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Posted: 5/23/2005 5:53:45 AM EDT
[#1]
In this case, big brother was probably doing you a favor.
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Posted: 5/23/2005 5:53:53 AM EDT
[#2]
Pipe down and obey your masters.
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Posted: 5/23/2005 5:55:02 AM EDT
[#3]
You did cancel it, right?
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Posted: 5/23/2005 5:55:36 AM EDT
[#4]
Very strange, I work at a bank and we can't tell anyone what to do with their money, we have a limit set on how much you can get out using their card, but that can be changed at the customers request, but as long as you have the cash we don't care how you spend it.
Check you card guidelines that they sent you or should have sent you and see if it is written in their cardholders agreement. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 5:56:49 AM EDT
[#5]
+1 |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 5:57:27 AM EDT
[#6]
Their policy may have been to stop these scam sites from getting your bank info and then draining your accounts, which is known to happen. Hey! Give us your credit card and you can play poker for real money! Sure! Why not! Meanwhile they are cleaning your account out and probably cheating like you-know-what to scam you out of every last dime. At least in Vegas there are SOME rules about how the house has to play. Most likely that is the cause for their policy, as they don't want to get stuck holding the bill when you get ripped off and try to invoke the fraud protection clause in most cardholder agreements these days. But if you are determined to get ripped off, there are lots of other ways to get your banking info in the hands of con artists worldwide who would be happy to ruin your life, and odds are your bank wouldn't be able to stop those other ways so easily. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 5:58:03 AM EDT
[#7]
I'd tell them that it goes against my policy to deal with a bank that tries to tell me how I can and can't spend my money.
It probably started as an anti-fraud measure. People were probably trying to use stolen cards at online casinos. But once you confirmed it really was you and not fraud, that should have been the end of it. By the way, don't mean to stick my nose in, but I'd steer clear of online gambling. JMO. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:02:10 AM EDT
[#8]
Care to guess how many people have sued their banks and credit card companies after losing thousands and tens of thousands on gambling, AND WON? The banks are covering their asses because juries don't have the balls to tell gambling addicts "NO!"
I don't blame them. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:06:31 AM EDT
[#9]
Good point. I knew people were suing but I didn't know they were winning. 
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:09:52 AM EDT
[#10]
First off, this isn't about morality. Second, PartyPoker is the largest poker site on the the web with thousands of people playing against EACH OTHER, in games like Texas Hold'em and Seven Card Stud. This isn't a casino. Third, my bank has no right to tell me where to spend my money, period.
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:12:05 AM EDT
[#11]
No, it is about sanity.
Sure it is. Drink more Kool-Aid.
When they are getting sued for losses and their account holders are being scammed out of millions that the bank then has to eat or use FDIC on, then yes they DO have a right to tell you that you can't spend your money there. And you agreed to that by signing a contract with them. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:17:24 AM EDT
[#12]
I think a lot of those online gambling outfits are off-shore and banks don't have to do business with them, even with your money. Like someone else said, they probably did you a favor in more ways than one.
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:19:32 AM EDT
[#13]
 I simply MUST get a web site. I thought all the naive "internet is my best friend and he would never lie" crowd was gone. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:21:28 AM EDT
[#14]
This is not about people being scammed, where the hell did you all get that from? I've made a deposit before using my checkcard and it went through with no problems and nobody cleaned my checking account out. Now I tried it again, several months later I might add for everybody that thinks I'm a gambleaholic and it was declined. This isn't about fraud because they use secure servers for banking transactions just like the website that'll sell you a stock for your AR. This is about big brother.
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:23:06 AM EDT
[#15]
DING DING DING DING!! Guess how much regulatory control there is for these gambling sites? None! If you are going to gamble, for heaven's sake at least be sane enough to go to Vegas or Atlantic City to do it. Don't send your account info to some unknown entity out there on the internet. Giving out your information to a site like that is like taking all the doors off of your house. Free shot. It is utterly stupid. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:23:22 AM EDT
[#16]
This is what people get when they sign up for things, never read what they sign, and then bitch when it's pointed out to them later.
This is why 75% of Americans shouldn't even have credit cards, in my opinion. When you default, or sue the company because you were a dumbass, the rest of us pay the price in higher fees, rates, and consumer prices. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:27:51 AM EDT
[#17]
Some of us, like ME for instance, work in data security. And we can smell a scam a mile away. Even if the host site is actually legit, how secure are their data servers? Are there any exploits for the code on their website that would allow other players to get their hands on user data and thusly to access your account? There are about a billion and two things that are ugly about those sites.
Not everyone who paints a bullseye on their chest gets shot right away. Still, I wouldn't advise it.
Whatever you say. It's not like any of us are IT security specialists or anything, and it's not like we have seen about a billion phishing scams masqueraded as gaming websites. You go right ahead and find a bank that won't hassle you about where you send your data. Aggie is right. I really need to set up my own website that can con suckers out of millions and put it in a bank account in the Caymans. Why be honest when there are so many marks out there? |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:29:09 AM EDT
[#18]
It was a CHECKCARD! My money! Did you know that you go through a third party to make a deposit there? Has no one ever been to PartyPoker here? Do you even know what PartyPoker is? One guy who one the WSOP a few years back won his buy-in through PartyPoker, that's $10,000 folks, the buy-in alone. They are a legit business with thousands of people who play there. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:36:20 AM EDT
[#19]
And it most likely has a fraud protection clause that goes with that card, and part of that fraud protection is to pre-emptively block any transactions to known fishy places like online gambling sites because the information security people at the banks know how many people get ripped off from stuff like that, and rather than the bank having to eat everything that is lost due to fraud, they are proactive in trying to prevent it. Thus your hostility toward the bank here is unreasonable and against a document you signed to get your check card.
Who is that third party? What is their security rating? What industry standards do they observe? Most legit web transactions are done through specified and CERTIFIED methods that the banking industry has set up to allow for commerce. If the transactions don't meet those requirements, then there is darn good reason for the banks to be suspicious.
I haven't.
Sure I do. Sounds like a dandy way to bilk people out of money and to get all sorts of neat information that allows me to use their bank accounts like my own personal ATM. And if I am outside the US and funnel the money outside the US, then the odds of me ever being held accountable are pretty slim.
"Legit" buisness. Sure. Whatever you say. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:38:19 AM EDT
[#20]
Do you wear shades while you play so they can't see your eyes bug out? That's my problem- when I get a pair of deuces I look like Marty Feldman.
 Anyway, go online and use the $ to buy ammo. If they block you, THEN raise hell! |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:38:25 AM EDT
[#21]
Find a new bank that will let you do what you want.
I wouldn't complain about the bank, they've just chosen to do business one way probably for some very good reasons. You might actually ask them why. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:43:24 AM EDT
[#22]
???? You could say that about any site that takes credit cards. Geez. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:47:39 AM EDT
[#23]
Holy crap. Just use a third party.
Transfer money from bank to third party. Transfer money from third party to poker site. I used Citadel to transfer money to UltimateBet (free) and I used Neteller to transer money to Party Poker. Neteller has a fee to deposit from your bank ($8 on 100 i think?), but most sites dont let you transfer out to citadel - they do to neteller and its free to withdraw. And as far as scams, the sites themselves are fine IMO. The only thing you need to watch out for are people who collude on tables. -Nuke |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:48:13 AM EDT
[#24]
No, you can't. There are numerous security standards out there that are designed to ensure the highest possible security for transactions over the web, Verisign being one of them. Sites with that base line of security are not likely to rip you off, because there is a certification process that has to be adhered to. Done properly, online transactions CAN be secure. But you won't find many gaming sites that do things properly because the entire point of them is to rob people. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:50:30 AM EDT
[#25]
If people were getting scammed left and right, would PartyPoker still be around???????? I highly doubt it. And I shouldn't really be surprised about the responses though, should I? How can you argue with the far right?
Edited: I'm done. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:51:57 AM EDT
[#26]
jimtash9 I have a very unique investment opportunity for you through my friend- a prince- in Nigeria... He's in a bit of a pickle financially and could use your help.
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:54:50 AM EDT
[#27]
You got a link for this or is it just BS? |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:55:37 AM EDT
[#28]
All the pricks posting about how he shouldn't bitch, will be first in line to bitch when their bank eventually outlaws buying "dangerous gun and militia stuff" online as their "contribution to public safety". If you don't think that is coming, you are a fucking moron.
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:56:05 AM EDT
[#29]
Online gambling has to be one of the worst dimensions of the Internet. It's like delivering electronic crack into your home. It ain't no church bingo game or playing cards with your buddies. SEEK HELP.
(ETA: agreed that it is not the banks' role to decide how you spend your money, I wouldn't object to them calling for confirmation that it really is you and not someone who has gotten ahold of your account info) |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:56:51 AM EDT
[#30]
Industry estimates put identity theft at 7 million victims in 2003. And the nigerian scam is still going. The herd isn't always right.
So now it becomes politics? You complain because your bank took action in the interest of PROTECTING your account from the billions of scams that are out there, and then you whine because some people who are sane and who MAKE A LIVING ASSESSING ONLINE THREATS AND DEALING WITH SCAMS AND ONLINE FRAUD DAILY tell you that messing around in those gambling sites is not wise? Look buddy, if you want to get ripped off by scam websites that have NO REGULATORY OVERSIGHT WHATSOEVER and are willing to be vulnerable to whatever cheats and scams hackers can use through these sites, be my guest. Have at it. But when you get taken for a huge pile of money nobody had better hear you complain in the least because you are REALLY asking for it. It isn't a left or right thing. It is a stupid versus smart thing, and you are on the loosing side. Have a nice day. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 6:59:40 AM EDT
[#31]
So quit your fu**ing whining and transfer your money to another bank. Read the goddamn documents you sign this time. Ask them up front if they'll let you use your card (many of which you can use over and above your account balance) on hookers, gambling and 1-900 numbers. Jesus, be man. Why do you have to post on the internet to get people to tell you how right you are? If it pisses you off that much then do something about it. YOU are the one who asked "WTF??????". People tell you WTF and you whine like a little bitch. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 7:00:41 AM EDT
[#32]
Actually its probably not all that sinister but illegal in your state and the bank legaly liable.
Tj (From the bible belt state on the otherside of the mountians) |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 7:01:39 AM EDT
[#33]
Here's a quarter:  Buy a clue. Banks reject transactions to gaming sites BECAUSE OF THE GIGANTIC RISK THEY POSE TO THE ACCOUNT HOLDERS IN THEIR BANK. And also because stolen cards and the like get used on gaming sites. Use on a gaming site is a big red flag in the industry. All of you who think these things are perfectly safe ought to do some research. Find out what kind of regulatory bodies control these online gaming casinos and the like. See what gaming commissions exist to keep them from being scams and from being hammered by scammers. Even if the site itself is legit odds are there are dozens of holes in their code that would allow someone with brains and time to figure out a way to cheat and win thousands from lots of different people, and most likely to get away with it. It will be a long, fruitless search. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 7:01:51 AM EDT
[#34]
Who rammed a cock up your ass without lube? People post shit like that ALL THE TIME on this forum. What's different about his post. Sheesh. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 7:03:27 AM EDT
[#35]
Do you honestly believe that a bank, or any commercial enterprise, has no right to limit who they deal with, even on their clients' behalf? If you don't agree with it then YOU take YOUR business elsewhere. You're probably right, many here would bitch if the situation was a bit different. But they would also step up and do something about it instead of whining and expecting a private business to change their policy. You guys think the world revolves around you and the you are every company's number 1 concern. You might want to put on your sunglasses and sunscreen, step out of the basement and breathe in a little real world air for a while. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 7:04:11 AM EDT
[#36]
What is different is that people have done him a favor by warning him of impending doom, and yet he is being silly about the whole thing. If I wanted to buy gun stuff from a site that had been reported as a scam site that I didn't know about that existed only to grab credit card info so some cock sucker in Russia could clean out my accounts and my bank KNEW this site was on a watchlist for fraud, you are darn tooting I would be pissed if they allowed the transaction. That is exactly what is happening here. It isn't a moral judgement. The bank is acting in the interest of their customer as the customer REQUESTED when they signed the cardholder agreement. If the person doesn't like this, they can go find a dumber bank who won't give a good gosh darn what happens to their money and who will thusly refuse to protect them from fraud. Then the guy's entire financial life can be ruined because he couldn't take a little advice and just had to play poker online where a bunch of predators live. If you decide to go for a stroll in the minefield, don't get upset when you loose a leg. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 7:23:25 AM EDT
[#37]
Did I say that a bank had nor right to limit the transaction? NO, I didn't. But rather than address the fycking question, people are attacking the red-herring specifics of the question rather than the somewhat blanket question. As usual, fuckwit knowitalls decide to also jump in with their self-righteous bullshit about how gambling is bad so it's ok for the bank to do. I don't gamble at all, but I do know that there are a few reputable sites out there. I think a bank should only limit the transaction if there is past history of abuse. You can bet your ass that this kind of stuff WILL happen in the future with gun stuff. Remember that whether or not guns/online gambling/dildos are "bad" is a subjective thing. Some bank out there will eventually perceive guns as "bad" and act accordingly. The precedent is what sucks, and I could give a rat's ass about gambling or whatever. It's the precedent. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 7:23:45 AM EDT
[#38]
You're absolutely right, it happens all the time. I guess this one was just one too many. People ask for opinions or information and then get bent out of shape that it isn't the RIGHT information or opinion. I should just let it go but it's so damned retarded that it made me mad this time. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 7:24:04 AM EDT
[#39]
See my reply to the other post, above. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 7:26:46 AM EDT
[#40]
yeah, no shit. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 7:27:49 AM EDT
[#41]
Listen, I don't care if someone points out a different aspect, but the latest fad seems to be to try and find some way, ANY fucking way whatsoever, to find a flaw in something the original poster did. Most of the time the counterpoint is either a blatant strawman argument, or some bullshit red herring nitpick. Reminds me of the .308 AR10 indoor shooting post, where a bunch of self-righteous asswipes hopped on the bandwagon to rail against everything the original poster stood for. I didn't bother to stick around for the inevitable religous transformation to the thread. Someone could post about saving a bunch of kids from an overturned, burning schoolbus, and he would eventually be attacked for something, as well as lectured as to how some small detail of his actions was immoral and made the baby Jesus cry. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 7:29:49 AM EDT
[#42]
So what if you two were the first in the "history"? Would you (honestly) just blow it off and not be pissed off? Hell no, you'd be working every angle to get your money back. Trust me, if the bank didn't think there was sufficient risk they wouldn't care who they deal with. If they can turn a buck they will. The risk, whether specific to this company or not, is what's driving this. Surely you know that internet based comapnies change hands all the time. You never know who the hell you're dealing with, and it may not be the same guys you dealt with yesterday. Morality has nothing to do with it. If the bank has a policy that says they can and will limit who they'll deal with, and you still sign up for an account, then you have to live with that policy or take your business elsewhere. What is so hard to understand about that? Being mad that you didn't do your homework when signing up for an account is ridiculous. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 7:32:37 AM EDT
[#43]
So by your rationale, maybe ALL internet transactions should be verboten, since they are particularly susceptible to fraud. Maybe we can use the cameras at ATM machines to decline money to people who are too well dressed for a given neighborhood, to save them from a possible mugging. As I posted above, do you see the PRECEDENT here? I didn't think so. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 7:33:20 AM EDT
[#44]
How's about you get his information, call his bank and ask them WTF???? I bet they give you the same or similar answer. Then it is policy, not red herring bullshit. If he wants to give me his account numbers and so forth, I'll do it. We'll just bet on the outcome and he should be forthcoming with the info. (That's a joke, by the way.) ETA: You're right, some people can always find a way to piss on a thread. In this case, though, the guy asked why his bank has this policy. People (right or wrong) responded with opinions and he got pissed because it wasn't what he wanted to hear. All he wanted to hear was "Hell yeah, dude, they suck. You ought to drive down there and kick some ass. They're fucking communists." Nothing else would have mattered so he should have just asked for that response in his original post. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 7:35:43 AM EDT
[#45]
It's because of lawyers, naturally.
Years ago some woman charged thousand and thousands of dollars on her credit cards gambling online. After she lost it all, she sued her bank, claiming that they should have never let her gamble online using their credit cards because it's illegal. That one of the biggest reasons most card companies don't allow you to charge anything on your credit or debit card related to gambling. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 7:37:47 AM EDT
[#46]
I understand why some of you are, ummmmmmmm, skeptical about online poker, but it really isn't the scam that youseem to think it is.
Playing at one of bigger, established, online poker rooms, such as Party Poker, Paradise Poker (where I play), Poker Stars, Poker Room etc. is NO different from playing at a casino. The deal is randomized using very strong algorithms, and the encrytion is also very strong. Just like a casino, the online poker rooms make money off of poker games by "raking" the pot in cash games, meaning that they take a percentage of each cash pot, or by taking a fee of each tournament entry. They make money hand-over-fist in this fashion, and they have no need to be scamming their customers. The online poker rooms are located off-shore to avoid US interstate gambling laws. The banks and credit card companies are protecting their own interests by not allowing direct transactions with these offshore companies, because it would be next to impossible for them to recover funds in case their customer was actually scammed, it is not a reflection on any individual poker room. The only way around this is to use a third party payment otption. Paradise Poker accepts two of these called NetTeller and FirePay. You can add money to an account established with these companies from your checking account or credit card, and then use that to fill your online poker account. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 7:38:03 AM EDT
[#47]
And it should be pointed out that under most state banking laws, if the customer gets defrauded, the bank is often automatically liable for replacing the stolen funds. So, it is a tradeoff. You get to use and convenience of the banks debit card, and the bank gets to set reasonable limits on its use for the bank's own protection. If the bank is unreasonable in either direction, then it will either lose customers or go out of business.
By the way, did you catch the magical word, "reasonable." There is no bright line between gambling and guns. It is based on society's views. If you do not want guns to be next, then you must remain ever vigil to gun rights. That is the only answer, constant knowledge and oversight. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 7:38:45 AM EDT
[#48]
If you don't like the rules your bank puts on your bankcard, find another bank.
Pretty simple. |
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Posted: 5/23/2005 7:39:35 AM EDT
[#49]
The "red herring bullshit" was referring to the tripe posted in response to many questions on Arfcom as of late, not the bank's policy. And I'd bet a shiny nickel that most people are too lazy to tell the bank to piss up a rope and change banks. My advice, had I never launched into a diatribe, would have been to call the bank, and if they wouldn't approve him using that website, to cancel his account (like THAT would happen). Example - ever see ANYONE take advice about women on here?  Someone could tell a poster that he was screwing the poster's wife and the poster would still get screwed over. Ces't la vie, I suppose.
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Posted: 5/23/2005 7:39:50 AM EDT
[#50]
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