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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:08:26 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey: kinda surprising, looks like HOMER21 (Rivet Joint) is going to do a overflight https://fr24.com/HOMER21/2ae64db4 Freedom of navigation? |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:09:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlabamaFan64: A pretty strong country for awhile, now an albacore around NATO’s neck. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlabamaFan64: Originally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By realwar: Richard Grenell shreds Kamala Harris after Munich remarks  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw-ydo1SfigWhy Germany won't help Ukraine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvESFgKREo0Ah. Germany can't get alone without Russian natural gas, so Germany will let Russia do whatever it wants. A pretty strong country for awhile, now an albacore around NATO’s neck. People in glass houses sink ships. |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:09:35 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ar15joe: NOPE - that a glove on his right hand, left hand is about to take it off Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ar15joe: Originally Posted By AROKIE: The guys hand on the right his fingers tips are black with frostbite  NOPE - that a glove on his right hand, left hand is about to take it off Ya I know it was a joke |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:09:43 PM EDT
[#4]
 Putin orders Russian troops into Ukraine's separatist regions as the West levies sanctions |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:09:55 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cerecer: Dude our credibility and influence left the harbor decades ago. We are an impotent, bankrupt shit-show. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cerecer: Originally Posted By tstorms: Not necessarily. We need to do something substantial to reinforce Poland the Baltic states. That means at least a couple of ABCTs. Sending a couple of battalions of speed bumbs isn't very convincing. Sanctions are a joke If we don't do it soon, our credibility and influence is gone Dude our credibility and influence left the harbor decades ago. We are an impotent, bankrupt shit-show. Then we should get the fuck out and stop pretending. Half assing it is going to get our people killed |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:10:58 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: People in glass houses sink ships. FUCK! ASS!!
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ISR
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:11:02 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jDrexler: Russia isn’t a communist nation anymore, you know that right? They had wars between states before Communism was invented, you know that - right? |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:11:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jDrexler: If hypothetically there was going to be a rapid admission, Ukraine would have to formally cede all of their territory that they don't control. Donbass, Crimea, etc. Joining and then using NATO to try and take those areas back will never be on the table. |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:12:08 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fat_McNasty: FUCK! ASS!! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fat_McNasty: Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: People in glass houses sink ships. FUCK! ASS!! 
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:12:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By glocktalk: Did we find out what was shot down recently by Ukraine? Biden’s ability to use this a a diplomatic “win”. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:13:51 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstorms: Then we should get the fuck out and stop pretending. Half assing it is going to get our people killed Agreed. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:13:51 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chokey:
In Hudson’s voice: “I feel safer already.” |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:13:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OBird: https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/21/politics/donetsk-luhansk-putin-possible-invasion-ukraine/index.html Just step back from the whole situation, and look at what has actually happened here: Russia has declared parts of Ukraine to officially no longer be Ukraine, then invaded Ukraine, and then the US has said we won’t even trigger major sanctions over it. If this had happened out of the blue, during more “normal” times, with no huge buildup and no significant warning, I feel like the backlash would’ve been huge. But, when compared to the threat of full-on takeover, it barely warrants an official statement from western nations. If this was Russia’s sole intent all along (and I’m NOT suggesting that it is), it would be a fairly impressive victory on its own for Putin. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OBird: https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/21/politics/donetsk-luhansk-putin-possible-invasion-ukraine/index.html Still, in a call with reporters the senior administration official suggested that the mere movement of what Russia is calling "peacekeeping" forces into eastern Ukraine would not itself trigger the full sanctions package the Biden administration has threatened in the event of a Russian invasion, noting that "there have been Russian forces present in these areas" since 2014. Just step back from the whole situation, and look at what has actually happened here: Russia has declared parts of Ukraine to officially no longer be Ukraine, then invaded Ukraine, and then the US has said we won’t even trigger major sanctions over it. If this had happened out of the blue, during more “normal” times, with no huge buildup and no significant warning, I feel like the backlash would’ve been huge. But, when compared to the threat of full-on takeover, it barely warrants an official statement from western nations. If this was Russia’s sole intent all along (and I’m NOT suggesting that it is), it would be a fairly impressive victory on its own for Putin. So many pages out of the Art of War: Engage your enemy on many fronts The greatest victory is: To win a battle without firing a shot / “Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy’s resistance without fighting.” The Art of War makes the point that there is no such thing is an objective reality, but different interpretations of it. How close we interpret reality is a major element of winning or losing a war. In a sense, all wars are wars of information. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:15:05 PM EDT
[#14]
I'm still in the "nothing will happen" camp. We've heard for weeks that Russia is mobilizing a large invasion force along the border. Field hospitals being built, blood supplies distributed.
This is from the same POS intel agencies that thought the Taliban would take nearly a year or more to overrun Kabul. Putin recognized Donetsk and Luhansk and sent a "peacekeeping force" in. That's the extent of it. Who in their right minds thinks that Zelensky will order military action against the breakaway republics or superior Russian force? To top it all, Mr Potato Head all but green lighted a "minor incursion." They knew this was the strategy all along. Potato Head's advisers have even suggested that Putin's action did not necessarily trigger a retaliatory response in the form of sanctions. So, Putin, whom if sanctions had been placed against, will not have to play "in for a penny, in for a pound." He got exactly what he wanted and that's it. Biden will talk tough shit, Zelensky will cry more and next to useless US intel will suggest the invasion is "imminent" for the next ten years. Enhanced Kabuki theater. |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:17:02 PM EDT
[#15]
New poll? Will there be a phase 2?
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:17:05 PM EDT
[#16]
 NATO bolsters forces in Poland near Ukraine border |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:17:06 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bluegrasscardinal: I'm still in the "nothing will happen" camp. We've heard for weeks that Russia is mobilizing a large invasion force along the border. Field hospitals being built, blood supplies distributed. This is from the same POS intel agencies that thought the Taliban would take nearly a year or more to overrun Kabul. Putin recognized Donetsk and Luhansk and sent a "peacekeeping force" in. That's the extent of it. Who in their right minds thinks that Zelensky will order military action against the breakaway republics or superior Russian force? To top it all, Mr Potato Head all but green lighted a "minor incursion." They knew this was the strategy all along. Potato Head's advisers have even suggested that Putin's action did not necessarily trigger a retaliatory response in the form of sanctions. So, Putin, whom if sanctions had been placed against, will not have to play "in for a penny, in for a pound." He got exactly what he wanted and that's it. Biden will talk tough shit, Zelensky will cry more and next to useless US intel will suggest the invasion is "imminent" for the next ten years. Enhanced Kabuki theater. This in a nutshell. Your instincts serve you well. |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:17:42 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Protolith: I think you mean albatross, an albacore is a fish. to be fair, a big dead fish would be a terrible thing to have around ones neck. |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:18:07 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LurchAddams: Bidens' team said the sanctions won't impact Russia's ability to sell oil/gas. So the flow of cash to Russia will continue. Yep that is another HUGE wink and nod |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:18:34 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Ukraine would agree to that in a minute Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By jDrexler: If hypothetically there was going to be a rapid admission, Ukraine would have to formally cede all of their territory that they don't control. Donbass, Crimea, etc. Joining and then using NATO to try and take those areas back will never be on the table. Like every other European country, let the US pay in blood and money to defend us. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:18:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By oldbutspry: Welcome fellow enthusiast!! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By oldbutspry: Originally Posted By MaximXJ: Definitely a “camels nose under the tent” kind of thing. I thought the whole Crimean “were just defending Russian citizens” (who we just happened to hand out Russian passports to) was bold. Now they get to declare a proxy controlled breakaway region as “sovereign” and waltz right to to offer assistance and the world stands by with their thumbs in our asses? Not even meaningful sanctions? What we saw today was an ex-abuser drag his victim back into his house of horrors and slam the door. Welcome fellow enthusiast!! I knew I had it coming  I had a 2009 account (ex_dsmr) which I locked taking a break from arfcom and a 2013 account (photographic) which I can no longer log into after switching phones. Mods are free to confirm
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NY, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:19:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Ukraine would agree to that in a minute Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By trapsh00ter99: Originally Posted By jDrexler: If hypothetically there was going to be a rapid admission, Ukraine would have to formally cede all of their territory that they don't control. Donbass, Crimea, etc. Joining and then using NATO to try and take those areas back will never be on the table. Oh absolutely. Lose a limb to save the body. |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:20:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975: You can't win a war with fratricide. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975: Originally Posted By Smokehouse_83: Them A10's they want to get rid of could be real handy over yonder. I say load a carrier full of the mothballed ones and send um to Eastern Europe.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:21:17 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jdmdavey: This is the closest thing to truth I can come up with. Biden publicly said “minor incursion” and willingly or not gave Putin the green light. I would bet good money the US sold out Donbass with a pre negotiated conversation with Putin. This gives them the perfect scapegoat for their failed economy and sky rocketing energy costs. Putin wins, Biden wins, Ukraine gets some ATGMS and some harsh words, as well as stops short of leveraging the Biden Crime Family for their fraudulent dealings in the Ukrainian Energy Sector. that was NOT a mistake LOL it was a clear signal to Putin |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:21:47 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jDrexler:
Russia isn’t a communist nation anymore, you know that right? |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:22:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bluegrasscardinal: I'm still in the "nothing will happen" camp. We've heard for weeks that Russia is mobilizing a large invasion force along the border. Field hospitals being built, blood supplies distributed. This is from the same POS intel agencies that thought the Taliban would take nearly a year or more to overrun Kabul. Putin recognized Donetsk and Luhansk and sent a "peacekeeping force" in. That's the extent of it. Who in their right minds thinks that Zelensky will order military action against the breakaway republics or superior Russian force? To top it all, Mr Potato Head all but green lighted a "minor incursion." They knew this was the strategy all along. Potato Head's advisers have even suggested that Putin's action did not necessarily trigger a retaliatory response in the form of sanctions. So, Putin, whom if sanctions had been placed against, will not have to play "in for a penny, in for a pound." He got exactly what he wanted and that's it. Biden will talk tough shit, Zelensky will cry more and next to useless US intel will suggest the invasion is "imminent" for the next ten years. Enhanced Kabuki theater. That doesn't take into account Putin's rant today. Could be KGB tactics, could be he means and intends to enforce every word. |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:22:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: NATO should convene an emergency meeting and immediately grant the remainder of Ukraine NATO membership, before Putin can carve away any additional parts of it. Anything less is just pissing up a rope. We need to either be in or out. Fuck this dithering to and fro. Take a position. Make it a strong position. And go from there. Either cut Ukraine loose and concentrate on flooding the rest of eastern Europe with NATO forces, or otherwise grant them NATO membership and offer them protection. I am sick of this dilly dallying around. Never happen Germany would vote against it and it has to be a unanimous vote. Germany is chocking on Russian dong right now. Russia has Europe by the gonads with gas for heating. |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:23:48 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fat_McNasty: Yup, its not like fighting the goat herders we been playing patty cake with the last 20+ years. This is a real foe that has and can use state of the art weapon systems. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fat_McNasty: Originally Posted By Bunn19: They'd most likely be shot down pretty quickly by S-400s. Yup, its not like fighting the goat herders we been playing patty cake with the last 20+ years. This is a real foe that has and can use state of the art weapon systems. Look at how SU-25s fared in 2008 and 2014 against older systems. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:26:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Charging_Handle]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By voodochild: Never happen Germany would vote against it and it has to be a unanimous vote. Germany is chocking on Russian dong right now. Russia has Europe by the gonads with gas for heating. Then kick the useless fucking Germans out if they won't agree to it and let Ukraine have their spot. Germany knows their role. If the rest of the alliance jumps their shit, they'll fall in line. Germany will go along with whoever is most forceful. That is what pussies do. |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:27:56 PM EDT
[#30]
How come the US isn't deploying an armored or mechanized division to Poland? If they were serious, it would give the Russians something to seriously consider instead of light infantry only.
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:30:17 PM EDT
[#31]
 Major escalation in tension between Ukraine and Russia l WNT |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:30:20 PM EDT
[#32]
The speech by the Russian representative was certainly something, and his rebuke of the Ukrainian comments was straight up asshole.
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:30:46 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jDrexler: Russia isn’t a communist nation anymore, you know that right? Hmm- ok - if you are going to play semantics It's central ruling party that is not actually elected, that is actually controlled by oligarchs and autocrats left over from the communist structure with one "president" who is also not actually elected by the "people" my argument is still sound, the Russian government/ military does NOT have so much higher expenses from these movements / exercises that they are "forced" to do anything to recoup any. It's only when the start losing valuable equipment or highly trained people, THEN they start getting into some "debt" they will need to replace/spend real money on |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:31:28 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Then kick the useless fucking Germans out if they won't agree to it and let Ukraine have their spot. Germany knows their role. If the rest of the alliance jumps their shit, they'll fall in line. Germany will go along with whoever is most forceful. That is what pussies do. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Originally Posted By voodochild: Never happen Germany would vote against it and it has to be a unanimous vote. Germany is chocking on Russian dong right now. Russia has Europe by the gonads with gas for heating. Then kick the useless fucking Germans out if they won't agree to it and let Ukraine have their spot. Germany knows their role. If the rest of the alliance jumps their shit, they'll fall in line. Germany will go along with whoever is most forceful. That is what pussies do. Yep, fuck em |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:33:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Manchu65]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ronnoc: How come the US isn't deploying an armored or mechanized division to Poland? If they were serious, it would give the Russians something to seriously consider instead of light infantry only. Because it would take weeks and one 82nd E-2 in country achieves the desired result. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:33:47 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AbleArcher: The speech by the Russian representative was certainly something, and his rebuke of the Ukrainian comments was straight up asshole. I liked the Ukrainian response saying the UN is infected by a virus that comes from the Kremlin. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:34:11 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ronnoc: How come the US isn't deploying an armored or mechanized division to Poland? If they were serious, it would give the Russians something to seriously consider instead of light infantry only. I can imagine what the Poles and the Baltic states think about us right now. |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:35:17 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ziarifleman: Freedom of navigation? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ziarifleman: Originally Posted By Chokey: kinda surprising, looks like HOMER21 (Rivet Joint) is going to do a overflight https://fr24.com/HOMER21/2ae64db4 Freedom of navigation? No, real world surveillance. They have been doing it everyday for awhile now |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:35:44 PM EDT
[#39]
So what type of air craft was shot down today? Last I checked this thread around 5:00est something was shot down but know one knew what.
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NY, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:35:50 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ar15joe: Hmm- ok - if you are going to play semantics It's central ruling party that is not actually elected, that is actually controlled by oligarchs and autocrats left over from the communist structure with one "president" who is also not actually elected by the "people" my argument is still sound, the Russian government/ military does NOT have so much higher expenses from these movements / exercises that they are "forced" to do anything to recoup any. It's only when the start losing valuable equipment or highly trained people, THEN they start getting into some "debt" they will need to replace/spend real money on Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ar15joe: Originally Posted By jDrexler: Russia isn’t a communist nation anymore, you know that right? Hmm- ok - if you are going to play semantics It's central ruling party that is not actually elected, that is actually controlled by oligarchs and autocrats left over from the communist structure with one "president" who is also not actually elected by the "people" my argument is still sound, the Russian government/ military does NOT have so much higher expenses from these movements / exercises that they are "forced" to do anything to recoup any. It's only when the start losing valuable equipment or highly trained people, THEN they start getting into some "debt" they will need to replace/spend real money on It’s not “playing semantics” It’s called not saying completely incorrect things. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:35:57 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manchu65: Because it would take weeks and one 82nd E-2 in country achieves the desired result. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manchu65: Originally Posted By Ronnoc: How come the US isn't deploying an armored or mechanized division to Poland? If they were serious, it would give the Russians something to seriously consider instead of light infantry only. Because it would take weeks and one 82nd E-2 in country achieves the desired result. A half assed response is the desired result? I don't think so |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:36:10 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mnd6563: Isn't it about time wee go to war to defend the honor of some blue eyed, blonde haired, white girls?? Come on man? War is a way of life and is the natural order of the world in which we exist. Might as well get it on in a place known for their hotties!!! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By mnd6563: Originally Posted By Mad_Max1611: I love all the foreign policy experts we have in here. If you're thinking another American war is a good idea just stop. Isn't it about time wee go to war to defend the honor of some blue eyed, blonde haired, white girls?? Come on man? War is a way of life and is the natural order of the world in which we exist. Might as well get it on in a place known for their hotties!!! Ah, a kindred spirit. Notice my new avatar?  Attached File
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:40:26 PM EDT
[#43]
Score another win for the former KGB Soviet for outwitting Prez Puddin' head and all star cabinet.
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:40:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Look at how SU-25s fared in 2008 and 2014 against older systems. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Dracster: Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty: Originally Posted By Bunn19: They'd most likely be shot down pretty quickly by S-400s. Yup, its not like fighting the goat herders we been playing patty cake with the last 20+ years. This is a real foe that has and can use state of the art weapon systems. Look at how SU-25s fared in 2008 and 2014 against older systems. I can’t imagine we haven’t adapted even after twenty years of fighting goat herders what needs to be done going up against a peer or near peer. Wouldn’t be a cake walk but wouldn’t be suicide either. Granted if A10s are in Ukraine going after Russian armor God help us all. We know what that endgame looks like |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:42:27 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ar15joe: what? Are you kidding me LOL? They are COMMUNISTS There is not "cost" to the elites in the government, nothing that really matters in comparison to what they are going to manipulate out of this whole situation Your argument makes no sense. Regardless if they are communists or not, there is a cost for fuel. Russia doesn't get fuel for free because it came from within its borders in its raw form. They still pay companies/workers to mine/dig it up and to refine it. Plus, the point he made that went right over your head is because it is a commodity, they lose out on the revenue of what they could have sold it for if they didn't use it. Using your logic, the US just needs to formally switch to communism to solve our fuel costs issues. It would become basically free for us magically. Russia doesn't use slave labor. They still pay companies to refine the fuel. They still have to spend money to extract the fuel in raw form. It may be cheaper since it came from within their borders but there still is a cost. |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:42:31 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FrankyRay: Ah, a kindred spirit. Notice my new avatar? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/546602/UkraineFemMil_02_jpg-2288530.JPG Yes pls |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:42:35 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tstorms: A half assed response is the desired result? I don't think so I have done my job serving as a speed bump. One is at all it takes to be a deterrent. |
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:44:35 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manchu65: I have done my job serving as a speed bump. One is at all it takes to be a deterrent. Without an armored division on hand, Russia could take back all the Warsaw Pact countries and there is nothing that the US can do about it. We aren't going to nuke them for it. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:45:22 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manchu65: I have done my job serving as a speed bump. One is at all it takes to be a deterrent. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manchu65: Originally Posted By tstorms: A half assed response is the desired result? I don't think so I have done my job serving as a speed bump. One is at all it takes to be a deterrent. What you think and what the Poles and Baltic states think are two different things |
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AK, USA
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Posted: 2/21/2022 11:49:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: feetpiece]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Manchu65: I can’t imagine we haven’t adapted even after twenty years of fighting goat herders what needs to be done going up against a peer or near peer. Wouldn’t be a cake walk but wouldn’t be suicide either. Granted if A10s are in Ukraine going after Russian armor God help us all. We know what that endgame looks like The A-10 is slower than a P-38  |
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