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Posted: 12/30/2002 11:19:43 AM EST
So my little (23 y.o. next month) brother is thinking about joining the Navy. He's kind of been bouncing around after having been "invited not to return" to Texas A&M a couple years ago. He was at the Galveston campus, which is kind of a marine-based campus - he went on a couple cruises with them, across the Atlantic, stuff like that, so he's got some basic knowledge of navigation, etc. He's smart enough to not believe recruiters, but I'd like to be able to give him some good advice on what to do/request/demand/expect. He's taking the plunge on his birthday in late January. I've never served, so tell me what I should pass on to him. Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 11:27:19 AM EST
I was the same way: Failed out of college the 1st time. I went "Nuke" at 19 years of age. Finished my BS and my MS while active duty, made a ton of friends, had a ball. ...Yes, the work days are long on a sub. But life in "The real world" is a cakewalk now. Also, I was able to get A JOB when I got out, based solely on my military experience. (The research lab I work at still isn't hiring any artillery guys...) IM me if he needs more info.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 11:28:57 AM EST
make sure he has a guarentted school after bootcamp. otherwise he may end up going to the fleet as an undesignated striker (not a good thing). the only thing i would have done differently is to sneak some x-lax in my sock. no one tells you a high percentage of people suffer from consitipation from the stress... that first $hit after a couple of days was big and hard... i had to attend delayed entry meetings where we learned about marching and your 10 basic orders. it was helpful for me.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 11:29:11 AM EST
Don't drop the soap.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 11:31:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/30/2002 5:12:54 PM EST by FireControlman]
HEY: [b]ACTIVE duty Navy E-5 here. 5 years in. I'm out the door on the way to the park with the kids. I will be totally honest in this thread. Before I go first thing is first! Lifers will not give sound advice!(please don't be offended you know who you are) Trust me. There are other active duty Navy guys here. I will muster them if necessary.[/b] Your brothers best interests is what is at stake here. Having said that I will be back.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 11:32:45 AM EST
ponyboy beat me to it. anyway, mugzilla had the right idea with the nuke-yoo-ler thing. that's some great training from what i understand.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 11:43:41 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/30/2002 11:45:27 AM EST by Paul]
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 11:49:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By Paul: Make sure that he gets a "A" school of his choice - he'll want to ensure that his rating is in writing with the normal must pass the school and meet requirements. Nobody ought to come in non-designated and have to "strike" for a rate. And yes, everything must be in writing, this is most important.
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Okay, I don't get the "school" thing. I'm sure he would, but is this like after bootcamp training for your MOS? He should get it in writing as to what school he wants? The recruiter he talked to said he'd be great for nu-cu-lar training (which, if you knew my brother, would scare the shiite out of you).
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 12:09:51 PM EST
Stay out of the barrel!
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 12:11:03 PM EST
Originally Posted By Ponyboy: Don't drop the soap.
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And don't pick up any bodys soap.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 12:11:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 12:17:28 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 12:38:23 PM EST
A word about security clearances - your "friends" can often be your worst enemies. How they did mine: They obtained a copy of my high school year book. They called somebody and said "Do you know Dolomite?" If they said yes, they'll ask how many times they saw me drunk,high, or out committing felonies, etc. If the answer was "No", they'd say "Well, can you give us the names of people he was friends with?" Anyway - eventually somehow they'll come into contact with the biggest loudmouth asshole in your school - that you were never friends with the guy won't matter - what he says WILL. Get your story straight the first time and don't ever change it - then you'll be fine.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 12:39:41 PM EST
[b]Soap-on-a-rope[/b]. Aviator
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 12:41:56 PM EST
Make [b]absolutely[/b] sure that he gets the Navy college fund [i]in addition[/i] to the GI Bill. I got hosed out of this by my recruiter and it cost me about half the tuition money I could have gotten. Tell him not to buy into that "undesignated striker" BS, or he'll be chipping and painting for his first two years in the fleet. Get an 'A' school right out of boot.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 12:58:47 PM EST
Tell him to do it. I joined in 1968 instead of being drafted. I wanted to be an MU musician but was not allowed to be one. They offered me CT communications techincian which turned out to be great. I used the GI bill to finsish college BA and MA when I got out. I finished my 20 in the army as a musician and have no regrets. I also taught 10 years in the public schools. The Navy was much better. I turned down instant E6 and a 10K vrb to re up. Looking back on it I should have shipped over. John
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 1:12:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/30/2002 1:13:47 PM EST by aztrooper]
Tell him to memorize the general orders before he gets to basic. And learn to march before he gets there. Easier on the biceps.* AZTrooper (Formerly HM2 8404) Semper Fidelis Marines!! *(All the pushups and 8-count body builders he will do when he screws up.)
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 1:21:35 PM EST
Like I said, nuke is good. If he passes the NFQT test (80 math questions that are basic algebra), they'll blow him to get him to be a nuke. Whether you are a "lifer" or a "6 and out", it was a good experience. A bitching sailor is a happy sailor. I did the 6 month deployments, big inspections, big overhauls, drydockings, etc. I ALSO did 2 degrees. The world needs lifers too. Yes, following most of their advice leans towards a life of service to your country. Genuine advice (Which can come from lifers AND veterans alike) leads to success stories like me: A college dropout, saw 10 foreign countries, 2 degrees, nuke power school, and a hell of a spokesperson for serving ones country in WHATEVER branch, in WHATEVER service. It is all what you make of it. I miss my snakeranch overlooking the harbor, hanging out there with friends, barbequing, brewing beer, reloading in the garage, rebuilding cars, picking on each other to the extent that would put a non-sailor into therapy... What was my point? $hit, i forget now...
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 1:44:08 PM EST
Tell him not to take any iron tablets if he goes to sea. He'll get plenty of iron from all the rust in his food. [:D]
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 2:09:52 PM EST
Make sure he gets "credit" for his college. Depending on the number of credit hours he can be advanced to E-2 or E-3 right out of boot camp. It's not much but every little bit counts.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 2:28:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/30/2002 2:42:13 PM EST by bvmjethead]
My roomate who is currently in the Navy, and is a nuke, had one word to say when I told him the title of this thread. DON'T
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 4:33:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By bvmjethead: My roomate who is currently in the Navy, and is a nuke, had one word to say when I told him the title of this thread. DON'T
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Funny, I thought [i]you[/i] were in the Navy.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 4:40:45 PM EST
Last time I had my clearance checked I forgot to tell one of my friends that I used him as a reference. When the NIS agent called Ron and asked "does he smoke Maryjane" Ron replied "Oh yea, he is one of the biggest dopers around. He almost always has tne best stash in town" and then hung up. When I went in for my followup interview the NIS agent look ad me funny and asked if I wanted to change any of my references. I asked why, and he told me that he got an interesting reply from one of my references. I did a quick runthrough and figured it was Ron, so I asked him and he said yes. Then he told me to forget it as it didn't matter. I got my clearence a couple week later.
Originally Posted By Dolomite: A word about security clearances - your "friends" can often be your worst enemies.
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Link Posted: 12/30/2002 5:01:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/30/2002 5:09:06 PM EST by LWilde]
Tell him to visit the recruiter and get the books on the different ratings (MOSs). Learn about what each does, where they do it, what bonuses are available due to shortages and skills, what the advancement opportunities are, what schools are available. The ONLY way for him to be sure of getting the job he wants is to spend some time doing this research, work with the recruiters and don't accept anything less that what he really wants. Having said that, he should be flexible and have a couple of options...just in case his first choice is not available. Paul and the others have given great advice...but your brother must spend some time figuring out what he wants to do...then talk to the recruiters and compare his list to what they currently have as the needs of the service. Some ratings might be closed. He needs to take the battery of tests at the recruiters' office and compare the results to the open ratings and what he wants to do. The nuclear power ratings are always in demand but your brother just might not be in the right frame of mind to withstand another 18-24 months of school before he ever reports to his first ship. Nuclear power training is the most difficult training syllabus in the Navy...for good reasons. Nuke engineers serve on subs and carriers. Maybe he doesn't want to work in the engineering plant. Maybe he wants to shoot missiles, hunt subs, weld, fix guns, run the electric plant, repair radars, or be an admin weenie. My point is, there are literally dozens of different ratings aboard a ship in an aircraft squadron or in a sub and each is as important in its own way as the others. Does he have any language skills? Maybe he would like being a spook? Possibly your brother wants to fly. As an enlisted man, he won't qualify for naval aviator (pilot) training, but he might qualify to be a member of the crew. Helos, S-3 Vikings, P-3 Orions all have enlisted personnel in the crew. He will have to meet certain physical standards to fly. The aircrew ratings are fairly limited because of the specific nature of the jobs the crew does...like hunt subs, so to be an aircrewman he must successfully complete not only the rating school syllabus but finish crew flight training as well. If your brother doesn't suffer from claustrophobia and is of a temper to get along well with a small bunch of people in a closed space for long periods, then the submarine service might be to his liking. They are really good at what they do and the re-enlistment bonuses can be very substantial. There are some new ships coming...and they are going to be the most incredible whiz-bang techno-freak vessels you ever saw. If your brother joins now and gets into one of the many surface-oriented ratings, and if he stays in, he might be ordered to one of the newest ships. That is not to say the ships now in service are dogs...they are by no means...but the newest ones are going to be more like the starship Enterprise than anything ever afloat. Imagine...gas turbine/electric drive, holographic color man-machine interface display systems, stealth technology, 6" guns, silent running, futuristic missile and "other" weapons, no rotating antennae, multimode sensors. The design, manufacturing and testing process has already begun. Here is a pic: [img]http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/pubimage.asp?id_=1276878[/img] Recruit training shouldn't be that difficult, either physically or mentally if he is prepared. Usually, after boot camp, he will get a couple of weeks leave and then report to his first school to learn his apprentice trade. Following this school, he will usually report to his first ship. Finally...if he is in incredible physical condition with the stamina of a Kenyan marathoner and the mental fortitude of a POW in the Hanio Hilton, if he is totally at home in very cold surf...without a wet suit, likes playing with kewl guns, wants to jump out of perfectly good planes from high and low altitudes, and wants to learn how to kill people quickly with his bare hands...then the SEALs might be for him. I have a friend whose son is a SEAL platoon commander. He just returned to The World from Indian Country and loves his job. Oh...I enlisted in 1964 and made it to Chief Sonar Tech. I was then commissioned as a warrant and finished my career as a Limited Duty Officer. I retired in 1992 after 28 years service. My time in the Navy was both good and bad...but it was well worth it in the end. PS: Have your brother pay especially close attention to the advice posted about dope usage. That is the quickest ticket I know out of the Navy...and their testing is usually fool proof...not always...but usually.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 5:18:33 PM EST
Navy Advice.... NEVER LEAVE HIS BUDDY's BEHIND! HA HA!
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 5:20:47 PM EST
He's smart enough to not believe recruiters, but I'd like to be able to give him some good advice on what to do/request/demand/expect. He's taking the plunge on his birthday in late January. I've never served, so tell me what I should pass on to him. Thanks.
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OK then tell him a Navy guy here on AR15.com said to get his act together and go back to school and hold down a part-time job. If he is smart, and not running from something then WTF? Tell him to take a long hard look at what he is doing and where his life is taking him. He's not 18 and snared by a recruiter, correct? Going to school full-time and working a part-time job is by far a better choice. Most sailors will tell you their plans are to get out and go to college. So why waste four years in the Navy? [b]I feel so strongly about this[/b]. I'm having a hard time mustering up what I want to say here.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 5:23:46 PM EST
SEAL CHALLENGE
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 5:40:06 PM EST
OK then tell him a Navy guy here on AR15.com said to get his act together and go back to school and hold down a part-time job. If he is smart, and not running from something then WTF? Tell him to take a long hard look at what he is doing and where his life is taking him. He's not 18 and snared by a recruiter, correct? Going to school full-time and working a part-time job is by far a better choice. Most sailors will tell you their plans are to get out and go to college. So why waste four years in the Navy? I feel so strongly about this. I'm having a hard time mustering up what I want to say here.
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My stepbrother was Navy for 5 years. He got out and never went to college. His experience there was not enough to substitute for a college degree. The only job he's been able to get is in retail (and this was before the recession). Either way, your brother would have to finish college to have a decent living and that will be much harder 4 years down the road when he's 27. By most standards 23 is already a little late. I'm not even sure his current college credit would still be good 4 years ahead. He might have to retake some classes after so many years. I've often seen recruiters at college campuses. I thought the military was all about disipline and finishing what you start; but if so, why would they be so quick to accept college dropouts?
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 7:20:32 PM EST
Learn to swim? AB
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 8:05:11 PM EST
NUKE PROGRAM? What? Did you not see he had school problems and yet you are recommending two years of the hardest schooling the Navy can offer. Shoot guys.
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 8:30:58 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/30/2002 8:31:48 PM EST by wsmc667]
oh man. i was an ET2. that's an E-5 who's trained as an electronics technician. i enlisted as an E-3 due to the high skewl rotc. i did fine in boot camp and was guaranteed ET from the get go [due to the enlistment papers from the recruiter]. ET is a great rate. part electrician, part computer geek, and enough electrical theory to get started with an electrical engineering degree later on in life. WHEN he gets to A school, he needs to do his absolute best in everything. inspections and more importantly, grades. you get your choice of follow on assignment based on class rank. Rules to do well in the NAV: - always be on time (15 minutes early) - always look perfect. have inspection ready clothes at all times. always wear military creases. - shut up and learn "the game" before trying to fit in. and obviously, do everything 100%. it's a little easier to do this in tha navy than in real life. but ... few people in the navy get a degree. if he lacks motivation, hopefully, the navy can help him... good luck, chris
Link Posted: 12/30/2002 9:13:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By wsmc667: was guaranteed ET from the get go due to the enlistment papers from the recruiter
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You mean at MEPS you agreed to and signed a contract with the classifier. FC2(SW)Dan
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 6:27:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By wsmc667: was guaranteed ET from the get go due to the enlistment papers from the recruiter
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Originally Posted By FireControlman: You mean at MEPS you agreed to and signed a contract with the classifier. FC2(SW)Dan
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yeah, pretty much. recruiter said it could/would happen. went to meps and it did. BTW, FC is another good rate. basically an ET, but for fire control systems. only down side is i think it's easier to get shore assignments as an ET. =) :) chris
Link Posted: 12/31/2002 8:25:27 PM EST
First off I was in for 6 years, typical for going ET Electronics Technician. So... (Most of you knew this was sooner or later.) N...EVER A...GAIN V...OLUNTEER Y...OURSELF GET a guaranteed "A" school or don't do it. Mine came with a "C" school as well. Do as the others have stated. Learn to play the game fast, it a game of favorites and of A$$ kissers. Don't go NUC (nuclear trained personnel). They are always the first on the boat and the last ones off. No JOKING! It is good for college credit though, but so is non-NUC programs such as ET's, FT's, ST's, most schools that require a six year sign up. But if he is tired of schooling then don't join, because that is what you spend doing the first year or two based on your RATE.(ET's, FT's, ST's.) Like someone said earlier "shit roles down hill" so go in know that and make sure that he gets plenty of DEP time Delayed Enter Program, the more the better at least eight months worth. ...Or get his degree and go in as a ZERO (an officer) less shit to roll down hill, and treated more like a person the a cannon fodder(SP?). I may have said a lot of negative things here but I am where I am because of the training I received from the NAVY. I did not enjoy my sea command, but I did get to go to England, France, Belgium, Norway, Portugal, Puerto Rico, St. Croix, Florida, Virginia, Connecticut, and Illinois. While stationed in Connecticut I when to Boston, NYC, and all around. While in Virginia I went to DC, Myrtle Beach, N and S Carolina, Maryland and all around again, there is so much to do on the east coast. Keep you options and mind open....
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 5:37:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/1/2003 5:42:41 AM EST by TexasAg]
This thread does bring back memories... I took NJROTC in high school and was planning on enlisting. Would have entered as E-3 with guaranteed A school. Had a bud do it and his basic was much easier (no KP, etc.) But I had chance to go to A&M Galveston / maritime school...as the recruiting CPO told me..."son, would love to have ya in as an E-3, but if ya get the chance for education and shot at O-1...ya need to go to school." So I did time at TMA and entered the maritime field. Tell your brother to make sure he gets credit for his time at TMA...if he made two training cruises, he was a sophmore (pisshead)? Was he transportation, engineering or marine science? He can use this for E-3 upon enlisting. His Tx Clipper sea time, navigation, seamanship classes, etc will count. He also can get a guaranteed A school. Remember, if he flunks out of A school...he will then be a swab jockey, sent to the fleet, and have to strike for a rate. Don't blow the A school...100% study, squared away. Or, if he wants to work in the maritime field..there are plenty of companies hiring in Texas and south Louisiana. There are jobs in the Gulf, working the oil patch...supply boats, rigs, support, etc. He could use his TMA time and work on his limited Mate's ticket on supply boat, etc. Good $$$, lots of overtime, etc.
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 8:42:41 AM EST
Buy him soap on a rope!
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 1:36:09 PM EST
Originally Posted By OKLAHOMA_LAWMAN: Buy him soap on a rope!
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thanks for the advice..I'm sure that helps
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 1:51:23 PM EST
Remember, if he flunks out of A school...he will then be a swab jockey, sent to the fleet, and have to strike for a rate. Don't blow the A school...100% study, squared away.
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Hah, he'll be lucky to flunk....then he wont be suckered into doing 6 years in a rate that has piss poor advancement, like I was. If you want to serve your country go to a branch were you will feel like you are making a damn difference. Trust me....I'm in the navy, and I there isn't a day that goes by that I dont wish I had gone into the army or marines, or hell the coast guard. E-3 is nice to start with, but no matter what rate you are in the Navy if you are not wearing khacki you are scum and are going to be a swab jockey anyway. The new "Clinton" navy is crap....the most important part of your day is what they would call "happy hour", or "cleaning stations"...this is one hour of cleaning....If as much emphasis was put into doing your job (like maintaining the ships main defence system) as is put into making your ship look pretty the Navy might not be as bad....but I have been told to quit trying to fix my system, and get to cleaning(and not just once-like a hundred times). I know every Lifer in here is going to bash me now, so know this...I'm an EP sailor(for those who dont know what this is, its the highest performance evaluation you can get). I'm not some dirtbag, that doesn't iron his uniform or shave. I'm not bragging, I just think its important to know I'm not some punk kid that hates being told what to do. The navy just isn't military to me...its a bunch of panty-wastes that where picked on as a kid going to college and becoming officers just to powertrip. [/end rant] ss
Link Posted: 1/1/2003 1:55:21 PM EST
lol
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