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Posted: 11/4/2009 1:56:58 PM EST
Tell us what you think: Buying your own tools

Staff report
Posted : Wednesday Nov 4, 2009 16:06:23 EST

Ships stationed in Hampton Roads, Va., have become so starved for cash that sailors have taken to buying supplies and equipment with their own money — or they’re just not getting the gear they need to do their jobs — according to a Navy report.

A Navy Investigator General’s report from this spring described one ship, which was not named, with a $1 million supply shortfall.

“Sailors of all ranks, including the supply officer, are buying supplies out of pocket to meet operational and certification requirements,” the report said.

Has your ship had to struggle with too little money from Big Navy? Have you and your shipmates had to dip into your own pockets to buy tools, equipment or supplies the ship needed?

We want to hear about it. Contact reporter Philip Ewing pewing@atpco.com. Your comments could appear in Navy Times.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 1:58:37 PM EST
Don't let anyone tell you that Obama cares about the military, it's getting as bad as it was under Clinton.
It has not approached Jimmy Carter levels of fucked-up, but if fislammajammaobamma keeps going he'll be able to exceed the fuckedupidness of the Carter underfunded military.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:02:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 2:03:04 PM EST by Chairborne]

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Don't let anyone tell you that Obama cares about the military, it's getting as bad as it was under Clinton.
It has not approached Jimmy Carter levels of fucked-up, but if fislammajammaobamma keeps going he'll be able to exceed the fuckedupidness of the Carter underfunded military.

Sorry but it's not the big O's fault this time. Put the blame where it belongs, on the SecDef, a Bush appointee. And it's only the AF and Navy that are being underfunded to the point of compromising operational capability, the Army and USMC are fat dumb and happy.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:04:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 2:05:53 PM EST by Shott8283]
this isnt the first..

ive bought plenty of gear that i needed when supply came up short..

ive also bought BETTER gear then what issue was.. since the garbage the Marines issue usually have stains and rips since its been handed down 11 times before we got it

Originally Posted By Chairborne:

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Don't let anyone tell you that Obama cares about the military, it's getting as bad as it was under Clinton.
It has not approached Jimmy Carter levels of fucked-up, but if fislammajammaobamma keeps going he'll be able to exceed the fuckedupidness of the Carter underfunded military.

Sorry but it's not the big O's fault this time. Put the blame where it belongs, on the SecDef, a Bush appointee. And it's only the AF and Navy that are being underfunded to the point of compromising operational capability, the Army and USMC are fat dumb and happy.


slow your role homie,, slow your role
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:06:48 PM EST
Who ever is to blame originally, it is under the O's watch now and it needs to be fixed.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:10:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 2:11:38 PM EST by Spade]
It's going to take some officer publically falling on his sword and saying, "No, I am NOT taking a ship to sea that isn't 100% good to go because I didn't have the manpower, didn't have the funding, and my guys were buying their own stuff just to get by until the next upcoming INSURV inspection caused us to get some attention. And until it's all fixed I'm not sailing." to get this nonsense fixed. Or at least some real attention.

As was said on a Navy blog:
btw, when I was down in Norfolk [REDACTED] and a half ago for [REDACTED]l, I had to cross over [REDACTED] to get to her. I was shocked to see that [REDACTED] was qualified to be called a rust bucket and I'm talking about watertight doors rusted so bad it looked like the door and frame were ready to fall right out of the bulkhead. Simple rust streaking would have been an improvement.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:10:30 PM EST
Personally I think it's congress's fault - they keep buying cool (but not asked for) new toys for the military, and sending the pork to their district. The military has enough money, but poor spending priorities.

Adequate buildings, housing, & materials? Nah, buy them jet engines from *my* district!
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:15:59 PM EST
Originally Posted By Chairborne:

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Don't let anyone tell you that Obama cares about the military, it's getting as bad as it was under Clinton.
It has not approached Jimmy Carter levels of fucked-up, but if fislammajammaobamma keeps going he'll be able to exceed the fuckedupidness of the Carter underfunded military.

Sorry but it's not the big O's fault this time. Put the blame where it belongs, on the SecDef, a Bush appointee. And it's only the AF and Navy that are being underfunded to the point of compromising operational capability, the Army and USMC are fat dumb and happy.


WHAT??? wow.. you have to be kidding..... Oh I get it.... you are kidding....
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:19:11 PM EST
LCPL John Q. Public should get gear before Government Motors gets billions.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:19:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/4/2009 2:32:23 PM EST by EarlBypass]
Originally Posted By Shott8283:
this isnt the first..

ive bought plenty of gear that i needed when supply came up short..

ive also bought BETTER gear then what issue was.. since the garbage the Marines issue usually have stains and rips since its been handed down 11 times before we got it

Originally Posted By Chairborne:

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Don't let anyone tell you that Obama cares about the military, it's getting as bad as it was under Clinton.
It has not approached Jimmy Carter levels of fucked-up, but if fislammajammaobamma keeps going he'll be able to exceed the fuckedupidness of the Carter underfunded military.

Sorry but it's not the big O's fault this time. Put the blame where it belongs, on the SecDef, a Bush appointee. And it's only the AF and Navy that are being underfunded to the point of compromising operational capability, the Army and USMC are fat dumb and happy.


slow your role homie,, slow your role

SNAPthat fucking roll!

ETA: The place I work has been trying for the last few years to keep two of these antiquated manometers going... A State-of-the-Art unit can be purchased for much less than has been dumped into keeping the ones we have on life support. Something about, um, ah, ehhhhh, PROCUREMENT... and we provide mucho service and support to both the Navy and USMC.


Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:20:24 PM EST
Originally Posted By Shott8283:
this isnt the first..

ive bought plenty of gear that i needed when supply came up short..

ive also bought BETTER gear then what issue was.. since the garbage the Marines issue usually have stains and rips since its been handed down 11 times before we got it

Originally Posted By Chairborne:

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Don't let anyone tell you that Obama cares about the military, it's getting as bad as it was under Clinton.
It has not approached Jimmy Carter levels of fucked-up, but if fislammajammaobamma keeps going he'll be able to exceed the fuckedupidness of the Carter underfunded military.

Sorry but it's not the big O's fault this time. Put the blame where it belongs, on the SecDef, a Bush appointee. And it's only the AF and Navy that are being underfunded to the point of compromising operational capability, the Army and USMC are fat dumb and happy.


slow your role homie,, slow your role


I second this... fat dumb and happy my ass *USMC*
The amount of deadlined mission critical equipment that we have to run short funds is ridiculous right now... I have to buy equipment to do my job all the time... which is total BS but its way quicker than ordering, having funds denied, and being yelled at for not getting the job done.
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 2:45:43 PM EST
We had to do that during '78-'81. Bought paper, pens, pencils and other office supplies at the local office supply store. Made runs to Radio Shack for electronic parts for repairing our comms equipment. This was Navy too, just outside of Wash. D.C.

Guess who was president then?
Link Posted: 11/4/2009 8:06:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By neilfj:
We had to do that during '78-'81. Bought paper, pens, pencils and other office supplies at the local office supply store. Made runs to Radio Shack for electronic parts for repairing our comms equipment. This was Navy too, just outside of Wash. D.C.
Guess who was president then?


Had to have been Bush Jr.

Link Posted: 11/4/2009 11:31:26 PM EST
Originally Posted By Chairborne:
Sorry but it's not the big O's fault this time. Put the blame where it belongs, on the SecDef, a Bush appointee. And it's only the AF and Navy that are being underfunded to the point of compromising operational capability, the Army and USMC are fat dumb and happy.

Our training and ammo budget was cut to less than 1/7 of what it was last year.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 1:03:27 AM EST
While I wouldn't say that we are well funded over here in the Army, I will also point out that the Army is pulling the vast majority of the weight in these to conflicts right now, followed by the Marines. It only makes sense that we would draw more funding.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 1:17:21 AM EST
There are several things going on here.
#1 Money is undeniably getting taken from the USAF/USN to fund the Army and the USMC. Sorry folks but it's true. A couple of years ago the Navy and the USAF had to stop spending money because their budgets had to pay for Army and USMC operations until a new bill was passed. It got press then. It doesn't get press now.

#2 Operations and Maintenance money is getting "earmarks" from Congress, so that the money we are being budgeted with has to go to pork barrel projects instead of funding what it ought to fund. It got a little better this year with the NDAA of 2010, but not by much.

#3 We've BRAC'ed ourselves out of O&M money. It's harder to kill a procurement project because the contractors spread out jobs across several states and through many Congressional district. There are only a couple of Navy bases, for instance, that still operate ships. Congressmen outside of those couple of districts could care less about how much money is spent to maintain those ships.

I've spent something like $800 in the last year on my ship. I know my guys have spent more than that. I wish I could have stopped them and spent it myself.

I'm not going into details, but suffice to say we are at a point that we are leveraging our future combat capability in the USAF and USN to fund wars of choice.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 1:51:43 AM EST
Originally Posted By dport:
There are several things going on here.
#1 Money is undeniably getting taken from the USAF/USN to fund the Army and the USMC. Sorry folks but it's true. A couple of years ago the Navy and the USAF had to stop spending money because their budgets had to pay for Army and USMC operations until a new bill was passed. It got press then. It doesn't get press now.

#2 Operations and Maintenance money is getting "earmarks" from Congress, so that the money we are being budgeted with has to go to pork barrel projects instead of funding what it ought to fund. It got a little better this year with the NDAA of 2010, but not by much.

#3 We've BRAC'ed ourselves out of O&M money. It's harder to kill a procurement project because the contractors spread out jobs across several states and through many Congressional district. There are only a couple of Navy bases, for instance, that still operate ships. Congressmen outside of those couple of districts could care less about how much money is spent to maintain those ships.

I've spent something like $800 in the last year on my ship. I know my guys have spent more than that. I wish I could have stopped them and spent it myself.

I'm not going into details, but suffice to say we are at a point that we are leveraging our future combat capability in the USAF and USN to fund wars of choice.



Part of the problem is how the money is being spent, and crystal ball being used to predict what the next war will look like. All service, mine included are in love with their concept of future war that is well suited to their 1980s and earlier METLs. However, everyone can watch CNN to include our future enemies. They all know, fighting a big war against the US may not be a winnable one and asymmetric war is the way to go.

However all the service chiefs will insist that the next threat (be it China or re-energized Russia) will come out to fight us in the fashion we want to be fought in.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 3:14:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By KA3B:
Originally Posted By neilfj:
We had to do that during '78-'81. Bought paper, pens, pencils and other office supplies at the local office supply store. Made runs to Radio Shack for electronic parts for repairing our comms equipment. This was Navy too, just outside of Wash. D.C.
Guess who was president then?


Had to have been Bush Jr.



not quite, but he couldn't even get us paid on time.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 3:18:43 AM EST
R0N, IM me your SIPR and I'll tell you some tales that will leave you shaking your head.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 3:26:42 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 3:35:41 AM EST
this isnt the first..

ive bought plenty of gear that i needed when supply came up short..

ive also bought BETTER gear then what issue was.. since the garbage the Marines issue usually have stains and rips since its been handed down 11 times before we got it


This + 1000

Anyone who has deployed knows that you're always spending your money on personal gear, mostly due to poor condition of some items, or just because you want to stand out in a crowd!
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 3:52:58 AM EST
Visit your local DRMO/DRMS office and screen for your missing supplies. They'll be there, brand new in the package, never opened, and will be sold to some civilian buyer
for pennies on the dollar because they're "out of date" or some other such nonsense.

Yeah, like wrenches REALLY have a shelf life.


The procurement system is full of fraud, waste, and abuse. It's just how the system works.


CJ
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 4:40:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By Chairborne:

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Don't let anyone tell you that Obama cares about the military, it's getting as bad as it was under Clinton.
It has not approached Jimmy Carter levels of fucked-up, but if fislammajammaobamma keeps going he'll be able to exceed the fuckedupidness of the Carter underfunded military.

Sorry but it's not the big O's fault this time. Put the blame where it belongs, on the SecDef, a Bush appointee. And it's only the AF and Navy that are being underfunded to the point of compromising operational capability, the Army and USMC are fat dumb and happy.


You're as clueless about Marine Corps budgetary matters as that Air Force TI was about physical fitness standards.




Link Posted: 11/5/2009 5:48:56 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/5/2009 5:49:19 AM EST by Screechjet1]
Originally Posted By madmathew:
While I wouldn't say that we are well funded over here in the Army, I will also point out that the Army is pulling the vast majority of the weight in these to conflicts right now, followed by the Marines. It only makes sense that we would draw more funding.


However, the Army Doctrine creation and procurement process is DECADES behind the times, held hostage by a collection of retiree SES/GS15s and their Contractor buddies stuck mentally in Bosnia/DS/Fulda Gap.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 5:52:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By Chairborne:

Originally Posted By KA3B:
Don't let anyone tell you that Obama cares about the military, it's getting as bad as it was under Clinton.
It has not approached Jimmy Carter levels of fucked-up, but if fislammajammaobamma keeps going he'll be able to exceed the fuckedupidness of the Carter underfunded military.

Sorry but it's not the big O's fault this time. Put the blame where it belongs, on the SecDef, a Bush appointee. And it's only the AF and Navy that are being underfunded to the point of compromising operational capability, the Army and USMC are fat dumb and happy.


Kerry Steals Funding From Troops For Kennedy Memorial
by: Rick
Sat Oct 17, 2009 at 13:14:21 PM EDT

( - promoted by DD4RP)

Senators earmarked $2.6 billion in the FY 2010 Defense Appropriation to pet projects. Among the the money diverted from our military men and women was $20 million for the Edward M. Kennedy Institute for the United States Senate. The earmark, sponsored by Sen. John F. Kerry, along with the other earmarks shortchanges the funding that our military desperately needs for operations and maintenance by $165 million. The appropriations bill also came up $4 billion short of what President Obama's administration had requested.
Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK) attempted to restore

Link Posted: 11/5/2009 5:59:42 AM EST
this is a shame, as a tax paying civilian i want my money to go to our armed forces, not some lazy whore who can't keep her legs closed and her illegitimate children from 5 different fathers also being clothed, housed, & fed by my tax dollars & the US prison system
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 6:00:26 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 6:01:01 AM EST
The Problem lies with the senate... and it will still be a problem until this wreck of a government Implodes...
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 6:03:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By R0N:
Originally Posted By dport:
There are several things going on here.
#1 Money is undeniably getting taken from the USAF/USN to fund the Army and the USMC. Sorry folks but it's true. A couple of years ago the Navy and the USAF had to stop spending money because their budgets had to pay for Army and USMC operations until a new bill was passed. It got press then. It doesn't get press now.

#2 Operations and Maintenance money is getting "earmarks" from Congress, so that the money we are being budgeted with has to go to pork barrel projects instead of funding what it ought to fund. It got a little better this year with the NDAA of 2010, but not by much.

#3 We've BRAC'ed ourselves out of O&M money. It's harder to kill a procurement project because the contractors spread out jobs across several states and through many Congressional district. There are only a couple of Navy bases, for instance, that still operate ships. Congressmen outside of those couple of districts could care less about how much money is spent to maintain those ships.

I've spent something like $800 in the last year on my ship. I know my guys have spent more than that. I wish I could have stopped them and spent it myself.

I'm not going into details, but suffice to say we are at a point that we are leveraging our future combat capability in the USAF and USN to fund wars of choice.



Part of the problem is how the money is being spent, and crystal ball being used to predict what the next war will look like. All service, mine included are in love with their concept of future war that is well suited to their 1980s and earlier METLs. However, everyone can watch CNN to include our future enemies. They all know, fighting a big war against the US may not be a winnable one and asymmetric war is the way to go.

However all the service chiefs will insist that the next threat (be it China or re-energized Russia) will come out to fight us in the fashion we want to be fought in.


There does need to be a Strategic Hedge against a near-peer competitor. Russia is out (other than for strategic forces), but contingencies in Mexico, the Persian Gulf, or Taiwan Straits could require an MCO. The issue is that we've become married to ever-shifting upward requirements (see F-22, EFV, LCS or FCS) on the procurement side of the house that robs our ability to get replacements and maintain our existing forces.

The military needs to embrace a hi/lo mix if we're ever going to be able to have the coverage we need. We need to look at, and buy into, low cost 60% solutions, or risk a 0% solution when we either have too few assets, or don't have them at all. We need to look at how we train, pay for and retain personnel, as many of those models are 50-60 years old, and not applicable to the Service need.

We need a real scrub of billets, esp. at the Flag/GO Joint level. We're standing up US Cyber Command...yet another command that will need a LTG or VADM deputy, and who wants to take a bet that the position will morph into a permanent SES position? Then we'll dump another 50 majillion people into one of the most expensive places to live in the US.

Starting with CYBERCOM, any new Command must be stationed at Ft. Polk, Dugway Proving Ground or Ft. Riley. Cheap.
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 6:10:26 AM EST
mmmmmmm lets see the automotive and banks industry is to big to fail....but the military isn't and you have that coward kerry from ma stealing money for a kennedy memorial.....niiiiiiiice...
Link Posted: 11/5/2009 6:21:31 AM EST
It was my experience in the Surface Fleet that the "funding dollar" was "trickle down poverty".

It generally went like this: $$$ > Air Wing > the CVN > The Ships Company. I was ships company and we went around with the most outdated shit imaginable. This was during Clintons "authorized reduction in force" in the early 90's.

Not surprising to learn that funds aren't making it to the crews in the Fleet.

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