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Posted: 8/21/2006 7:41:45 PM EDT
Two have dropped out from the heat. One died, the one today is critical. Curiously they are both women.



Guardsman dies after collapsing from heat
BY JAMES GILBERT, Sun Staff Writer
Published on: August 14, 2006



A 36-year-old woman with the Pennsylvania National Guard died after collapsing during a training mission near Yuma along the U.S.-Mexico border, a guard spokesman said on Friday.

"It’s very sad and very tragic," said Maj. Timi Reed, with the Arizona National Guard.

Spc. Kristen Fike, of Warren, was two hours into the first day of a border surveillance mission when she collapsed Wednesday. She died the following day at Yuma Regional Medical Center.

"Combat life savers and medics were on the scene and offered immediate medical attention," Reed said. "She was transferred to the hospital within minutes."

With temperatures over 100-degrees on Wednesday, the death may be heat-related, but no official cause has been determined yet, Reed said.

Fike, a member of the Greensburg-based detachment of the 28th Military Police Co., joined the National Guard last month after having served on active duty in the Air Force, Reed said.

About 60 members of the company were serving their annual two-weeks-per-year active duty stint by working along the border in support of Operation Jump Start, which is designed to stem the flow of illegal immigrants crossing the southern border.

"A lot of units from around the country are coming here in support of the mission," Reed said.

In May, President Bush announced plans to send 6,000 National Guard troops from across the country to support the Border Patrol.

Operation Jump Start is intended to free up Border Patrol officers for active patrols while the guard members build fences, conduct routine surveillance and take care of administrative duties.

The unit was the first detachment from the Pennsylvania National Guard to serve in support of the operation.

James Gilbert can be reached at
jgilbert@yumasun.com or 539-6854.



And today's:

Guardsman taken to hospital for heat stroke

BY JEFFREY GAUTREAUX, SUN STAFF WRITER
Aug 21, 2006, 7:37 pm

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A female National Guard member was rushed to the hospital Monday after being overcome by the heat on the border.

The San Luis Fire Department transported the woman at emergency speed to Yuma Regional Medical Center around 4 p.m., according to spokesman Luis Cebreros.

Cebreros did not have any update on her condition Monday evening but said she was suffering from extreme dehydration when paramedics reached her at County 22nd Street and the Levee Road.

"When you have extreme dehydration, there can be disorientation, they can be really hot to the touch, and they can even stop sweating because they've sweated everything out," he said.

Earlier this month, another female member of the National Guard suffered heat stroke and had to be airlifted to the hospital. Spc. Kristen Fike of Warren, Pa., a member of the Pennsylvania National Guard, died the following day at YRMC.

Cebreros said the woman taken to the hospital Monday was posted in the area to watch the border. He did not know where she was from.

National Guard units are in the Yuma area as part of Operation Jumpstart, which is intended to free up Border Patrol officers for active patrols while the guard members build fences, conduct routine surveillance and take care of administrative duties.

Messages left with the Arizona National Guard and Yuma Sector Border Patrol were not immediately returned Monday.

Jeffrey Gautreaux can be reached at jgautreaux@yumasun.com or 539-6858
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 7:45:49 PM EDT
I dbout they do intense training on surviving and enduring extreme heat, my guess is they likely have the common, "drink lots of water" mandatory safety brief and not much more.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 7:51:17 PM EDT
It's a shame since it is very preventable with the drinking of plenty of water.

When I was stationed in Yakima, we ALWAYS carried two or three 5 gallon containers of water in leu of our canteens when going downrange in the Summer this was in case our vehicle got damaged, failed to start, or we found some other GI's in need of water as many places downrange there was no comm. It was almost a 20 or 30 mile hike back to civization there and over a 100 degrees all summer long. One always has to be careful in the desert to drink a lot of water as one's sweat dries almost instantly and it is easy to forget/realize that your losing a lot of water till it is too late.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 7:52:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By barkley-addict:
I dbout they do intense training on surviving and enduring extreme heat, my guess is they likely have the common, "drink lots of water" mandatory safety brief and not much more.


What else can you do other than stay in the shade and drink water?

I'm a civvy, not .mil, eat me nicely please.

Link Posted: 8/21/2006 7:52:52 PM EDT
hydrate!
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 7:59:40 PM EDT
it got far hotter in baghdad, and we didn't have people dropping like flies. Heck, we didn't have a single person in our sqdn suffer any major heat problems.

Drink plenty of water, stay cool, and don't over do it.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 8:01:50 PM EDT
What else can you do other than stay in the shade and drink water?

As mentioned, your sweat evaporates in that type of heat before it can have a cooling effect, what you have to do is have lots of water to mist or soak your clothes, cotton, which soaks up water the best, and that creates artificial sweat. also pouring cold or at least cool water over your head often does wonders to reduce temps. Also you obviously have to have cold water, it's being used as a coolant afterall, so warm water doesn't do much to cool you off, it only hydrates. And canteens don't do much to maintain cold water.
So the military should do more to somehow make "cold" water plentifiul, even used to soak or mist the troops often, might seem like a waste but there's no more effective way to cool off them with cold water over the head and clothes and in your system.

But I know this from endurance sports, not themilitary. I'm surprised by the people who sit in the sun and roast during an outside class, while I pour water all over my head and down my back and in my hat and feel a lot better.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 8:04:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By patchouli:
hydrate!


Or turn into a giant prune.

And die.

Link Posted: 8/21/2006 8:05:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By barkley-addict:
What else can you do other than stay in the shade and drink water?

As mentioned, your sweat evaporates in that type of heat before it can have a cooling effect, what you have to do is have lots of water to mist or soak your clothes, cotton, which soaks up water the best, and that creates artificial sweat. also pouring cold or at least cool water over your head often does wonders to reduce temps. Also you obviously have to have cold water, it's being used as a coolant afterall, so warm water doesn't do much to cool you off, it only hydrates. And canteens don't do much to maintain cold water.
So the military should do more to somehow make "cold" water plentifiul, even used to soak or mist the troops often, might seem like a waste but there's no more effective way to cool off them with cold water over the head and clothes and in your system.

But I know this from endurance sports, not themilitary. I'm surprised by the people who sit in the sun and roast during an outside class, while I pour water all over my head and down my back and in my hat and feel a lot better.


Very informative, thanks!

Link Posted: 8/21/2006 8:10:50 PM EDT
I am not sure that more water would help, I grew up in the So. Calif Mojave Desert, home of Ft Irwin NTC etc etc, and it get hot out there. I think the women died from heat exhaustion, too much activity in hot weather. Working in +100ºF you should be very careful of strenuous activity.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 8:11:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2006 8:12:25 PM EDT by Bohr_Adam]
My gut tells me that, while water was plenty available, time and access to latrine facilities was probably not. Many female Soldiers limit water intake to avoid needing to urinate frequently.

Leaders must allow frequent access to such facilities in training or heat injuries will always occur at a higher rate among females. Trainers and leaders used to all male units often give little regard to such things, since men will find the time and disappear around a corner for a few seconds as necessary.

That, or they were overweight and out of shape.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 8:23:11 PM EDT
There's obviously insufficient info to come to any conclusion, but we can't forget water intoxication. Although from the above posts, it sounds like it was a problem of far too little water rather than too much. And too much physical activity and not enough time to acclimate to the new temperature conditions.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 8:31:26 PM EDT
We have had several days here with the temp between 105 and 110. Most important thing you have working outside on these days is your water bottle or jug.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 8:55:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2006 8:55:38 PM EDT by KnobCreek]

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
My gut tells me that, while water was plenty available, time and access to latrine facilities was probably not. Many female Soldiers limit water intake to avoid needing to urinate frequently.

Leaders must allow frequent access to such facilities in training or heat injuries will always occur at a higher rate among females. Trainers and leaders used to all male units often give little regard to such things, since men will find the time and disappear around a corner for a few seconds as necessary.

That, or they were overweight and out of shape.


I"m sure that contributes. These folks should be given some time to acclimate. Christ, in the A/C working as an accountant on a Friday, standing in the middle of AZ/TX/NM "desert" a few weeks later (and not in shorts, flip-flops and a t-shirt) Age, lack of conditioning, etc. Not an environment you just up and start working in one day.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 9:00:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By patchouli:
hydrate!


Not as simple as that, I'm afraid.

When we (Our company) started our ops in Iraq, we had a spate of people going down. It turned out that the problem wasn't a lack of water, it was too much water. They were guzzling down the H-2-O, but a combination of the heat and the work schedule meant that they didn't feel overly inclined to eat. They simply flushed all the electrolytes out of their system and didn't replace them. We ended up aquiring a lot of Gatorade after that, and made sure people got a good meal in every now and then, didn't have a problem after that.

NTM
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 9:06:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C-4:
There's obviously insufficient info to come to any conclusion, but we can't forget water intoxication. Although from the above posts, it sounds like it was a problem of far too little water rather than too much. And too much physical activity and not enough time to acclimate to the new temperature conditions.


+1, thats so true. Thats why the sports drinks are sometimes preferred.

But I think most likely they were overweight and out of shape.

Fat is an EXCELLENT insulator and they overheated.

You go from a 70 degree airconditioned sedenary life to 110 in the shade in 1 day and it will happen.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 9:14:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2006 9:15:10 PM EDT by BillofRights]

Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam:
My gut tells me that, while water was plenty available, time and access to latrine facilities was probably not. Many female Soldiers limit water intake to avoid needing to urinate frequently.

Leaders must allow frequent access to such facilities in training or heat injuries will always occur at a higher rate among females. Trainers and leaders used to all male units often give little regard to such things, since men will find the time and disappear around a corner for a few seconds as necessary.

That, or they were overweight and out of shape.



I have a hunch that you are correct. False modesty is a stupid reason to die, but there you have it.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 9:15:42 PM EDT


this is so damn preventable.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 9:34:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By barkley-addict:

As mentioned, your sweat evaporates in that type of heat before it can have a cooling effect,


Huh? Evaporating is the means by which it causes a cooling effect, evaporating faster would cool more. I don't get what you're getting at.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 9:40:37 PM EDT
I know they have plenty of gatorade and water. I am here in NM and we have it stacked to the rafters and keep track of it religiously. It is the same way accross the whole AO but thankfully it's been quite moderate here with just a shitload of rain hammering us causing localized flooding.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 10:49:32 PM EDT
It takes 2weeks to acclimate and keep hydrating.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 11:34:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By barkley-addict:
What else can you do other than stay in the shade and drink water?

Also you obviously have to have cold water, it's being used as a coolant afterall, so warm water doesn't do much to cool you off, it only hydrates. And canteens don't do much to maintain cold water.

So the military should do more to somehow make "cold" water plentifiul, even used to soak or mist the troops often, might seem like a waste but there's no more effective way to cool off them with cold water over the head and clothes and in your system.


I never died in the desert from drinking hot water. In Oregon, water out of my canteen or cans would probably be considered ready for making tea. It's not the temperature, it's how much. Acclimitization probably was a huge factor for these two, too. As was said, they probably had none.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 7:57:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2006 8:16:30 AM EDT by barkley-addict]


I never died in the desert from drinking hot water. In Oregon, water out of my canteen or cans would probably be considered ready for making tea. It's not the temperature, it's how much. Acclimitization probably was a huge factor for these two, too. As was said, they probably had none.

Hot or warm water is going to warm you up inside, just the way hot chocolate does in the winter when you're chilled. Ice or cold water internally and out is going to drop your temperature faster than anything else, just the way cold water quickly sucks all body heat out of a person if they fall into freezing water , where the survival time in that water becomes only a few minutes.

You might not have died in the desert with hot water, but, that's only 1 aspect of it, cold water is only a tool to use against problems caused by heat, it's almost certainly a combination of things, lack of cold water, wrong clothes, to much activity, like a machine that runs to hard and overheats, ect.,...
......


Link Posted: 8/22/2006 8:15:04 AM EDT
Evaporating is the means by which it causes a cooling effect, evaporating faster would cool more. I don't get what you're getting at.

The sweat is what cools a person off, if it evaporates almost instantly in extreme dry heat, there isn't any cooling effect, or it's not as effective. Have you ever been in a place like death valley in july? You get out of a pool and you're dry without a towell in hardly a minute. That's the concept, no sweat no cooling effect.
But if the sweat is trapped and absorbed into something which soaks up water before it gets to that dry hot air, such as cotton, there's a cooling effect. You create "artificial" sweat likewise by pouring cold water over yourself and saturating your clothes.

It's the opposite of hypothermia and the concept of cotton as the "death cloth", many a foolish hiker freezes to death because they go hiking in cold temps in jeans and cotton tee shirts underneath. The cotton soaks up their sweat when they're active, and never drys out, so eventually they have a layer of cold to freezing water sucking all the heat out of their body.
Opposite in extreme heat, you wear cotton, not the newer wicking materials often worn by athletes and the military.

I know from training for and completing a trek across death valley on foot in july in 120 some degree heat. There's a race there every year. I've even written 2 of the articles in their preperation for the heat index listed below.

www.badwater.com/training/index.html


Granted though an athlete has the opportunity to concentrate on just running and being cool, where as the military has other priorites regardless of harsh environment.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 8:15:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By patchouli:
hydrate!



1+ on that we worked in 120 deg heat in the shad when I was in Iraq and most of the time where where running around on foot or trapped in the Humvees that where nothing more then a rolling hot box and all we did was drink water and Gatorade the whole time. When your not paroling you drink water or gatorade until your pissing white and having to take a piss every 15 to 30 mins!!
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 8:27:38 AM EDT
"If you ain't pissing, something's missing."

Some people find the taste of Gatorade unpalatable. Cutting it 50/50 with water is a good remedy. Sounds like Fike was from AZ?- that's my take. I'll bet the NG from WI or MN sent down there would really need to acclimate.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 8:47:38 AM EDT

Many female Soldiers limit water intake to avoid needing to urinate frequently.


Yup. Is true.

My younger sister is a Sgt in the Army Reserves. She has a couple of females in her group that will NOT pee in the woods ! They will hold it all day until they get to "civilized" facilities.

Drives her crazy...
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 9:05:38 AM EDT
What alot of people don't think about is "PreHydrating" before you go out into the heat.
Alot of people walk around every day in one state of dehydration or another. In this world of soda, coffee tea and other caffeinated drinks it is really easy to be dehydrated on a daily basis. But, because most people spend almost their entire life in the A/C it doesn't cause them any noticeable problems.

If you know you will be out in the heat and or doing a physically demanding job start "prehydrating the day and night before. If you let yourself get behind the curve it is very hard to catch up.....almost impossible in some conditions.

Link Posted: 8/22/2006 9:51:12 AM EDT
Awww...

Poor things.

It was only 100* out?!? Its like 95* at NIGHT here.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 10:18:51 AM EDT
I used to be a telco contractor in AZ and man it gets hot as hell when you're outside all day. I once drank some water that sat in my truck for 30 min. and was hot as hell. It made me throw up. I used to fill up a whole ice chest with gatorade, water, tea and red bull with 2 bags of ice and the ice would only make it till about 2:00. I can see this happening to people who don't take precautions.

I'll never forget the clock/thermometer at the bank one off of camelback rd. 7:00 at night and still 117 deg.. But it's a dry heat.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 2:38:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2006 2:39:47 PM EDT by AZ-K9]

Originally Posted By tyman:
Awww...

Poor things.

It was only 100* out?!? Its like 95* at NIGHT here.


Gets a lot hotter than 100 and stays about 95 at night where they are at. I talked with the Border Patrol Supervisor about it today and he told me the Guard is attempting to simulate the war environment and purposefully putting them out there with no AC, etc. They have tents for shade and are working 24 hour shifts.

Aside from the IEDs and gunfire I suspect environmental conditions are similar to the sand box.(Should have seen the ridiculous sandstorm we had last night). I do not think they are wearing plates however....
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 4:49:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By tyman:
Awww...

Poor things.

It was only 100* out?!? Its like 95* at NIGHT here.


Gets a lot hotter than 100 and stays about 95 at night where they are at. I talked with the Border Patrol Supervisor about it today and he told me the Guard is attempting to simulate the war environment and purposefully putting them out there with no AC, etc. They have tents for shade and are working 24 hour shifts.

Aside from the IEDs and gunfire I suspect environmental conditions are similar to the sand box.(Should have seen the ridiculous sandstorm we had last night). I do not think they are wearing plates however....


+1. Sorry boss, but there are plenty of 100 degree nights in Yuma from what I here, and if it was only 100 degrees during that day, it must have been a cold front.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 6:15:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2006 6:27:09 PM EDT by Tromatic]

Originally Posted By barkley-addict:
Evaporating is the means by which it causes a cooling effect, evaporating faster would cool more. I don't get what you're getting at.

The sweat is what cools a person off, if it evaporates almost instantly in extreme dry heat, there isn't any cooling effect, or it's not as effective. Have you ever been in a place like death valley in july? You get out of a pool and you're dry without a towell in hardly a minute. That's the concept, no sweat no cooling effect.
But if the sweat is trapped and absorbed into something which soaks up water before it gets to that dry hot air, such as cotton, there's a cooling effect. You create "artificial" sweat likewise by pouring cold water over yourself and saturating your clothes.

It's the opposite of hypothermia and the concept of cotton as the "death cloth", many a foolish hiker freezes to death because they go hiking in cold temps in jeans and cotton tee shirts underneath. The cotton soaks up their sweat when they're active, and never drys out, so eventually they have a layer of cold to freezing water sucking all the heat out of their body.
Opposite in extreme heat, you wear cotton, not the newer wicking materials often worn by athletes and the military.

I know from training for and completing a trek across death valley on foot in july in 120 some degree heat. There's a race there every year. I've even written 2 of the articles in their preperation for the heat index listed below.

www.badwater.com/training/index.html


Granted though an athlete has the opportunity to concentrate on just running and being cool, where as the military has other priorites regardless of harsh environment.


If I was not intoxicated, I would say almost everything you say is wrong. If the sweat evaporates, even in Death Valley, it is cooling you. You do not sweat faster. I have not seen anyone burst like a water balloon. How do you explain some dump like Okinawa, where it's 120 and 99 per cent humidity, working 18-hour days? Soaking wet all the time, yet you perspire. It may not evaporate like it does in death valley, but if you chose to not re-hydrate you would soon be dead. Constant, steady replacement of water and electrolytes, period.

At some point the termerature is so high you bake regardless, but humans arre tough as long as you give them time to adapt. Some person from nice, cool PA who thinks a Coke is good for rehydration is going to die regardless.

ETA: Being cool is low on the list. I've never been hotter in my life, and that was humping hills in October. My comfort was unimportant. Ensuring that the machinery had the chemicals it needed to continue was.


But if the sweat is trapped and absorbed into something which soaks up water before it gets to that dry hot air, such as cotton, there's a cooling effect. You create "artificial" sweat likewise by pouring cold water over yourself and saturating your clothes.


Much the same effect can be had by pouring that water down your gullet and having it wind up in your clothes by perspiration. Rather than being "cool" for 5 minutes, you might live a while longer.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 6:38:47 PM EDT
Wimmin shouldn't be in the military. What a dumb politically correct idea. Cooks or clerks maybe but that's it.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 7:07:25 PM EDT
D**n! There's no excuse for this. It happened really frequently in the American Civil War where soldiers went on long marches, ran out of water and kept marching - til they dropped dead. Modernly, I can't see why they can't have water resupply along the route so they can hydrate themselves.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 7:49:50 PM EDT


If I was not intoxicated, I would say almost everything you say is wrong. If the sweat evaporates, even in Death Valley, it is cooling you.

Wrong, if it evaporates in an instant, as it does in extreme dry heat, it has done nothing but pass through a person's pours into the air, that accomplishes nothing in cooling a person off.

How do you explain some dump like Okinawa, where it's 120 and 99 per cent humidity, working 18-hour days? Soaking wet all the time, yet you perspire.

You ever dripped sweat? It runs off.

It may not evaporate like it does in death valley, but if you chose to not re-hydrate you would soon be dead. Constant, steady replacement of water and electrolytes, period.

I didn't suggest dehydration wasn't a critical aspect of it. I wrote that it's a number of factors, but that the methods described combined are the best ways to prevent heat related illnesses.


Being cool is low on the list. I've never been hotter in my life, and that was humping hills in October. My comfort was unimportant. Ensuring that the machinery had the chemicals it needed to continue was.

You must be talking about dehydration only? Otherwise how could you suggest being cool, body temp, is low on the list of factors for heat related illnesses? Does a cool engine overheat?



Much the same effect can be had by pouring that water down your gullet and having it wind up in your clothes by perspiration. Rather than being "cool" for 5 minutes, you might live a while longer.

For the 2nd time, I wrote about a combination of methods that are best for preventing these situations, if the military would make certain all of these things were done, there would be fewer instances of heat related illnesses.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 8:01:37 PM EDT
Some very good points have been mentioned so far, but if you really must know where the fault lays it’s with their NCO's! Be it too much water (hyponatremia), or too little water, it is incumbent on their NCO's to stay on top of their troops and make sure they're hydrating and eating.

Let’s face it not all Soldiers will listen to us medical folks when we give them the endless lessons on how to properly hydrate themselves in such a harsh environment. It is up to the NCOs to take over and ensure their troops follow the instruction. If it has to go as far as the NCO standing there and watching each troop take down xxxx amount of water, eat xxx amount of food, etc, then so be it!

I spent 18 months in Iraq (two tours) and not one of my Marines succumbed to heat related injuries. Why? Because I made sure that the NCOs were well educated in proper hydration procedures, and I made sure that they knew that the Officers would hold them accountable if one of their Marines went down with a heat related injury......
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 8:58:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 4v50:
D**n! There's no excuse for this. It happened really frequently in the American Civil War where soldiers went on long marches, ran out of water and kept marching - til they dropped dead. Modernly, I can't see why they can't have water resupply along the route so they can hydrate themselves.


I suppose it's most likely Bush's fault.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 9:15:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2006 9:21:33 PM EDT by Tromatic]

Originally Posted By barkley-addict:
For the 2nd time, I wrote about a combination of methods that are best for preventing these situations, if the military would make certain all of these things were done, there would be fewer instances of heat related illnesses.


Well, I only have 20-some years of military experience. The war was never called on account of heat, or cold water to pour on the troops. As long as there was enough water to put IN the troops, the fight went on. You talk about comfort, I mean survival. Two different things. The "military" has keeping the physical human running down to a science. Leadership and supervision are where it fails. If you find yourself in a situation where you can douse yourself at will with water to be cool, I would suggest you are not at war.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 9:24:50 PM EDT
In the words of my immortal Drill Sgt.

DRINK WATER MAGGOTS!!!!

That and keep track of the heat index. One must be conditioned to extreme environments. I grew up in Southern AZ and it's freaking hot. Doesn't bother you if you body is acclimated, that's why they have that word acclimated.

You cannot acclimate in two weeks or two hours. As a medic I know you must keep a very close eye on your troops in high temp. environs.
Link Posted: 8/22/2006 11:39:40 PM EDT
Well, I only have 20-some years of military experience. The war was never called on account of heat, or cold water to pour on the troops. As long as there was enough water to put IN the troops, the fight went on. You talk about comfort, I mean survival. Two different things. The "military" has keeping the physical human running down to a science. Leadership and supervision are where it fails.

You're arguing a particular situation, war, against some simple facts about preventing heat illnesses, as if they change what I wrote. In an earlier post I also wrote that the military has priorites that demand enduring harsh evnironments. I'm in the military myself, re enlisted in march and served 1st way back in '86.

If you find yourself in a situation where you can douse yourself at will with water to be cool, I would suggest you are not at war.

I'd suggest that they aren't at war on the border. The u.s. has a 360 some billion $ defense budget, if they're going to use national guard soldiers on the border, then they shouldn't have soldiers die there because they don't provide every resource possible for them to remain hydrated and cool enough to be safe. That's my thoughts on the matter. War is rough, but that's not a reason to tell troops not in a warzone to just suck it up.
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