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Posted: 6/3/2008 2:10:17 PM EST
OK arfcommers....what are the chances Obama will pick Hillary as VP???

And what will that mean to the November election????
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 2:17:45 PM EST
Wouldn't that be a hoot! My wife says this would be better than "Housewives". I'm not real sure what that means ( we have more than one TV ), but she has tried to explain it.

Dirt
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 2:19:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By army_eod:
OK arfcommers....what are the chances Obama will pick Hillary as VP????



better than average
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 2:22:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By TheTracker:

Originally Posted By army_eod:
OK arfcommers....what are the chances Obama will pick Hillary as VP????



better than average


Not a chance unless he's a complete idiot. The Clintons would upstage him and cause problems for him at every turn if he actually won.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 2:27:37 PM EST

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:

Originally Posted By TheTracker:

Originally Posted By army_eod:
OK arfcommers....what are the chances Obama will pick Hillary as VP????



better than average


Not a chance unless he's a complete idiot. The Clinton's would upstage him and cause problems for him at every turn if he actually won.



Do you think his people are telling him ...if we lose more than 20% of Clinton voters
we can't win this ?

I think he would in the General.

He needs the Hispanic vote.

He doesn't have it and won't get it without her.


Link Posted: 6/3/2008 2:58:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/3/2008 3:00:36 PM EST by army_eod]
If he picks her, he is a FOOL.

Rasmussen polls show that many Hill votes will go to McCain if Obama is the candidate.

I am not sure that will really happen. Best thing would be to pick her as, say, SECSTATE so she can prove how experienced she is in world affairs.

If the party told me to pick her I would tell the party to pound sand.

Of course i really don't know how this works. Obama would have nothing but headaches with the Clintons back in office. And he may suffer the Vince Foster Effect.

Does anybody REALLY decide their vote based on a VP???

Oh. did I mention I will vote for McCain?
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 3:10:22 PM EST
I think that the democratic party is too divided and set with their choice. If someone voted for Hilary, I am very certain they are not going to vote for Obama. The Hilary supporters hate Obama too much to vote for him even though Hilary might be on the ticket.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 3:24:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:
Not a chance unless he's a complete idiot. The Clintons would upstage him and cause problems for him at every turn if he actually won.


Agreed. The Dem power players want the Clintons gone. I highly doubt that the power behind Obama feels any different. And he'd have to be a fool to let them back in the White House, they'd have a knife in his back every chance they got.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 3:48:23 PM EST
The Democrat party could put her on the ticket even if he does not want her but with all the people around the Clinton's dropping dead he would be a fool to have her next in line to succeed him.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 3:57:07 PM EST
We have 8 months to get our shit together and wired up tight........
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:08:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By army_eod:
OK arfcommers....what are the chances Obama will pick Hillary as VP???

And what will that mean to the November election????


That's a losing ticket. Too many "firsts". First black president. First woman vice president. That's a walking freak show, politically.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:10:34 PM EST
He'd stand a good chance of committing "suicide" by the time November rolled around.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 4:47:10 PM EST
No chance. This analysis from Don Kates:

BRIEF SUMMARY: To understand what’s going on here we must realize four
things: 1) the last thing Obama wants is Hillary as a running mate; 2) the last thing Hillary wants is to be Obama’s running mate; 3) what Hillary does want is for Obama to lose so she can run in 2012 as the Democrat who would have won in 2008 but the Party stupidly nominated Obama instead; and 4) to help Obama lose, Hillary wants to alienate voters from him by making it APPEAR that she gave her all for party unity but he excluded her from the ticket.

1) Reasons why Obama does not even want Hillary on the ticket much less as VP if he wins

a) Above and beyond anything else, Bill Clinton is an erratic, supremely selfish, self-aggrandizing narcissist who could not resist, and could not be stopped from, getting headlines by running his mouth – even w/ his wife’s presidential nomination at risk. Obama has already been hurt by damaging statements from Revs. Wright and Phleger. God knows what stupid, hurtful thing Bill might say to garner applause and publicity. And if Obama wins, having Hillary as VP would mean at least four years of Bill getting headlines by running his mouth – w/o regard to actual administration policy or truth or discretion.

b) instead of the customary loyal VP, what Obama would get from Hillary as VP is a disloyal subordinate deeply resentful because she feels that the top job should have been hers. God knows what all she could and would do. At the very least be a source of endless leaks harmful to administration policy. In any event, it is predictable that she would be the most troublesome VP since Jefferson got stuck w/ Aaron Burr.

c) Yes, Hillary has many strong supporters. But she also comes w/ huge baggage: a very high unfavorability rating plus a long record of outright lies and shady financial dealings. What if in the middle of the campaign she is discovered in some financial scandal or she asserts some preposterous lie (e.g. that Obama was w/ her when she wasn’t) being shot at in Kosovo). The ideal running mate is a VP candidate who brings support to the ticket not one whose huge negatives must be balanced against, and may outweigh, any support she brings.

No, Obama would never want her actually on the ticket. But what he also does not want is to alienate her supporters by making them think that she would have been willing to serve but he turned her down.

2) Reasons why Hillary would not want to be VP:

As senator from NY she has a substantial amount of power plus an independent position from which she can dissociate herself from, and even denounce, any administration decision she disapproves or which proves unpopular. As VP she not only has no independent power at all, but she is supposed to be loyal to the administration and regardless of the merits of any criticism she makes of its policies, she will be denounced as disloyal. As John Nance Garner summarized his own experience. "The vice presidency isn’t worth a pitcher of warm piss."

3) What does Hillary want?

For Obama to lose the next election so she can run in 2012 as the Democrat who would have won in 2008 but the Party stupidly nominated Obama instead. BUT she cannot afford to have it appear that she sabotaged Obama.

So in a pretense at Romney-like party loyalty she makes a phony offer to run on the ticket (for the sake of the party) – knowing that Obama is almost certainly going to turn her down. Notice that her "offer" has cleverly been phrased in such a manner as to allow her to withdraw in the very unlikely event that Obama said yes. The whole point is to help Obama lose in 2008. Hillary seeks to alienate voters from him by making it appear that she gave her all for party unity but he excluded her from the ticket.
Link Posted: 6/3/2008 11:41:38 PM EST
Milquetoast

Great article.

I posted a "fake" post last nite (which was locked)...lesson learned.

It was about Hill running as an Independent at this point.

Now there would be a way to guarantee that Obama would lose.

Whaddya think?
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 3:37:28 AM EST

Originally Posted By army_eod:
Milquetoast

Great article.

I posted a "fake" post last nite (which was locked)...lesson learned.

It was about Hill running as an Independent at this point.

Now there would be a way to guarantee that Obama would lose.

Whaddya think?


Likewise, no chance. If she were perceived as the reason Obama lost, she would be an outcast. Her goal is to get Obama to lose, while appearing to be supporting him.
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 5:17:00 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 5:21:48 AM EST
Good post milquetoast....

The Bill Clinton influence should keep Obama from making that mistake
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 5:24:56 AM EST
Obama - Richardson
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 2:47:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By army_eod:
OK arfcommers....what are the chances Obama will pick Hillary as VP???

And what will that mean to the November election????


ZERO to NONE! Bill and her wont let Hussein Yomama shine on his own and steal his thunder. Michelle Yomama wont let her first time being proud of america be ruined by Billery

223SAINT
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 3:38:40 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/4/2008 5:15:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:

Originally Posted By osprey21:
Obama - Richardson


The ultimate pandering ticket.


Talk about "identity" politics.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 12:03:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By fxntime:
He'd stand a good chance of committing "suicide" by the time November rolled around.



Lets do that, the suicide thing.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 6:19:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Milquetoast:
No chance. This analysis from Don Kates:

BRIEF SUMMARY: To understand what’s going on here we must realize four
things: 1) the last thing Obama wants is Hillary as a running mate; 2) the last thing Hillary wants is to be Obama’s running mate; 3) what Hillary does want is for Obama to lose so she can run in 2012 as the Democrat who would have won in 2008 but the Party stupidly nominated Obama instead; and 4) to help Obama lose, Hillary wants to alienate voters from him by making it APPEAR that she gave her all for party unity but he excluded her from the ticket.

1) Reasons why Obama does not even want Hillary on the ticket much less as VP if he wins

a) Above and beyond anything else, Bill Clinton is an erratic, supremely selfish, self-aggrandizing narcissist who could not resist, and could not be stopped from, getting headlines by running his mouth – even w/ his wife’s presidential nomination at risk. Obama has already been hurt by damaging statements from Revs. Wright and Phleger. God knows what stupid, hurtful thing Bill might say to garner applause and publicity. And if Obama wins, having Hillary as VP would mean at least four years of Bill getting headlines by running his mouth – w/o regard to actual administration policy or truth or discretion.

b) instead of the customary loyal VP, what Obama would get from Hillary as VP is a disloyal subordinate deeply resentful because she feels that the top job should have been hers. God knows what all she could and would do. At the very least be a source of endless leaks harmful to administration policy. In any event, it is predictable that she would be the most troublesome VP since Jefferson got stuck w/ Aaron Burr.

c) Yes, Hillary has many strong supporters. But she also comes w/ huge baggage: a very high unfavorability rating plus a long record of outright lies and shady financial dealings. What if in the middle of the campaign she is discovered in some financial scandal or she asserts some preposterous lie (e.g. that Obama was w/ her when she wasn’t) being shot at in Kosovo). The ideal running mate is a VP candidate who brings support to the ticket not one whose huge negatives must be balanced against, and may outweigh, any support she brings.

No, Obama would never want her actually on the ticket. But what he also does not want is to alienate her supporters by making them think that she would have been willing to serve but he turned her down.

2) Reasons why Hillary would not want to be VP:

As senator from NY she has a substantial amount of power plus an independent position from which she can dissociate herself from, and even denounce, any administration decision she disapproves or which proves unpopular. As VP she not only has no independent power at all, but she is supposed to be loyal to the administration and regardless of the merits of any criticism she makes of its policies, she will be denounced as disloyal. As John Nance Garner summarized his own experience. "The vice presidency isn’t worth a pitcher of warm piss."

3) What does Hillary want?

For Obama to lose the next election so she can run in 2012 as the Democrat who would have won in 2008 but the Party stupidly nominated Obama instead. BUT she cannot afford to have it appear that she sabotaged Obama.

So in a pretense at Romney-like party loyalty she makes a phony offer to run on the ticket (for the sake of the party) – knowing that Obama is almost certainly going to turn her down. Notice that her "offer" has cleverly been phrased in such a manner as to allow her to withdraw in the very unlikely event that Obama said yes. The whole point is to help Obama lose in 2008. Hillary seeks to alienate voters from him by making it appear that she gave her all for party unity but he excluded her from the ticket.


Excellent summation, hitting the nail squarly on the head. Both Bill and Hillary are supremely narcistic and deserve each other and this summation clearly shows this.

I will add another prediction. Obama really believes what he says too a fault. He is right out of a great society/carter time warp. I predict that he will go down in flames just like McGovern in 1968. I predict that the democrats will expand their leads in both houses by running conservative sounding candidates who will not deliver and that they will loose ground big time, possibly even the senate in 2010. McCain will be elected and he will try to play democrat for a while with folks like us and and the news media holding his feet to the fire.
Link Posted: 6/5/2008 1:18:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lexington:

Originally Posted By HiramRanger:

Originally Posted By osprey21:
Obama - Richardson


The ultimate pandering ticket.


Talk about "identity" politics.


scary thing is, i can totally see this happening.
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