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Posted: 9/23/2004 4:22:15 AM EST
My dad lives in a rural area of VA. I'm going down to see him in October and want to pick him up something to protect the homestead. He has no weapons and hasn't fired anything since his "military day's". I was thinking something along the line of a .20 Coach Gun. I fiqured that two shots and ease of use would suit him well. Any ideas of anything else?? Is a .20 gauge ok??Also what's a good low-mid range coach gun??

Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:24:15 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:25:06 AM EST
coach gun = side by side

nothing wrong with 20 gauge for self defense!
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:25:44 AM EST
If he's uncomfortable with a pistol a 20ga coach gun sounds about right. 2 shots, break action, dead reliable for longer than any of us will live.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:31:01 AM EST
I would go with a pump (you can generally find them for less money than a double). Twenty gauge would be OK, 12 would be better if he's not senstive to recoil. He probably would never need more than two shots, but I always like the idea of more ammo on board and quicker reload.

All that being said, I would feel comfortable with a 20 ga. coach gun. Just make sure he practices with it and knows about the safeties (if any), or cocking the external hammers (if any), etc.

Just my opinion . . . .
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:31:10 AM EST
What is wrong with a AR carbine?

Short, light, no recoil to speek of, lots of shots, easily secured, easily brought into action from a safe condition, easily carries a flashlight. Telestock adjustable for any length reach, easily cared for. Legal in his state.

We have people here who use ARs to teach little kids how to shoot because of its size, weight, and low recoil, yet it fires a effective cartridge. And it has high firepower as a added safety factor. You probably won't have to worry about reloading it in a serious shooting, though if you do that is also a very simple task.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:31:21 AM EST

Originally Posted By PONY_DRIVER:
If he's uncomfortable with a pistol a 20ga coach gun sounds about right. 2 shots, break action, dead reliable for longer than any of us will live.



+1
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:35:19 AM EST
My house gun is a 12 ga Stevens 311 with 00 buck. If he cannot stand the recoil of high brass, then get him some low impulse 00 buck.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:38:50 AM EST
Big Dog.

A good dog buys you time, so that IF you decide gun play is in order, it's not a snap decision.
Allows time for more situational awareness.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:55:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By leadnbrass:
My dad lives in a rural area of VA. I'm going down to see him in October and want to pick him up something to protect the homestead. He has no weapons and hasn't fired anything since his "military day's". I was thinking something along the line of a .20 Coach Gun. I fiqured that two shots and ease of use would suit him well. Any ideas of anything else?? Is a .20 gauge ok??Also what's a good low-mid range coach gun??

Thanks.



Not a bad idea , or if you think a handgun is better try a S&W 10 38 spl.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 4:57:51 AM EST
Side by side .20 with number 1 buck would be just about perfect. If he is a larger framed man, a .12 would be fine too but a hell'uva kick with buck shot if you aren't ready for it.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:03:03 AM EST
Get a 12 guage, he can always shoot lower power loads but with a 20 he can never shoot the higher ones.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:03:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 5:07:16 AM EST by yugosksfan]
I think a 20 gauge 870 would be great. Reliable, easy to operate, and low recoil. If size is a factor grab a youth model. Very handy gun, and allows for more shots between reloads than a break-open.

ETA: They can also be had for about $200. Can't go wrong IMO.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:05:46 AM EST
I have an old Model 10 .38 that I thought about giving him, figured that a shotty would be better. I don't think he would practice enough to be a "center-mass" shooter. I would like the idea of the 12 gauge but he's a small guy with a bad back who seem's to be shrinking every year.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:06:40 AM EST

Originally Posted By ArmdLbrl:
What is wrong with a AR carbine?

Short, light, no recoil to speek of, lots of shots, easily secured, easily brought into action from a safe condition, easily carries a flashlight. Telestock adjustable for any length reach, easily cared for. Legal in his state.

We have people here who use ARs to teach little kids how to shoot because of its size, weight, and low recoil, yet it fires a effective cartridge. And it has high firepower as a added safety factor. You probably won't have to worry about reloading it in a serious shooting, though if you do that is also a very simple task.



+1

Amen!

Whateve­r you get, make sure it is something you can easily attach a light to. If he has to use it, chances are it will be at night. An AR carbine would be the perfect choice. If a shotgun is a must have for him, then get him a Remington 870 pump 12 gauge and some low recoil Federal Tactical 00 buckshot. Recoil is pretty mild and this is a very effective load.

Otherwise, get him a Glock 17 9mm and some hi-caps and load them up with Speer Gold Dot 124 hr +p ammo or some 127 or 147 Winchester Ranger if you can find it.

I would not choose a side by side shotgun. Only two shots before reloading and no method of attaching a light. There's a reason these guns went out of style after the 1800's. It's also why cops and military personnel don't use doubles. Get him a carbine or a pump shotty.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:10:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 5:12:15 AM EST by DriftPunch]
Remington 870 Marine(best choice) or Mossberg 500 Marine. The Winchester is out because the receiver is not plated, just epoxy finished. VA a wet environment with large temperature swings.

This way, cleaning or storage is a complete non issue. Anything reasonably resistant in a marine environment, will NEVER corrode in non marine use. Besides, being shiny, it will be easily located by someone who may forget where it is.

Marine ones are only about $100 more.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:10:50 AM EST



Get on in .45LC or .357magnum with a 20" barrel.


Simple to use, fast if needed, very low recoil but strong power, 11 rounds+, and longer range than a shotty.

A Marlin will probably have smoother action and is easier to mount a small scope if desired.


SGatr15
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:14:07 AM EST
Go with the 38. He is more likely to have it close by when needed. They are ultra reliable,and can be kept fully loaded, so only a trigger squeeze is needed. The shotty will become cumbersome as he ages, even a 20.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:15:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 5:17:12 AM EST by leadnbrass]

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
www.randymays.com/94trappr.gif


Get on in .45LC or .357magnum with a 20" barrel.


Simple to use, fast if needed, very low recoil but strong power, 11 rounds+, and longer range than a shotty.

A Marlin will probably have smoother action and is easier to mount a small scope if desired.


SGatr15



sgtar15, I would see my dad's smile from 400 miles away if I got him that...he loves the "cowboy" guns. Mulled a 30/30 around. forgot about the .357.

Wonder if I could mount an Aimpoint and a Surefire on it.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:19:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By Cincinnatus:
Big Dog.

A good dog buys you time, so that IF you decide gun play is in order, it's not a snap decision.
Allows time for more situational awareness.



+1
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:20:24 AM EST
I would stick with the coach gun. It is a lot more intimidating to a perp.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:21:03 AM EST

Originally Posted By leadnbrass:

sgtar15, I would see my dad's smile from 400 miles away if I got him that...he loves the "cowboy" guns. Mulled a 30/30 around. forgot about the .357.




Depending on age of your father his shoulders may be "worn out". That's why I suggested this rifle. 6-7lbs loaded, balanced, and he is FAMILIAR with it. Plus a .45LC still send out a 255grain bullet! Then later you can get him this...




Also in .45LC and VERY easy to handle and VERY safe!


Hell, if you shop around you can probably get both firearms for around $700.


SGtar15
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:23:32 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:31:33 AM EST
Kinda hard on the furniture but quite effective.......

<­BR>








Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:37:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By leadnbrass:

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
www.randymays.com/94trappr.gif


Get on in .45LC or .357magnum with a 20" barrel.


Simple to use, fast if needed, very low recoil but strong power, 11 rounds+, and longer range than a shotty.

A Marlin will probably have smoother action and is easier to mount a small scope if desired.


SGatr15



sgtar15, I would see my dad's smile from 400 miles away if I got him that...he loves the "cowboy" guns. Mulled a 30/30 around. forgot about the .357.

Wonder if I could mount an Aimpoint and a Surefire on it.



+1. If he loves the cowboy guns then he would obviously feel comfortable using/having it.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:44:03 AM EST
If you're gonna give him a shotgun, get a 12-gauge, and low-recoil ammo.

And I'd go with a remington 11-87, 18"-21" barrel, extended mag, etc...

Sure, it's more money, but those $250 coach guns only have 2 shots, and they HAVE been known to break.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 5:53:15 AM EST
This is easy.
A Mossberg 500 or a Remington 870.
Effective, excellent quality, inexpensive, easy to maintain AND he can also use them (in rural VA) to keep varmints out of his veggie garden.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 6:26:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By yugosksfan:
... allows for more shots between reloads than a break-open.



Just for argument's sake, you can shoot a box of shells faster with a side-by-side than with an automatic or a pump. Don't know which one would be easiest to reload under pressure but I suspect that -- at least for me -- the "break gun" would be the one.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 6:39:59 AM EST
Stick with your original idea. A double barrel shot gun is simple and effective.

www.stoegerindustries.com/firearms/coach.tpl
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 6:50:11 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/23/2004 6:55:00 AM EST by garr]
First, Rural area means a rifle is OK.
If he is an old vet get him something he will be familar with like a GI M1 carbine, Load it with soft points & it will be good to go.
Another option is the Mini 14, Very similar controls to the M1 Garand.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 6:59:07 AM EST
Ok, yes you can hand him a double shotgun and yes it will run and YOU wont have to do anything else for it.

But the thing is you can teach him everything he needs to know about the AR in a weekend AND you will get to spend time with him.

Gees do you really just want to just push a gun at him and say "Here Dad use this" when you don't really have to. Just take the little extra time.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 7:19:56 AM EST
For a good low price, decent quality SXS look at the Baikal or EAA Stagecoach model. Short barrel, interchangable choke tubes, hammers or hammerless, good cowboy look and for around $350 you can't go wrong. They have both 12 and 20 gauge.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:24:21 AM EST
I've seen forearm light setups for lever actions. I'll search for it again. Everybody is saying get a AR or full blown combat shotgun. ??? He's an older man with a bad back and little recent firearms experience. Either the side by side, a simple short barreled pump 20 or a lever action in pistol calibers sounds best. Maybe the M1 carbine. Low recoil, light, multiple shots and he's possibly used it before. I can't imagine my grampa using my AR or 870. Another issue is weapon weight. Most older people can't hold a fully loaded 7 round 12 gauge with a side saddle and forearm light for very long. Then what happens if the BG get's it? Keep it simple, keep it light and train/spend time with your dad.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:30:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By mkgunz:
I've seen forearm light setups for lever actions. I'll search for it again. Everybody is saying get a AR or full blown combat shotgun. ??? He's an older man with a bad back and little recent firearms experience. Either the side by side, a simple short barreled pump 20 or a lever action in pistol calibers sounds best. Maybe the M1 carbine. Low recoil, light, multiple shots and he's possibly used it before. I can't imagine my grampa using my AR or 870. Another issue is weapon weight. Most older people can't hold a fully loaded 7 round 12 gauge with a side saddle and forearm light for very long. Then what happens if the BG get's it? Keep it simple, keep it light and train/spend time with your dad.



A AR is light if you order the right parts (no HBAR's) and dont load it up with shit. Why wouldn't the old man be able to use the AR? The controls are ridiculously simple, and you cannot get much lower recoil even in the lighter weight packages.

If you are worried about the gun being taken from him affix a single point sling so he can just throw the loop over his shoulder when he picks it up, then its impossible to snatch-besides the AR's pistol grip offers better leverage to hold on to than a streight stock.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:36:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By ajm1911:
For a good low price, decent quality SXS look at the Baikal or EAA Stagecoach model. Short barrel, interchangable choke tubes, hammers or hammerless, good cowboy look and for around $350 you can't go wrong. They have both 12 and 20 gauge.



The problem with the Baikal's is that they are incredibly stiff out of the box. They apparently use surplus T62 road wheel springs in them. To reload mine prior to having it tuned, I literally had hold the stock under my right arm and bend it over my knee while pressing down on the barrel with my left hand to keep it open to reload it. There are a number of SASS gunsmiths that will trim & tune it into a very usable piece. It is one of the most popular brands on the SASS circuit due to its reliability and durability, but this is only after it is tuned!

My personal recommendation would be to get your father involved with SASS so that he would be very familiar with it and would have a hoot with a bunch of other guys his age at the same time. The average age of a SASS member is 54. Try:

Single Action Shooting Society
Link to SASS clubs

Heck, at 48 I'm the junior member on some of the posses!

My 2¢,

wganz


Link Posted: 9/23/2004 11:33:00 AM EST
Certainly nothing wrong with a coach gun per se.

But how conscientious is he going to be about having it with him when he thinks he might need it?

There really is a lot to be said for a handgun when discretion or maybe just convenience are issues.

I’d go with both a handgun (your Model 10 sounds fine) and a long arm.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:47:17 PM EST
Thanks for the advice guys.
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 8:55:08 PM EST
20 ga is very OK

if he wants a handgun, i'll say a good .38 spl.
rifle: AR or old school M-1 carbine
Link Posted: 9/23/2004 9:32:46 PM EST
M1 Carbine and a 1911.

I'm bettin he'd break out a big smile if he sees an old school Pony


- BG
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