Posted: 6/13/2012 3:09:23 PM EDT
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I have been listening to the audio book.
I do wonder on some of the things as it seems a lil over the top as I thought most our Mil aircraft were hardened against EM (the use of "Clips" is a bit of a WTF) PS: Don't give the story away as I'm only 1/3 of the way through |
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I enjoyed the book. It's fiction. People take license with certain details to create the proper environment for the story. Yes I do enjoy it as well, and it does give you a lot to think about. Overall it is a good book A good read. Come over to the survival forum for some additional thoughts. IN before someone calls it the survivalist wet dream/ fantasy 
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I enjoyed the book. It's fiction. People take license with certain details to create the proper environment for the story. Yes I do enjoy it as well, and it does give you a lot to think about. Overall it is a good book A good read. Come over to the survival forum for some additional thoughts. IN before someone calls it the survivalist wet dream/ fantasy It would be a Nightmare, that is quite clear |
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Quoted: I have been listening to the audio book. I do wonder on some of the things as it seems a lil over the top as I thought most our Mil aircraft were hardened against EM (the use of "Clips" is a bit of a WTF) PS: Don't give the story away as I'm only 1/3 of the way through when you're done, go to the sf. you will want to start prepping  |
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I have been listening to the audio book. I do wonder on some of the things as it seems a lil over the top as I thought most our Mil aircraft were hardened against EM (the use of "Clips" is a bit of a WTF) PS: Don't give the story away as I'm only 1/3 of the way through when you're done, go to the sf. you will want to start prepping
The sad truth is it shows me how badly I am Not ready, I should have stayed in the country....... |
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Read it a few years ago. Part of my work involved HEMP protection to the site we are building. Trust me, HEMP is a real threat. The book may not be 100% accurate, but it can't be ignored. Google EMP/HEMP and let your mouse take you where it will. Some empirical testing in the United States and the ex-Soviet Union was done many years ago. Lots of electrical and electronic "stuff" was destroyed. |
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Read it a few years ago. Part of my work involved HEMP protection to the site we are building. Trust me, HEMP is a real threat. The book may not be 100% accurate, but it can't be ignored. Google EMP/HEMP and let your mouse take you where it will. Some empirical testing in the United States and the ex-Soviet Union was done many years ago. Lots of electrical and electronic "stuff" was destroyed. Oh I know it is Very real |
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I have been listening to the audio book. I do wonder on some of the things as it seems a lil over the top as I thought most our Mil aircraft were hardened against EM (the use of "Clips" is a bit of a WTF) PS: Don't give the story away as I'm only 1/3 of the way through Damn and I was going to discuss the finer points of it. |
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I have been listening to the audio book. I do wonder on some of the things as it seems a lil over the top as I thought most our Mil aircraft were hardened against EM (the use of "Clips" is a bit of a WTF) PS: Don't give the story away as I'm only 1/3 of the way through Damn and I was going to discuss the finer points of it. Hopefully I'll get time to finish it up tomorrow |
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Some empirical testing in the United States and the ex-Soviet Union was done many years ago. Lots of electrical and electronic "stuff" was destroyed. Yes, those 1970s and 1980s era electronics were "destroyed". The EMP threat is a Walter Mitty pipe dream. Alex Jones style horseshit. I can count the number of nations that have the capability to deliver nukes in a manner where EMP would be an issue outside of visual range of ground zero on one hand, and those nations are either our allies, or have nothing to gain and a lot to lose by EMPing the US. The terrorist EMP attack is a practical impossibility. You need ICBMs to be a credible EMP threat, lots of them. Even if they had the delivery system the nukes would be far more effective as a terrorist weapon as ground burst. Pop one in NYC and kill 2 or 3 million people, pop one in L.E.O and kill.....no one, but MAYBE knock out the local power grid for a few weeks. It would be Huricane Katrina without the weather/water in the way of evacuation. |
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I have been listening to the audio book. I do wonder on some of the things as it seems a lil over the top as I thought most our Mil aircraft were hardened against EM (the use of "Clips" is a bit of a WTF) PS: Don't give the story away as I'm only 1/3 of the way through Damn and I was going to discuss the finer points of it. Hopefully I'll get time to finish it up tomorrow Then you haven't gotten to the part where the Cuban Commandos parachute into the high school football field and shoot up the place ? 
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I have been listening to the audio book. I do wonder on some of the things as it seems a lil over the top as I thought most our Mil aircraft were hardened against EM (the use of "Clips" is a bit of a WTF) PS: Don't give the story away as I'm only 1/3 of the way through All Finished It sure makes you think Damn and I was going to discuss the finer points of it. Hopefully I'll get time to finish it up tomorrow Then you haven't gotten to the part where the Cuban Commandos parachute into the high school football field and shoot up the place then? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Some empirical testing in the United States and the ex-Soviet Union was done many years ago. Lots of electrical and electronic "stuff" was destroyed. Yes, those 1970s and 1980s era electronics were "destroyed". The EMP threat is a Walter Mitty pipe dream. Alex Jones style horseshit. I can count the number of nations that have the capability to deliver nukes in a manner where EMP would be an issue outside of visual range of ground zero on one hand, and those nations are either our allies, or have nothing to gain and a lot to lose by EMPing the US. The terrorist EMP attack is a practical impossibility. You need ICBMs to be a credible EMP threat, lots of them. Even if they had the delivery system the nukes would be far more effective as a terrorist weapon as ground burst. Pop one in NYC and kill 2 or 3 million people, pop one in L.E.O and kill.....no one, but MAYBE knock out the local power grid for a few weeks. It would be Huricane Katrina without the weather/water in the way of evacuation. They weren't '70s and '80s style electronics. The tests occurred in the early '60s, before the widespread us of microelectronics. Actually, the older, vacuum tube electronics used in the '60s when the EMP tests took place were (and remain) far more resistant to EMP damage. A transistor PN junction on the other hand, is very susceptible. Modern microcircuits are literally thousands and thousands of microscopic PN junctions. They require very small amounts of voltage to work. EMP induces monstrous amounts of voltage in the circuits and they either fuse or open. EMP does not require a nuke...although that weapon is regarded as the most effective. You don't need a lot of ICBMs. One will suffice. An EMP attack on the United States would be most effective by employing a single weapon over the central US at an altitude of about 400 miles. The weapon need not be a large two-stage thermonuclear (H-bomb) weapon. In fact, some EMP effects are more pronounced if the weapon is a single stage mid-kiloton yield type that employs a "thin case" design. The detonation of such a weapon in space over the central US would deliver a huge three-part EMP attack over the entire country. This size weapon does not require an ICBM, unless you want to deliver it from your home country. The world proliferates with short range and medium range ballistic missiles with the boost to get it up to 400 miles. All you need is to get your delivery vehicle close enough to launch the rocket. NYC would not be a good EMP target. No atmospheric explosion would be. Get the weapon up into space and let the earth's magnetic field do the rest. Study material: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse |
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Quoted: Read it a few years ago. Part of my work involved HEMP protection to the site we are building. Trust me, HEMP is a real threat. The book may not be 100% accurate, but it can't be ignored. Google EMP/HEMP and let your mouse take you where it will. Some empirical testing in the United States and the ex-Soviet Union was done many years ago. Lots of electrical and electronic "stuff" was destroyed. And lots wasn't. The book is horribly inaccurate with respect to cars. Testing has shown that while some more modern cars will shut down if exposed to EMP, they will restart. Some electronics will be fried (for example, some dashboard lights wouldn't turn off, others wouldn't turn on), but all the cars started and ran. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Read it a few years ago. Part of my work involved HEMP protection to the site we are building. Trust me, HEMP is a real threat. The book may not be 100% accurate, but it can't be ignored. Google EMP/HEMP and let your mouse take you where it will. Some empirical testing in the United States and the ex-Soviet Union was done many years ago. Lots of electrical and electronic "stuff" was destroyed. And lots wasn't. The book is horribly inaccurate with respect to cars. Testing has shown that while some more modern cars will shut down if exposed to EMP, they will restart. Some electronics will be fried (for example, some dashboard lights wouldn't turn off, others wouldn't turn on), but all the cars started and ran. I don't disagree. I would think that in some cases, the car body would act like a Faraday cage. One issue that hasn't been addressed is the damage to long-line power cabling and power stations. Remember, there are three basic components to HEMP: E1/E2/E3. They effect differently. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Read it a few years ago. Part of my work involved HEMP protection to the site we are building. Trust me, HEMP is a real threat. The book may not be 100% accurate, but it can't be ignored. Google EMP/HEMP and let your mouse take you where it will. Some empirical testing in the United States and the ex-Soviet Union was done many years ago. Lots of electrical and electronic "stuff" was destroyed. And lots wasn't. The book is horribly inaccurate with respect to cars. Testing has shown that while some more modern cars will shut down if exposed to EMP, they will restart. Some electronics will be fried (for example, some dashboard lights wouldn't turn off, others wouldn't turn on), but all the cars started and ran. I don't disagree. I would think that in some cases, the car body would act like a Faraday cage. One issue that hasn't been addressed is the damage to long-line power cabling and power stations. Remember, there are three basic components to HEMP: E1/E2/E3. They effect differently. True, and I confess that I don't know enough about that to know what it would take to remedy the situation. While HEMP is a threat, the main reason why I'm not as concerned about it as others is that (for the foreseeable future) pulling it off would require a sophisticated state actor like China or Russia. MAD is still in effect; they would assume that a HEMP detonation over our airspace would be met with a retaliatory nuclear strike. HEMP would do virtually nothing to take out our nuclear triad. If they know that we'll respond with nukes, what's the point of the HEMP in the first place? |
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Read it a few years ago. Part of my work involved HEMP protection to the site we are building. Trust me, HEMP is a real threat. The book may not be 100% accurate, but it can't be ignored. Google EMP/HEMP and let your mouse take you where it will. Some empirical testing in the United States and the ex-Soviet Union was done many years ago. Lots of electrical and electronic "stuff" was destroyed. And lots wasn't. The book is horribly inaccurate with respect to cars. Testing has shown that while some more modern cars will shut down if exposed to EMP, they will restart. Some electronics will be fried (for example, some dashboard lights wouldn't turn off, others wouldn't turn on), but all the cars started and ran. I don't disagree. I would think that in some cases, the car body would act like a Faraday cage. One issue that hasn't been addressed is the damage to long-line power cabling and power stations. Remember, there are three basic components to HEMP: E1/E2/E3. They effect differently. True, and I confess that I don't know enough about that to know what it would take to remedy the situation. While HEMP is a threat, the main reason why I'm not as concerned about it as others is that (for the foreseeable future) pulling it off would require a sophisticated state actor like China or Russia. MAD is still in effect; they would assume that a HEMP detonation over our airspace would be met with a retaliatory nuclear strike. HEMP would do virtually nothing to take out our nuclear triad. If they know that we'll respond with nukes, what's the point of the HEMP in the first place? And that's the problem with all the EMP scenarios. If you have a nuke, you're far better off using it as a destructive device, rather than an EMP generator. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Read it a few years ago. Part of my work involved HEMP protection to the site we are building. Trust me, HEMP is a real threat. The book may not be 100% accurate, but it can't be ignored. Google EMP/HEMP and let your mouse take you where it will. Some empirical testing in the United States and the ex-Soviet Union was done many years ago. Lots of electrical and electronic "stuff" was destroyed. And lots wasn't. The book is horribly inaccurate with respect to cars. Testing has shown that while some more modern cars will shut down if exposed to EMP, they will restart. Some electronics will be fried (for example, some dashboard lights wouldn't turn off, others wouldn't turn on), but all the cars started and ran. I don't disagree. I would think that in some cases, the car body would act like a Faraday cage. One issue that hasn't been addressed is the damage to long-line power cabling and power stations. Remember, there are three basic components to HEMP: E1/E2/E3. They effect differently. True, and I confess that I don't know enough about that to know what it would take to remedy the situation. While HEMP is a threat, the main reason why I'm not as concerned about it as others is that (for the foreseeable future) pulling it off would require a sophisticated state actor like China or Russia. MAD is still in effect; they would assume that a HEMP detonation over our airspace would be met with a retaliatory nuclear strike. HEMP would do virtually nothing to take out our nuclear triad. If they know that we'll respond with nukes, what's the point of the HEMP in the first place? And that's the problem with all the EMP scenarios. If you have a nuke, you're far better off using it as a destructive device, rather than an EMP generator. UNLESS you're a Nork, Iranian, etc. They can get much bang for the nuclear buck with a HEMP. The only problem is that they don't have the means to get it to where it needs to go. |
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Read it a few years ago. Part of my work involved HEMP protection to the site we are building. Trust me, HEMP is a real threat. The book may not be 100% accurate, but it can't be ignored. Google EMP/HEMP and let your mouse take you where it will. Some empirical testing in the United States and the ex-Soviet Union was done many years ago. Lots of electrical and electronic "stuff" was destroyed. And lots wasn't. The book is horribly inaccurate with respect to cars. Testing has shown that while some more modern cars will shut down if exposed to EMP, they will restart. Some electronics will be fried (for example, some dashboard lights wouldn't turn off, others wouldn't turn on), but all the cars started and ran. I don't disagree. I would think that in some cases, the car body would act like a Faraday cage. One issue that hasn't been addressed is the damage to long-line power cabling and power stations. Remember, there are three basic components to HEMP: E1/E2/E3. They effect differently. True, and I confess that I don't know enough about that to know what it would take to remedy the situation. While HEMP is a threat, the main reason why I'm not as concerned about it as others is that (for the foreseeable future) pulling it off would require a sophisticated state actor like China or Russia. MAD is still in effect; they would assume that a HEMP detonation over our airspace would be met with a retaliatory nuclear strike. HEMP would do virtually nothing to take out our nuclear triad. If they know that we'll respond with nukes, what's the point of the HEMP in the first place? And that's the problem with all the EMP scenarios. If you have a nuke, you're far better off using it as a destructive device, rather than an EMP generator. UNLESS you're a Nork, Iranian, etc. They can get much bang for the nuclear buck with a HEMP. The only problem is that they don't have the means to get it to where it needs to go. Even then, they're state actors. They EMP us with 1 or 2 nukes, we retaliate with our own nuclear deterrent. The NorK leader at the time might be suicidal enough to try it, but the Iranians simply aren't. I also see using tracking down the NorK leadership if they flee. We won't take getting nuked lightly. |
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Quoted: I have been listening to the audio book. I do wonder on some of the things as it seems a lil over the top as I thought most our Mil aircraft were hardened against EM (the use of "Clips" is a bit of a WTF) PS: Don't give the story away as I'm only 1/3 of the way through To be honest you'd be better to stop reading there and keep the good memories of the book so far. It gets way to weird once the aliens turn up, though the author had some really good theoretical ideas about the impact of earth microorganisms on them and their microorganisms on us, which a lot of scifi seems to forget about. The sex cult scenes towards the end are just uncomfortably written. It feels like the publishers told him to add them in to spice things up, or he'd been reading some of the weirder websites about breeding human/alien hybrids and was desperate to use the idea. Oh yeah, feckin' clips. Always feckin' clips  |
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I have been listening to the audio book. I do wonder on some of the things as it seems a lil over the top as I thought most our Mil aircraft were hardened against EM (the use of "Clips" is a bit of a WTF) PS: Don't give the story away as I'm only 1/3 of the way through To be honest you'd be better to stop reading there and keep the good memories of the book so far. It gets way to weird once the aliens turn up, though the author had some really good theoretical ideas about the impact of earth microorganisms on them and their microorganisms on us, which a lot of scifi seems to forget about. The sex cult scenes towards the end are just uncomfortably written. It feels like the publishers told him to add them in to spice things up, or he'd been reading some of the weirder websites about breeding human/alien hybrids and was desperate to use the idea. Oh yeah, feckin' clips. Always feckin' clips
You forgot to mention that the aliens had three boobs. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Read it a few years ago. Part of my work involved HEMP protection to the site we are building. Trust me, HEMP is a real threat. The book may not be 100% accurate, but it can't be ignored. Google EMP/HEMP and let your mouse take you where it will. Some empirical testing in the United States and the ex-Soviet Union was done many years ago. Lots of electrical and electronic "stuff" was destroyed. And lots wasn't. The book is horribly inaccurate with respect to cars. Testing has shown that while some more modern cars will shut down if exposed to EMP, they will restart. Some electronics will be fried (for example, some dashboard lights wouldn't turn off, others wouldn't turn on), but all the cars started and ran. I don't disagree. I would think that in some cases, the car body would act like a Faraday cage. One issue that hasn't been addressed is the damage to long-line power cabling and power stations. Remember, there are three basic components to HEMP: E1/E2/E3. They effect differently. True, and I confess that I don't know enough about that to know what it would take to remedy the situation. While HEMP is a threat, the main reason why I'm not as concerned about it as others is that (for the foreseeable future) pulling it off would require a sophisticated state actor like China or Russia. MAD is still in effect; they would assume that a HEMP detonation over our airspace would be met with a retaliatory nuclear strike. HEMP would do virtually nothing to take out our nuclear triad. If they know that we'll respond with nukes, what's the point of the HEMP in the first place? And that's the problem with all the EMP scenarios. If you have a nuke, you're far better off using it as a destructive device, rather than an EMP generator. UNLESS you're a Nork, Iranian, etc. They can get much bang for the nuclear buck with a HEMP. The only problem is that they don't have the means to get it to where it needs to go. Even then, they're state actors. They EMP us with 1 or 2 nukes, we retaliate with our own nuclear deterrent. The NorK leader at the time might be suicidal enough to try it, but the Iranians simply aren't. I also see using tracking down the NorK leadership if they flee. We won't take getting nuked lightly. Some of us are missing the key point of the HEMP thesis: The far less powerful enemy could literally destroy American society. The Great Experiment in Liberty would cease to exist, with just the use of a single, well placed nuclear weapon. Nuke NY and you get lots of prompt dead and lots of residual dead. The total casualties from both would depend on whether or not the weapon was an air burst or ground burst and the yield of the weapon. So...maybe 1,000,000 total for a very effective bomb? One or two optimally sized HEMP weapons detonated at optimum altitudes, at the best latitude and you just might do the damage outlined in the book. Break the lines of communications (And I don't mean "radio/phone, etc) and the country's commerce ceases. Goods and services cease. Production ceases. Think this through...we are totally dependent on our transportation grid, our power grid, our data management grid, and our manufacturing and our farming for our basic survival. Some parts of the country would fare better...but some would be wiped out entirely. Urban areas...? Gone....wastelands. Sure...we could and would retaliate. Our very capable nuclear weapons would utterly destroy those who attacked us (IF would could ID them....if not? I'd nuke ALL of our enemies...its the only way to be sure.) Even if we turned Nork and Iran...or whomever into quarks...does that save the United States from the coming destruction? It does not. The die is cast the instant the weapons go off at about 400nm above the earth. The die-offs would be epic. |
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2 small short range missiles, inside of a cargo container ship, one on each coast. You could realisticly take out about a third of each coast, with a pretty small device.
You would have thousands of people die either directly or indirectly from the EMP. You would have rioting, looting, and mass carnage anywhere that the lights did go out. The cost to replace even that small of a portion of our electrical grid, and all the devices that supply basic human needs to those areas would be in the hundreds of billions of dollars. The financial hit alone would make this a viable plan, by anyone who could get the pieces together. |