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Posted: 7/9/2001 8:33:33 AM EST
In the process of filling out my "State of New York Pistol/Revolver License Application" and had this ever-so-important question. Being that the only permit to do anything in NY is the [i]Carry Concealed[/i] permit. (The other two are Premises only and Occupational) Here is my quandry. Since I'm an average Joe in Orange County, do I put the ever so politically correct "Target and Hunting" as the justification, or try for the "Unrestricted" by adding "Self-Defense" to the list. My fear is that trying for an unrestricted will PO the licensing Judge and I will end up with nothing. NY shooters, help me please.....! Apex Newburgh, NY
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 8:43:11 AM EST
It doesn't hurt to put down "for all lawful purposes", "hunting, target practice and self-defense" or whatever. The judge will probably restrict it regardless of what you put down, depending on the county. You wont be screwing yourself out of a permit by putting down self defense. Don't limit yourself. tcsd1236 Ithaca NY
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 8:43:47 AM EST
hey apex! i live across the bridge from you! anyway, all my friends/family applied for the permits using 4 words: target-shooting, collecting, hiking, hunting. they all got unrestricted carry with the max of three guns per license. good luck!
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 8:55:03 AM EST
Hey you guys! I live in Wappingers Falls. I have been thinking about getting a pistol license. How does the unresticted carry work? Do I have to apply for that seperately? If I get i, does it mean that I can carry the pistol anywhere I go within the county? Also, where do you guys go shoot your ARs?
Link Posted: 7/9/2001 9:05:27 AM EST
hey Kin! eat at Hudson's Rib and Fish lately??? i went for a Dutchess county permit, but couldn't get 4 signatures!!! its not that i'm shady, its just that i don't even know 1 person ( they have to LIVE in Dutchess )! sad, but i'm moving to PA to go class III anyway. go to the Poughkeepsie sheriff's dept, and pay $10.00. they'll give you the permit application with all the rules. when it's issued, you can carry anywhere in New York, except NYC. just by applying, it is understood that you want unrestricted carry. the issuing JUDGE decides what you will be "bumped down" to ie: limited to 1 gun on permit, OWNERSHIP only (no carry), etc. good luck to you too! BTW, i go to Ulster County for ALL my shooting needs!
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 3:44:31 AM EST
Also, where do you guys go shoot your ARs?
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I do most of my AR shooting in Peekskill - I'm a member of the Hudson Valley Highpower league, we shoot on Camp Smith twice a month at 200, 300, and 600 yards.. It's fun!.. More info check with NYSRPA State HP Rifle Co-ordinator, Ray Carney. ABNSF@MSN.Com
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 3:50:54 AM EST
fattyM - I guess you are saying that your friends and family are from Orange, and you slipped over the beacon bridge later.. Hence not knowing enough people in Dutchess... My story is I moved up from Joisey - Where I used to have a pistol (no carry) . And had to ditch it because I couldn't get the 4 character refrences in Orange within the 12 months the sherrif would hold my beloved Beretta 96 for... So I traded it for the downpayment on my AR. Now I have enough people to get the 4 refrences (I think) and I'm trying for it again. It only took 2.5 years...
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 4:03:30 AM EST
Hey guys. I'm in Fishkill, Dutchess County NY. When I got my permit in '88 I was told the only type NYS offers is a full carry concealed/unconcealed. The premise permit is for people who have restrictions on their permit moving into the state from another state. That is what the sheriff county clerk told me three weeks ago also when I got another gun to put on my permit. So target shooting is good enough and you will get a full carry permit.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 4:16:18 AM EST
Apex, they are from Ulster county actually, but yeah, i moved up from NYC (this time around) not knowing a soul. IIRC, the Orange county judges are pretty easy-going like in ulster, my side of the river? don't know. thanx for the link! i'm gonna check it out, maybe we'll be shootin' together! Flashbang!, yeah, i doubt they will restrict a permit, but i think they can, but like i said, i have never heard of it happening. really, nobody should have much of a problem.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 5:58:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By Flashbang!: Hey guys. I'm in Fishkill, Dutchess County NY. When I got my permit in '88 I was told the only type NYS offers is a full carry concealed/unconcealed. The premise permit is for people who have restrictions on their permit moving into the state from another state. That is what the sheriff county clerk told me three weeks ago also when I got another gun to put on my permit. So target shooting is good enough and you will get a full carry permit.
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It`s diferent in every county..........permit is valid statewide...........depends on the judge, your justification AND what the general consensus is in that county at the given time..........
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 6:07:29 AM EST
You could go the law-enforcement route and join the PD, then you can carry the shield and pistol anywhere you please...of course there are minor drawbacks: low pay(considering the risks), low morale, crazy work hours, unappreciative public. On second thought good luck with your application. This NYC LEO feels an armed society is a polite one!
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 8:42:27 AM EST
I eat cheap so I eat at Micky Ds. I heard that Dutchess is still pretty handgun friendly. My FFL dealer (East Coast Personal Protection in Poughkeepsie) has handgun training courses. He said that he will have a well known instructor teach a rifle course next year. Let me know if you need the store's number and I will look it up. The dealer said that he is joining a gun club in Lloyd and then sponsor me in. If that doesn't work out, I will try Knights in Goshen. Can't believe how hard it is to find a place to shoot.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 12:32:10 PM EST
Glad to see more people from NY! Apex>> I'm in Orange County also (Warwick)! I got my pistol permit a couple of years ago. Took about 6 months for the paperwork to go through. I got a restricted permit, but thinking about applying for an un-restricted. Kin>> Knight's Range is a great place. George Knight , the owner, is a great guy. I shoot there all the time. I have also bought alot of guns from him in the past. He just got a Browning 1919 belt fed in .308 as a range gun you can rent. They were setting it up the last time I was there and they let me shoot a couple rounds for free. They are waiting for the linking machine to come in to make some .308 belts. Nice range and GREAT people! If you guys ever want to get together at Knight's for some shooting, let me know.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 1:56:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By M203: Glad to see more people from NY! Kin>> Knight's Range is a great place. George Knight , the owner, is a great guy. I shoot there all the time. I have also bought alot of guns from him in the past. He just got a Browning 1919 belt fed in .308 as a range gun you can rent. They were setting it up the last time I was there and they let me shoot a couple rounds for free. They are waiting for the linking machine to come in to make some .308 belts. Nice range and GREAT people! If you guys ever want to get together at Knight's for some shooting, let me know.
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Another AR15.com member sent me info on the Knight's Range....how far is it (drivetime)from Suffolk County Long Island and directions please?
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 4:04:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/10/2001 4:05:21 PM EST by rkbar15]
HOW TO GET A PISTOL LICENSE IN ORANGE COUNTY, NEW YORK: [url]http://webusers.warwick.net/~u1028604/ploc.htm#STEP%202,%20WHEN%20AND%20WHERE%20TO%20TUR­N%20IN%20YOUR[/url] [url]http://www.knightsrange.com/[/url] WaveR: Knights is about 2.5 hours from LIE x57 depending on traffic. Cross Island to the Throgs Neck to Hutch NB to 287 West to Tappan Zee Bridge to 87 NB to Rt. 17. Follow directions on Knights webpage from Rt. 17. If you want I'll e-mail you more specific directions. Let me know.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 5:06:00 PM EST
I put target shooting, hunting, collecting, and protection on my application. Chautauqua county still issues unrestricted permits with out much hassle
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 7:06:42 PM EST
What about a carry permit in Westchester County?Seems virtually impossible.
Link Posted: 7/10/2001 7:47:59 PM EST
Maybe we should form a support group for prospective applicants! I'm in a similar quandry I transferred to the Marine C-130 squadron at Stewart ANGB at the beginning of this year. I guess I'm somewhat fortunate that most of the people I worked with in Ft Worth TX for the last 5 years, are now my neighbors in New Windsor. I like the idea of getting together for a shoot with all of the other local correspondents!! Too bad I have to work this weekend :( , the reservists are drilling. Dave SSgtUSMC Stewart ANGB
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 1:03:20 AM EST
When I called Knights Range for a price it was $15.00 an hour to shoot. A little steep for my blood. http://www.knightsrange.com/
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 4:02:27 AM EST
My Dad lived in St Laurence county, unrestricted permit, no problem. He was later transfered to Cortland. The judge there dont issue permits. Eric
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 6:32:53 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 6:40:35 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 6:43:00 AM EST
Yes, I heard that Knights is $15 per hour, but supposedly, it's very nice there with automated targets. It's very hard finding other places to shoot. The last time I shot anything in Long Island, they limit you to one round at a time in the gun. Took all the fun out of the AR. How I wish I had a 200 acre spread and then I can shoot anytime I feel like it.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 6:54:08 AM EST
I applied for a Concealed Carry TARGET in Westchester when I bought a S+W .357 Mag 686 and got a target restriction on my permit.2 months later I purchased a Glock 27 .40S+W mini and when my permit got amended there were no restrictions on it.I now have a Full Concealed Carry permit for NY not including NY city.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 5:06:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By BigZ: What about a carry permit in Westchester County?Seems virtually impossible.
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Not necessarily true. Are you talking about an unrestricted carry permit or a premises permit?
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 5:12:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By Josey: I applied for a Concealed Carry TARGET in Westchester when I bought a S+W .357 Mag 686 and got a target restriction on my permit.2 months later I purchased a Glock 27 .40S+W mini and when my permit got amended there were no restrictions on it.I now have a Full Concealed Carry permit for NY not including NY city.
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It depends on the Judge. Years ago all carry permits were unrestricted. Some Judges will still issue unrestricted permits. It also depends on the investigator who submits the paperwork.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 5:16:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/11/2001 5:52:14 PM EST by rkbar15]
Originally Posted By ctrmass: My Dad lived in St Laurence county, unrestricted permit, no problem. He was later transfered to Cortland. The judge there dont issue permits. Eric
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Unless there is some compelling reason not to issue a permit the County must issue some type of permit. It may be restricted to target or hunting or employment related. There is also a procedure to transfer your current permit from one NY county to another as long as you are willing to accept the restrictions that are in effect in the original county.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 5:38:59 PM EST
Sorry if this is a dumb question but, when you say restricted to 3-4 on your permit does that mean you can only own 3-4 handguns total.I`m about to turn in my papers this week and was just wondering.If thats true I already have more than that on my to get list.That would realy suck.Also if I did get an unrestricted would I be able to own as many as I`d like.Thank you. KOG
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 5:51:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By KOG: Sorry if this is a dumb question but, when you say restricted to 3-4 on your permit does that mean you can only own 3-4 handguns total.I`m about to turn in my papers this week and was just wondering.If thats true I already have more than that on my to get list.That would realy suck.Also if I did get an unrestricted would I be able to own as many as I`d like.Thank you. KOG
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Every County in NY that issues permits has their own set of criteria and rules that they make up. The Judges also impose their own rules for issuing permits. There is no limit to the number of firearms you can list on your permit under NYS law. Some counties/Judges require that your premises be inspected for security purposes and that you have a safe after registering your fourth firearm.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 5:53:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/11/2001 5:51:52 PM EST by BigZ]
As posted by rkbar15 Not necessarily true. Are you talking about an unrestricted carry permit or a premises permit?
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I was referring to an unrestricted carry permit. A premise permit is not all that useful. An employment/business permit, that allows you to carry during the conduct of such is nice but not practical. What are you to do during non-working hours? I don't want to have to pretend I'm engaged in business at 2:30am. Josey, You're one Lucky Son of a Gun.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 6:03:32 PM EST
Originally Posted By BigZ:
As posted by rkbar15 Not necessarily true. Are you talking about an unrestricted carry permit or a premises permit?
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I was referring to an unrestricted carry permit. A premise permit is not all that useful. An employment/business permit, that allows you to carry during the conduct of such is nice but not practical. What are you to do during non-working hours? I don't want to have to pretend I'm engaged in business at 2:30am. Josey, You're one Lucky Son of a Gun.
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Keep in mind that any restrictions on your license are administrative in nature and not a criminal offense. Join an indoor range with 24hr key access.
Link Posted: 7/11/2001 6:31:05 PM EST
So as I understand it,a carry permit is not separate from a pistol permit.As in I couldn't Put just the 3-4 on the carry permit that I intended to carry ,and the rest on just the permit? As you can see I`m still a little confused by the hole process.Thats probably why I waited so long to undertake this. KOG
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 4:47:17 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/12/2001 4:45:49 PM EST by rkbar15]
Unless you apply for a premises permit for your dwelling or business you will be issued a "carry concealed permit" unrestricted as to use or restricted to hunting, target shooting etc. If applicable except for the security/safe check you can list more then four firearms on your permit. NYC has special rules and restrictions as to number and type of firearms you can carry if you are so licensed. AFAIK no other licensing authority has these type restrictions. Because every licensing authority in NY has its own rules and regulations that are not part of the NYS Penal law the above statement may not be correct.
Link Posted: 7/12/2001 5:47:26 PM EST
NY makes you get a pistol permit simply to buy a handgun in NY. This "permit" is also a license to carry, in fact mine says "License to Carry" across the top. I think "pistol permit" is just the commonly used nickname.
Originally Posted By KOG: So as I understand it,a carry permit is not separate from a pistol permit.As in I couldn't Put just the 3-4 on the carry permit that I intended to carry ,and the rest on just the permit? As you can see I`m still a little confused by the hole process.Thats probably why I waited so long to undertake this. KOG
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Link Posted: 7/12/2001 9:03:36 PM EST
Thanks a lot guys for shedding some light on this for me. I think I understand the restrictions a little better now.I appreciate all the help.Thanks Again. KOG
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 9:22:35 AM EST
My Permit is marked as "Target Hunting", with the implications of: Carry Concealed to/from Range Carry Unconcealed while Hunting Invalid in NYC! Where in Peekskill does one shoot? Is the Sportsman Center "AR-Friendly"?
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 10:05:07 AM EST
Guys, I already asked this at glocktalk, but as long is this thread is open I'll ask here too. I am a full time student living in Broome County. My parents (friends, references) are all in Oswego county. So I talked with the Oswego County Clerk and they agreed to let me apply for a permit there, using my parents address, in the understanding that I am "temporarilly" in Broome as a student. Well its all about to go through (we're just waiting on my fingerprint results) and I have to admit I am a little nervous. Oswego issues CCW, but Broome doesn't, my licence lists Oswego as my home but I've had an appartment here in Broome for over a year. Am I asking for trouble? Should I immediately change my address on the permit? I don't want to give up the CCW, and honestly don't know where I'll be living in a year when I graduate. Someone on glocktalk told me I might be able to keep my Oswego permit, with its lack of restrictions, as long as I tell them about the address change. My fear is I'll ask them and they will tell me no you have to transfer it to Broome. Please help me understand all this. Am I bending the law?
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 10:32:15 AM EST
nah, if the clerk at the sheriff's dept. says its ok, then its ok! what better back up do you need than the issuing sheriff??? when i was in school, there were alot of "permanent residence" issues that i had to deal with. just maintain your parent's address in Oswego, FOREVER if you have to! get your NRA stuff sent there, your jury-duty stuff, anything official. all i ever needed for proof of address was a piece of mail with my name and the address in question on it. you are a student, ride it out! employment has nothing to do with it. good luck, shoot safely!
Link Posted: 7/13/2001 2:18:42 PM EST
You should be ok using your parent's address. That is what I am doing as I'm still registerd to vote in Chautauqua county, and me drivers license/pistol permit are both using my parent's address while I am living in Buffalo (Erie county). I consider my apartment a temporary residence until I graduate. Been living here 2 years, just started the third year at this address, but I still use my parents address as my legal one. I replied in the glocktalk thread too :)
Originally Posted By CounterStrike: Guys, I already asked this at glocktalk, but as long is this thread is open I'll ask here too. I am a full time student living in Broome County. My parents (friends, references) are all in Oswego county. So I talked with the Oswego County Clerk and they agreed to let me apply for a permit there, using my parents address, in the understanding that I am "temporarilly" in Broome as a student. Well its all about to go through (we're just waiting on my fingerprint results) and I have to admit I am a little nervous. Oswego issues CCW, but Broome doesn't, my licence lists Oswego as my home but I've had an appartment here in Broome for over a year. Am I asking for trouble? Should I immediately change my address on the permit? I don't want to give up the CCW, and honestly don't know where I'll be living in a year when I graduate. Someone on glocktalk told me I might be able to keep my Oswego permit, with its lack of restrictions, as long as I tell them about the address change. My fear is I'll ask them and they will tell me no you have to transfer it to Broome. Please help me understand all this. Am I bending the law?
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Link Posted: 7/14/2001 4:48:44 AM EST
NY SHOOTERS! I was just at Knight's on Thurs. Talked to George Knight (owner). He is running a special, $10 per hour for range time from 11am - 3pm during WEEKDAYS. Put a down-payment on my new Benneli M1-S90!
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 6:06:10 AM EST
Hey M203, I have to get to Knights soon. Never been there. Is it $10 per hour per gun station and you can have more than one person or is the price per person? Also, can you rapid fire your ARs there? Is it AR friendly? Thank!
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 8:36:17 AM EST
You can have as many residences as you want. You can only have one domicile. Your domicile is the place that you always intend to return to and where you are registered to vote.
Link Posted: 7/14/2001 9:07:59 AM EST
Originally Posted By Kin: It's very hard finding other places to shoot. The last time I shot anything in Long Island, they limit you to one round at a time in the gun. Took all the fun out of the AR.
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You mean there are worse places than Calverton to shoot at???[BD]
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 3:29:31 AM EST
HEY KIN! It's $10 per hour per station. No rapid fire, but very AR freindly. No problems with 30rd and beta-c mags/drums. The fastest I have been able to shoot my AR without getting reprimanded is a shot every second (BANG 1-1000 BANG 2-1000). Knights is a little pricey and not much inventory, but the customer service more than makes up for it in my opinion. I have been dealing with George for several years now (He was the only FFL that would do the transfer on my M203 40MM launcher) and I will usually buy stuff from him even though I can get the same thing on the net for cheaper. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 6:18:07 AM EST
As is evidenced from all the different responses, there is no county or issuing department with the same rules. I live in Erie Co. at the far eastern end of the state. No carry permits have been issued here without a REAL good reason for some time. The judges definition of a good reason seldom equals what you think would be acceptable. My advice is to look at what's being issued in your area. If you know of freinds or others in a similar situation as you and they are getting their CC then go for it. Otherwise just ask for Hunting and Target to get the permit and then file for personal protection later. You will most likly get the restricted permit much faster. In speaking with several State Troopers I have yet to meet even one that knew a NYS permit could be restricted. ( other than within NYC ) All said that if I had a permit then they would not pursue the issue further. ( Unless of course I was doing something with the weapon. i.e. brandishing it, threatening someone, etc. ) As someone else on this thread mentioned. The restrictions are not criminal. NYS issues the permit to carry, the individual counties are acting as the agent for the state. The permit is a New York State Permit. New York State recognizies only that you are quailified or not quailfied to possess a pistol. Good Luck.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 9:00:16 AM EST
You can't be arrested for violating any restriction on you PP. A LEO could advise your licensing officer or licensing agency and then it would be up to the Judge in an administrative proceeding as to what action if any should be taken. You have the right to be represented by an attorney and challenge or present evidence at the hearing.
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 12:12:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/15/2001 12:11:47 PM EST by ctrmass]
Originally Posted By rkbar15:
Originally Posted By ctrmass: My Dad lived in St Laurence county, unrestricted permit, no problem. He was later transfered to Cortland. The judge there dont issue permits. Eric
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Unless there is some compelling reason not to issue a permit the County must issue some type of permit. It may be restricted to target or hunting or employment related. There is also a procedure to transfer your current permit from one NY county to another as long as you are willing to accept the restrictions that are in effect in the original county.
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I dont remember the specifics, he since retired and moved to Maine. He seldom carried (only place you'd likley need it, you werent allowed to carry) so he didnt bother with it anymore. I'm sure youre correct about the transfer though. Just remember that the Judge in Cortland county had a rep of being an asshole towards gun owners. Eric
Link Posted: 7/15/2001 2:48:43 PM EST
Thanks M203! ope to meet someone of you guys there when I get the chance to go. Do you need to reserve ahead of time? How crowded is it usually?
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 12:16:28 AM EST
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 1:33:53 PM EST
Kin>>> No reservations are needed. During the week the range is pretty empty. Weekends can get crowded. I try to go during the week. Another thing that I forgot was they give EVERYONE a breathalyzer test before they start shooting. I think this is a great idea, makes me feel a little safer while shooting.
Link Posted: 7/16/2001 3:58:45 PM EST
Thanks again M203! I guess that I will go on a weekday when the kids are at school. I'll probably try to get my wife to go with me to try to get her to start shooting too. I guess that I would need to rent 2 positions out (we can't alternate taking turns to shoot with one position?).
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