I don't think its that great of an idea. It may look good on paper but will it work? Like I said it would have to be greatly improved upon. [uzi]
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 7:16:32 AM EDT
One thing that I might add: the army may be pushing this stuff to attract the younger, video game raised, generation of soldier. Even at the airshow, the airforce soldiers guarding the f117 stealth fighter were carrying 20" A2s (not m4 carbines)...yet all the army exhibits would lead one to believe that the land warrior stuff was standard issue in todays "army of one". It could just be a marketing tool.
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 7:19:24 AM EDT
laser guns why dont we use laser guns.... I agree more tech = cleaner kills
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 7:20:39 AM EDT
Special situations may take advantage of this specialized gear. I would not want to tote it around all of the time. Too gimmicky for me.
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 9:14:11 AM EDT
Every soldier is not issued every piece of equipment the Army fields now. What makes you think this would be handled any differently? As it is perfected, it will be issued to troops whose mission-capability might be enhanced by having it. One sincerely doubts that every clerk typist and cook will be wearing the stuff.
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 9:34:17 AM EDT
This is only the beginning. I doubt the equipment being shown off today will stay in it's present form for long. Todays technology needs to be tested and evaluated for it's flaws. Eventually, cameras will shrink in size & weight, heat sensing options will be added. And what was found to work dependently will be kept and enhanced while what proved to be a flop will be disgarded. ** After watching a TLC or History Channel show last year I equiped one of my AR's with a miniture spy camera and sender purchased from a hobbist store. Total weight with batteries was less than 14 oz. It could transmit a B & W video image of whatever I was aiming at up to 100 yds. I don't see why the government system costs so much. Mine was just a toy and did the same thing for less than $400. I eventullay removed it and placed it on my son's remote control car. That was pretty cool too.
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 9:44:22 AM EDT
The US is tring to make our soldiers into BORG! If killed or caught, they'll just disapear!
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 9:49:56 AM EDT
Scene from Aliens: Enter stage left-Drop ship crashes. Newly stranded Marine " Oh that's just GREAT!" "Game over dude GAME OVER!!!" lol Hunter out...
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 10:41:53 AM EDT
The reason the Armed Services have these shows is PR purposes to the taxpayer, to show them what their tax dollars go to. The average taxpayer has no clue about weapons or soldiering, so they don't think about these things like we do. When they see a 20 lb. scope on a rifle that beams a signal to some eyepiece, they think "That is so daggum kewl, man!" I think that this technology has applications in the military but on a limited basis. For now, I think the military puts this stuff on display, not intended to be general issue stuff, but more to catch the public's eye so that we can say "So this is what our tax dollars are going to. This is pretty cool." If this thing ever does make it to field issue, I see it being about the size of an ACOG scope or smaller.
Link Posted: 5/23/2001 11:08:28 AM EDT
he he he----spread spectrum and encryption.... There is a program called dragonfix that can localize rf transmissions within 2 meters...I do not want to know what you are talking about, I will just have a friendly sky-jock dump some HE in your area. and for the remote viewing devices - how about some thermite...look at this !!! And an old guy with a knife will sneak up on the heavily armed and armoured soldier who is tired from hauling all that crap and quietly introduce him to the afterlife of his choice.
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