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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 7/22/2002 5:04:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2002 5:18:33 PM EST by Valkyrie]
I have an employee that is the type of fellow that just slides by. If he is left to his own devices he takes every opportunity to leave early, come in late etc etc. He does not want to take responsibility if anything goes wrong. He is very distrusting and any time constructive criticism is given he becomes defensive and beligerant. So here's what happens. This fellow goes to work and leaves early without telling anyone. So an emergency situation arises where I need him to be someplace ASAP. I call him on the radio and he sputters and stutters. I ask what the problem is. He says he's not at work and starts making excuses. Okay I'm irritated but I figure I'll address this later. So I tell him I need him to go to emergency. He says he can't he's too far away. Well I say you have 2 hours no big deal. Then says he will not make it in 2 hours??????? WTF I ask why. He says "I have my kid with me." Very bad to have a passenger in work truck. So I drop it and figure I'll get it on Monday morning. Monday comes. I do not want to alienate this guy and I sense his dislike of myself and others. So I figure I just give him a heads up of what will happen if this was found out by the big boss. Of course he goes off yelling, cursing etc. The asst big boss gets involved. He tries the same approach gets noplace. It is someone elses fault he was not wrong etc. We let it go. Big boss hears the melay asks whats up. We say we have it covered but he gets wind via other employees. So now this guy is under the microscope. Now bear in mind he was verbally abusing our cust rep on a job site and had one other outbreak in the office before. So it is now known he was using company vehicle with a passenger, left work without permission or at least a notice, and his bad attitude. So I write it up. big boss is now looking at him very carefully and finds he has been fueling his work vehicle at late hours and in neighborhoods not near his home or work. So its deduced he is either lending out the card or using his vehicle for personal use. Also he was seen using said vehicle on several weekend occasions with passengers. So he is decided to be terminated. Somehow he pleads and lies to big boss and gets a reprieve and has to pick up company vehicle at office and drop it off every day instead. He laughs about it and smirks on the way out. So a week goes by and his attitude sux even worse. So he neglects a job and we have an incident involving the FD and evacuations etc. So I and the claims investigator go to the job. He blew it off basically and it was pretty evident he was nervous and was asking about his job security etc. CONTINUED
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 5:09:34 PM EST
Big problem? Well, if you have been documenting it seems you have NO problem. Shit can this guy. It seems he has done this to himself. Big boss seems like a moron. If you are ever going to fire someone you do it. No turning around.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 5:11:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 5:14:05 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 5:14:30 PM EST
That guy sounds a-lot loke my father in law. Luckily, I work for an at will company, which means it's really easy to can someone for being a worthless POS. I've canned a few guys for similar type abuses. the only advise I can give you is to DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. That way your ass is covered if he tries to sue for wrongful term. , or come after you personally (like you were out to get him.) Good luck Employee situations can be tricky.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 5:19:25 PM EST
ya, I'd say you have a BIG problem alright....It's called management...
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 5:28:11 PM EST
fire the guy- if you dont it will affect the moral of the whole company. where i work the boss is afraid to fire anybody, so if he hires someone whos not worth a shit he just looks the other way until they quit. in the mean time it brings down everybody.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 5:34:55 PM EST
Wait till next time.I'm shure this guy will not dissapoint you.When he does i would confer with the big boss.Walk this guy to the curb.Don't leave him alone.You might want to get the keys changed in truck.He may have a set of his own.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 5:41:00 PM EST
Continued So now even if I had some control over what happened he is gonna get terminated for sure. So he goes to the office somehow lies to big boss again and gets a probation period. So big boss asks what I think and I say he was totally neglegent and given his demeanor of late and the other incidents he should go. He's bad for morale and is a trouble maker amoung managment and employees. So big boss says get me detailed report so we can seperate him in the morning. So little known to us attitude guy calles Pres of the corp and files a race complaint. No specifics but names me and big boss and says we are out to get him. So he gets a reprieve again. Now there are no secrets among these employees and word gets around what happened. So a couple of guys approach me and relate how this employee has been spouting off to other guys that we are all racist and hate blacks and that they need to stick together etc etc. Well I'm not a racist by any stretch and I have many black friends especially at work. So The big boss reassigns him to a black supervisor. I ask why he says to eliminate the friction. I say it looks as if we are all racist now from an objective point of view. He approaches me later and says I am right but now we are stuck and this guy has a free pass and I have to ride the rest of the crew harder in case he makes a complaint about prefferential treatment. Needless to say I'm about ready to quit. This dude smirks at me at work and has a " I am untouchable attitude" now. I want to stay with this corp and we are expanding and the opportunities are there but I figure this has put a big scar on me now.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 5:59:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By Valkyrie: So The big boss reassigns him to a black supervisor. I ask why he says to eliminate the friction. I say it looks as if we are all racist now from an objective point of view. He approaches me later and says I am right but now we are stuck and this guy has a free pass and I have to ride the rest of the crew harder in case he makes a complaint about prefferential treatment. Needless to say I'm about ready to quit.
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My advice is to start looking for a new job. The problem you have is not the black dude who made you look impotent, but the limp-wristed, insecure management of your organization. The effectiveness of your managers isn't going to get any better. In fact, it's going to get worse as time goes on because the precedent for caving into a worthless employee has been established. The only way it can change is for the management team to change. If they bring in new bosses, you are likely to be a goner eventually because you will be identified as part of the old team. Once you let a POS employee skate, only a change in management can turn things around.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 6:05:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2002 6:06:53 PM EST by shooter69]
Well, you paint a lovely picture. You mean you can't play the race card too? Bummer: I guess it only works for some people. [Edited to add: If you want to do something against the guy you are going to have to document it in detail.]
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 6:06:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By TheCommissioner: My advice is to start looking for a new job. The problem you have is not the black dude who made you look impotent, but the limp-wristed, insecure management of your organization. The effectiveness of your managers isn't going to get any better. In fact, it's going to get worse as time goes on because the precedent for caving into a worthless employee has been established. The only way it can change is for the management team to change. If they bring in new bosses, you are likely to be a goner eventually because you will be identified as part of the old team. Once you let a POS employee skate, only a change in management can turn things around.
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Very well said. I concur 100%. Your boss backdoored you. Did he kiss you and buy you dinner first, or at least give you a reach-around?
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 6:36:49 PM EST
It's one thing to have a problem with an employee. It's another to have management in disarray. I'm sensing that you are at a small-to medium size company. Previous advice to document what's happened everything is pretty much what I'd do. Including all the breaks he's been given, the warnings, the second chances, etc. Also, without overtly embarassing your superiors, it may be good to document how you had it covered but then they met with the guys and undercut (use a different word) your authority without a good reason and made the guy impossible to deal with. However, you've indicated that the way your bosses have (mis)managed this had put YOU in a bad spot and it has maybe messed up your chances for the future. This may be a good time to seek whether your HR department, if there is one, has any written guidelines on disciplinary procedures, etc. And maybe it's time to try to get some cohesiveness into the company's dealing with this guys. You may think about letting the other cooks around this pot know that they NEED these guidelines and to stick to them so that straightforward people issues don't turn into walking lawsuits. What have you got in black and white that the guy has violated? It unfortunately may be too late to deal with this guy normally, it might be at the point that the company has to hire an attorney. If so, just remember that it's the company's attorney, not yours. Don't expect him/her to save YOUR bacon. Maybe it's time to think about other companies that might be better to work for. It almost sounds like it's very difficult for you to do your job, without a lot of second-guessing from above. On the other hand, in retrospect, did it help to try to keep the bosses out of it? Maybe looking at WHY you wanted to keep them from getting involved would tell you something about bigger issues you're dealing with outside this situation. Do they have a pattern of injecting themselves into situations they don't need to? And not least of all, maybe it's time to reflect on if you handled this the best way you could (only you can decide this) - did you let emotions (even justified ones) dictate your course, or were you able to put them aside? I say this because I was once in a situation like what you describe, and I was on the guy's back once I'd had enough of him. Once he got on my list, he couldn't do anything right (in my eyes). Finally he got another job. Then guess what? A few years later, I was on the receiving end of some real prick-ass mofo's and [b]I[/b] was the perennial target. Boss 2 would intervene and rewrite Boss 1's appraisal of me. In my own defense, this was after their favorite target had enough and found a better job....[:D]
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 6:39:06 PM EST
I used to have to deal with the exact same thing. It sucked. I couldn't fire anyone unless I had a huge paper trail. You should probably shoot the place up. It'll make you feel better. Balming
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 6:50:19 PM EST
give him an ar and land a helicopter near his house
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 6:58:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By liberty86: ya, I'd say you have a BIG problem alright....It's called management...
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Looks that way...[:D]
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 7:09:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By liberty86: ya, I'd say you have a BIG problem alright....It's called management...
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YUP! Today I gave notice (after 8 years!) because of "management" AB [chainsawkill]
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 9:29:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By albob:
Originally Posted By liberty86: ya, I'd say you have a BIG problem alright....It's called management...
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YUP! Today I gave notice (after 8 years!) because of "management" AB [chainsawkill]
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Sorry to hear this. One word of advice... make sure you have another job lined up. Been there, done that, still waiting.
Link Posted: 7/22/2002 10:31:25 PM EST
Valkyrie - oh forget it - I can't say what I feel. "If we'd known this would happen, we'd have picked our own damned cotton"
Link Posted: 7/23/2002 7:57:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/23/2002 8:03:07 AM EST by slacko]
"equal opportunity" is reverse racism, and supposedly levels the playing field by lowering the standards for anyone not 'white'. THIS makes me respect the people who are held to lower standers less. They are now not respected because they don't have to work as hard as me for the same amount of money because they are 'of color'. AND if anyone says anything it's 'racist'. I've seen this shit too much, and it hurts everyone involved. The 'whities' get pissed because they don't get 'special treatment', and end up having to work harder. The 'people of color' are pissed because the special treatment isn't enough to make up for the social inequities imparted upon them... Vicious Circle whatever happened to getting paid according to the amount of work you do? WTF is wrong with everyone that they can't see this??? Val, you can't win if you're white and they keep playing the race card. Just give up now and take it up the ass, otherwise you'll get fired for being racist.
Link Posted: 7/23/2002 8:50:11 AM EST
Valkyrie - BTDT, have the shirt. This sounds like an outfit I worked for in central PA. You are stuck with the guy b/c he is thier pet (insert racial epithet here) and KNOWS he will never be fired. My suggestion is go to mgmt and give them a choice - you or him - and be prepared to back it up. If it is a family owned company you have no chance of it ever changing.
Link Posted: 7/23/2002 9:01:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By paspecops: My suggestion is go to mgmt and give them a choice - you or him - and be prepared to back it up. If it is a family owned company you have no chance of it ever changing.
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Bzzzt! Bad idea. Be patient. If the guy continues to blow off his duties, his new supervisor will likely notice and be able to do something without any chance of the race card being played. And, even if he gets fired and trys to get some state agency involved in going after your company, it doen't mean the jerk will win. Something similar happened where I work in Boston, and evenb in this liberal haven, where the filer of the complaint is given every imaginable advantage, the claim was seen as completely without merit. Hang in there. It is tough to find work there days.
Link Posted: 7/23/2002 1:29:57 PM EST
BTDT, too. I predict that guy will go far. I've worked for the same kind of management. It's called the "don't make waves" style of management. These managers are just covering their asses so that they can keep their cushy jobs with all of the big salaries & perks. Best advice: Find another job & hope that it works out. Hell, you'll probably wind up working for that clown if you stay there.
Link Posted: 7/23/2002 1:50:22 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/23/2002 2:27:16 PM EST
I would have made sure that the guys' new supervisor new exactly what was up and that if there's any little thing he should fire the guy. Even if you gave them notice, you could always help your friends with the company by giving them this tip. If the asshole continues to act up even after being reassigned it shows that he's the one with the problems, not the organisation. And make damn sure it all gets documented!
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