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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 4/2/2006 7:54:49 PM EDT
I haven't cleaned it in a long time and I ordered some Wolf ammo (my first time putting Wolf through it).

It finally failed, and I gave it a good cleaning. I was surprised to find that the bore was very (by comparison) clean. Chrome lining is even more effective than I though. I'm a big proponent of not over-cleaning your guns. It was dirty to the point I wouldn't rely on it but I'd still take it shooting. My next experiment is to clean with 10W-40 (because that's what I have handy - my bike specifies it) and lube with ATF. I did that and didn't have any problems in the ~150 rounds of Wolf I fired today.

I have to say I was disappointed, but I'd say it's been 1000+ rounds so that is still 99.9%+ reliability. My Glock is still at 100%, but with only about 800-1000 rounds of WWB.

The exact failure was a FTE(xtract). The case just plain got stuck in the chamber. Real stuck. Extactor ripped the rim off stuck. I cleaned it but I don't have a chamber brush so I didn't really address the particular issue.

My AR has failed before, but that was using Santa-Barbara SS109, which has a reputation for sticking in chambers (due to soft brass). I also ripped the rim off of that case.

I don't know if it was Wolf or the gun. I cleaned it and it worked with more Wolf so I'm going to say that this is my first failure that was the gun's fault (or mine, for not cleaning it). I also need to buy a chamber brush and use it every 500 rounds or so.

Here's a picture of my locking lugs:

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 7:56:17 PM EDT
If anyone really wants a pic of the case that stuck, I still have it and can add one. I had to whip out a rod and give it a substantial tap to get it out. I really think that the articles I've read that criticize the 5.56mm's relatively small cartridge taper are onto something, though regular cleaning would prevent that.

I can't imagine if I didn't have a chrome lined chamber.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 7:57:02 PM EDT
I can still see a little carbon in there.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 7:57:35 PM EDT
Yep, the you're to blame because a dirty chamber causes sticky extraction. I don't like to clean anymore than I have to, but is way too dirty,
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 7:58:01 PM EDT
Such abuse.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 7:58:35 PM EDT
what did that poor gun do to you?

you could eat off my chamber (if it wasnt coated in noxious lube...)
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 7:59:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By roboman:
Such abuse.




+1


That makes my eyes hurt.

I am not anal about cleaning but I never let it get that bad.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:01:01 PM EDT
what Lube do use, and went you do clean it what do you use.

My rifle after 1000 rounds didn't look that bad.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:02:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:03:30 PM EDT
Tell me that wasn't a gift from someone.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:05:13 PM EDT
No! You failed your AR.


Glad to see you're still kickin' SW.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:06:08 PM EDT
hehe....

I have guns that are that dirty.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:07:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CAR-10:
Tell me that wasn't a gift from someone.



It was. But I don't think you could hardly call this abuse.

This is not like starving your child - more like making him wait until dinner.

Anyways, this isn't what I typically do. I wanted to see what the time to failure would be, and I accomplished that - somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200 rounds.

I normally clean after each time I go shooting unless I shoot less than a mag or so. I decided that this was overcleaning, and that I should reevaluate my regimen. I figured I should know how long it takes to fail, and clean at an interval of less than that but more than just 30 rounds.

A valuable lesson, I think.

I have used CLP in the past. I think I will continue to use CLP until I run out and then switch over completely to automotive products. I might still buy some Mpro7 once in a while, because though it is expensive it's the one I think that's worth my money.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:08:45 PM EDT
Damn, and i thought my chamber looked dirty.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:12:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
Damn, and i thought my chamber looked dirty.



It was really the Wolf that put it over the top on the filth. ALL the red you see is Wolf sealant, as is much of the powder residue.

I used to shoot UMC almost exclusively (Wal-Mart, $3.97), it was much cleaner.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:13:12 PM EDT
What type of chamber do you have? 5.56 Nato or 223 Wylde etc?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:17:20 PM EDT
WTF is overcleaning?

I am a fan of cleaning the same day you return from the range. Every time.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:18:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CAAAwarfighter:
What type of chamber do you have? 5.56 Nato or 223 Wylde etc?



5.56 NATO
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:18:40 PM EDT
Try 2500+ (not quite 3k) rounds of Wolf 55gr. W/o even a shot of CLP. It never malfunctioned, but I decided it was time to clean.


My AR fucking RULES! It was still shooting tight groups at 50yrds.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:21:05 PM EDT
[thread hijack]

Good experiment. I have run the same experiement myself on all my guns multiple times just to see how much they can take till they become unreliable. My [DPMS Extreme Bull] AR will only go a few hundred rounds. Less than 400. The Bushmaster Carbon 15 is up to 600 on it's first run through without a cleaning failure yet. My 10/22's will go between 300-500 rounds, sometimes more.

here's the fun part The Glock and the Arsenal SLR-95mb (Bulgarian AK variant) are both in about year 3 of the experiement. I lost track with the AK, somewhere around 4K rounds. The glock is closing in on 2K rounds with no jams [or kabooms].

I have never cleaned my 870 but it gets shot a lot less, less than 1K rounds. I clean my '06 and .223 bolt and my 22-250 every time I shoot but they are mostly target rifles.

anyway, good experiement, now clean it and don't let it get dirty. If you don't like cleaning guns, get yourself an AK and shoot it for plinking and save the AR for when it's warm, dry and not too dusty.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:24:27 PM EDT

I'm a big proponent of not over-cleaning your guns.


Jeez really? I never would've figured that from the pics.

Seriously that looks like shit.

I am not at all fastidious about keeping a clean rifle (normal to go 2-3 sessions without cleaning over the course of 4-6 weeks and usually over 1000 rounds fired) but that thing looks like it's been stored in a wet chimnet since Halloween. Even then my rifles NEVER look like that but I only use CLP or a little mobil 1 on mating surfaces.

I think you're using some chemicals which are contributing to the buildup or something. Get rid of the chain-kote or whatever you're using and go back to clp.

At least take the 20 seconds to run a boresnake through it when you're done shooting. Good Lord.

Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:25:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 20iner:
Try 2500+ (not quite 3k) rounds of Wolf 55gr. W/o even a shot of CLP. It never malfunctioned, but I decided it was time to clean.


My AR fucking RULES! It was still shooting tight groups at 50yrds.



That is pretty good. You get a golf clap:



I wish I had that much ammo on hand - it'd be nice to do a test and actually count how many rounds it was.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:59:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sniper_Wolfe:

Originally Posted By 20iner:
Try 2500+ (not quite 3k) rounds of Wolf 55gr. W/o even a shot of CLP. It never malfunctioned, but I decided it was time to clean.


My AR fucking RULES! It was still shooting tight groups at 50yrds.



That is pretty good. You get a golf clap:

www.disclife.com/worlds2000/images/kc_clap.jpg

I wish I had that much ammo on hand - it'd be nice to do a test and actually count how many rounds it was.




Thank you for my well deserved golf clap.

sarcastic bastage
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 9:04:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By otto-nyc:
WTF is overcleaning?

I am a fan of cleaning the same day you return from the range. Every time.



That was my reaction. I don't own very many firearms (I'm in college) - but the handful that I do have are all 1K+ guns (except for 2 of my 3 shotgun). That is A LOT of money for me (read: all) - I clean them the same day I shoot them every time; even the shotguns.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 9:19:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Noname:
Click me...




Link Posted: 4/2/2006 9:23:03 PM EDT
Must be nice to have money to waste like that. Does your bike look like ass, too?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:02:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:05:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thinman:
No! You failed your AR.


Glad to see you're still kickin' SW.



+1

LB
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:23:29 PM EDT
We should start an AR-15 rescue club for abused AR's.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:25:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PeteCO:

Originally Posted By Noname:
Click me...







+1

That's impressive!
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:38:50 PM EDT
keep going....dont clean it yet....
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:44:41 PM EDT
Wasn't there a picture of an Ar floating around here that had several thousand rounds without cleaning? I was thinking it was in the 5000 plus range and almost exclusively Wolf.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 10:46:49 PM EDT
But did it pass the pill bottle test?
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 11:13:57 PM EDT
Cleaning is over-rated.....

My RR 2 year experiment is on something like 3500 rounds without a cleaning. Just a little CLP from time to time. It has yet to fail with me shooting it (there have been 2 failures, 1 fte, 1 ftf, but new shooters were pulling the trigger). The AR platform is a very dependable/reliable weapon system.
Link Posted: 4/3/2006 3:04:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 20iner:

Originally Posted By Sniper_Wolfe:

Originally Posted By 20iner:
Try 2500+ (not quite 3k) rounds of Wolf 55gr. W/o even a shot of CLP. It never malfunctioned, but I decided it was time to clean.


My AR fucking RULES! It was still shooting tight groups at 50yrds.



That is pretty good. You get a golf clap:

www.disclife.com/worlds2000/images/kc_clap.jpg

I wish I had that much ammo on hand - it'd be nice to do a test and actually count how many rounds it was.




Thank you for my well deserved golf clap.

sarcastic bastage



Actually I really wasn't being sarcastic...I thought it was a sweet test.

Looks like this thread is not quite garnering the responses I expected, but I guess that is what I should have expected here. I guess I can't see how it's abuse, as it doesn't hurt the gun at all. Oh well.


Tromatic:
Must be nice to have money to waste like that. Does your bike look like ass, too?



How is that a "waste" if it doesn't hurt the gun?

My bike actually doesn't look particularly bad though it is dusty and could use a cleaning. You be the judge:



SteyrAUG, I still think that knife should have passed that test, glass bottle or not!

FWIW, I still carry it since it's the only knife I own with a belt clip. The spring broke forever ago (about when I dented the blade), so now I hold the button and use a wrist flick to get it open. After using it, I wish knife makers put a button like that on for a lock instead of a lever lock or something like that. The dent is still a little noticable after several sharpenings but so long as I don't use it for vascular surgery it works fine.
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