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Posted: 5/22/2022 12:12:46 AM EDT
[#1]
In on 1999
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Posted: 5/22/2022 12:35:44 AM EDT
[#2]
Y2K here we come
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Posted: 5/22/2022 1:10:27 AM EDT
[#3]
I have to...partying like it's '99!
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Posted: 5/22/2022 1:11:45 AM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 5/22/2022 1:32:34 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JSteensen: I have to...partying like it's '99! 
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USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 1:45:44 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: Retarded post is retarded. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: Originally Posted By MattyCR: Originally Posted By AoD: >>>>If we matched EE our contribution would be 210 Billion dollars. If we gave Ukraine 210 billion dollars they'd march on Moscow and hang Putin for war crimes. Fuck yes, I'd pay that. AoD Nobody is stopping you. Be the change you want to happen. If you need help running guns to UA, Im sure there are folks that can make it happen. Retarded post is retarded. No, saying that ARFCOM could fund UA to 200 plus billion dollars if they matched the EE is whats retarded. Sorry the sarcasm wasnt dripping enough for you. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 1:54:22 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MattyCR: No, saying that ARFCOM could fund UA to 200 plus billion dollars if they matched the EE is whats retarded. Sorry the sarcasm wasnt dripping enough for you. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MattyCR: Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: Originally Posted By MattyCR: Originally Posted By AoD: >>>>If we matched EE our contribution would be 210 Billion dollars. If we gave Ukraine 210 billion dollars they'd march on Moscow and hang Putin for war crimes. Fuck yes, I'd pay that. AoD Nobody is stopping you. Be the change you want to happen. If you need help running guns to UA, Im sure there are folks that can make it happen. Retarded post is retarded. No, saying that ARFCOM could fund UA to 200 plus billion dollars if they matched the EE is whats retarded. Sorry the sarcasm wasnt dripping enough for you. Um..... He didn't say that. EE = Estonia. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 2:23:41 AM EDT
[#8]
 Prince - 1999 (Official Music Video) |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 2:33:05 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MattyCR: No, saying that ARFCOM could fund UA to 200 plus billion dollars if they matched the EE is whats retarded. Sorry the sarcasm wasnt dripping enough for you. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MattyCR: Originally Posted By Ryan_Ruck: Originally Posted By MattyCR: Originally Posted By AoD: >>>>If we matched EE our contribution would be 210 Billion dollars. If we gave Ukraine 210 billion dollars they'd march on Moscow and hang Putin for war crimes. Fuck yes, I'd pay that. AoD Nobody is stopping you. Be the change you want to happen. If you need help running guns to UA, Im sure there are folks that can make it happen. Retarded post is retarded. No, saying that ARFCOM could fund UA to 200 plus billion dollars if they matched the EE is whats retarded. Sorry the sarcasm wasnt dripping enough for you. I...uh...I think you misinterpreted the post lol |
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USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 3:31:17 AM EDT
[#10]
What’s the ratio of ATGMs exported to the amount of armor fielded by Russia?
Is there a certain point where it just makes more sense for Russia to do plain old infantry again? |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 3:45:27 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Germany should be ashamed. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By Jack67: Here's an index of aid (military, econ, humanitrian) by GDP. As you can see, the Baltics and Poland are leading the way by that metric. This is from a German think-tank as of 5/10. a) US's portion would be double the % shown factoring in this last round just approved. this chart was as of 5/10. b) Don't know whether pledged or delivered, actual link below for methodology. Probably pledged. c) Factoring the last package, we'd now be ~equal to Poland, and about 1/2 of Estonia's commitment, by GDP. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/556465/ukraid_jpg-2392221.JPG Here is the source: https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ Germany should be ashamed. I miss Italy, Spain and Portugal |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:03:12 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: US Artillery and Russian Artillery were similar in that compared to everyone else, they used a lot of it, based on scientific methods and industrial output. HOW they used it was actually diametrically opposed. Russians: There is a German Corps over here and we're going to kill it. Our infantry, compared to theirs, sucks. We will attack with a Front Army Group. One shock army will attack on the left, and pass through a tank army. Same on their right flank. A couple of infantry armies in the middle. Half the artillery will smash the German left in front of that attack, half on the other flank, all the infantry armies in the middle will make do with nothing. Outside of the Marshal in charge, and a couple of his staff nugs, almost noone had any say in it. The Germans in front of the main efforts on the left and right get vaporized on two small sectors while all the other Soviet attacks are completely unsupported. It is extremely centralized. It is effective, if the Marshal decides you deserve massed fires. The main effort gets 100% and everyone else gets 0%. Don't bother complaining because the Red Army doesn't give a shit about you. Die gloriously Comrade and don't bitch about the artillery you don't get. Americans: A US Army infantry division had four battalions, but could call on more. On paper, artillery had priority of support, but thanks to the fire direction centers it didn't matter because everyone could mass fire on anything in, say, half an hour. Two infantry regiments would conduct night time patrols to identify the Germans and ID positions. On Monday, 1st Regiment attacks on the left, supported by four battalions of artillery. On Tuesday, 2nd Regiment attacks on the right, while 1st conducts probes and maintains the attack, except for from 0600-0900 when the division artillery supports 2nd regiment. That night a patrol identifies a German assembly area, so the division lobs a time on target on that, a coupel hundred rounds in ten minutes, just for kicks. The next day 2nd regiment is about to advance but a company on the far left of first sees a counterattack of two battalions of Germans, so what the hell, the Divarty chief calls up the Corps Artillery as well. Things are grim for 20 minutes until the German battalion commander realizes he cant punch through a single US infantry battalion because five US artillery battalions are massed in its defense. But on the right, a US battalion commander gets in trouble because he did poor reconnaissance and his prep fires went in the wrong place. US Artillery was so responsive, thanks to FDCs, logistics, and signals, noone else came close, compared to everyone else that priority of fires mattered less then who had seen a big juicy target. Amateurs talk about MG42s and sturmgewehrs, US artillerymen kept one eye looking over their shoulder to make sure the truck drivers were feeding the gun line with 105mm. As long as they did, all was well. US Artillery was like a giant playing the greatest game of Whack a Mole ever, where the Germans are the Moles. it was so responsive it just massed fires like a giant throwing haymakers as targets popped up. And any forward observer that saw a big ass German mole felt totally justified asking for every tube he could beg borrow or steal, if there was a target that justified mass destruction. Infantry was more or less patrolling and attacking slowly to find moles. Doctrinally, US fires was all about responsiveness IAW targeting priorities, (" DO your thing guys, but Anybody that sees a couple hundred Germans in one place, we let loose EVERYTHING on them. Go get 'em") Russian artillery was unresponsive. It didn't respond to you. Don't ask. Period. Germans didn't have the tech to respond in mass, and the Brits were like the Americans. The Ukrainians are using their artillery like the US Army, but they take it a step further, and drones are even cheaper then WWII US Infantry. And if a drone or SOF team in Sector A sees a lot of targets, it is doubtful anyone says, "Hey, our guns have a priority of fire in Sector B. Go pound sand." But I don't know if they are massing fires. They may not be able to. I defer to @R0N. It is highly doubtful in my mind the Russians are doing anything in a really decentralize way. They never have before. They have the means to, say send a Spetznaz patrol and mass fires in support of it, but the lack of centralized fire planning would probably give them a stroke. I could be wrong. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: Originally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: I dont know about Russian arty in WWII but it seems like a mix now: Saturate and level enemy held territory, regardless of civilians of collateral damage AND also target actual enemy if possible. It was pretty much the same, no real doctrinal difference to most observers. Which is kind of shocking, really. Google up "Seelow Heights" for the penultimate Soviet WWII bombardment. Supposedly largest in history (by tube count). To be fair though, US started to use the same tactics once they hit the German border from the west. Street fighting was so intense, they took a stand-off approach to just level everything they could before engaging. US Artillery and Russian Artillery were similar in that compared to everyone else, they used a lot of it, based on scientific methods and industrial output. HOW they used it was actually diametrically opposed. Russians: There is a German Corps over here and we're going to kill it. Our infantry, compared to theirs, sucks. We will attack with a Front Army Group. One shock army will attack on the left, and pass through a tank army. Same on their right flank. A couple of infantry armies in the middle. Half the artillery will smash the German left in front of that attack, half on the other flank, all the infantry armies in the middle will make do with nothing. Outside of the Marshal in charge, and a couple of his staff nugs, almost noone had any say in it. The Germans in front of the main efforts on the left and right get vaporized on two small sectors while all the other Soviet attacks are completely unsupported. It is extremely centralized. It is effective, if the Marshal decides you deserve massed fires. The main effort gets 100% and everyone else gets 0%. Don't bother complaining because the Red Army doesn't give a shit about you. Die gloriously Comrade and don't bitch about the artillery you don't get. Americans: A US Army infantry division had four battalions, but could call on more. On paper, artillery had priority of support, but thanks to the fire direction centers it didn't matter because everyone could mass fire on anything in, say, half an hour. Two infantry regiments would conduct night time patrols to identify the Germans and ID positions. On Monday, 1st Regiment attacks on the left, supported by four battalions of artillery. On Tuesday, 2nd Regiment attacks on the right, while 1st conducts probes and maintains the attack, except for from 0600-0900 when the division artillery supports 2nd regiment. That night a patrol identifies a German assembly area, so the division lobs a time on target on that, a coupel hundred rounds in ten minutes, just for kicks. The next day 2nd regiment is about to advance but a company on the far left of first sees a counterattack of two battalions of Germans, so what the hell, the Divarty chief calls up the Corps Artillery as well. Things are grim for 20 minutes until the German battalion commander realizes he cant punch through a single US infantry battalion because five US artillery battalions are massed in its defense. But on the right, a US battalion commander gets in trouble because he did poor reconnaissance and his prep fires went in the wrong place. US Artillery was so responsive, thanks to FDCs, logistics, and signals, noone else came close, compared to everyone else that priority of fires mattered less then who had seen a big juicy target. Amateurs talk about MG42s and sturmgewehrs, US artillerymen kept one eye looking over their shoulder to make sure the truck drivers were feeding the gun line with 105mm. As long as they did, all was well. US Artillery was like a giant playing the greatest game of Whack a Mole ever, where the Germans are the Moles. it was so responsive it just massed fires like a giant throwing haymakers as targets popped up. And any forward observer that saw a big ass German mole felt totally justified asking for every tube he could beg borrow or steal, if there was a target that justified mass destruction. Infantry was more or less patrolling and attacking slowly to find moles. Doctrinally, US fires was all about responsiveness IAW targeting priorities, (" DO your thing guys, but Anybody that sees a couple hundred Germans in one place, we let loose EVERYTHING on them. Go get 'em") Russian artillery was unresponsive. It didn't respond to you. Don't ask. Period. Germans didn't have the tech to respond in mass, and the Brits were like the Americans. The Ukrainians are using their artillery like the US Army, but they take it a step further, and drones are even cheaper then WWII US Infantry. And if a drone or SOF team in Sector A sees a lot of targets, it is doubtful anyone says, "Hey, our guns have a priority of fire in Sector B. Go pound sand." But I don't know if they are massing fires. They may not be able to. I defer to @R0N. It is highly doubtful in my mind the Russians are doing anything in a really decentralize way. They never have before. They have the means to, say send a Spetznaz patrol and mass fires in support of it, but the lack of centralized fire planning would probably give them a stroke. I could be wrong. Doctrinally, mostly due to poorly trained gunners, Soviet artillery was frequently used in direct fire mode. This gets the job done with far fewer shells and less time, but the flip side is more casualties and less flexibility. Except for a few rare cases ((155 SP in Cherbourg for example) US artillery stayed away from that. There's a reason why at least through the cold war, every Soviet tube up to 152mm carried HEAT rounds as part of their basic load. Massing fires when every shell hits more or less right where you want it is pretty wasteful. With drones and modern coms, I expect artillery to rarely have more than a single system in one spot. Russian attacks even where successful don't appear to be very swift, plenty of time to attrite them. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:19:47 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Phocks: Massing fires when every shell hits more or less right where you want it is pretty wasteful. With drones and modern coms, I expect artillery to rarely have more than a single system in one spot. Russian attacks even where successful don't appear to be very swift, plenty of time to attrite them. Disagree. The targets aren’t single vehicles or small clusters of individuals typically, they move in groups. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:36:08 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mfaux: What’s the ratio of ATGMs exported to the amount of armor fielded by Russia? Is there a certain point where it just makes more sense for Russia to do plain old infantry again? I would love to know the ratio of Jav's, NLAWS, etc. to knocked out tanks. If it's 10:1 or better I would be amazed. With probably half captured, destroyed etc. before ever being fired. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:51:29 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: US Artillery and Russian Artillery were similar in that compared to everyone else, they used a lot of it, based on scientific methods and industrial output. HOW they used it was actually diametrically opposed. Russians: There is a German Corps over here and we're going to kill it. Our infantry, compared to theirs, sucks. We will attack with a Front Army Group. One shock army will attack on the left, and pass through a tank army. Same on their right flank. A couple of infantry armies in the middle. Half the artillery will smash the German left in front of that attack, half on the other flank, all the infantry armies in the middle will make do with nothing. Outside of the Marshal in charge, and a couple of his staff nugs, almost noone had any say in it. The Germans in front of the main efforts on the left and right get vaporized on two small sectors while all the other Soviet attacks are completely unsupported. It is extremely centralized. It is effective, if the Marshal decides you deserve massed fires. The main effort gets 100% and everyone else gets 0%. Don't bother complaining because the Red Army doesn't give a shit about you. Die gloriously Comrade and don't bitch about the artillery you don't get. Americans: A US Army infantry division had four battalions, but could call on more. On paper, artillery had priority of support, but thanks to the fire direction centers it didn't matter because everyone could mass fire on anything in, say, half an hour. Two infantry regiments would conduct night time patrols to identify the Germans and ID positions. On Monday, 1st Regiment attacks on the left, supported by four battalions of artillery. On Tuesday, 2nd Regiment attacks on the right, while 1st conducts probes and maintains the attack, except for from 0600-0900 when the division artillery supports 2nd regiment. That night a patrol identifies a German assembly area, so the division lobs a time on target on that, a coupel hundred rounds in ten minutes, just for kicks. The next day 2nd regiment is about to advance but a company on the far left of first sees a counterattack of two battalions of Germans, so what the hell, the Divarty chief calls up the Corps Artillery as well. Things are grim for 20 minutes until the German battalion commander realizes he cant punch through a single US infantry battalion because five US artillery battalions are massed in its defense. But on the right, a US battalion commander gets in trouble because he did poor reconnaissance and his prep fires went in the wrong place. US Artillery was so responsive, thanks to FDCs, logistics, and signals, noone else came close, compared to everyone else that priority of fires mattered less then who had seen a big juicy target. Amateurs talk about MG42s and sturmgewehrs, US artillerymen kept one eye looking over their shoulder to make sure the truck drivers were feeding the gun line with 105mm. As long as they did, all was well. US Artillery was like a giant playing the greatest game of Whack a Mole ever, where the Germans are the Moles. it was so responsive it just massed fires like a giant throwing haymakers as targets popped up. And any forward observer that saw a big ass German mole felt totally justified asking for every tube he could beg borrow or steal, if there was a target that justified mass destruction. Infantry was more or less patrolling and attacking slowly to find moles. Doctrinally, US fires was all about responsiveness IAW targeting priorities, (" DO your thing guys, but Anybody that sees a couple hundred Germans in one place, we let loose EVERYTHING on them. Go get 'em") Russian artillery was unresponsive. It didn't respond to you. Don't ask. Period. Germans didn't have the tech to respond in mass, and the Brits were like the Americans. The Ukrainians are using their artillery like the US Army, but they take it a step further, and drones are even cheaper then WWII US Infantry. And if a drone or SOF team in Sector A sees a lot of targets, it is doubtful anyone says, "Hey, our guns have a priority of fire in Sector B. Go pound sand." But I don't know if they are massing fires. They may not be able to. I defer to @R0N. It is highly doubtful in my mind the Russians are doing anything in a really decentralize way. They never have before. They have the means to, say send a Spetznaz patrol and mass fires in support of it, but the lack of centralized fire planning would probably give them a stroke. I could be wrong. Very interesting. Thank you. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 4:56:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CPT_CAVEMAN: If you could guarantee they'd actually march to Moscow, I'd say cut them a check. Without going to nukes, I agree. I understand the hesitancy, especially on the right, to send $$ to Ukraine while things are literally falling apart here at home, intentionally. But for a return on investment, turning Russia from a world pariah to....hopefully something else...world be glorious. Especially if that "something else" helped hold the line against China. But most likely we will get another N. Korea type situation except with 6K nukes and the worlds largest land mass. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 6:18:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: iggy1337]
[#17]
Pretty amazing we have come to page 1999 and Ukraine is still in the game.
As a cold war kid I never expected to see large scale Western weapons taking out Russian armor on the plains of Europe as god made them to do. Also props and much respect for Artillery guys and producers. Because what I know about war come from playing Battlefield I just assumed armies just fielded artillery to give the old geezers something to do. Turns out it's fucking important in real war. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 6:39:45 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mfaux: What’s the ratio of ATGMs exported to the amount of armor fielded by Russia? Is there a certain point where it just makes more sense for Russia to do plain old infantry again? That would imply that Russia has some... A bunch of newbs walking through the fields and forests with guns is a far cry from skilled infantry. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 7:07:33 AM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 5/22/2022 7:11:33 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975:
Lol how many men and equipment are they willing to sacrifice to cross this |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 7:14:39 AM EDT
[#21]
Czech MLRS RM-70
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FL, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 7:15:42 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975:
It is funnier when they let the Russians build the bridge, then wipe out an entire BTG while they are trying to cross it. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 7:19:18 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Beltfed308: This is the first time I can remember that the side we are supporting just the wanting the tools. More than willing to fight/die on their own. In fact they aren't dropping weapons' and running when things get spicy. Brave people and leadership, I am glad that we are helping them. It is the only thing this administration has gotten somewhat right. -whataboutisms -well go fight yourself -pay me for my portion -or the stupidest was someone told me "pay my student loans then" On topic, really worried about the developments in the east. UA has been smart this whole war, hope they have a plan. Any word what additional weapons support will be from the new aid besides patriots? |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 7:45:46 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: .what else choice did the Germans have st that point in the war? Seriously ask yourself that. Resources were scarce as was infantry, would we have done different? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AROKIE: Originally Posted By Banditman: Originally Posted By ACDer: Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: This "American" way of fighting frustrated the Germans in WWII. Apparently they were more used to the fire and maneuver...riflemen fix the target while the MG42, mortars kill and tanks maneuver/assault through... American infantry located the Germans (as detailed in the quoted post) and just shot it out with them while calling in arty, which totally destroyed the Germans. Anyway, that was the plan, so I'm told. I've seen this said in a number of german memoirs-the Americans didn't "fight fair", i.e. they relied on arty and air support to plaster the germans rather then take casualties in infantry assaults. But it was OK to pummel the Allied troops during the Battle of the Bulge with artillery. .what else choice did the Germans have st that point in the war? Seriously ask yourself that. Resources were scarce as was infantry, would we have done different? My point is that the hypocrisy. Germans bombed the shit out people with air power and ground weapons and then say we did not fight fair when we used the same methods they did. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 8:28:35 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SafetyFirst: Yep, all is fair in love and war. SOB's literally crossed the line and started this. Whatever missles UA has that will reach Moscow and St Petersburg they should launch them in mass. When you invade and bomb cities into a mass of rubble that is all the provocation the invaded country needs to return the favor. I think that a primary defense objective fit any nation sharing a border with Russia should be obtaining weapons that could hit the Moscow and St. Petersburg areas to force Russia to think about any war instantly involving their citizens. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 8:53:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: FDC]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher15: In WW1 the shrapnel ranged in size from slivers to chunks the size of serving platters. It wasnt uncommon to have half the shell stay together and become shrapnel itself. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cypher15: Originally Posted By R0N: 795 is nominally 103lbs with appprox 23lbs of explosive. It's made of high fragmentation steel that is manufactured to create uniform fragments Fragment size in older rounds varied on both manufacture tech, metal used and explosive used. TNT tended to make large, less uniform fragments but explosives like Comp B tended to produced smaller more even fra Could not find any Comp B, this TNT frag https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/56596/0E6CE92A-2411-4D12-B8C5-8517C852770B_jpe-2392041.JPG Even our "current" stuff comes in all shapes and sizes. US M107(155) and M1(105) below. The M795 is a really nice round compared to these.  *the M107 is an assumption-I forgot where I picked it up. |
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CO, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 8:54:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: CharlieR]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ACDer: I've seen this said in a number of german memoirs-the Americans didn't "fight fair", i.e. they relied on arty and air support to plaster the germans rather then take casualties in infantry assaults. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ACDer: Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: This "American" way of fighting frustrated the Germans in WWII. Apparently they were more used to the fire and maneuver...riflemen fix the target while the MG42, mortars kill and tanks maneuver/assault through... American infantry located the Germans (as detailed in the quoted post) and just shot it out with them while calling in arty, which totally destroyed the Germans. Anyway, that was the plan, so I'm told. I've seen this said in a number of german memoirs-the Americans didn't "fight fair", i.e. they relied on arty and air support to plaster the germans rather then take casualties in infantry assaults. Lets say a US infantry battalion takes a hill. The Germans counterattack with a crack infantry battalion. Superbly trained, combat experienced leaders, latest equipment...MG42s, Sturmgewehrs. The best, you name it: Waffen SS, panzergrenadier, fallschirmjager...whoeever. The US battalion commander on teh hill yells at his FSO, who bucks the request up to the Divarty Chief, and it goes up fast, silence is consent, perfect US comms, and the King of Battle up on his throne says, "OK My Son, your wishes are granted. Hulk Smash"...or whatever cool things he says. "15 minutes of division priority of fire." Here's what you get: One infantry division x four artillery battalions x18 guns per battalion x3 rounds per minute per gun x15 minutes (I made that up) =3240 mostly 105mm and some 155mm shells, or Give or take, 80 tons of metal; EIGHT MILLION metal fragments. In fifteen minutes. With great accuracy. Troops in the open. There is no way in hell 400 German attackers are advancing through 8 million pieces of frag. The guys doing it could have been employees at Ford Motor Company: Map surveyors, commo guys, signal radio men, truck drivers, gun crews, math geeks in the FDCs. They will take no casualties and 30 minutes later they could do it again. All day, every day. The moral center of gravity, if you will, of the US Army for the last 80 years has been that core of people. The ability to do that whenever we want. Its not fair. 'Merica. We kill with HE. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 8:54:55 AM EDT
[#28]
Full detailed report for Ukraine 5:30pm Eastern May 21
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-21 May 21, 5:30 pm ET Russian forces intensified efforts to encircle and capture Severodonetsk on May 21 and will likely continue to do so in the coming days as efforts on other axes of advance, including Izyum, remain largely stalled. Russian troops in Luhansk Oblast will likely move to capitalize on recent gains made in the Rubizhne-Severodonetsk-Luhansk-Popasna arc to encircle and besiege Severodonetsk—the final Ukrainian strongpoint in Luhansk Oblast. Russian milbloggers are hypothesizing on the success of Russian tactics in the area and have dubbed it the Battle of Severodonetsk—emphasizing that this is the preliminary line of effort in the Donbas theatre. Key Takeaways Russian forces are conducting operations to cut off Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) between Severodonetsk and Lysychansk across the Severskyi Donetsk River. The information space in Mariupol will likely become increasingly restricted in the coming weeks as Russian forces shift focus from completing the capture of the Azovstal Steel Plant to consolidating occupational control of the city. Russian troops are likely reinforcing their grouping around Kharkiv City to prevent further Ukrainian advances toward the international border. Russian forces may be assembling forces in certain areas of Zaporizhia and Kherson oblasts to initiate further offensive operations on the southern axis.  We do not report in detail on Russian war crimes because those activities are well-covered in Western media and do not directly affect the military operations we are assessing and forecasting. We will continue to evaluate and report on the effects of these criminal activities on the Ukrainian military and population and specifically on combat in Ukrainian urban areas. We utterly condemn these Russian violations of the laws of armed conflict, Geneva Conventions, and humanity even though we do not describe them in these reports. ISW has updated its assessment of the four primary efforts Russian forces are engaged in at this time. We have stopped coverage of supporting effort 4, “Sumy and northeastern Ukraine,” because it is no longer an active effort. Main effort—Eastern Ukraine (comprised of one subordinate and three supporting efforts); Subordinate main effort—Encirclement of Ukrainian troops in the cauldron between Izyum and Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts Supporting effort 1—Mariupol; Supporting effort 2—Kharkiv City; Supporting effort 3—Southern axis. Main Effort—Eastern Ukraine Subordinate Main Effort—Southern Kharkiv, Donetsk, Luhansk Oblasts (Russian objective: Encircle Ukrainian forces in Eastern Ukraine and capture the entirety of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts, the claimed territory of Russia’s proxies in Donbas) Russian forces made small advances southeast of Izyum on May 21. Footage posted by the Donetsk People’s Republic (DNR) on May 21 showed DNR forces examining a destroyed dam in Oskil, about 10 km southeast of Izyum, suggesting that Ukrainian forces likely withdrew from the settlement across the Oskil River.[1] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian forces around Izyum are preparing to resume an offensive in the direction of Slovyansk.[2] Russian forces additionally shelled Velyka Komyshuvakha to the southwest of Izyum and Dovehenke to the southeast of Izyum, indicating they plan to continue offensive operations to the south of Izyum.[3] Russian forces made gains in the Rubizhne-Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area and intensified efforts to capture Severodonetsk on May 21. Russian troops blew up a bridge across the Severskyi Donetsk River between Severodonetsk and Lysychansk, setting conditions to sever Ukrainian ground lines of communication (GLOCs) and take Severodonetsk.[4] Pro-Russian milbloggers wrote about the beginning of the Battle of Severodonetsk on May 20 and claimed that Russian forces are closing in on the area from the north, east, and south.[5] The milbloggers emphasized the importance of disrupting Ukrainian GLOCs between Lysychansk and Severodonetsk, which are facilitated by at least two major bridges across the Severskyi Donetsk River. Russian forces’ destruction of at least one of the two bridges between the two towns will likely hinder Ukrainian GLOCs to Severodonetsk and indicate a Russian effort to encircle the city.[6] Russian forces reportedly conducted attacks against several towns around Popasna, which may allow them to push northward toward Severodonetsk.[7] Russian claims about their gains around Popasna remain unconfirmed by open sources as of the time of this publication.   Russian forces focused on offensive operations around Lyman but did not make any confirmed advances on May 21.[9] The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Russian troops are fighting in Lypove, Vasylivka, Marinka, and Novomykhailivka under air and artillery support and that Russian forces plan to resume operations in the area of Yampil-Siversk (just east of Lyman) by crossing the Severskyi Donets River.[10] The main Russian effort in the Lyman area will likely focus on advancing westward to reach the Donetsk-Kharkiv Oblast administrative border and merge with operations to the south of Izyum.  Supporting Effort #1—Mariupol (Russian objective: Capture Mariupol and reduce the Ukrainian defenders) The Russian Ministry of Defense claimed full control of Mariupol as the last group of Ukrainian fighters surrendered and left the Azovstal Steel Plant on May 21.[11] The announcement of the conclusion of hostilities in Mariupol comes a month after Russian President Vladimir Putin and Defense Minister Sergey Shoigu claimed victory in the Battle of Mariupol on April 21.[12] Russian forces reportedly began demining the territory of the plant and restoring the Port of Mariupol.[13] Russian occupation forces are likely intensifying “filtration” processes to consolidate control of Mariupol. Ukrainian Ombudsman Lyudmila Denisova stated that up to 4,000 men from Mariupol are now in filtration camps outside of the city, and Advisor to the Mayor of Mariupol Petro Andryushchenko claimed that Chechen Rosgvardia troops are taking over control of filtration points as DNR forces redeploy to other areas.[14] The information space in Mariupol will likely become increasingly restricted in the coming weeks as Russian forces shift their attention from the capture of Azovstal to consolidating occupational control over the city. Supporting Effort #2—Kharkiv City (Russian objective: Withdraw forces to the north and defend ground lines of communication (GLOCs) to Izyum) Russian forces maintained their positions to prevent further Ukrainian advances toward the Russian border and conducted air and artillery strikes north of Kharkiv City on May 21.[15] The Ukrainian General Staff noted that Russia intends to strengthen its grouping around Kharkiv City with unspecified elements of the 1st Guards Tank Army.[16] The Internal Minister of the Luhansk People’s Republic (LNR) additionally claimed that its personnel are operating in Vovchansk, northern Kharkiv Oblast.[17] These reports indicate that Russian forces are reinforcing their presence north of Kharkiv City to hold their current positions and push back potential Ukrainian advances further north toward the international border and east toward Russian GLOCs heading toward Izyum.  Supporting Effort #3—Southern Axis (Objective: Defend Kherson against Ukrainian counterattacks) Russian forces may be preparing for an offensive to capture the remainder of northern Kherson Oblast and push toward Zaporizhia City despite not making any confirmed advances on the southern axis on May 21.[18] The Kherson Regional State Administration stated that Russian troops are replenishing their grouping in Vysokopillyya and Arkhangelske, northern Kherson Oblast, in anticipation of increased combat activity in the area of the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border.[19] The Zaporizhia Regional Military Administration noted that there is a high concentration of Russian forces in Inzhenerne, south of Huliapole, indicating that Russian troops are potentially preparing for continued offensives toward Huliapole.[20] The Zaporizhia Regional Military Administration claimed that occupying forces in Melitopol are hanging banners to celebrate the 220th anniversary of the Taurida Governate, which may indicate Russian forces intend to make occupied areas in Kherson and Zaporizhia a quasi-republic like the LNR or DNR, but also emphasizes lack of consistency in handling occupation agendas across Ukraine.[21] Russian forces additionally shelled and launched missile strikes on Mykolaiv, Odesa, Zaporizhia, and Kherson oblasts.[22]  Ukrainian authorities are reportedly strengthening border security between Ukraine and Transnistria.[23] The local Ukrainian border guard detachment announced new restrictions prohibiting the civilian use of drones, night vision equipment, and navigation of small boats in the area. The Ukrainian General Staff reported that Ukrainian forces are protecting the border and conducting counter-sabotage measures.[24]  Immediate items to watch Russian forces are likely reinforcing their grouping north of Kharkiv City to prevent further advances of the Ukrainian counteroffensive toward the Russian border. Russan forces may commit elements of the 1st Tank Army to northern Kharkiv in the near future. The Russians will continue efforts to encircle Severodonetsk and Lysychansk at least from the south, possibly by focusing on cutting off the last highway connecting Severodonetsk-Lysychansk with the rest of Ukraine. Russian forces in Mariupol will likely shift their focus to occupational control of the city as the siege of Azovstal has concluded. Russian forces are likely preparing for Ukrainian counteroffensives and settling in for protracted operations in southern Ukraine. |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:04:49 AM EDT
[#29]
Ukrainian drone hitting a Russian MLRS and a T tank, both look like kills.
 https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/uv83m1/ukrainian_dronedropped_munition_strikes_on_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:07:43 AM EDT
[#30]
Footage showing how the large 240mm Russian morter was tracked then attacked yesterday.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/uv6ncn/the_moment_russias_240_mm_2s4_tyulpan/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:07:57 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Ukrainian drone hitting a Russian MLRS and a T tank, both look like kills. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/uv83m1/ukrainian_dronedropped_munition_strikes_on_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 Sweet |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:08:29 AM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:08:57 AM EDT
[#33]
Ukraine 45th Artillery with drone doing more work on what looks like a Russian motor pool.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/uv5nkq/45th_artillery_brigade_of_afu_at_work_may_2022/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:09:10 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Footage showing how the large 240mm Russian morter was tracked then attacked yesterday. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/uv6ncn/the_moment_russias_240_mm_2s4_tyulpan/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
They need to destroy all of those. Just like they target the triples 7s |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:11:41 AM EDT
[#35]
Drone and Stugna-p ATGM strike on a Russian supply truck supplying an outpost.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/uv3f6u/ukrainian_special_forces_stirke_a_russian_supply/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:17:11 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: Lets say a US infantry battalion takes a hill. The Germans counterattack with a crack infantry battalion. Superbly trained, combat experienced leaders, latest equipment...MG42s, Sturmgewehrs. The best, you name it: Waffen SS, panzergrenadier, fallschirmjager...whoeever. The US battalion commander on teh hill yells at his FSO, who bucks the request up to the Divarty Chief, and it goes up fast, silence is consent, perfect US comms, and the King of Battle up on his throne says, "OK My Son, your wishes are granted. Hulk Smash"...or whatever cool things he says. "15 minutes of division priority of fire." Here's what you get: One infantry division x four artillery battalions x18 guns per battalion x3 rounds per minute per gun x15 minutes (I made that up) =3240 mostly 105mm and some 155mm shells, or Give or take, 80 tons of metal; EIGHT MILLION metal fragments. In fifteen minutes. With great accuracy. Troops in the open. There is no way in hell 400 German attackers are advancing through 8 million pieces of frag. The guys doing it could have been employees at Ford Motor Company: Map surveyors, commo guys, signal radio men, truck drivers, gun crews, math geeks in the FDCs. They will take no casualties and 30 minutes later they could do it again. All day, every day. The moral center of gravity, if you will, of the US Army for the last 80 years has been that core of people. The ability to do that whenever we want. Its not fair. 'Merica. We kill with HE. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: Originally Posted By ACDer: Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: This "American" way of fighting frustrated the Germans in WWII. Apparently they were more used to the fire and maneuver...riflemen fix the target while the MG42, mortars kill and tanks maneuver/assault through... American infantry located the Germans (as detailed in the quoted post) and just shot it out with them while calling in arty, which totally destroyed the Germans. Anyway, that was the plan, so I'm told. I've seen this said in a number of german memoirs-the Americans didn't "fight fair", i.e. they relied on arty and air support to plaster the germans rather then take casualties in infantry assaults. Lets say a US infantry battalion takes a hill. The Germans counterattack with a crack infantry battalion. Superbly trained, combat experienced leaders, latest equipment...MG42s, Sturmgewehrs. The best, you name it: Waffen SS, panzergrenadier, fallschirmjager...whoeever. The US battalion commander on teh hill yells at his FSO, who bucks the request up to the Divarty Chief, and it goes up fast, silence is consent, perfect US comms, and the King of Battle up on his throne says, "OK My Son, your wishes are granted. Hulk Smash"...or whatever cool things he says. "15 minutes of division priority of fire." Here's what you get: One infantry division x four artillery battalions x18 guns per battalion x3 rounds per minute per gun x15 minutes (I made that up) =3240 mostly 105mm and some 155mm shells, or Give or take, 80 tons of metal; EIGHT MILLION metal fragments. In fifteen minutes. With great accuracy. Troops in the open. There is no way in hell 400 German attackers are advancing through 8 million pieces of frag. The guys doing it could have been employees at Ford Motor Company: Map surveyors, commo guys, signal radio men, truck drivers, gun crews, math geeks in the FDCs. They will take no casualties and 30 minutes later they could do it again. All day, every day. The moral center of gravity, if you will, of the US Army for the last 80 years has been that core of people. The ability to do that whenever we want. Its not fair. 'Merica. We kill with HE. Lol, "Hulk Smash" |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:17:33 AM EDT
[#37]
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:19:32 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Ukrainian drone hitting a Russian MLRS and a T tank, both look like kills. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/uv83m1/ukrainian_dronedropped_munition_strikes_on_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 You could tell that one was money from the moment it dropped. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:20:49 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CenterMass762: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/501509/20210629_221758_jpg-2391965.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/501509/Screenshot_20220521-143238_Gallery_jpg-2391964.JPG ~80 pounds of steel. Great pics, I now want a 155mm shell as an umbrella stand. 
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GA, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:22:49 AM EDT
[#40]
Where does Russia stand on the world stage after all this?
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:24:40 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Aikibiker: It is funnier when they let the Russians build the bridge, then wipe out an entire BTG while they are trying to cross it. Wondering if it would be a good strategy to let them get a bridge completed, and then destroy it, along with all the personnel and equipment assembled in one place to cross. Seems they would wipe out more important resources that way. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:27:43 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnka871: Lol how many men and equipment are they willing to sacrifice to cross this Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnka871: Originally Posted By M-1975:
Lol how many men and equipment are they willing to sacrifice to cross this Russia fights like its WWI so...a bunch... |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:35:09 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By nocomply: Where does Russia stand on the world stage after all this? The answer to that is exactly why “who will replace Putin” is a bullshit question. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:35:57 AM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:38:14 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: Czech MLRS RM-70
40 round mag
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:38:55 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By CharlieR: ... Its not fair. 'Merica. We kill with HE. I remember a comment from Vietnam that went something like, "I spent months humping hills, firing into the bush, dodging mortar rounds, and I looked over at the FO sitting on a stump eating chicken salad and realized he could do more in 3 minutes than I could do in my lifetime. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:46:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#47]
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USA
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:46:40 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By xd675: I think that a primary defense objective fit any nation sharing a border with Russia should be obtaining weapons that could hit the Moscow and St. Petersburg areas to force Russia to think about any war instantly involving their citizens. Having the resources to hit Moscow and St. Petersburg is much different than having the balls to actually do it. Not saying they are off limits, but massive game changer regardless of the shooter. Has any country ever bombed the capital and/or major city of a nuclear armed country? |
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:46:48 AM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 5/22/2022 9:47:30 AM EDT
[#50]
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