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Posted: 5/4/2001 10:59:33 AM EDT
I have recently started a weight training program. I've lifted in the past, but not recently enough to remember the best formula or approach. I trainer at the gym I go to told me what I needed to do in order to achieve the results I'm looking for. I want to shed a few pounds, and devote equal time to bulk building of muscle and toning what's already there. Mostly toning though. The appraoch I was told is this. When hitting each exercise, I want to only do one 12 rep set per exercise. The weight for each set should be enough that by the time I hit number 12 in the set, I should be maxing out my ability to lift that weight. Question number 1 is this....... 1 set seems to be too little time devoted to a muscle group. Hell, 12 good reps only takes a couple of minutes. My guess is that at least a couple of sets per muscle group would provide better and quicker results. Question number 2....... Some exercises overlap in the muscle groups used. Would this overlap help to compinsate for the fact that the program that was recommended only calls for a single set? Question number 3........ Without going nuts, what suppliments are the most effective BESIDES Creatin? An amino group? Protien powders, and what type? Anything else? I know lots of water is good, and that's obviously one of the easy parts. What else do you experienced lifters recommend for the goals I have for my program? As usual, your insights are most appreciated.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 11:27:39 AM EDT
I have learned over the years that in Bodybuilding, and pretty much everything else in life, only you know what works for you. That said, I would do a couple of warm up set before going for that all bust out one, just to keep the joints safe.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 11:35:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ariel: I have learned over the years that in Bodybuilding, and pretty much everything else in life, only you know what works for you. That said, I would do a couple of warm up set before going for that all bust out one, just to keep the joints safe.
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With all due respect, there's a reason I don't perform my own dental work, as is a similar reason why I seek advice on this topic. I'm just not educated enough to make accurate decisions regarding weight lifting. I have a hunch as to what I think would work, but I'm not sure if it's wise to go on an uninformed hunch. Any tips to the questions above?
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 11:47:23 AM EDT
hey m4 true- every body is slightly differnt. for me i like to have a protein shake before and a protein bar after with alot of water. the creatine stuff can devisatate your kidneys will stones that goes on for years. build your body naturally as you can. some guys break the routine to groups or areas. there is some evidence showing that one rep is enough to keep fit. what are your goals? if it is to be mr. buff - check into the eas program. $$ but supposed to be the bomb for quick results. drastic eating habit change though! one friend from oz uses a simpler method of working out. work the muscle until it fails!! i'd recommend hiring a good trainer who looks like you want to look to get you started. also there are some good books that will show you the targeted zones for max effect. definately warm up and cool down though and try to do some strectches in as well - yoga works for me very well. if you can do 90 mins - 3 times a week is good. a mini self-boot camp is good. cardio to keep you trim and weights to pump up. i'm way off my game right now but getting back into the saddle shortly. feel free to ask any q's. steve
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 11:48:48 AM EDT
The best results I have ever had in weight training have come from basic movement, benchpress, squats, deadlifts, chins, etc. Forget the fancy isolation moves, stick to the compound lifts. The workouts will be tough, but you will like the results. Signals
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 11:54:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2001 2:32:50 PM EDT by EdAvilaSr]
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 12:01:24 PM EDT
M4, sounds like a sure trip to burnout. Start with your cardiovascular stationary bike or stairmaster or running machine, at least 10 minutes. Now you're warmed up for lifting. Do at least 3 sets of 10 reps. If you can do more than 12 reps, the weight's too light. Less than 8, too heavy. Remember, you're trying to tone up first and get a program going, save the "supersets" for the future. Split your exercises up between legs and arms to keep it interesting. Forget supplements! I'm a chemist; if you could see how these are made, you would never put them in your body. Red meat is the body's #1 source of protein. Eat a balanced diet heavy on fruits and vegetables with excess amounts of H2O. Drink even when you don't want to. If you get thirsty, you've not been drinking enough. The water will aid in losing weight to speed fat breakdown. Don't skip meals, reduce portions. Avoid alcohol. Workout at least 2, preferably 3, or more times each week for at least one hour total. Remember to have fun! You want to do this until you die...
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 12:03:43 PM EDT
I'm in the same boat as you are. Unfortunately you can't really trim down and build muscle at the same time. To gain muscle you have to eat more calories than you burn and put on weight. But that is not saying you can't lose some of the fat while you are at it. If you adjust your diet and take out the high fat foods, you body will be able to use more of what you eat for building muscle. I've been going hard core in my latest attempt, which started 2 weeks ago. I'm talking excercise change and diet change. So far I don't seem to be gaining the muscle I was before but I did notice that my pants fit better today. I train my muscles hard, this does two things, it provides a work out where I increase my metabolism and lose weight and it increases the size of my muscles. Typically I do a muscle pair, once a week. Doing 3 to 4 exercises with between 6 to 15 reps. So one day a week I will train biceps/triceps and do a different group the next day. The biggest thing that I think has helped me is running. I've worked out off and on for years, but I've never seemed able to lose weight. Since I started running I feel better and it looks like some of the fat is disappearing. Run every day, the longer the better. But the more you run the less your muscles will grow. But someone who is trim will always look better than someone who is bigger but not trim. The supplements are a joke. Get a good multi-vitamin and then see if you can find a stress vitamin. The stress vitamin should be a heavy dose of the B vitamins, which are needed who are very active. At least according to Muscle and Fitness. You get your nutrients from eating real food. Add lots of fresh fruit and vegetables to your diet. A real good source of protien is milk. I went from not driking milk to drinking milk about 6 times a day, simply for the protien. The lower the fat in the milk the better for you, if you drink that much. If you can find a protien supplement that you like, try to figure that in as an addition to what you are eating. A general rule is 1 gram of protien per day, per pound of body weight. Initially when I started I was gaining weight and fast, 1/2 to 1 pound a day. I added more running, cut down on the amount of food per setting but still eat like 6 times a day, and cut out any fat I could. My weight has now come down slightly and has stayed steady for the last couple days.
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 1:44:30 PM EDT
Not to worry Swire, you can build muscle and lose fat simultaneously. You exercise and convert stored fat to energy. The exercise stimulates muscle growth. Also, most vitamins end up in the toilet as they don't metabolize in the diet the way they do when suspended in foods. Two very small critiques to a great post!
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 1:48:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2001 1:47:56 PM EDT by MickUZI]
Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr: Some body builders like Dorian Yates former Mr Olympia 5 times believes that anything over 1 set(extremely heavy weights) per body part is a waste of time.He has the musculature and the titles to prove it,but it doesn't work like that for most of us mortals who do not use anabolic steroids and are afraid to injure ourselves. If you want to loose fat and gain/maitain muscle tone but not really grow(my purpose in weight training too)you might benefit from doing circuit training,three days a week.However instead of 1 circuit try to do 2-3.(your question #1) "Overlaping" muscle groups in a training routine work if you do them the same day(question #2) The supplements to use are such a controversial topic I won't get into it too much.Some will tell you,just eat 5-6 meals spaced throughout the day(300-400cal each)and take a good multivatamin complex.If you opt for supplements I recommend a thermogenic compound like Xenadrine for loosing fat/speeding up your metabolism,creatine for increased power/intracellular voluminizing,and a good protein powder to use as some of your meals(probably 2-3 of the 5-6 you should be having). Check one routine I saw in Muscle & Fitness 2-3 months ago called "Full Body Blast"(do a search on their site[url]www.muscleandfitness.com[/url] If not available I will email it to you. Also do anaerobic exercises 2-3 days a week,preferably in the AM on an empty stomach,and on the days you do not lift.Do not eat until 1 hr after finishing your aerobics. If need more details email me.[:)] edited to add another one I like[url]www.musclemedia.com[/url]Must read:Mechanisms of muscle Growth on this site
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Damn Ed. I didn't know you were so into pressin. Any other good tips?? I free/wgt for 1 1/2 HR a day (Presses, Curls, Squats, lifts), and would appreciate any first hand tips. McUZI (Edited because I can)
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 2:23:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2001 2:55:48 PM EDT by EdAvilaSr]
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 2:46:42 PM EDT
M4 I am not a bodybuilding GURU, but I did work out for 10 years before an inguinal hernia sidelined me.( Injury suffered firefighting not working out ) I still workout but do not bench press or squat huge amounts anymore. The following routine is basic enough to help you gain some muscle. Do cardio as needed, if I leave the cardio for last I am tired and won't do it. If I do it first It drains my energy from the weights. So I do them at different times of the day. This is a basic push and pull old fashioned routine for BEGINNERS Monday Chest Shoulders and triceps Tuesday Back, traps and biceps Wednesday Legs Thursday Chest Shoulders and triceps Friday Back, traps and biceps Weekends off Use basic exercises. For chest staert with incline Bench press followed by regular bench press. Triceps do pressdowns and dips Back do pullups and benover rowing Traps do upright rows Biceps do either barbell or dumbell curl followed by hammer curls Legs Squats and good mornings or leg curls if you have a bad back for calfs do single leg calf raises with a Dumbell This is to be a simple workout so keep it KISS. Do a warm couple of light warm up sets everytime you start a new muscle group and try to keep the reps at around 10 to 12. Do not train more than and hour. Keep chit chat to a minimun. Do use a spotter Dont get into a pissing contest to see who can lift more Do not grunt like a pregnat mare And last but not least leave the neon lycras and the knee high sock at home ( just sick humor ) Wash your hands after the gym, lots of nasty germs on those barbells. There are no miracles suplements. Food is the best there is. Leave the JUICEHEADZ alone they are in another planet. Stick to it and in less than 3 months you should see substantial results. Only YOU know if you are cheating on a rep and How much. Keep a Journal of your poundages and food intake. Some of US keep a jopurnal of our firearms and which loads it likes, your body is just the same. Forgive any spelling mistakes, and any rants were meant in a good hearted manner. I wish you luck and have no doubt that if you wanted you will get it. Ariel
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 4:00:09 PM EDT
M4: Mike Mentzer and the rest of his small following of H.I.T. squad believe in the one all-out set to complete muscular failure for a muscle group is all you need for muscle hypertrophy. This is not only until you can no longer complete another positive rep, but you keep going with the assistance of a partner doing negatives and partial reps. Once you complety work the muscle like this any more sets are not only not necessory but counter-productive because they they create inroads into your recovery, thus leading you to a state of overtraining. Now, I must tell you that I do not believe in this this type of training. Even Yates doesn't train like this. He will do two or three progressivly heaver weights until he reaches his max weight, then train to failure; however, while he is often thought of as a one-set-to-failure trainee, he will do three or four total excerises per muscle group - not one. So even he ends up doing 5-8 total sets per bodypart. There is a lot of good info on the net about training, but there is also a lot of crap. Knowledge is power so you will need to gather as much as you can and try to put it together. So to answer you question, Q1: yes multiple sets per excerise is much better than one for strength and hypertrophy. Also two or three sets per excersize per bodypart are also best. Q2: You do want to do multiple excerises per muscle group as they will work the muscle differently. Q3: Eat good and you shouldn't need much except for a good multivit and a protein drink if you don't expect to eat for a while between meals. Also, don't forget to give your self plenty of rest in the form of sleep, between workouts, and between bodyparts. The only time I train on consecutive days is when I'm dieting, other than that, I have at least one day between workouts and split my workouts centered around the squat, bench, or deadlift. Everything else you do can be grouped with one of those lifts (shoulders and triceps with chest, abs and calves with legs, and upper back, traps, and biceps with the rest of your back). WOW, what a long post!
Link Posted: 5/4/2001 6:48:09 PM EDT
M4 A few of the guys I know like to take a protien supplement made by Prolab. It has whey protien in it. Don't take the recommended dosage because it usually to much to take at one time. I take One scoop three times a day. It comes with a scooper inside the container. Watch out for the creatine supplements. It has caused some people to suffer some serious health problems. As far as weight training, I prefer to work each bodypart twice a week. I workout six days a week. I have three seperate routine days that are done twice a week. I do six sets of ten repetitions. Monday; standing bicep curls, standing tricep press, standing close grip military press, preacher curls on curl bench, wrist curls reverse wrist curls, and standing tricep cable pulldowns. Tuesday; Bench press, standing upright cable rows, front close grip cable pulldowns while sitting palms facing toward you pulling down to the chest, Back wide grip cable pulldowns while sitting palms facing forward pulling down cable to the back of the neck, Wednesday; incline leg press on a hip sled machine lying on ones back at a 45 degree angle. then calf raises using this same apparatus. All of theses days should also include situps and leg raises. Do not worry about the amount of weith that you are lifting. The main thing is that you are working out each muscle while not injuring it. You need to be consistent and not miss to many workouts. The best gains that last the longest come slowly over a period of time. You need to develop a routine that becomes something that is part of your lifesyle. Easy to say and very hard to do yeah? So do'nt make things to hard for yourself. Start off slow and work your way up gradually. The great key is consistency and dedication. I have a power rack, a 315 lb. olypic weight set. The power rack has a cable pulley system with adjustable weights. I also have a hipsled that takes olympic free weights. I have a curl bench and a curl bar. I am just showing you one way you can set up your program and equipment. I think my routine will give you all around power and endurance afte one year if you are faithful to it the whole time. This is just my opinion. It works for me. I am not an expert. I used to train in Kempo karate and amatuer boxing. Now I just weight train. It helps me a lot. Time is always a factor. I weight train at home which is more convenient. Good luck to you sir!
Link Posted: 5/5/2001 8:10:24 AM EDT
oh yeah, I forget to say that monday tuesday wednesday, is repeated on thursday friday sunday. The routines I mean. I hope that makes sense.
Link Posted: 5/5/2001 6:06:12 PM EDT
Here is what I suggest. If you don't mind taking advice about lifting from a girl that is [:D]
Originally Posted By M4: I want to shed a few pounds, and devote equal time to bulk building of muscle and toning what's already there. Mostly toning though.
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If you want to look tone you have to lose fat. Lifting will help you lose fat if you can get a cardio workout from it at the same time (which is possible). You might try lifting hard some days and running on rest days. Strengthening the muscle will help in toneing too. And you have already gotten a lot of good advice and routines about this. A good program to look at is Body for Life. And Muscle and Fitness and Muscle Media are pretty good resources too. You can also get suplement reviews that tell you what works best and what they each do. I am the only girl I know who want's to bulk up so thankfully I can lift with my husband who teaches me most of what I know. I have been following routines similar to those in the Body for Life program and I have had pretty big gains. Studies have shown that doing one hard set can do as much good as doing a lot of sets so what ever works for you. If you don't feel you are making any gains though you should probaly try something else. I hope that I haven't repeated others comments too much or just told you what you already know. Good Luck
Link Posted: 5/5/2001 6:32:31 PM EDT
Everything that I have learned to tone your body is simple. Muscle is built by shocking the system, high weight-low reps. For tone though it is the opposite, low weight (but enough to feel it) high reps. This will vary according to who you are. As for supplements, a good diet and cardio training for weight loss and toning. I feel that all of the pills/shakes/bars/powders are not worth the money. Just my thoughts.
Link Posted: 5/5/2001 7:50:24 PM EDT
I got a bench workout chart from my old weight training coach a few months ago. When I started working out in high school I weighed 130 pounds and was benching 115. By the end of the year I was 135 pounds and benching 285. I exceled in the other lifting area alot too but the bench workout was amazing for me. Not that you are only looking to get your bench press up. It has 7 workouts per max set and they increase the weight and lower the reps per workout to the point that you get to the last workout and your are ready to go up to the next workout weight. I just started lifting again and it is still working well for me.
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