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Posted: 3/16/2011 8:49:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 8:52:28 AM EST
Against.

And that's my congressman.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 8:52:40 AM EST
So this should easily pass Congress now.

The speaker will put it to a vote and all of the Republicans will vote yes.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 8:53:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
Against.

And that's my congressman.


but... but ......he's a Republican.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 8:53:21 AM EST
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
Against.

And that's my congressman.


facepalm.jpg

Do you have a drivers license?
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 8:54:31 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 8:55:13 AM EST by TrojanMan]
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
Against.
And that's my congressman.


I have yet to hear a sound reason why this is a bad idea.

I'm honestly interested in why any gun rights proponent would/should be against this.

Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 8:54:34 AM EST
I'm against this because in order to do this ALL the states would have to agree on ONE list for no-go zones.

And IMO we'd get fucked in during process.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 8:55:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
I'm against this because in order to do this ALL the states would have to agree on ONE list for no-go zones.

And IMO we'd get fucked in during process.


Wrong

Link Posted: 3/16/2011 8:56:25 AM EST
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
I'm against this because in order to do this ALL the states would have to agree on ONE list for no-go zones.

And IMO we'd get fucked in during process.


Not true. Just like a DL, you would have to respect each states rules.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 8:56:39 AM EST

Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
I'm against this because in order to do this ALL the states would have to agree on ONE list for no-go zones.

And IMO we'd get fucked in during process.

I think thats my biggest fear. I want to be able to carry anywhere I go. However I'm sure the rules for getting a license will be near impossible if the dems have their way.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 8:57:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By metalsaber:

Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
I'm against this because in order to do this ALL the states would have to agree on ONE list for no-go zones.

And IMO we'd get fucked in during process.

I think thats my biggest fear. I want to be able to carry anywhere I go. However I'm sure the rules for getting a license will be near impossible if the dems have their way.


It's NOT a national license. It simply says that CCW must be treated as "Full faith and credit" just like a marriage license or a drivers license.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 8:57:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By metalsaber:

Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
I'm against this because in order to do this ALL the states would have to agree on ONE list for no-go zones.

And IMO we'd get fucked in during process.

I think thats my biggest fear. I want to be able to carry anywhere I go. However I'm sure the rules for getting a license will be near impossible if the dems have their way.


Do some of you people even bother to read this stuff ?
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 8:58:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By FlyingIllini:
Originally Posted By metalsaber:

Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
I'm against this because in order to do this ALL the states would have to agree on ONE list for no-go zones.

And IMO we'd get fucked in during process.

I think thats my biggest fear. I want to be able to carry anywhere I go. However I'm sure the rules for getting a license will be near impossible if the dems have their way.


Do some of you people even bother to read this stuff ?


Maybe the have to pass it before they know what's in it.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 8:59:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
I'm against this because in order to do this ALL the states would have to agree on ONE list for no-go zones.

And IMO we'd get fucked in during process.


Why?

If one state allows carry on school grounds when picking up a child, but another state does not, it is simply the responsibility of the gun owner to know the laws in the place they are travelling to and obey them accordingly.

Some states have different speed limits for certain types of roads. Until recently, many states had different DUI thresholds. Some states have different laws about what can, cannot, or must be on your vehicle. It is the responsibility of the driver to follow each state's laws accordingly. Doesn't mean your driver's license isn't still valid.

I agree that a soup of different laws would be inconvenient to navigate and that such laws should be concise and well-advertized, but I don't see why national reciprocity, in and of itself, would pose a problem.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 8:59:25 AM EST
Full faith and credit. Constitution and all that.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 8:59:36 AM EST
If they do it like Driver's Licenses, Yes.
If they do it like a Federal CCW license, No.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:01:13 AM EST
Originally Posted By ARinKCMO:
If they do it like Driver's Licenses, Yes.
If they do it like a Federal CCW license, No.


That's what it is.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:01:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By ARinKCMO:
If they do it like Driver's Licenses, Yes.
If they do it like a Federal CCW license, No.


+1
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:02:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By ARinKCMO:
If they do it like Driver's Licenses, Yes.
If they do it like a Federal CCW license, No.


Jesus Christ you fucking people are lazy. Can't read a couple of paragraphs without talking nonsense.

All it does is provide reciprocity, meaning each state issues permits according to its own rules. When you cross a state line to a state that allows CCW you must abide by that states rules when you CCW. That is it.

Christ.

Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:02:53 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 9:09:58 AM EST by Daps]
Quick Question. Do states like Ca,IL,NJ,NY issue conceal permits?
If they do will that mean if they have a 10rnd mag limit and you visit the state will you have to have on 10rnd mags or no hollow points?

I'd like to have National Carry but I think they should also be some sort of consistency.

ETA:Ok I see the post above mine. Just will have to know the rules of the state before visiting. Pretty much what you have to do now.

I could see states like CA doing away with concealed permits unless you're LEO and then granting "celebs" LEO status
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:03:14 AM EST
ohhh pretty pretty please
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:04:51 AM EST
All states issue some don't they?

I know it is difficult to get them in like NYC or Chicago, but some people still have them correct?
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:05:28 AM EST
Would be nice... I would then get the wife off my back about going to New York state and go.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:05:29 AM EST

Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
I'm against this because in order to do this ALL the states would have to agree on ONE list for no-go zones.

And IMO we'd get fucked in during process.

I agree. State issue. ANYONE can get a drivers license. The system works great as it is.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:06:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 9:08:30 AM EST by klinc]

Originally Posted By krpind:
All states issue some don't they?

I know it is difficult to get them in like NYC or Chicago, but some people still have them correct?

I think Illinois and Michigan Wisconsin do not issue. All others have some kind of laws in place to get them although it may be about impossible in some states/places.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:06:46 AM EST
If you voted against, go fuck yourself and get off the site.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:08:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 9:11:04 AM EST by AJ-IN-JAX]
HR 822 IH


––snipped the findings––
.

SEC. 3. RECIPROCITY FOR THE CARRYING OF CERTAIN CONCEALED FIREARMS.

(a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 926C the following:

‘Sec. 926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms

‘(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof, related to the carrying or transportation of firearms, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a government-issued photographic identification document and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State, other than the State of residence of the person, that––

‘(1) has a statute that allows residents of the State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms; or

‘(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.

‘(b) A person carrying a concealed handgun under this section shall be permitted to carry a handgun subject to the same conditions or limitations that apply to residents of the State who have permits issued by the State or are otherwise lawfully allowed to do so by the State.

‘(c) In a State that allows the issuing authority for licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms to impose restrictions on the carrying of firearms by individual holders of such licenses or permits, a firearm shall be carried according to the same terms authorized by an unrestricted license or permit issued to a resident of the State.

‘(d) Nothing in this section shall be construed to preempt any provision of State law with respect to the issuance of licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms.’.

(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for such chapter is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926C the following:

‘926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms.’.

(c) Severability- Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, if any provision of this section, or any amendment made by this section, or the application of such provision or amendment to any person or circumstance is held to be unconstitutional, this section and amendments made by this section and the application of such provision or amendment to other persons or circumstances shall not be affected thereby.

(d) Effective Date- The amendments made by this section shall take effect 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act.

Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:09:37 AM EST
Originally Posted By Daps:
Quick Question. Do states like Ca,IL,NJ,NY issue conceal permits?
If they do will that mean if they have a 10rnd mag limit and you visit the state will you have to have on 10rnd mags or no hollow points?

I'd like to have National Carry but I think they should also be some sort of consistency


IL, and WI currently do no issue at all (WI is likely to change in the next 6 months). With this law, you could not carry in those states.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:10:07 AM EST
Originally Posted By Firebird69:

Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
I'm against this because in order to do this ALL the states would have to agree on ONE list for no-go zones.

And IMO we'd get fucked in during process.

I agree. State issue. ANYONE can get a drivers license. The system works great as it is.


RTFA. It's still state issue.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:11:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By Daps:
Quick Question. Do states like Ca,IL,NJ,NY issue conceal permits?
If they do will that mean if they have a 10rnd mag limit and you visit the state will you have to have on 10rnd mags or no hollow points?

I'd like to have National Carry but I think they should also be some sort of consistency.

ETA:Ok I see the post above mine. Just will have to know the rules of the state before visiting. Pretty much what you have to do now.

I could see states like CA doing away with concealed permits unless you're LEO and then granting "celebs" LEO status


Yes NYS has CCW but it has mag restrictions, also NYC has different laws when compared to NYS.

Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:12:19 AM EST
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
HR 822 IH


What is it you don't like?

Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:12:41 AM EST
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
HR 822 IH


––snipped the findings––
.

SEC. 3. RECIPROCITY FOR THE CARRYING OF CERTAIN CONCEALED FIREARMS.

(a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 926C the following:

‘Sec. 926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms

‘(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof, related to the carrying or transportation of firearms, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a government-issued photographic identification document and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State, other than the State of residence of the person, that––

‘(1) has a statute that allows residents of the State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms; or

‘(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.

‘(b) A person carrying a concealed handgun under this section shall be permitted to carry a handgun subject to the same conditions or limitations that apply to residents of the State who have permits issued by the State or are otherwise lawfully allowed to do so by the State.

‘(c) In a State that allows the issuing authority for licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms to impose restrictions on the carrying of firearms by individual holders of such licenses or permits, a firearm shall be carried according to the same terms authorized by an unrestricted license or permit issued to a resident of the State.

‘(d) Nothing in this section shall be construed to preempt any provision of State law with respect to the issuance of licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms.’.

(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for such chapter is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926C the following:

‘926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms.’.

(c) Severability- Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, if any provision of this section, or any amendment made by this section, or the application of such provision or amendment to any person or circumstance is held to be unconstitutional, this section and amendments made by this section and the application of such provision or amendment to other persons or circumstances shall not be affected thereby.

(d) Effective Date- The amendments made by this section shall take effect 90 days after the date of the enactment of this Act.



Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:13:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By USMC6177:
NYC has different laws when compared to NYS.



This would make that irrelevant I would think.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:15:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:15:40 AM EST
what about residents of states that dont have permits but do allow ccw.....ak, az, etc
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:16:39 AM EST
I wonder if someone from California with a Utah non-resident permit would be able to carry in California under such a reciprocity law. I saw no distinction made between resident and non-resident permits nor any requirement that the permit holder be a resident of the state that issued the permit to ualify, but maybe I'm missing something.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:17:06 AM EST
I am in for it..
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:17:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 9:27:33 AM EST by brasidas]
As far as it being a state issue, Congress has the constitutional power to do this under the Full Faith and Credit Clause as well as the 14th amendment:

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.


A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


1. .... No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws
..
5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:18:25 AM EST
three people cant read.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:18:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
Against.
And that's my congressman.


I have yet to hear a sound reason why this is a bad idea.

I'm honestly interested in why any gun rights proponent would/should be against this.

Thanks in advance.


States rights.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:20:15 AM EST
Originally Posted By SLR107UR:
what about residents of states that dont have permits but do allow ccw.....ak, az, etc


AK and AZ still issue for this purpose. NH? Does not, so they would be at a disadvantage.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:20:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 9:22:23 AM EST by USMC6177]
Originally Posted By krpind:
Originally Posted By USMC6177:
NYC has different laws when compared to NYS.



This would make that irrelevant I would think.


I was refering to the magazine capacity question rather than the restrictions.


ETA
It would be interesting to see if this law would allow NYS residents with CCW to carry in NYC.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:21:05 AM EST
Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
Against.
And that's my congressman.


I have yet to hear a sound reason why this is a bad idea.

I'm honestly interested in why any gun rights proponent would/should be against this.

Thanks in advance.


States rights.


doublefacepalm.jpg

This is NOT a federal CCW. It's full faith and credit, the most BASIC reason that the USA exists.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:21:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 9:33:47 AM EST by TrojanMan]
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
-snip-
... a person who is ... carrying ... a valid license or permit ... may carry a concealed handgun ... in any State, other than the State of residence of the person, that––
-snip-


Oh well.

Though it makes sense, since it would otherwise be out of the authority of the FedGov to enforce.

I'm still for it, mind you, but those of us behind enemy lines will still need to fight locally to change things. Hopefully, however, the federal bill will get things going at the state level.


As for the bill's chances, it's going to be a tough one because you know Obama's not going to sign if it makes it to his desk.
Then again, that would publicly out him as anti-gun and could possibly influence the 2012 election.

ETA: That exception I just highlighted? That's states' rights. The fed isn't telling states what they can and cannot do. They are saying that for residents of other states, while they are engaged in travel and interstate commerce, their permit is valid under full faith, and in accordance with the regulations and restrictions of the state they're in.

Example:
Joe Schmoe is a Maryland resident. Maryland does not issue permits except to the exhalted classes. Mr. Schmoe is not politically powerful and cannot get a permit. Instead, he applies for, and is issued, a Virginia nonresident permit.

Under current law, he may carry in Virginia (as well as PA, DE, NC, WV and many other surrounding states) but he cannot carry in his home state of Maryland OR in any state that does not recognize reciprocity with Virginia (e.g. New York or New Jersey).

Under the proposed bill, Mr. Schmoe is still not permitted to carry in his home state - because federal law cannot regulate intrastate behavior. He may, however, carry in New York and New Jersey when he visits those jurisdictions because the federal law covers him as he engages in interstate commerce. The requirement of Mr. Schmoe to comply with all local laws regarding how and where he can carry remains unchanged.

For clarification: This WILL NOT affect anyone in a may-issue state that is currently unable to obtain a permit while they are within their home state.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:21:59 AM EST
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:22:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By USMC6177:
Originally Posted By krpind:
Originally Posted By USMC6177:
NYC has different laws when compared to NYS.



This would make that irrelevant I would think.


I was refering to the magazine capacity question rather than the restrictions.


ETA
It would be interesting to see if this law would allow NYS residents with CCW to carry in NYC.


I assume you would need pre-bans or low caps for those locations, but I'm not sure.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:23:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By ceverett:
Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
Against.
And that's my congressman.


I have yet to hear a sound reason why this is a bad idea.

I'm honestly interested in why any gun rights proponent would/should be against this.

Thanks in advance.


States rights.


doublefacepalm.jpg

This is NOT a federal CCW. It's full faith and credit, the most BASIC reason that the USA exists.

No shit.. too many herpy derps in our own ranks.


Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:23:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
I'm against this because I didn't bother to read it.


FIFY
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:24:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By Sixpack595:
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
Against.
And that's my congressman.


I have yet to hear a sound reason why this is a bad idea.

I'm honestly interested in why any gun rights proponent would/should be against this.

Thanks in advance.


States rights.


Have nothing to do with this legislation. But you keep cutting off your nose to spite your face. See how far that gets you.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:24:46 AM EST
Originally Posted By TrojanMan:
Originally Posted By AJ-IN-JAX:
-snip-
... a person who is ... carrying ... a valid license or permit ... may carry a concealed handgun ... in any State, other than the State of residence of the person, that––
-snip-


Oh well.

Though it makes sense, since it would otherwise be out of the authority of the FedGov to enforce.

I'm still for it, mind you, but those of us behind enemy lines will still need to fight locally to change things. Hopefully, however, the federal bill will get things going at the state level.


As for the bill's chances, it's going to be a tough one because you know Obama's not going to sign if it makes it to his desk.
Then again, that would publicly out him as anti-gun and could possibly influence the 2012 election.


Yeah, this doesn't help those is no-issue, or effective no-issue states, at least not directly.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:25:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By SLR107UR:
what about residents of states that dont have permits but do allow ccw.....ak, az, etc


I believe they offer permits.
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