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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 1/14/2002 5:56:33 PM EST
Ok, I've been out of work since Oct 1 and not having a job is really starting to get to me. The job market is starting to look like it's opening back up and I need some input on job seeking strategy. I'm in the web development field with 3 years of experience but the specific job/skill isn't important, the process and strategy of getting a job is. Here is what I'm trying to determine how to handle. I currently live in Michigan and need to move to Kentucky. There are 3 large towns within an hour of each other, the job market is supposed to open back up and if I wait long enough I should be able to find a decent job. Now for some tough questions. Do I tell someone that I'm interviewing that I've been out of work since Oct 1? Do I tell them that I "need" to move to KY? How do I convey the above information which can be inferred from my resume? MI address with last date of work Oct 1. How do I make sure the interviewer thinks I really want the job and that I will stay. That I'm not just looking for a quick job to get me moved to the area. In the past I've been up front about my situation. In both cases because of my age, 26, and situation both companies were concerned that I would not stick around, although my past work history shows that I do. Both companies also complained about the recruiter fees to me. I've tried applying for positions without recruiters and haven't even gotten a response. There is a job opening a recruiter told me about 3 months ago but said he didn't think I had the best qualifications for the job so he didn't submit my paperwork to them. That company now has an ad in the paper and I can deal directly with them. I think I'm qualified and if not that would be determined by the company, it shouldn't be determined by a recruiter. So I want to do the most I can to A. make sure I get an interview, B. make sure I don't scare the company off. Anyone have any input that might help?
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 6:10:50 PM EST
... I wish I had solid input on your situation. Here is the next best thing: [url]http://www.ceweekly.com/[/url] ... Good Luck!
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 6:17:44 PM EST
Maybe it's because the day's been long, but this story sounds overly complex. Can you give us a 100 word "nutshell" report describing the root problem you are dealing with?
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 6:31:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By TheCommissioner: Maybe it's because the day's been long, but this story sounds overly complex. Can you give us a 100 word "nutshell" report describing the root problem you are dealing with?
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Sure, I'm desperate for a job, as I've been out of work for months, and I live out of state of where I'm looking for jobs. I found what looks like a decent job, not just a job to fill the spot until something better comes along. How do I convince an employer of this without sounding desperate or that I would only want the job for a short time.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 6:35:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 6:39:21 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 6:49:51 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 6:49:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By Stokes: Like my dad always told me: "You don't get rich working for someone else". And if that doesn't work, buy a lottery ticket!
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HEHEHE Heard that too from my dad, but Wall Street traders working for a major wirehouse, made an avg of 500K in bonuses last year. That is low compared to 1.5 mill the previous years. Not to mention industry standard salary for that position is 80K a year + profit overides on the desk. [;)]
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 6:57:00 PM EST
My advice, FWIW, is to make the interview a "what's in it for the employer" discussion. No one 'cares' if you are unemployed or "desperate" for a job. The person doing the hiring has a problem and then a decision. You show him how you can solve the problem and make the decision easy. It's all about selling. Keep your personality and problems out of the interview. Tell the guy what you think he wants to hear. As far as being out of work and how you handle that question, I advise telling the guy you've been "freelancing" and working on some community service projects like Habitat for Humanity. Tell him you always wanted to learn about carpentry and drywall or something. Make it sound believeable. He'll look at you like some kind of hero. If you are ultimately confident that you can do quality work and meet deadlines, that will come through. The rest is just BS.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 7:02:37 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 7:23:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 7:40:56 PM EST
shotar, I have a couple good recruiters, as no single recruiter will have a list of all the jobs available. The recruiter didn't think I was a perfect fit for what the company was looking for and didn't want to put me in a situation that might make his company look bad if I wasn't "perfect", so he didn't submit my paperwork. Or if he did he pulled it and never let me interview. He also claimed that they were the sole recruiting company used by this organization. Here's the strange part. This position opened up in October and was supposed to be a year long contract. It's now 3 months later and the position has opened back up. Either the "perfect" candidate the "sole" recruiting company tried to contract with them didn't work out anyway or the companies fees were too high that no one got hired which is why they are now advertising in the paper. Either way, the recruiter is not working for me because he would not let me interview. I've looked at the job requirements, which the recruiter never gave me a full list of, and not only do I meet the must have I also meet almost all the nice to have. The paperwork is to be mailed directly to the HR manager. My main concern is that upon seeing a Michigan address for a Kentucky position that I will be knocked out of consideration right away. I do have a Kentucky address that I could use. But I still have a MI phone.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 7:51:10 PM EST
SWIRE, I am not trying to be 'smart' here but, I have you ever given any thought to working for yourself ? It's harder work, but every dollar you earn is yours. The hardest part is learning to accept the possibility. Whatever you decide, good luck.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 7:59:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By stcyr: I am not trying to be 'smart' here but, I have you ever given any thought to working for yourself ? It's harder work, but every dollar you earn is yours. The hardest part is learning to accept the possibility.
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Yes. I have a couple side business going on right now. The problem is I screwed myself with credit card debt while in college and for the couple years since I got out of college. If I didn't have these credit card bills I would have enough from my businesses to just barely make it. Right now, I need to move from MI to KY. No full-time job equals no loan for a house. To expand my business I need a house outside of city zoning regulations, unless I purchase a commercial building as well as paying for some place to live. I could really use additional capital for my businesses. The fastest way to get that is with a home equity loan. So no fulltime job = no loan = no home = no capital. A fulltime job for a couple of years will let me pay off my debt and qualify me for a loan, while at the same time letting me continue my business which can still be run on the side.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 8:08:00 PM EST
SWIRE, I understand what you are saying. However, the only way owning a home makes sense is when it is in a rising market and you automatically gain equity simply through the passage of time. Are you sure that this is the type of real estate market we are looking at right now – especially if the Fed starts to increase interest rates? Anyway, i'm sure you know your own situation and circumstances best. Again, good luck.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 8:10:24 PM EST
Swire, I do quite a bit of hiring, actually have to hire an additional person this week. I read this and thought I would give my $.01. 1) Only tell them you have been "out of work" since Oct 1 if they ask. Have you done anything in the meantime? Done side work? Taken some time to hone your skills? Went on vacation since you haven't had one in x# of years? Come on man, you have done something. [smoke] 2) Do not tell them you "need" to move to KY, all you do by this is make them feel like a tampon. They worry that you are just using them. Tell them you plan on moving to KY and want to set up professional contacts and a job in the area since you plan on making it a home. The word "need" makes you seem desperate. 3) "How do I make sure the interviewer thinks I really want the job and that I will stay. That I'm not just looking for a quick job to get me moved to the area." Swire, tell them just that. Point out that your previous job history will show that you are a dedicated employee and you are not looking for a job. You are looking for a career! I can't tell you how many times I have given interviews and just wanted the SOB to say, "I want this job because I am going to do it better than anyone else. You will be proud that you hired me. I do quality work and I do not need to be micro-managed. Bottom line. I WANT this job." I have had only one guy do this to me. I hired him on the spot. He turned into one of the best employees I have ever had. Show drive! 4) I have dealt with a recruiter once, once. I personally can't stand them. This is my humble view. No offense intended anyone. 5) The address thing. Yes, this can sink a canidate. Usually it is nice to be able to pull someone in for an interview and not think about them traveling miles and miles to do so. However, I have interviewed out of state people before. If you plan on moving to the area, see if you can setup a few interviews at once and maybe get down there for a few days. DO NOT use a KY addy if you do not live there! Honesty!!!! KEY!!! If I suspect someone is saying something to appease me, I will call them on it. I cringe when a canidate shoots themselves in the foot with a less than honest answer only to later trip themselves up. Do not lie, you may get caught. 6) All apps at my place of business goto the HR director. I then get them and review them. I look at the way you sell yourself. Do not make me work to hire you. Give all info clearly. Make sure when you are describing previous employment you use *action* words. Just a few thoughts. I wish you luck. If you are ever interested, let me know, I would review your resume for you if you would like and give some feedback. I hope what I said made sense. I am in the shot of bourbon mode and forgot all about work for the day, and a tiring day it was.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 8:17:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By stcyr: However, the only way owning a home makes sense is when it is in a rising market and you automatically gain equity simply through the passage of time. Are you sure that this is the type of real estate market we are looking at right now – especially if the Fed starts to increase interest rates?
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It's not the only way, as I'm looking into real estate investment, as in buying property to rent out. When setup properly not only is the renter paying all the costs but there should be a little left over. The benefits being the loan being paid off by someone else and the property increasing in value. Houses have risen in value on average 3% to 5% for the last 80+ years. Which is a horrible investement considering that the inflation rate most people figure in is 3%. So just buying a house won't do it. Unless the house was bought below the appraised value, it will either need updates to increase it's value or the mortgage paid down. Right now I'm looking at a really cheap place where I can live for a year or so to get all the paperwork completed for the expansion to my business. After that, I can rent out the place and should be able to generate a postive cash flow from the property with no problem.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 8:27:04 PM EST
Defcon Thanks. I do have a KY address as that is where my girlfriend now lives. Which is why I "need" to move there. I also want to move there as I can own all the cool toys in that state. I'm actually in Kentucky about 40% of the time and can be there within 6 hours. I do have a resume that I wouldn't mind someone reveiwing. Can you send me your email address, mine is in my profile.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 8:41:17 PM EST
Swire, I shot you an email. If the GF lives there then I definately dont blame you for needing to move to KY. Bueatiful state as well. I would probably say again just what you said. Say that you spend 40% of your time in KY and you are in the process of making that 100%. State that you are more than willing to accomodate their schedule, if an interview is so desired. State that in your cover letter. Remember, you are selling yourself. If I see a comercial on TV and it makes me think, huh, I wonder if that product will fit my needs, I am less likely to buy it. Remove all concerns the person reviewing your resume may have. Make sure you remember this. Concerns = no job interview. I personally so not work to hire someone. They need to present me with the needed info. (Once in a great while I may do some leg work for more info on a wonderful looking canidate, but this is very seldom.) Ohh, and if you do move down there, when I come to KY to visit family, maybe your new cool toys will want to play. [thinking]
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 8:47:02 PM EST
Thanks for the tip on adding that info to the cover letter. I'm working on that right now. You would be welcome to stop by and have fun with my cool toys anytime. I've been watch the for sale boards for cool toys and had to pass on a really good deal the other week because I didn't have enough in reserve to safely cover the purchase. It's not every day a $1,200 toy is on sale for $800.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 10:05:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/14/2002 10:11:35 PM EST by Ridge_runner]
I live in KY. e-mail me when ya get settled in.Maybe we can go shoot.If I can help let me know.Good luck.
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 10:21:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/14/2002 10:27:43 PM EST by prk]
A few words on recruiters... (I expect some howling, and cries of "bullshit", which means's I've struck a nerve...) You are right, they are not working for you. They are, first of all, working for themselves and secondarily for the employer. And guess what, their agenda is not the same as yours. Do not give them the name of any place you applied, unless it's real clear to you that you no longer have a shot at that opening, or that the position was filled. Why? They are always looking for listings and if they don't have one with the company you applied to, they will be on the phone in an instant, talking up the qualifications of some other job-seeking individual who is a "perfect match", and will gladly arrange an interview with your potential competitor if they'll (the hiring company) just sign the standard agreement. This malarkey about the embarassment of sending someone out to interview is a non-problem. Any recruiter with half a brain wave will not commit you to an interview or even give your name unless they've cleared the company name with you first. Do not get into a posture of giving them information about companies. You need to get them to tell YOU. How many people have they placed at that company? How many are still there and for how long? You should be able to get some information that isn't proprietary but isn't publicly/widely known, or the recruiter hasn't been doing his job. Your job is to collect the information that anyone can get - in the public information, news, company literature & reports, etc. Also, if you go out on an interview, look for some names as you walk to the room where the interview is to take place. People you can later ask for on the phone and explain that you are interested in a position with the company and need some help understanding their business, organization, etc. It's called "social engineering".
Link Posted: 1/14/2002 10:22:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/14/2002 10:28:40 PM EST by prk]
(continued) Now about that opening that disappeared for a while, and is suddenly open again. It's a standard practice to have a 1 -year guarantee to the employer on a placement. That means the recruiter promises to place a second person at the company for no additional fee, if the first one doesn't last a year. What MAY have happened is that the recruiter was not too good at screening candidates, the employer was a very difficult one, or some other problem. Ask the recruiter: Have they placed anyone in that position in the last year? How many? Why did they leave? On every company they mention to you: Do they have an exclusive listing with that company for the position? Also, you can ask how many other people are they presenting for the position in question? They may not tell you or want to give accurate information, but they have to keep in mind that you can also pop the same question to the employer. Screw the so-called "rules" - "must have", "should have", it's all about a fictional "dream" candidate. It's rare that there's an exact match on paper. Guess what? There are a lot of times when someone with a different set of qualifications (than was originally desired) gets the job. What you need to do is size up the position, see where you fit, and sell them on that. Be ready with the answers to any questions you can anticipate. Do not come off as desperate, obviously, and if you sense unusual urgency by the recruiter or the employer, beware. If you are trying to avoid the recruiter route, also try to get around the HR department. While you may not be able to completely cut them out of the picture, you do want to evade the screening process. Find out who the decision-maker and get your resume & cover letter to them or to a level above. If you are going to travel to Kentucky, you might as well try to arrange the schedule so that you can work in any other interviews you can arrange on the same trip. Also go early so you can visit the local library / newpaper office and read up on the news about this place. While you're at it, talk to people you meet there in town about the company, hit a few bars for the same purpose, and see what you can find out. I always gauge their honesty by asking indirectly about some not-so-upbeat topic that's been a concern to them. If their sales are stagnating, I don't say "it said in the Gazette that...." I ask, "what's sales been like recently?". You know the answer. If they are less than honest, you will be able to see it in their body language and through their choice of words, or if they try to blow off the question. If they are less than responsive to ANY of your questions, let them know nicely that you need better from them. A non-response from them can be a test of your assertiveness, where they figure if they can dismiss your concerns easily, so can people you will have to work with. Good luck in all this. 3 months may seem like a long time but you are not alone by any means.
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