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Posted: 10/15/2004 10:24:32 AM EST
Have any of you heard of a new bullet developed that when it penetrates body armor, it flares/splits and cuts into the kevlar, making a much larger entry hole in the vest (5 - 6 inches) than a conventional expanding/soft/ballistic/tip?

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:25:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By Carabinero1979:
Have any of you heard of a new bullet developed that when it penetrates body armor, it flares/splits and cuts into the kevlar, making a much larger entry hole in the vest (5 - 6 inches) than a conventional expanding/soft/ballistic/tip?




No...
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:26:28 AM EST
Argulia IQ series?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:28:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:30:22 AM EST
Sounds like the P90 5.7 round.

<­BR>



Not!
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:31:32 AM EST
blended metal voodoo?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:32:57 AM EST
Just about any rifle round will go thru a bullet proof vest.

SGatr15
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:33:02 AM EST
It can penetrate body armor?

Is it called the 7.62x39?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:33:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
This is so gonna go downhill.......



And fast...
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:33:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
This is so gonna go downhill.......



Yeah huh...
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:33:54 AM EST
1) Terrorist can barely fire their weapons, development of an armor piercing bullet that is super destructive is well beyond their capability.

2) There are rounds that go though body armor and make a big SURFACE wound. It will look nasty, it probably would hurt alot. However the odds of it doing LETHAL damage is minimal.

3) Said rounds AFAIK have not been developed for the calibers the AK series uses.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:34:22 AM EST
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:35:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 11:01:03 AM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
It can penetrate body armor?

Is it called the 7.62x39?



Which can't penetrate current US-issue armor reliabily....

Oh, and there's no such thing as a 'terrorist developed bullet' -> terrorists don't make their own guns & ammo...
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:35:56 AM EST
Spray it with teflon to make it even more deadly.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:41:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
This is so gonna go downhill.......



+1
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:42:18 AM EST

Originally Posted By Strats:
Spray it with teflon to make it even more deadly.



+1
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:43:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By Strats:
Spray it with teflon to make it even more deadly.



This kills me. I've had people try to convince me with 100% certainty that it will make bullets penetrate vests.

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:43:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 10:48:20 AM EST by Fat_McNasty]
This is not terrorist developed but I have seen it do the deed to the vests.

http://www.packing.org/news/article.jsp/6005
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:47:36 AM EST
Not trying to start anything here, but terrorist could PAY someone to develop a special round...unlikely as that is.


ByteTheBullet (-:
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:47:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 10:48:24 AM EST by Dolomite]
I heard that the Aguila rounds penetrating kevlar was bullshit? I thought it was a LE type of urban legend?

You've seen them go through?
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:48:28 AM EST
IIRC, most of our guys over there are wearing a vest that includes both soft panels and hard ceramic/metal/kevlar plates, which generally stop most things short of a .50

That said, the tangos making fancy new boolets... not bloodly likely
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 10:51:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
I heard that the Aguila rounds penetrating kevlar was bullshit? I thought it was a LE type of urban legend?

You've seen them go through?



YES!! Was tested buy local law inforcement 9mm 40 and 45 all penitrated. There was a couple that failed to open in gelitan. But punched nifty holes!
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:00:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/15/2004 11:02:53 AM EST by Dolomite]
I purchased a couple boxes of this stuff, and I really wasn't very impressed.

Doesn't Natchez still sell the Aguila? They couldn't leagally do that if the handgun ammo defeated BA.

From Farnam:

23 Feb 03

From an LEO friend in WI:


"We recently acquired some Mexican Aguila "IQ" 9mm rounds. They are a 65 gr HP. We heard that they would penetrate soft body armor, so we tested them. We shot them into fifteen-year-old, retired Second Chance vests. We used a Taurus pistol with a five-inch barrel. Range was three meters.

No penetration. Not even close. Only the first two layers were penetrated, and deformation was minimal. This old vest also stopped a dozen other brands of 9mm rounds we shot at it, including all American manufacturers."

Lesson: Don't get excited about any of the "magic bullet" rumors that periodically circulate. No one has repealed any laws of physics recently.

/John



And I know people here generally don't like Dean Spier - so don't shoot the messenger:
www.thegunzone.com/aguila-iq.html#update
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:10:54 AM EST
Sounds like the fantasy round being marketed by Le Mas. It puts on one helluva show when fired into ballistic gel or sides of beef, but the developer won't let anyone independently test it or even examine a specimen. In short, the developer is full of shi'ite and is afraid to let anyone closely inspect the ammo.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:12:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By Dolomite:
I purchased a couple boxes of this stuff, and I really wasn't very impressed.

Doesn't Natchez still sell the Aguila? They couldn't leagally do that if the handgun ammo defeated BA.


FALSE

For armor to be considered 'Armor Piercing', it would have to be over a certain percent-content of certain metals...

The mere ability to defeat BA is not enough to make the ammo 'AP'
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:12:20 AM EST
Here's the guy tht developed the new round


Here is a picture of the new round. As you can see, It looks like a fish until it
enters the body armor, it then morphs into a projectile resembling a banana.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:13:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
I purchased a couple boxes of this stuff, and I really wasn't very impressed.

Doesn't Natchez still sell the Aguila? They couldn't leagally do that if the handgun ammo defeated BA.

From Farnam:

23 Feb 03

From an LEO friend in WI:


"We recently acquired some Mexican Aguila "IQ" 9mm rounds. They are a 65 gr HP. We heard that they would penetrate soft body armor, so we tested them. We shot them into fifteen-year-old, retired Second Chance vests. We used a Taurus pistol with a five-inch barrel. Range was three meters.

No penetration. Not even close. Only the first two layers were penetrated, and deformation was minimal. This old vest also stopped a dozen other brands of 9mm rounds we shot at it, including all American manufacturers."

Lesson: Don't get excited about any of the "magic bullet" rumors that periodically circulate. No one has repealed any laws of physics recently.

/John



And I know people here generally don't like Dean Spier - so don't shoot the messenger:
www.thegunzone.com/aguila-iq.html#update



Dont know if they do or not.
They were using a 9mm storm here. I saw the vest. It went threw the front. I personally was not there at the firing. But the guys that pulled the triggers are 2 of my best no bs customers (also sheriff/state popo). They would not lie about it. Actully they were pretty excited about it. I would vouch for these guys credibility!
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:34:36 AM EST
Maybe they are using those evil Black Talons remember how we were told they were so bad

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:43:32 AM EST
Lets say you ARE wearing body armor WITH plates, and someone shoots you with a 50 Caliber from a Barrett. You and your shoes will part company, son.
Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:43:45 AM EST
I hate to keep bringing this up, but I honestly think that blended metal technology in bullets is often overstated and it's alleged abilities may take wing on their own :

www.gunweek.com/2000/feature0601.html

Aguila Test Results
We tested these loads at length, not only on the range but also for performance on light sheet metal and other light cover. The results were very interesting. First, we established that these loads are no danger to bullet-resistant body armor or steel reaction targets. The bullets penetrate no more than any other .45 load in standard vest material and probably less than most. Against steel reaction plates, they break up normally.

Link Posted: 10/15/2004 11:57:00 AM EST

Originally Posted By Dolomite:
I hate to keep bringing this up, but I honestly think that blended metal technology in bullets is often overstated and it's alleged abilities may take wing on their own :



Very true I have been swaging copper/tungsten powder bullets for the last year now. The only thing I have found is I can make a Light fast bullet or a short heavy one. As for the metal matrix stuff. I have not been able to reproduce any of what that guy has done. I can make fast AP round or a Wicked Fraging round but not both. They are just not cost effective to make either. They take more time and the tungsten wears the shit out of the dies.
But my god you should see the prarrie dogs EXPLODE!
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