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11/22/2017 10:05:29 PM
Posted: 8/27/2004 4:56:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 4:58:01 PM EST by Dragracer_Art]
I just spent $50 on Doom 3.

It's a VERY cool game.

Only problem is, I think I need a better video card...(Without spending a fortune)

Right now I have a fairly new Dell (approx 1yr old) with a 2.4ghx P4, 533mhz fsb, 60 gig hd, 512mb ram at 333 mhz, 48x cd-rom, and...

64MB Nvidia GeForce MX Graphics card...

The game box says "minimum 64MB graphics card"

The game plays fine, but seems "blocky" and isn't smooth on a busy screen, or lots of activity...

Would I benefit much from a 128MB video card ???

If so, would this one work for $100 ??? accessories.us.dell.com/sna/ProductDetail.aspx?TabPage=techspecs&sku=A0155948&c=us&l=en&cs=19&page=external

Is it compatible to what I have ???
How complicated is it to install and run ???


Thanks in advance !

Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:05:32 PM EST
I have a Nvidia GE force 5600FX card, it is a 256mb card...and it smokes.

I do alot of HIGH END, graphics intensive gaming with zero problems.
I recomend this card....
There are other good cards out there too, that Im sure others will recomend.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:10:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 5:12:04 PM EST by ARDunstan]
DragonRacer, in a word, nope.
That video card is crap and its not worth $100.

Get this Card

You'll be glad you did when you realize you don't get headaches after playing Doom3
at 12 frames per second anymore.

ETA: Asus makes one of the best video cards out there.

Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:12:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 5:13:06 PM EST by Who_Me]
The NV FX5200 isn't much of an improvement over a NV MX.....If any.

How much you willing to spend?
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:15:24 PM EST
Its not just the megabytes that matter although they are important , a faster chipset is good too. I have that card and it runs doom alright. Check out newegg.com or pricewatch and you will get a much better price on that card. If I were you tho I would go for a better chipset, maybe a radeon 9600 or Ti GeForce
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:19:36 PM EST
Get a radeon 9800 and you won't have to worry about getting a new one for a while. I have a 9600 mobile in my laptop and it is doing pretty well.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:24:52 PM EST
I would buy an ATI 9800 Pro for about $190.00. Better than other cards in it's price range.

The one thing you might want to make sure of though is that the Geforce card you have in there is a card and not a chipset on the mobo because the Geforce MX is a very common video chip placed on mobos. It wont be that big of a deal as long as you have a AGP slot.

Any of the cards mentioned is easy to install. If you can adjust your valve springs I have confidence you will have no problems with the video card installation.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:34:49 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 5:43:56 PM EST by Nexus6]
Get an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro.

www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-268R&depa=0

It'll hand any Nvidia FX based card it's ass. It is, in fact, the cat's pajamas. I can run Doom3 with everything on high at 1152x864. You're not going to beat it for $150.

Edited to add, I have a P4 2.4GHz, but it's running at 3.3GHz, and I have 1GB of RAM, so that's also helping out. But you should be able to do 800x600 or 1024x768 no problem with a 9800 Pro and a 2.4P4.

Edited to add further:

P4 2.4GHz benchmarks for Doom3

Nvidia FX5700 Ultra Benchmark P4 2.4 in Doom3 - 35.9 FPS

ATI Radeon 9800 Pro Benchmark P4 2.4 in Doom3 - 49.8 FPS

15 extra FPS with a 9800 Pro over an FX 5700 Ultra
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:38:08 PM EST
Mine runs ok in Med detail, AMD 2200 512ram and Geforce 5200 128mb
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:42:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 5:43:15 PM EST by Cerebus]
Does anyone make a low profile AGP card that's compatible with Doom3? I bought the game and dropped $270 (actually work did) on a 256MB Radeon 9800 Pro, then opened up my HP D530 to discover it only takes low profile cards.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:47:11 PM EST
Cerebus, your work got hosed paying that much for a radeon 9800, you could pick one up for 100 less..
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:52:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By Cerebus:
Does anyone make a low profile AGP card that's compatible with Doom3? I bought the game and dropped $270 (actually work did) on a 256MB Radeon 9800 Pro, then opened up my HP D530 to discover it only takes low profile cards.



that sucks. I can't think of any of the new cards off the top of head that are low profile. The best one I could find was a ATI 9600SE

link
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:55:57 PM EST
+1 on the Radeon 9800 Pro. Smoking video card


Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
Cerebus, your work got hosed paying that much for a radeon 9800, you could pick one up for 100 less..

Uh, dude, a 256MB 9800 pro usually runs around $300. I would be jumping for joy if I can find one for under $300
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:56:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 5:57:20 PM EST by BigD]

Originally Posted By Nexus6:
Get an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro.

www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-102-268R&depa=0

It'll hand any Nvidia FX based card it's ass.



Bullshit. It doesn't compare AT ALL to a FX6800GT or Ultra.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 5:57:47 PM EST

Originally Posted By Ghost-Shooter:
+1 on the Radeon 9800 Pro. Smoking video card


Originally Posted By sixgunsblazing:
Cerebus, your work got hosed paying that much for a radeon 9800, you could pick one up for 100 less..

Uh, dude, a 256MB 9800 pro usually runs around $300. I would be jumping for joy if I can find one for under $300



Dell has 'em for $400...

accessories.us.dell.com/sna/ProductDetail.aspx?TabPage=techspecs&sku=A0142419&c=us&l=en&cs=19&page=external


Looks like the newegg cards are "refurbished" units...
Not sure I'm comfortable with that...

What say you's ???
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:01:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By Atencio:

Originally Posted By Cerebus:
Does anyone make a low profile AGP card that's compatible with Doom3? I bought the game and dropped $270 (actually work did) on a 256MB Radeon 9800 Pro, then opened up my HP D530 to discover it only takes low profile cards.



that sucks. I can't think of any of the new cards off the top of head that are low profile. The best one I could find was a ATI 9600SE

link



Actually I (again work) bought an ATI 9600SE too because my sales rep told me it was low profile ...but the VGA isn't detachable like in your pic. I think that's the old card.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:04:45 PM EST
One thing that has been left out is the speed of your AGP slot on your board.
Depending on what the north bridge chipset is of your main board (Intel 850, 845, Via etc.)
You may have a board that only runs at 4x AGP and not 8x AGP. If you go with a newer card that is designed to run at 8x you will be running the card at half its bandwith so a faster 4x card like a Ti4600 or 4800 may be the better choice as it is designed to run at the slower AGP speed. The machine I'm on right now is an Intel 850 chipset with 4x AGP running a TI-4600 4x and I can run Doom 3 just fine.

One other thing to note it the newer cards (Fx 5000 line and ATI 9000 line do have DirectX 9.0 support which runs much better with Doom 3 as long as it is a mid to high end card. So its a trade off between running a newer 8x card at 4x with 9.0 support or running a older 4x card with 8.0 support at full bandwith.

Just food for thought.

The newer card will cost more but, will also move to a newer system later on.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:05:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By BigD:

Originally Posted By Nexus6:
Get an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro.

It'll hand any Nvidia FX based card it's ass.



Bullshit. It doesn't compare AT ALL to a FX6800GT or Ultra.



What, in gods name, is an FX 6800 GT? Show me one.

Seriously.

Cause Nvidia KILLED the FX line when the GeForce 6 series (the 6 in 6800) came out. It's just a 6800, 6800GT, 6800Ultra, and now the 6600 and 6600GT.

And anyway, like I said, the 9800 Pro R350/R360 core kills the Nvidia FX based chips. I didn't say a damn thing about the 6800 series, which has decidely turned the tables.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:05:25 PM EST
doom 3 is rough on graphics. just need a more current card of at least 128mb geforcefx 5700 ultra or radeon 9800.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:07:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nexus6:

Originally Posted By BigD:

Originally Posted By Nexus6:
Get an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro.

It'll hand any Nvidia FX based card it's ass.



Bullshit. It doesn't compare AT ALL to a FX6800GT or Ultra.



What, in gods name, is an FX 6800 GT? Show me one.

Seriously.

Cause Nvidia KILLED the FX line when the GeForce 6 series (the 6 in 6800) came out. It's just a 6800, 6800GT, 6800Ultra, and now the 6600 and 6600GT.

And anyway, like I said, the 9800 Pro R350/R360 core kills the Nvidia FX based chips. I didn't say a damn thing about the 6800 series, which has decidely turned the tables.



Just found it here:

www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-170-057&depa=1

$422 !!!

YIKES !
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:10:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 6:12:05 PM EST by Nexus6]

Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:

Just found it here:

www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-170-057&depa=1

$422 !!!

YIKES !



No, that's the new 6000 series card... no FX in the title. FX cards are the old 5000 series chips. Anyway, yeah, you're not looking for one of those $400 bastards.

This 9800 Pro is OEM, but not refurb'd, and only $160. You can also get an extended warranty from newegg, if that kind of thing appeals to you.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:17:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By CMA:
You may have a board that only runs at 4x AGP and not 8x AGP. If you go with a newer card that is designed to run at 8x you will be running the card at half its bandwith so a faster 4x card like a Ti4600 or 4800 may be the better choice as it is designed to run at the slower AGP speed.



Not true. A 9800 Pro will lose, at best, 5% performance running at 4x AGP compaired to 8x. I know, I had an i845 for a while with my 9800 Pro (an 8x card that could only run at 4x in the i845 board), and upgraded to an i875, and saw little difference in performance.

A 9800 Pro will always be faster than a Ti4600/4800. The Ti4600/4800 is a complete generation behind the 9800 Pro, which is now a generation behind present.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:19:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nexus6:

Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:

Just found it here:

www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-170-057&depa=1

$422 !!!

YIKES !



No, that's the new 6000 series card... no FX in the title. FX cards are the old 5000 series chips. Anyway, yeah, you're not looking for one of those $400 bastards.

This 9800 Pro is OEM, but not refurb'd, and only $160. You can also get an extended warranty from newegg, if that kind of thing appeals to you.



I can swallow a $160 pill, but $400 is a little extreme for what I'm doing.
I originally figured on a $100 bill, but I certainly value the advice given, and will likely go with the 9800 Pro for $160...
I still have a wife, 4 kids, and a hotrod to feed, so cost is somewhat of a concern...

Carry on fellas... I'm learning.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:23:28 PM EST


Get a ATI 9800 Pro 256Meg card. Make sure it has a 256 bit memory interface. Do NOT get one with a 128 memory interface.

Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:25:03 PM EST

Originally Posted By Atencio:

The one thing you might want to make sure of though is that the Geforce card you have in there is a card and not a chipset on the mobo because the Geforce MX is a very common video chip placed on mobos. It wont be that big of a deal as long as you have a AGP slot.



I just crawled under the desk and looked at the back of the 'puter...
The vid card is definitely in a slot and is removable. <whew>
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:32:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By Boog:

Get a ATI 9800 Pro 256Meg card. Make sure it has a 256 bit memory interface. Do NOT get one with a 128 memory interface.




CRAP...

That one is $265...

www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=14-102-361&DEPA=1

I just can't make up my mind...

Unfortunatly, the common Arfcom gun purchase advice: "GET BOTH", just doesn't seem practical...
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:32:46 PM EST
Did you move the same ram and CPU over to the i875 board? If so you will not see much of a differace as the memory and CPU pipe lines bottle neck the amout of data that can move to the AGP.

If you went from a 533Mhz cpu with 333Mhz ram in single channel mode running on an I845 to a
800Mhz CPU of the same spped an core with 400Mhz ran in dual channel mode on an I875 with each having the same 9800 card the differance will be in the thousands of points in 3D mark03

I845
400Mhz Cpu to North bridge 3.2 gigabytes bandwithe
(266) Ram to North bridge 2.1 GB BW
AGP 4x to North bridge >1 GB BW

I875
800Mhz CPU to North Bridge 6.4 GB BW
Dual channel 400Mhz ram to North Bridge 6.4 GB BW
AGP 8x to North Bridge 2 GB BW

As you can see the CPU and ram you use can make a hugh differance in the overall video performance.

I agree the 9800 is hands down the better choice but, you pay for it.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:37:43 PM EST

Originally Posted By Dragracer_Art:

CRAP...

That one is $265...

www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=14-102-361&DEPA=1

I just can't make up my mind...

Unfortunatly, the common Arfcom gun purchase advice: "GET BOTH", just doesn't seem practical...



The 128bit memory interface is slower, no doubt, but is it $100 slower? Is it even $50 slower? To me, no. For you, probably not either. Just a personal opinion.

Just to confuse matters, a 9600XT would probably serve you quite well into the future as well.

You've got crap now... I have a GeForce 4MX and I know, they're slow for 3D. They're glorified GeForce 3 Ti200s (i.e., old). The 9800 Pro will be a huge improvement, whichever model you get.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:43:32 PM EST
Yeah the 9600XT is a great idea.
Might be the best "bang for the buck" in this situation.
Don't forget about the Fx 5700 256Mb if you prefer Nvidia cards from the right maker it is comparable.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:45:04 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 7:02:43 PM EST by Nexus6]

Originally Posted By CMA:
Did you move the same ram and CPU over to the i875 board? If so you will not see much of a differace as the memory and CPU pipe lines bottle neck the amout of data that can move to the AGP.
<snip>
As you can see the CPU and ram you use can make a hugh differance in the overall video performance.




Yes. CPU and RAM make a difference. But AGP 8x vs AGP 4x really doesn't. Really really. Want to see? Hold on.

Aquamark @ 8X AGP

GFX 6204
CPU 9911
Total 47269

Aquamark @ 4X AGP

GFX 6066
CPU 10126
Total 46697

Same box. All I did was switch from 8x AGP to 4x AGP. No difference.



I agree the 9800 is hands down the better choice but, you pay for it.



Never said performance was cheap.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:50:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 6:54:12 PM EST by Boog]
www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?description=14-127-127&DEPA=1

It's got 128M video ram as opposed to 256. Still a 256 bit memory interface.

This is still a great card.

Link Posted: 8/27/2004 6:50:58 PM EST

Originally Posted By CMA:
Yeah the 9600XT is a great idea.
Might be the best "bang for the buck" in this situation.
Don't forget about the Fx 5700 256Mb if you prefer Nvidia cards from the right maker it is comparable.



At this point, like earlier stated, ANYTHING is better than what I've got...

"Best bang for the buck" is basically what I'm after...

I just finished reading DOZENS of reviews on the 9800 Pro /256MB card, and I gotta say, now I'm actually considering one.

Somehow, I figured you guys would cost me alot more money than I was prepared to spend...

Keep in mind, I do spend a fair amount of time on the 'puter, and won't likely buy another for a long time.
I prolly won't order anything 'till Monday anyway, so keep the good advice flowing.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 7:33:08 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 7:36:16 PM EST by Who_Me]
Nvidia will out-perform ATI in Doom3................



www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=14-128-157&depa=1
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 7:54:38 PM EST
I got my Radeon 9800 Pro for $225.00 about 4 months ago. A Radeon 9800 pro will rape a geforce FX5200-5900U.

Currently I'm playing Doom3 on High settings, 1280x1024. Average 30-40 FPS, sometimes hits the max 60 fps, goes as low as 25 fps, but avs 30-40.

And this is with a stock Athlon XP 2100+, no overclock, and the Radeon at stock speeds as well. If I had the balls to void my ATI warranty, I'd replace the crappy stock HSF (sucks, but suprisingly I can still get a good overclock of 46mhz core and 40 mhz memory, with STOCK cooling) and ram sinks.

If you want a VERY GOOD card, thats not top of the line (which is stupid to do anyway, you should always stay a gereation behing......good price performace ratio) get Radeon 9800 pro. Just make sure its not the 128 -=BIT=- memory interface (can still 128 MB of memory), its the raped version. getting the Radeon 9800 Pro that has 256 MB of memory is not really gonna get you any performance increase with current games, for an x-tra $100. You would be better off getting a Radeon 9800 Pro 128 MB memory 256 BIT, and then getting an additional 512MB of system memory.
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 8:42:44 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2004 8:44:43 PM EST by AR-15Fan]
While I'm not a fanboy who will proclaim the 9800 Pro "rapes" all the competition (it most certainly does not, the top Nvidia FX cards are very competitive, especially in Doom3), it is a good card for the prices you can get one for now. They really have come down in price to a great point for the performance you get, Nvidia's top FX cards haven't dropped down to as good a price yet I don't believe...

Quick benchmark chart, this one without 4x AntiAliasing:


This one with the Antialiasing:
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 9:16:23 PM EST
Your Doom3 benchmarks bring up a good point on the 9800Pro, AR-15Fan.... Don't spend the extra money for the 256-MB version, it ain't worth it unless you are running resolutions higher than 1600x 1200 and 4xFSAA. Even then the numbers don't look worth forking over the extra bucks. As sae057 and myself have pointed out just buy the 9800Pro 128-MB(256-bit) version that Newegg sells for $194.00.

If you want to read head to head benchmarks between the 128-MB and 256-MB versions check out Tom's Hardware

linky
Link Posted: 8/27/2004 9:40:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By AR-15Fan:
While I'm not a fanboy who will proclaim the 9800 Pro "rapes" all the competition (it most certainly does not, the top Nvidia FX cards are very competitive, especially in Doom3), it is a good card for the prices you can get one for now. They really have come down in price to a great point for the performance you get, Nvidia's top FX cards haven't dropped down to as good a price yet I don't believe...

Quick benchmark chart, this one without 4x AntiAliasing:
firingsquad.com/hardware/doom3_perf2/images/d3h1024.gif

This one with the Antialiasing:
firingsquad.com/hardware/doom3_perf2/images/d3h10244aa8af.gif



Well, on Doom3 specifically (because its OpenGL) the higher end Nvidia cards keep up with the 9800 Pro. Take ANY D3D game, and a geforce FX 5900 or even 5950 sometimes, won't touch it, especially with AA and AS enabled.....not to mention the video quality. And even though on OpenGL games they may get more fps, and FX series will have worse image quality.

Now, the 6600 and 6800 series is a different story.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 5:47:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 5:49:43 PM EST by Dragracer_Art]
I bought the $76 ATI Radeon 9600SE...Cheapskate that I am.

It really made a big difference, but I can still only run Doom3 in "Medium" mode...
The biggest difference I noticed is the ability to max-out my monitor resolution at 1280 x 1024...The picture looks crystal clear now...

I think when the budget permits, I will get the 9800 Pro, and another 512MB of system RAM.

Thanks for the help guys... Looks like I shoulda spent a few extra dollars on the Mack-daddy video card after all...
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 6:00:29 PM EST

Originally Posted By Nexus6:

Originally Posted By BigD:

Originally Posted By Nexus6:
Get an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro.

It'll hand any Nvidia FX based card it's ass.



Bullshit. It doesn't compare AT ALL to a FX6800GT or Ultra.



What, in gods name, is an FX 6800 GT? Show me one.

Seriously.

Cause Nvidia KILLED the FX line when the GeForce 6 series (the 6 in 6800) came out. It's just a 6800, 6800GT, 6800Ultra, and now the 6600 and 6600GT.

And anyway, like I said, the 9800 Pro R350/R360 core kills the Nvidia FX based chips. I didn't say a damn thing about the 6800 series, which has decidely turned the tables.



My bad. I didn't realize the 6800 series wasn't considered "FX".
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