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Posted: 9/7/2004 3:22:43 AM EST
Ron Paul wrote this:

National ID Editorial

To me, this is a much more dangerous issue than the AWB and deserves attention. "Your papers please" does not even come close to the kind of sick shit that can be perpetrated if we allow national IDs to be instantiated.

Frankly, I don't even see the point of having a driver's license since all it has become is a way to keep track of where people live. It certainly has correlation to their skill at driving a car.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:31:06 AM EST
Don't like it, nope not one bit. Any cop in this country can already run my DL if that ain't enough. another form of ID won't work. If they do this shit, it better take the place of my DL, SS card and all the other forms of .gov(state or federal) required/issued IDs(And they should work a national CCW into it too!)

Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:33:31 AM EST
Seems unreal.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:43:39 AM EST



"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. (Rev. 13:16-18).
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:48:06 AM EST
No, actually there is no NEWS about a National ID "coming our way," there's simply a Ron Paul editorial decrying the idea of a national ID. More rumormongering and alarmism from our resident troll.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:50:10 AM EST

Originally Posted By thelibertarian:
Ron Paul wrote this:

National ID Editorial

To me, this is a much more dangerous issue than the AWB and deserves attention. "Your papers please" does not even come close to the kind of sick shit that can be perpetrated if we allow national IDs to be instantiated.

Frankly, I don't even see the point of having a driver's license since all it has become is a way to keep track of where people live. It certainly has correlation to their skill at driving a car.

I agree with you completely but look at the other side and ask yourself is it more dangerous if we don’t. Overseas has been doing it for years with the passport and only recently they have relaxed some bit with the formation of the EU. The fuckers that they are trying to bag with this system are the most cunning MF’s ever born and get wiser everyday they have had years of practice circumventing the systems. I deal with a passport all the time when traveling and am use to it but at first it was different for me. If you’re worried about big brother knowing about your where-a bouts and you’re an average law-abiding Joe no need to worry they already do with the current ID.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:50:42 AM EST
The problem is a lack of national standards when it comes to drivers licenses. If a person gets revoked in IL it is very easy to go to WI and get one. In addition to terrorism and illegal aliens, identity theft is also a very real problem. I dont like the idea of a national Id either. I do believe that there should be a federal requirement to have a biometric identifier in ,addition to a photo, attached to the DL.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:51:55 AM EST
I have one.
It's called my military ID card.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 3:54:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By thelibertarian:
"Your papers please"



So what is an officer saying when you get pulled over for an improper lane change, or too much mud on your license plate.
They ask for your papers.
It is already too late.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:46:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By SIGNAL4L:
The problem is a lack of national standards when it comes to drivers licenses. If a person gets revoked in IL it is very easy to go to WI and get one. In addition to terrorism and illegal aliens, identity theft is also a very real problem. I dont like the idea of a national Id either. I do believe that there should be a federal requirement to have a biometric identifier in ,addition to a photo, attached to the DL.



your papers please.

Nazism
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 4:53:57 AM EST

Originally Posted By mayday:


"He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name. This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. (Rev. 13:16-18).



hhahahhahahahahahahahhahh
<­BR>*wipes tear from his eye*

oh wait, were you serious?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:27:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By SIGNAL4L:
The problem is a lack of national standards when it comes to drivers licenses. If a person gets revoked in IL it is very easy to go to WI and get one. In addition to terrorism and illegal aliens, identity theft is also a very real problem. I dont like the idea of a national Id either. I do believe that there should be a federal requirement to have a biometric identifier in ,addition to a photo, attached to the DL.



You can't hold a DL in more than one state legaly, and if yer revoked in Ill, you won't be getting one in WI, especially as a non resident.

I don't like the idea of a national ID but I do like the Idea of a national DL which would in the end end up like the SS card, it wasn't suposed to be a form of ID but damn if evey one don't ask for yer SS number as a way to verify ID in a lot of things.

Perhaps doing something to improve the sharing of DL info amongst states would be a good idea though.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:30:24 AM EST
You mean like the drivers lisence?

Or our SSN number?

Or our finger prints?

COme on guys!


They already know ALL about us. In todays world it is IMPOSSIBLE to survive without ID.

SGat1r5
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:33:06 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
You mean like the drivers license?

Or our SSN number?

Or our finger prints?

Come on guys!


They already know ALL about us. In todays world it is IMPOSSIBLE to survive without ID.

SGat1r5



WERD...there hasn't been any real privacy in this country for decades...
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:38:59 AM EST
THIS IS HAPPENING!

IT IS JUST ANOTHER INCREMENTAL (SP?) STEP IN THE PURGING OF CIVIL LIBERTIES!

IT FALLS RIGHT IN LINE W/:

RFID CHIPS
BLACK BOXES (GPS) IN YOUR VEHICLE
CHIPS UNDER THE SKIN
ETC!


WAKE UP PEOPLE!!
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:41:04 AM EST

Originally Posted By JHill:
THIS IS HAPPENING!

IT IS JUST ANOTHER INCREMENTAL (SP?) STEP IN THE PURGING OF CIVIL LIBERTIES!

IT FALLS RIGHT IN LINE W/:

RFID CHIPS
BLACK BOXES (GPS) IN YOUR VEHICLE
CHIPS UNDER THE SKIN
ETC!


WAKE UP PEOPLE!!



How many chips do you have installed in you?

SGatr15
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:42:11 AM EST
I got one it's called a passport
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:45:15 AM EST
I would be happy to have a national ID cardf if it came with significant security feature to prevent fraud.

We accept a national ID card. In exchange any illegal immigrant found in the country is immediately deported. Plus make identity theft a capital crime. Those two steps would do so much to improve our quality of life.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:46:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By RikWriter:
No, actually there is no NEWS about a National ID "coming our way," there's simply a Ron Paul editorial decrying the idea of a national ID. More rumormongering and alarmism from our resident troll.



Why am I a resident troll? What trolling did I do?

Ron Paul doesn't write about things unless he thinks there is a possibility that it might happen. He's a good guy. The best.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:48:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By twonami:
I got one it's called a passport



Think of National ID as "internal passport" and you start to get a different impression of what we are dealing with here.

Look, all I am saying is that if there is any possibility whatsoever that they may try something like this, then it is worth the same amount of time and effort that all of you spent on the AWB doing something on this as well. We can win one battle and lose the war, you know?

Jeez. Why are people making me out to be the bad guy in this?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:51:20 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
I would be happy to have a national ID cardf if it came with significant security feature to prevent fraud.

We accept a national ID card. In exchange any illegal immigrant found in the country is immediately deported. Plus make identity theft a capital crime. Those two steps would do so much to improve our quality of life.



There is no ID system ever created that can't be cracked. Sorry, no chance of preventing fraud. Fraud will happen. Fraud can never be eliminated as a risk, only managed. In fact, such a system would make ID theft easier, not harder.

Successfully dealing with illegal immigration does not require a nation ID system. European countries with National IDs have had no success at controlling immigration.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 5:53:35 AM EST

Originally Posted By AR15fan:
I would be happy to have a national ID cardf if it came with significant security feature to prevent fraud.



"I would be happy to have my child chipped so that they could always track him and have immediate location id if he was ever abducted--do it for the children"

Would you take a chip under your skin if your employer mandated it to even get into the building?

They just did that in Mexico--160+ workers for the gov were required to get chipped just to receive their next paycheck.

You don't get it--Our gov wants everyone INSIDE the US to receive a chip and/or id card(that has a chip in it), yet they continue to allow ILLEGALS to walk right across the borders and then want to extend ssn/welfare/medical benefits to them.

ILLEGAL ALIENS ARE RECEIVING MORE RIGHTS AND BENEFITS THAN WE ARE!!
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:00:32 AM EST

Originally Posted By sgtar15:
You mean like the drivers lisence?



I just want a driver's license to be about driving and nothing else. A simple thing, really.


Or our SSN number?


You're kidding right? The SSN is the perfect example of incrementalism and a bad system--your SSN is both a token and a password at different times.



Or our finger prints?


Read up on biometrics. Fingerprints have been shown to be highly unreliable in turns out. The danger is, once someone steals your biometric, what do you do? You can't change your eyes, fingers, whatever.


COme on guys!

They already know ALL about us. In todays world it is IMPOSSIBLE to survive without ID.



Don't be defeatist. Yes, if you are targeted the sky is the limit. But we CAN survive without ID, ID systems are complete bullshit fairy tales--false security in all regards.

Yeah, come on! I came to this board because I was impressed with the level of involvement you guys had in getting the AWB to sunset. You have no idea what a huge deal that was to pull that off. Now let's get some other reforms started and head off some really bad things if possible.

Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:02:21 AM EST
fine by me, I have nothing to hide
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:06:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By twonami:
I got one it's called a passport


ditto
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:08:51 AM EST

Originally Posted By thelibertarian:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:
No, actually there is no NEWS about a National ID "coming our way," there's simply a Ron Paul editorial decrying the idea of a national ID. More rumormongering and alarmism from our resident troll.



Why am I a resident troll?



God knows. Genetics? Diet? Environment? Medical science is still searching for the answer.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:11:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 6:12:07 AM EST by Admiral_Crunch]
I haven't really read too much about this issue. What do people see as the downside of a national ID card? The implanted-chip thing bothers me, but why does a card bother people?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:13:35 AM EST
I think we need barcodes on our neck
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:13:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:
I haven't really read too much about this issue. What do people see as the downside of a national ID card? The implanted-chip thing bothers me, but why does a card bother people?



The card will have its own chip in it. One possible outcome is that in the future when we are living in a cashless society--you will not be able to buy/sell (food, etc) w/o your chip (implanted or otherwise)

Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:17:20 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:27:22 AM EST

Originally Posted By JHill:
The card will have its own chip in it. One possible outcome is that in the future when we are living in a cashless society--you will not be able to buy/sell (food, etc) w/o your chip (implanted or otherwise)



I don't think a cashless society is going to happen anytime soon. What about private party sales? There has to be a way for my neighbor to buy my old lawn mower.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:28:23 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 6:29:00 AM EST by Camper17]

Quoted from the link:
The much-hailed 9/11 Commission report released in July recommends a federal identification card and, worse, a "larger network of screening points" inside the United States.



And isn't John Kerry the one saying that Pres. Bush should be adopting everything the 9/11 Commission has recommended

Camper
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:34:28 AM EST
Take for example the Exxon Speed Pass--A cashless way to purchase fuel, just swipe your card and it automatically debits your account...
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:37:37 AM EST

Originally Posted By JHill:
Take for example the Exxon Speed Pass--A cashless way to purchase fuel, just swipe your card and it automatically debits your account...



How is this different from using a credit/debit card?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:41:11 AM EST
I am just saying it is a form of acclimation to what lies ahead...

Another example--thumb printing at a bank when you cash a check

They introduce this stuff to acclimate us for what lies ahead.
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:44:46 AM EST

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:
How is this different from using a credit/debit card?




The end event is to centralize all of your transactions linked by your id #.

i heard on the radio last week that in Texas somewhere a couple of tanning salons were requiring people to thumb print or something or other just to use their services. Hello!?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:50:17 AM EST

Originally Posted By JHill:

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:
How is this different from using a credit/debit card?




The end event is to centralize all of your transactions linked by your id #.

i heard on the radio last week that in Texas somewhere a couple of tanning salons were requiring people to thumb print or something or other just to use their services. Hello!?



So people who don't wish to do that will not use their business. They're a private business right? The government isn't REQUIRING them to do this, are they?
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 6:58:41 AM EST
Here's more...

cashless pay at grocery
"Grocery store goes to fingerprint payments
Piggly Wiggly debuts feature, privacy expert slams new technology"

ride bus
"Have your thumb ready to ride the bus
Pinellas schools ponder a $2-million system that would require students to use their thumbprint to get on the bus."

rfid
"Target issues RFID mandate
The move echoes a similar decision last year by Wal-Mart"
Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:03:45 AM EST
This one will make you go "hmmm"

your money?
"RFID Tags in New US Notes Explode When You Try to Microwave Them "

Link Posted: 9/7/2004 7:04:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/7/2004 7:21:00 AM EST by Dave_A]

Originally Posted By thelibertarian:
Ron Paul wrote this:

National ID Editorial

To me, this is a much more dangerous issue than the AWB and deserves attention. "Your papers please" does not even come close to the kind of sick shit that can be perpetrated if we allow national IDs to be instantiated.

Frankly, I don't even see the point of having a driver's license since all it has become is a way to keep track of where people live. It certainly has correlation to their skill at driving a car.



LONG OVERDUE...

Currently we have social security cards (de-fact NID, but not enough info), Drivers Licenses (state by state differences, no integration)....

There SHOULD be one national ID card for everyone, by SSN. It should carry drivers licensing information, CCW permit(s) held, and enough ID info to make it definative...

The current system is bloated, expensive, and wasteful...

It is impossible to operate in today's society without identificatio... Credit, purchasing age restricted items, etc...

We are not going back to down-on-the-farm 1840s life where you never leave your home town, much less home state, and everyone does business in cash, no matter how much the luddites wish for it...

Wr allready have national ID thru minimum drivers-license content standards, the problem is that it is not fully integrated, and is thus innacurate and wasteful.

Your ID should carry a digital photo of yourself, a photo printed on the outside, a thumbprint scan, and all licenses (CCW permits, driver's, pilot's, etc) in one card. Yes, it should have a smartcard chip... Welcome to the future, folks... Oh, and put your voter registration on there too with fingerprint verification - no card, sorry, no votie (and thus no more 'Dead Men for Democrats' or 'Illegal Aliens for Democrats' campaigns).

We aren't talking about a program of checkpoints & searches here - they could do that now with driver's licenses, and a NID

Think of all the problems it would solve...

1) It would make immigration enforcement so much easier. No ID? No job! Employer gets caught with any employees who did not file verification of ID? Huge fine and or prison...

2) Voter fraud. See above

3) ID Theft/Fakes. With more sophisticated info, it would cut down on one's ability to pretend to be someone else (from the 17yo buying an illegal pack of beer to the career criminal stealing credit thru ID theft)

4) Simplification of criminal procedure/warrants/etc... Everything goes in the system, no one gets off because their records aren't online...

5) Streamlines CCW procedures... No need for a separate carry-cards, easier to establish that you have a valid out-of-state license, etc...
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