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Posted: 7/31/2022 10:58:55 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is the difference between the imported by Zenith MKE’s and the US made Zeniths? I mean other then the obvious. The original Zenith imports were make by MKE in Turkey in a state-run, facility on HK tooling which was supposedly purchased in the 80’s or 90’s and “proofed” by HK semi-annually. I don’t know how much of the proofing thing is BS or if it stopped at some point. I’ve got a K-PDW model from them and it’s flawless. The new ones are made in the USA on non-HK machines. I would think that unfinished flats are imported, bent, and welded up, since that’s cheaper. I’ve seen tooling marks on the bolts, but I wouldn’t hesitate to buy one. Zenith has generally been a good company to deal with and has a reputation for taking care of customers. Long story short, the Century AP5 and old MKE are both Turkish HKs; it’s even hard to really consider them clones. PTRs and new Zenith are US-based clones. POF…I have no idea. Good reputation for reliability, but not as refined as the others. PTRs are also pretty nice but are getting squeezed by these cheap imports. |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 11:08:29 AM EDT
[#2]
Hope this is not a daft question but when you guys refer to POF regarding HK clones........
Are you talking about Pakistan Ordnance Factories or Patriot Ordnance Factory ? |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 11:12:47 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hope this is not a daft question but when you guys refer to POF regarding HK clones........ Are you talking about Pakistan Ordnance Factories or Patriot Ordnance Factory ? The former. |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 11:36:17 AM EDT
[#4]
Thanks.
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Posted: 7/31/2022 2:17:04 PM EDT
[#5]
Where can I acquire that shoulder rig? I need one.
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Posted: 7/31/2022 2:27:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As well as fully licensed by H&K. Manufacturing licenses generally specify how the item is made, dimensions, and materials as well as quality etc, They were licensed and provided equipment back in the 60's. They are no longer licensed by H&K and haven't been for a long time. There is a lot of confusion out there on this. |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 2:29:42 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Long story short, the Century AP5 and old MKE are both Turkish HKs; it’s even hard to really consider them clones. PTRs and new Zenith are US-based clones. POF…I have no idea. Good reputation for reliability, but not as refined as the others. PTRs are also pretty nice but are getting squeezed by these cheap imports. POF is similar to MKE in the fact that they were once licensed by H&K in Pakistan and made on the same equipment. Neither MKE nor POF have any current licensing agreements with H&K. |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 2:30:19 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hope this is not a daft question but when you guys refer to POF regarding HK clones........ Are you talking about Pakistan Ordnance Factories or Patriot Ordnance Factory ? They are referring to Pakistan Ordnance Factory. |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 4:06:52 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The original Zenith imports were make by MKE in Turkey in a state-run, facility on HK tooling which was supposedly purchased in the 80’s or 90’s and “proofed” by HK semi-annually. I don’t know how much of the proofing thing is BS or if it stopped at some point. I’ve got a K-PDW model from them and it’s flawless. The new ones are made in the USA on non-HK machines. I would think that unfinished flats are imported, bent, and welded up, since that’s cheaper. I’ve seen tooling marks on the bolts, but I wouldn’t hesitate to buy one. Zenith has generally been a good company to deal with and has a reputation for taking care of customers. Long story short, the Century AP5 and old MKE are both Turkish HKs; it’s even hard to really consider them clones. PTRs and new Zenith are US-based clones. POF…I have no idea. Good reputation for reliability, but not as refined as the others. PTRs are also pretty nice but are getting squeezed by these cheap imports. From what I've been told by friend who owns a POF they are also licensed machinery just in Pakistan instead of turkey. His POF (from like 6 years ago or something) feels fine and operates great, did NOT have mag wobble (their mag catch was properly sized). No real issues with his, I just dont like the 60's style metal lower and their paint job, otherwise They should be nearly as good as MKE (who i have a gut feeling are just a hair better). I've heard rumors online that POF can be hit or miss.. So far the MKE's i've purchased (2) and other peoples i've seen pick up in the gun store (3-4) not one has been bad or returned.. Any gun manufacture can put out less than perfect guns (even HK GASP!!!) It might just be slightly more common with POF or even MKE then it would be with HK. |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 6:07:06 PM EDT
[#10]
Will it work with an HK trigger pack?
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Posted: 7/31/2022 7:43:16 PM EDT
[#11]
For those going the SBR route, what US parts are you using to stay 922r compliant?
If I can’t do it on the cheap, I may go the AOW route with a forward grip and a single point bungee sling. |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 7:50:31 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For those going the SBR route, what US parts are you using to stay 922r compliant? If I can’t do it on the cheap, I may go the AOW route with a forward grip and a single point bungee sling. Quote HistoryQuoted: For those going the SBR route, what US parts are you using to stay 922r compliant? If I can’t do it on the cheap, I may go the AOW route with a forward grip and a single point bungee sling. Receiver, Barrel, Trunion, Bolt, Bolt Carrier, Cocking Handle, Trigger, Housing, Trigger, Hammer, Sear, Buttstock, Pistol Grip, Forearm / Handguard, Magazine Housing, Magazine Follower, and Magazine Floorplates. |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 8:00:54 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryGuess they got a shitload of screen doors... |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 8:05:05 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are the chambers fluted on the AP5? Does the AP5 bolt carrier have tungsten filings loose inside to act as a buffer like the original HK? Yes on flutes. No idea about the tungsten |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 8:15:30 PM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 7/31/2022 8:16:37 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistorySick bro. |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 10:04:28 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryIs that HK33 on the bottom??... sooon.... soon... |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 10:12:42 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes on flutes. No idea about the tungsten If you disassemble for field stripping and shake the carrier near your ear you can usually hear the filings move. |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 10:20:29 PM EDT
[#19]
I'm holding out for sub-$1k on the AP5-P. If it hits $999, I'll be forced to buy.
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Posted: 7/31/2022 10:26:52 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you disassemble for field stripping and shake the carrier near your ear you can usually hear the filings move. 
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Posted: 7/31/2022 10:33:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bullshit. I'm at nearly 2,000 rounds since I bought mine in May. Suppressed and unsuppressed. There's nothing wrong with it and there's nothing cosmetically flawed with it. And any cosmetic flaws on mine is because I actually take it out and use it. I heard nothing but raves about POF before I bought mine (I wanted a Zenith, but they were unobtanium at that time; in retrospect, I should have just waited). Aside from the canted sights which were supposedly corrected after the initial production runs, mine was also a jam-o-matic. It's the only gun I've ever bought that I regretted and consider a total POS. Maybe I just got a lemon or it was an early version that just happened to get mixed in with later, "fixed" examples. I feel it was some kind of retribution from the fates for deigning to buy a firearm from Pakistan. :D I don't know that I'll ever bring myself to spend that much money on a 'range toy' again. I certainly would not part with the dough required for an HK SP5. Maybe someday I'll get over it, but until then, my Ruger PCC (like most Rugers, it's kind of ugly but it's a tank) will have to do for my pistol caliber carbine fun. |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 10:42:11 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can confirm there is some kind of powdered material sloshing around in my AP5 carrier. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you disassemble for field stripping and shake the carrier near your ear you can usually hear the filings move. Thanks! |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 10:48:19 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm holding out for sub-$1k on the AP5-P. If it hits $999, I'll be forced to buy. Don't worry, If I buy one in a few months, the price will take a big drop shortly after, just like it did with my Scorpion and AR9...
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Posted: 7/31/2022 11:10:37 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For those going the SBR route, what US parts are you using to stay 922r compliant? If I can’t do it on the cheap, I may go the AOW route with a forward grip and a single point bungee sling. I did trigger, sear, hammer, cocking handle, mag base plates and will get a US handguard once my stamp comes. Cost was a little over $120 not including the handguard. Stock will run about $160. I’ll eventually get a MAD bolt head and not worry about getting more base plates when I get more mags. You could also get the US trigger cage if they ever get back in stock. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 8:01:28 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I heard nothing but raves about POF before I bought mine (I wanted a Zenith, but they were unobtanium at that time; in retrospect, I should have just waited). Aside from the canted sights which were supposedly corrected after the initial production runs, mine was also a jam-o-matic. It's the only gun I've ever bought that I regretted and consider a total POS. Maybe I just got a lemon or it was an early version that just happened to get mixed in with later, "fixed" examples. I feel it was some kind of retribution from the fates for deigning to buy a firearm from Pakistan. :D I don't know that I'll ever bring myself to spend that much money on a 'range toy' again. I certainly would not part with the dough required for an HK SP5. Maybe someday I'll get over it, but until then, my Ruger PCC (like most Rugers, it's kind of ugly but it's a tank) will have to do for my pistol caliber carbine fun. You are referring to the POF guns...we are talking MEK, so I can only talk about my experience with the AP5. I would have no hesitation in using mine for any type of situation. I've run enough through it-now just at 3k since the weekend, that I know it can be trusted. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 8:24:22 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm holding out for sub-$1k on the AP5-P. If it hits $999, I'll be forced to buy. I hope not, I’ll have to buy another one. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 8:25:41 AM EDT
[#27]
If you don’t want to spend that much, look at a KP-9…….and get your Vityaz on
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Posted: 8/1/2022 10:34:16 AM EDT
[#28]
This thread has inspired me to get one for the wife, but I'm unfamiliar with the platform.
She's decent with a pistol, but I think she would be much more effective with a pdw. Someone help me with a shopping list? I'd like it short, optics ready, folding stock, and ultimately suppressed. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 11:02:33 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread has inspired me to get one for the wife, but I'm unfamiliar with the platform. She's decent with a pistol, but I think she would be much more effective with a pdw. Someone help me with a shopping list? I'd like it short, optics ready, folding stock, and ultimately suppressed. It comes as a pistol, so no stock and no VFG. You'll have to SBR it to add both of those. For folding stocks, there is the classic HK/Choate PDW folder or the B&T one which has a UMP-esque look . That's just a few options, there's a ton out there, braces too. Just make sure you look at stocks for the "K" type receiver if you get that model, the mounting setup to the gun is different than the full size MP5 type receiver. All of these are semi-optics ready. They have mounting bosses on the top of the receiver that's H&K's old clamp mount system. There are many options now for picatinny rails that mount to the clamp interface and open you up to any modern optics. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 11:28:18 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The AP5-P model is the "MP5K" model with the exposed barrel allowing mounting a can. It comes as a pistol, so no stock and no VFG. You'll have to SBR it to add both of those. For folding stocks, there is the classic HK/Choate PDW folder or the B&T one which has a UMP-esque look . That's just a few options, there's a ton out there, braces too. Just make sure you look at stocks for the "K" type receiver if you get that model, the mounting setup to the gun is different than the full size MP5 type receiver. All of these are semi-optics ready. They have mounting bosses on the top of the receiver that's H&K's old clamp mount system. There are many options now for picatinny rails that mount to the clamp interface and open you up to any modern optics. Thanks! Good info. I was about to click the buy on this package: https://atlanticfirearms.com/century-ap5-p-pistol-w-sb-brace-and-sms-optic I watched the vid concerning the optic. I'm not a gunsmith and I'm not sure I have anyone locally that I'd trust. I'm not too familiar with clamp style stuff. Can you lend a little more detail on an easy way to set up the gun? Also - Is there a light option on the short configuration that I want? Thanks again. We are going to be homesteading on 10 acres and I want her to have something light that she's confident with and willing to tote around. ETA: I'm in a YT rabbit hole now and finding some options. ETA2: Is the fitment going to be identical as an MP5?  MP5k: Front Sight Tower Rail Mount |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 11:41:05 AM EDT
[#31]
Do the clamp style mounts for the MP5 scratch the receiver in any way? I assume it would since the only way would be to 'clamp' on the small top portion.
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Posted: 8/1/2022 11:59:50 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks! Good info. I was about to click the buy on this package: https://atlanticfirearms.com/century-ap5-p-pistol-w-sb-brace-and-sms-optic I watched the vid concerning the optic. I'm not a gunsmith and I'm not sure I have anyone locally that I'd trust. I'm not too familiar with clamp style stuff. Can you lend a little more detail on an easy way to set up the gun? Also - Is there a light option on the short configuration that I want? Thanks again. We are going to be homesteading on 10 acres and I want her to have something light that she's confident with and willing to tote around. ETA: I'm in a YT rabbit hole now and finding some options. ETA2: Is the fitment going to be identical as an MP5?  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCEe2q3q07kQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The AP5-P model is the "MP5K" model with the exposed barrel allowing mounting a can. It comes as a pistol, so no stock and no VFG. You'll have to SBR it to add both of those. For folding stocks, there is the classic HK/Choate PDW folder or the B&T one which has a UMP-esque look . That's just a few options, there's a ton out there, braces too. Just make sure you look at stocks for the "K" type receiver if you get that model, the mounting setup to the gun is different than the full size MP5 type receiver. All of these are semi-optics ready. They have mounting bosses on the top of the receiver that's H&K's old clamp mount system. There are many options now for picatinny rails that mount to the clamp interface and open you up to any modern optics. Thanks! Good info. I was about to click the buy on this package: https://atlanticfirearms.com/century-ap5-p-pistol-w-sb-brace-and-sms-optic I watched the vid concerning the optic. I'm not a gunsmith and I'm not sure I have anyone locally that I'd trust. I'm not too familiar with clamp style stuff. Can you lend a little more detail on an easy way to set up the gun? Also - Is there a light option on the short configuration that I want? Thanks again. We are going to be homesteading on 10 acres and I want her to have something light that she's confident with and willing to tote around. ETA: I'm in a YT rabbit hole now and finding some options. ETA2: Is the fitment going to be identical as an MP5? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCEe2q3q07kI would say consider the fullsize for the following reasons More brace/stock choices, as well as handguards and light set ups Adding lights and optics really crowds up a K version, the fullsize lets you have lots of room for manipulating the CH. The fullsize is more pleasant to shoot (but not by a whole lot), and is easier to suppress (though the k is by no means difficult) The K is shorter, but the fullsize is still able to fit in lots of bags |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 12:05:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do the clamp style mounts for the MP5 scratch the receiver in any way? I assume it would since the only way would be to 'clamp' on the small top portion. On the underside of the lugs, yes. Very hard to see |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 12:15:35 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would say consider the fullsize for the following reasons More brace/stock choices, as well as handguards and light set ups Adding lights and optics really crowds up a K version, the fullsize lets you have lots of room for manipulating the CH. The fullsize is more pleasant to shoot (but not by a whole lot), and is easier to suppress (though the k is by no means difficult) The K is shorter, but the fullsize is still able to fit in lots of bags I'm a little torn. It will be a full time suppressor host for a can than should be out of jail within a couple months. I'd really like to keep the OAL down. The light mount I linked looks intuitive and clean. I'm trying to find a sloped claw clamp...I was thinking an aimpoint or romeo optic. If I can sort out a retractable brace, I think I'm set. If I can't, I could go the sbr route for a folder. Thanks for your thoughts. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 12:28:41 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I watched the vid concerning the optic. I'm not a gunsmith and I'm not sure I have anyone locally that I'd trust. I'm not too familiar with clamp style stuff. Can you lend a little more detail on an easy way to set up the gun? One thing to keep in mind with optics mounted on the K models, you'll probably end up with the front of the optic uncomfortably close to the rear-most travel point of the charging handle, so just be careful there that you do make it too cramped, or worse case end up smashing your thumb into the optic or rail while racking the handle, been there done that. For mounting lights, you're limited a bit by the small size of the foregrip and requirement to keep the charging handle area clear. My personal preference would be the Midwest Industries MLok rail and something like a small scout light mounted on the 2:30 position. You could still mount an MLok VFG to it and depending on how flexibly you are, either reach the tailcap with your thumb, or otherwise use a remote pad or button where comfortable. There's a few ways to accomplish this though, keep looking around for videos and such to see what others have come up with. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 12:31:22 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm a little torn. It will be a full time suppressor host for a can than should be out of jail within a couple months. I'd really like to keep the OAL down. The light mount I linked looks intuitive and clean. I'm trying to find a sloped claw clamp...I was thinking an aimpoint or romeo optic. If I can sort out a retractable brace, I think I'm set. If I can't, I could go the sbr route for a folder. Thanks for your thoughts. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 12:35:26 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks! Good info. I was about to click the buy on this package: https://atlanticfirearms.com/century-ap5-p-pistol-w-sb-brace-and-sms-optic I watched the vid concerning the optic. I'm not a gunsmith and I'm not sure I have anyone locally that I'd trust. I'm not too familiar with clamp style stuff. Can you lend a little more detail on an easy way to set up the gun? Also - Is there a light option on the short configuration that I want? Thanks again. We are going to be homesteading on 10 acres and I want her to have something light that she's confident with and willing to tote around. ETA: I'm in a YT rabbit hole now and finding some options. ETA2: Is the fitment going to be identical as an MP5? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCEe2q3q07kOr you could go the PTR route they have welded on pic rails on top (Hate that myself as i like classic look). If you go AP5-P, you may wana just get the standard model that has 200$ rebate, you get a clip on pic rail included, as well as flash hider, and sometimes can get a pistol brace (which you're getting for like 50 bucks more instead of the 200 they cost). |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 12:43:17 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm a little torn. It will be a full time suppressor host for a can than should be out of jail within a couple months. I'd really like to keep the OAL down. The light mount I linked looks intuitive and clean. I'm trying to find a sloped claw clamp...I was thinking an aimpoint or romeo optic. If I can sort out a retractable brace, I think I'm set. If I can't, I could go the sbr route for a folder. Thanks for your thoughts. Your reasoning makes sense. I will say there is nothing more intuitive than a surefire integrated handguard, or the B&T version. I saw this awhile ago. https://www.m8industriesllc.net/new-products/hk-mp5-sight-base-pic-rail-optic-mount No experience with them, but looks beat |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 12:50:59 PM EDT
[#39]
Thanks for the help everyone...I feel like I've highjacked the thread!
Some day I'll learn to multi quote. https://atlanticfirearms.com/century-ap5-p-pistol-w-sb-brace-and-sms-optic https://atlanticfirearms.com/century-arms-ap5-p-9mm-pistol-mke-turkey The first link is oos. The 2nd is available and I can add the folding brace. Its the same gun right? The 1st says AP5-P pistol. The 2nd is just AP5-P 9mm pistol. Sorry about all the questions, but once I decide to add a gun, it completely distracts me until I click "buy". |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 12:55:02 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the help everyone...I feel like I've highjacked the thread! Some day I'll learn to multi quote. https://atlanticfirearms.com/century-ap5-p-pistol-w-sb-brace-and-sms-optic https://atlanticfirearms.com/century-arms-ap5-p-9mm-pistol-mke-turkey The first link is oos. The 2nd is available and I can add the folding brace. Its the same gun right? The 1st says AP5-P pistol. The 2nd is just AP5-P 9mm pistol. Sorry about all the questions, but once I decide to add a gun, it completely distracts me until I click "buy". Same gun, the first one comes with a cheap MRDS |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 12:56:42 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your reasoning makes sense. I will say there is nothing more intuitive than a surefire integrated handguard, or the B&T version. I saw this awhile ago. https://www.m8industriesllc.net/new-products/hk-mp5-sight-base-pic-rail-optic-mount No experience with them, but looks beat This is the way for a women and kids gun. Full size, surefire handguard, red dot. Easy mode. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 1:06:15 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same gun, the first one comes with a cheap MRDS It's on the way. Time for light, optic, clamp thingy, sling and more mags. I really should have gone to work today. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 1:19:59 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's on the way. Time for light, optic, clamp thingy, sling and more mags. I really should have gone to work today. It should come with a copy of the Hk 3 point sling. It's not as good as the real thing, and the real thing isn't that great to begin with, but it is useable |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 1:47:21 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that HK33 on the bottom??... sooon.... soon... Let's hope... |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 4:03:28 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let's hope... Its supposedly coming :) and the G3... they need to hurry up!! :) |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 6:17:09 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that HK33 on the bottom??... sooon.... soon... It's an SBR'd Zenith Z-43P |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 6:50:51 PM EDT
[#47]
Can anyone identify the claw mount @1:47 ??
 Century Arms AP5-P Review (MP5K SP5k clone) and Field Strip with 80 Degree locking piece install And what size riser do you guys like for a red dot? |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 7:05:21 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can anyone identify the claw mount @1:47 ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN1OrCIwapcAnd what size riser do you guys like for a red dot? I've got a Sig Romeo 5 on mine and think it's perfect. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 7:11:16 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can anyone identify the claw mount @1:47 ?? For something like that mount or similar height, a micro red dot like he has there in a standard "low" mount will give you a sight picture where just the top 1/3 or so of the front sight hood is in the lower 1/3 of the optic window, so you're seeing over the irons. Some companies make ultra low rail or direct mounts that allow you to fully cowitness with the irons, but IMO these kinda suck due to how busy the irons are on the MP5, it just looks too distracting to me. |
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Posted: 8/1/2022 7:23:49 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can anyone identify the claw mount @1:47 ?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN1OrCIwapcAnd what size riser do you guys like for a red dot? Looks like the one that comes with the gun. I tried a few red dots, a PRO, sparcAR, an MRO, and even a few prisms, but none really clicked. The irons work great up close. I'd like to try an RMR or equivalent |
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