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Posted: 9/1/2005 1:49:32 PM EDT
I just heard a memeber of the National Guard say on the news that they cant shoot someone stealing somethign in N.O. So how do you stop the looting? People are running into the stores and taking stuff and the police and NG guys draw their guns on them, why even do this if they cant shoot? Some of these looters got to know that they cant be shot for stealing, so whats to stop them?

He did say they could shoot though if their life was in danger
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 1:58:04 PM EDT
"STOP! OR I'LL YELL STOP AGAIN"
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 1:59:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 2:00:11 PM EDT by vito113]
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:00:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:00:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:
Seems your National Guards has even less power than a British Bobby!



British Bobby's can shoot someone for taking a TV set? When did the British govt grow a pair?
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:00:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 2:01:08 PM EDT by KnobCreek]
"Oh my God, they're coming right for me" - see avatar
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:01:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigB1129:
I just heard a memeber of the National Guard say on the news that they cant shoot someone stealing somethign in N.O. So how do you stop the looting? People are running into the stores and taking stuff and the police and NG guys draw their guns on them, why even do this if they cant shoot? Some of these looters got to know that they cant be shot for stealing, so whats to stop them?

He did say they could shoot though if their life was in danger




That's whatcha get when you put lawyers in charge of "interpreting" the Founding Fathers' vision for this country.


(actually, putting looters in stocks might be as effective as shooting a few...)

Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:02:09 PM EDT
All the stores are probably picked clean at this point. It will get more interesting when the looters start stealing from each other. Then the NG can step back and let them kill each other hopefully.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:03:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 2:04:22 PM EDT by EPOCH96]
BUTT STROKE

Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:04:11 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:07:54 PM EDT
Why is the N.G. issued rifles? looters should be shot on sight.

Hell, why even show up?

Scott

Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:09:22 PM EDT
Ok...don't shoot them....use the TASER! All that water should make for some interesting results....
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:10:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EPOCH96:
BUTT STROKE

img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/Jbays/buttstroke.jpg



Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:11:31 PM EDT
I have an idea flex-cuff them to a storm drain. 12 gauges with rocksalt and rubber bullets.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:11:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Seems your National Guards has even less power than a British Bobby!



British Bobby's can shoot someone for taking a TV set? When did the British govt grow a pair?



I suspect they could in an emergency situation. That or they'd have the good sense to hire Germans to shoot them.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:12:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 2:13:10 PM EDT by ArmedAggie]
They'll probably not even be issued ammunition. Anyone else remember the gurads at the gates to the barracks in Beirut who had no magazines in their M-16s? Nothing bad can happen...
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:13:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:

Originally Posted By EPOCH96:
BUTT STROKE

img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/Jbays/buttstroke.jpg








EPOCH
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:16:31 PM EDT
Such an edict doesn't really surprise me.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:17:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 2:18:57 PM EDT by KlubMarcus]
Did you guys hear that the batch of Israeli 5.56mm rounds was sent to the US mainland because the Pentagon didn't want images of US soldiers firing Jewish bullets at enemy Muslims? Well now the National Guard can fire those Jew-bullets at ghetto people in 'Nawlins. Those evil dastardly Jews, so tricky of them to use the hurricane to oppress more colored folk!
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:18:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
They'll probably not even be issued ammunition. Anyone else remember the gurads at the gates to the barracks in Beirut who had no magazines in their M-16s? Nothing bad can happen...



Apparently some of the NG are issued ammo. Some fool tried to take a Guardsman's weapon and it discharged into the Guardsman's leg. Two other Guardsmen proceed to whip the shit out of the thug via buttstrokes.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:19:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vito113:

Originally Posted By Forest:

Originally Posted By vito113:
Seems your National Guards has even less power than a British Bobby!



British Bobby's can shoot someone for taking a TV set? When did the British govt grow a pair?



Roiters can be shot on the say so of a Chief Constable (aka Chief of Police), always been so.

Our Police shoot Brazilian illegals too…



Rightous! It used to be that way, but lately our politicos have traded in their sack for a skirt...
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:19:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigB1129:
I just heard a memeber of the National Guard say on the news that they cant shoot someone stealing somethign in N.O. So how do you stop the looting? People are running into the stores and taking stuff and the police and NG guys draw their guns on them, why even do this if they cant shoot? Some of these looters got to know that they cant be shot for stealing, so whats to stop them?

He did say they could shoot though if their life was in danger



That's one better than what the prior FLA governor did - the one who told the NG 'no ammo'....
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:20:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 2:20:39 PM EDT by KlubMarcus]

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:
Some fool tried to take a Guardsman's weapon and it discharged into the Guardsman's leg. Two other Guardsmen proceed to whip the shit out of the thug via buttstrokes.

Really? Pics Pics Pics! Coming up at 6pm, COPS at New Orleans with a special appearance by the Nat. Guard!
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:21:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 2:37:04 PM EDT by nightstalker]

Originally Posted By Bullitt3401:
Why is the N.G. issued rifles? looters should be shot on sight.

Hell, why even show up?

Scott




They didn't even have ammo in the Watts Riots in LA. It was at an armory at Ft. Roberts, 230 miles away I guess they think this is like a little political gathering on an Ohio college campus (Kent State) in the 60's and they don't want anyone to get hurt.

According to Michael Chertoff, our Sec. of Homeland Defense a National Guard troop had his weapons wrestled away and was shot in the leg before others interceded and put the perps under arrest. Helping your fellow man has at times been a thankless task.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:27:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 2:29:04 PM EDT by kill-9]

Originally Posted By BigB1129:
I just heard a memeber of the National Guard say on the news that they cant shoot someone stealing somethign in N.O. So how do you stop the looting? People are running into the stores and taking stuff and the police and NG guys draw their guns on them, why even do this if they cant shoot? Some of these looters got to know that they cant be shot for stealing, so whats to stop them?

He did say they could shoot though if their life was in danger



It's this kind of PC idiotry that keeps me out of the military. Every time I consider joining back up, a story such as this, involving orders from some asshat, desk flying, pencil pushing, bucking-for-one-star, chairborne ranger, Colonel reminds me that the enlisted pawns WILL be sacrificed for the sake of preventing a contentious press conference.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:27:45 PM EDT
I just got a slot on the server -- I had the player polling, waiting for a slot to free up, so when it connected, with the volume up full ... that "machine gun" effect when it first connects really gets your attention!

Nothing happening right now though ...
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:30:38 PM EDT
They have power, but have to follow the ROE: Do not shoot unless fired upon. Arrest and Detain. . . something like that. God bless all of them.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 2:31:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Forest:

Rightous! It used to be that way, but lately our politicos have traded in their sack for a skirt...



Its not so much that they lost their sacks, as it is that is the voting base for the democrat politicians. New Orleans is a greatly magnified example of the problem of big cities these days. The good people move outside the jurisdiction, which is good for them, but which means that the city pols are elected by the scum and vermin who vote for whoever gives them the most off the public tit.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:27:08 PM EDT
One unit took the ammunition away from the troops when waiting for the 'go' to invade Iraq in 2003 as a measure to reduce the negligent discharge rates.

When the Guard went down to the LA Riots in the '90s, my old-timers are telling me they went in with full combat loads.

They had a full 210 rounds for airport duty after 9/11 as well.

NTM
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:36:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4-CQBR:
They have power, but have to follow the ROE: Do not shoot unless fired upon. Arrest and Detain. . . something like that. God bless all of them.

Yep,when I was in the KY/CA/KY/TX/KY/IL/KY ArNG,and went for training in Civil Defense(riot control),we were told not to defend property,only human life.And you better be able to prove that it was justified!
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:40:35 PM EDT
I wouldn't be too worried about the looting in NOLA. Where are they going to take it. They are only going to be able to take what they can carry and I doubt the big screen TV is easily carried. Everything in that city is a loss anyway.

Is it appropriate behavior? No, but I would be more worried about SAR, food and water distribution, and stopping the insane violence.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:47:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 5:50:22 PM EDT by SteelonSteel]

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:

Originally Posted By ArmedAggie:
They'll probably not even be issued ammunition. Anyone else remember the gurads at the gates to the barracks in Beirut who had no magazines in their M-16s? Nothing bad can happen...



Apparently some of the NG are issued ammo. Some fool tried to take a Guardsman's weapon and it discharged into the Guardsman's leg. Two other Guardsmen proceed to whip the shit out of the thug via buttstrokes.



Now that is one they could have shot;
1) Thug is taking a weapon and could use it to take soldiers life,
(LEOs correctly assume the struggle over a weapon is to kill the officer)
2) Military use of force scale does allow for the use of deadly physical force to prevent the the theft of military weapons and munitions
3) It would be the right thing to do

My thoughts on the matter.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 5:48:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BigBore45:
"STOP! OR I'LL YELL STOP AGAIN"


Link Posted: 9/1/2005 6:20:15 PM EDT
Im headed to NO in a day or two and We are getting rounds but you cant just shoot someone for stealing a TV or something, now if they are harming other peeple the unit or oneself that is another story. I really dont care if they make off with a few pair of shoes or a tv ( theres no where to watch it and they damn sure aint gonna sell it) . Now if they are robbing gunstores are stuff that would proof a poosible threat then one would have to use the best judgment, these peolple are still Americans and i only shoot in a last resort which is probably what the NG and local LE think as well. We will be there as , search and rescue, humanitarian and riot control, not in that order. FWIW if i was that louisiana NG soldier that guy would have got the SLAM JAM, or maybe even worse.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:08:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Smithy:
Im headed to NO in a day or two and We are getting rounds

Are you guys getting issued the Israeli rounds?
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 6:52:47 AM EDT
How do you know they are thugs? Thugs will run, disciplined thugs will stand still. Get some.
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