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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/30/2005 5:10:51 AM EDT
So last night our local SWAT team asked my fire department for non-leo volunteers to play the parts of hostages and perps at the final test for the latest SWAT class. I, of course, volunteered to be a perp.

After waiting a while for the first group of victims senario participants to get done(and getting to get some hands on time with the SWAT team's toys) my turn came up. I got a mask, body armor, a hostage, my rules of engagement, and a simunitions Glock. My partner in crime, who has shot a gun once before in his life, was issued two hostages and two revolver simunition guns. We were then walked up to our rooms to get positioned and wait.

The waiting was the worst part. The police helicopter was flying about 200 feet AGL and shining its light into my otherwise pitch black room, ruining my nightvision and covering the noise of the team moving down the hallway.

A couple of flash bangs later (a rather unique experience) and I was in a shootout with three well armed men. I got around 6 shots off before taking a three round burst to my left arm and at that point gave up.

After Action Report:
- Flash bangs are increadible tools.
- The psychlogical effect of knowing there is a team out there waiting for me was increadible, and I knew at the end I was walking away with nothing worse than a couple of bruises.
- I ended up shooting two of the entry team, one in the neck protector and one in the arm.
- I have an even greater respect for our men and women who do this sort of work every day. I'll stick with the fires, they obey physics. Y'all can keep the crazy, unpredictable people.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:18:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 5:18:40 AM EDT by Admiral_Crunch]
Cool experience. How did the flashbang affect you?
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:19:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:
Cool experience. How did the flashbang affect you?





What?
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:21:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JarheadChiro:

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:
Cool experience. How did the flashbang affect you?





What?



TEH FLASH-BANG!
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:22:49 AM EDT
Yes, tell us more about the flashbang.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:28:03 AM EDT
Sounds like fun. The PD here in Austin invited us "hose handlers" for a little shootout about 3 years ago. They were doing HIP training using the old School for the Deaf. It wasn't the SWAT guys but just regular LEO learning how to stop a Columbine style situation. Everyone used paintball guns. In short, we lit them up and were not asked to return. Seemed like good training for them though. One thing that I noticed was that all that lining up 4 deep outside of a door or around a corner doesn't work unless you are throwing flash bangs and have the element of suprise. We just waited for them to get all bunched up and then attacked over and over. I would love to use some Simunitions sometime!

Debo
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:28:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/30/2005 5:32:12 AM EDT by hk940]
ED to say Tread lightly gentlemen.
we don't need to give perps ideas about how to kill cops and take down SWAT teams!


depending on ROE you can have a lot more fun with them. it all depends if you want to train them or defeat them.

still one dead and one crippled cop is a shameful ratio!
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:28:24 AM EDT

I was asked to do something very similiar, but at an Army base.

It is pretty damn cool

I got one guy center mass on his vest before I went down.
They asked me to decided if I was gonna shoot the hostage.
We spent about 2 hours on a 'hostage' phone beforehand so they could build a profile.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:31:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SmilingBandit:
I got around 6 shots off before taking a three round burst to my left arm and at that point gave up.



'Tis just a flesh wound!

No 'is not! Your arm's off!



I did something similar back in HS; some of the local cops played paintball on their off-days so they asked a few of us to stand in for their training, playing the part of a ficticious gang of meth cookers who were supposed to be arrested. We held their first attempt off without too much trouble (the "ram the door down and start yelling" entry) but their 2nd kicked our asses (flashbangs + multiple points of entry)

What I remember from it:
1) Simmunitions sting a little more than paintball
2) Banging the door down and yelling "get down" just makes for a really nice target. The officers found out about #1 (although most already knew).
3) Flashbangs will fuck you up for a few seconds. Then you find out about #1
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:32:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Schulze:

Originally Posted By JarheadChiro:

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch: Cool experience. How did the flashbang affect you?
What?

TEH FLASH-BANG!

What?!?!
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:35:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hk940:
ED to say Tread lightly gentlemen.
we don't need to give perps ideas about how to kill cops and take down SWAT teams!


depending on ROE you can have a lot more fun with them. it all depends if you want to train them or defeat them.

still one dead and one crippled cop is a shameful ratio!



Sorry, but their tactics are pretty easy to learn. Nothing really super-secret about they way they operate. If someone REALLY wanted to take them out, and (the key here) had time to prepare (as in, lead them into an ambush), they could do so fairly easily. Nothing said here is going to change that. And nothing said here is going to give away any secret-squirrel bullshit, since it doesn't exist in the first place.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:37:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hk940:
ED to say Tread lightly gentlemen.
we don't need to give perps ideas about how to kill cops and take down SWAT teams!


depending on ROE you can have a lot more fun with them. it all depends if you want to train them or defeat them.

still one dead and one crippled cop is a shameful ratio!



Definately watching my step here. But in the outbrief the instructors reminded the teams that they were going into a worst case senario. We were baricaded, expecting a fight, and they couldn't wait us out. I know I couldn't have stayed crouched like I was for very long.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 5:37:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:
Cool experience. How did the flashbang affect you?



It made me jealous that I coundn't play with them.

But they do work, let's just leave it at that.
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:01:59 AM EDT
I had a similar expeiance once. Only the people volunteering to be the perps (4 of us) together failed to mention we served in the Army as a Forward Observer and three Infantrymen. The SWAT team got killed twice. One survivor the second time. Then we were outta ammo and they came in really pissed off... That really wasn't a fun experiance.

-Ben
Link Posted: 9/30/2005 9:20:06 AM EDT
Where was the negotiator?



Just kidding.
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