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Posted: 11/19/2012 6:07:09 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/20/2012 12:18:33 AM EST by texassooner]
Anyone here had a visit from the ATF as a result of a multiple sales form? I had 3 lowers, 2 ar's, 2 benelli sbe2s, and a s&w 642 transferred to me last weekend. I bet I get a visit.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:09:27 PM EST
is it a common thing they visit people? and what normally happens?
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:09:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Anyone here had a visit from the ATF as a result of a multiple sales form? I had 3 lowers, 2 ar's, 2 benelli sbe2s, and a s&w 642 transferred to me last weekend. I bet I get a visit.


Being Texas, I could see it. Close to the border.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:09:48 PM EST
I have bought twice that multiple times without getting one
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:10:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By wesmerc:
I have bought twice that multiple times without getting one


Yes but I think they pay closer attention to border states.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:10:35 PM EST
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Anyone here had a visit from the ATF as a result of a multiple sales form? I had 3 lowers, 2 ar's, 2 benelli sbe2s, and a s&w 642 transferred to me last weekend. I bet I get a visit.


Bet ya don't. That was an average Wednesday for me two years ago if you tossed in the fact I was picking up an approved silencer at my dealer while buying those.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:12:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 6:12:56 PM EST by htomeheb]
I know of one guy who's gotten visted, they just want to make sure you're not buying to re-sell. He was super excited to show the agents his collection, sadly they didnt share the same type of enthusiasm

I also know of one guy who might be fucked if they show up, since he's sold most of the shit he's gotten transferred to him...
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:12:46 PM EST

Originally Posted By EaZeNuTZ33:
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Anyone here had a visit from the ATF as a result of a multiple sales form? I had 3 lowers, 2 ar's, 2 benelli sbe2s, and a s&w 642 transferred to me last weekend. I bet I get a visit.


Bet ya don't. That was an average Wednesday for me two years ago if you tossed in the fact I was picking up an approved silencer at my dealer while buying those.

I wasn't aware there was a multiple sales form for non-border states two years ago.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:12:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By 1911xdm:
is it a common thing they visit people? and what normally happens?


From what I understand, they just want to make sure you still have the guns and you are not acting as a dealer or trafficker. Just a knock and talk. Not really a big deal.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:13:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Anyone here had a visit from the ATF as a result of a multiple sales form? I had 3 lowers, 2 ar's, 2 benelli sbe2s, and a s&w 642 transferred to me last weekend. I bet I get a visit.


Tin foil on to tight?
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:14:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 6:14:21 PM EST by texassooner]
Originally Posted By UrbancommandoX:
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Anyone here had a visit from the ATF as a result of a multiple sales form? I had 3 lowers, 2 ar's, 2 benelli sbe2s, and a s&w 642 transferred to me last weekend. I bet I get a visit.


Tin foil on to tight?


Nope. It happens in border states. It's real. Just do a little googling.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:15:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 6:17:48 PM EST by wintermute]
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By UrbancommandoX:
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Anyone here had a visit from the ATF as a result of a multiple sales form? I had 3 lowers, 2 ar's, 2 benelli sbe2s, and a s&w 642 transferred to me last weekend. I bet I get a visit.


Tin foil on to tight?


Nope. It happens in border states. It's real. Just do a little googling.


If you have nothing to hide, what's the issue?

ETA: Besides being miffed that your tax money is being wasted on a "check up" visit AFTER the background checks on all those points of sale. That's admitting that the system doesn't work. Not to mention in my state that's $10 per instant check - so roughly $80 of my own money would have been flushed doing paperwork only to get a home visit from the ATF.

Nevermind my first point, it bothers me now too.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:16:14 PM EST
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By 1911xdm:
is it a common thing they visit people? and what normally happens?


From what I understand, they just want to make sure you still have the guns and you are not acting as a dealer or trafficker. Just a knock and talk. Not really a big deal.


And do they demand to see the guns or can you use your first and forth amendments and tell them to take a hike?
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:17:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By wintermute:
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By UrbancommandoX:
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Anyone here had a visit from the ATF as a result of a multiple sales form? I had 3 lowers, 2 ar's, 2 benelli sbe2s, and a s&w 642 transferred to me last weekend. I bet I get a visit.


Tin foil on to tight?


Nope. It happens in border states. It's real. Just do a little googling.


If you have nothing to hide, what's the issue?


I didn't know that I said I had an issue with it.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:17:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 6:21:14 PM EST by Stegadeth]

Originally Posted By wintermute:
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By UrbancommandoX:
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Anyone here had a visit from the ATF as a result of a multiple sales form? I had 3 lowers, 2 ar's, 2 benelli sbe2s, and a s&w 642 transferred to me last weekend. I bet I get a visit.


Tin foil on to tight?


Nope. It happens in border states. It's real. Just do a little googling.


If you have nothing to hide, what's the issue?

The issue is that you folks in Tennessee aren't subject to it. Happy to see you rethought that!
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:17:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By 1911xdm:
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By 1911xdm:
is it a common thing they visit people? and what normally happens?


From what I understand, they just want to make sure you still have the guns and you are not acting as a dealer or trafficker. Just a knock and talk. Not really a big deal.


And do they demand to see the guns or can you use your first and forth amendments and tell them to take a hike?


Or just show them the guns and let them be on their way.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:18:11 PM EST
What's the protocol for that sort of thing? I assume they still need a warrant if you don't consent to a search of your property.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:18:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By wintermute:
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By UrbancommandoX:
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Anyone here had a visit from the ATF as a result of a multiple sales form? I had 3 lowers, 2 ar's, 2 benelli sbe2s, and a s&w 642 transferred to me last weekend. I bet I get a visit.


Tin foil on to tight?


Nope. It happens in border states. It's real. Just do a little googling.


If you have nothing to hide, what's the issue?


ETA: Besides being miffed that your tax money is being wasted on a "check up" visit AFTER the background checks on all those points of sale. That's admitting that the system doesn't work. Not to mention in my state that's $10 per instant check - so roughly $80 of my own money would have been flushed doing paperwork only to get a home visit from the ATF.

Nevermind my first point, it bothers me now too.


Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:19:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
What's the protocol for that sort of thing? I assume they still need a warrant if you don't consent to a search of your property.


I would assume so. You haven't done anything illegal but I would assume that you would cause yourself more trouble than nessisary by telling them to FO.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:20:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
What's the protocol for that sort of thing? I assume they still need a warrant if you don't consent to a search of your property.

Beats me. I know the game warden isn't hld to the same standard as the police, so where does BATFE fit in?
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:20:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By Stegadeth:

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
What's the protocol for that sort of thing? I assume they still need a warrant if you don't consent to a search of your property.

Beats me. I know the game warden isn't hld to the same standard as the police, so where does BATFE fit in?


Well judging from fast & furious........
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:22:06 PM EST
Just tell them you still have them and thanks for stopping by.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:22:48 PM EST
They just show up at your door. No call, no notice. Just show up.

If you don't answer your door, they leave their card in your mailbox and a voicemail on your phone.

They will followup.

Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:23:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By 1911xdm:
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By 1911xdm:
is it a common thing they visit people? and what normally happens?


From what I understand, they just want to make sure you still have the guns and you are not acting as a dealer or trafficker. Just a knock and talk. Not really a big deal.


And do they demand to see the guns or can you use your first and forth amendments and tell them to take a hike?


Or just show them the guns and let them be on their way.


not really the point..... Kinda not their business.....
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:23:59 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 6:28:11 PM EST by Jarhead_22]
That was kind of a dickish response I posted, and it had nothing to do with texassooner or his factual response to my earlier post,
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:24:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:
What's the protocol for that sort of thing? I assume they still need a warrant if you don't consent to a search of your property.

We have had only one customer that has been visited by the BATF, or I should say only one that we are aware of. The customer had bought several handguns over a 30-40 day period, and sometimes we had to do a multiple purchase form.

The customer told us that the local BATF agent contacted him and wanted to see the handguns that were on the multi purchase forms. The customer told them he would not allow them access to his house without a warrant, however the BATF was free to choose any four handguns from the forms, and he would bring them to the local BATF office. That satisfied the BATF agent, and the agent told the customer that it wouldn't be necessary to see the guns.

This is a customer who I trust to tell the truth and not some BS artist. The customer said he had every pistol he had bought, so he wasn't worried even if the ATF did get a warrant.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:24:45 PM EST
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By wesmerc:
I have bought twice that multiple times without getting one


Yes but I think they pay closer attention to border states.


Hmm, I thought that VT did share an international border...

Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:26:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By UrbancommandoX:
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Anyone here had a visit from the ATF as a result of a multiple sales form? I had 3 lowers, 2 ar's, 2 benelli sbe2s, and a s&w 642 transferred to me last weekend. I bet I get a visit.


Tin foil on to tight?


Nope. It happens in border states. It's real. Just do a little googling.


Shit, a friend of mine got a visit after a pawnshop he frequents here in IA had a compliance check! Agent doing the audit noticed his name over and over, and asked something like "Who's this XXXX that keeps popping up in your books? He should have his own FFL." Pawnshop owner explained that he's just a regular who collects, they checked into him and showed up at his door do verify that his collection was indeed legal and as large as the pawnshop had said. At last count it was 517. His "gun safe" is a converted bedroom with a good quality locking door.


Yes, ATF visits in non-border states can happen with 100% legal collections.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:27:46 PM EST
Originally Posted By racer934:
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By wesmerc:
I have bought twice that multiple times without getting one


Yes but I think they pay closer attention to border states.


Hmm, I thought that VT did share an international border...



Well, you got me there.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:29:41 PM EST

Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By wesmerc:
I have bought twice that multiple times without getting one


Yes but I think they pay closer attention to border states.



vermont is a border state
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:30:34 PM EST
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
They just show up at your door. No call, no notice. Just show up.

If you don't answer your door, they leave their card in your mailbox and a voicemail on your phone.

They will followup.



Did they come after you or just someone you know?
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:32:15 PM EST

Originally Posted By flyfishnepa:

Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By wesmerc:
I have bought twice that multiple times without getting one


Yes but I think they pay closer attention to border states.



vermont is a border state

Evil firearms and regular scissors with sharp pointy ends are verboten in Canada.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:33:13 PM EST
I know some people who buy like 4 or 5 guns a year..... Is that enough for them to get a visit? Or A guy at the range who bought 8 Mosins for the hell of it.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:34:36 PM EST
Originally Posted By 1911xdm:
I know some people who buy like 4 or 5 guns a year..... Is that enough for them to get a visit? Or A guy at the range who bought 8 Mosins for the hell of it.


http://www.atf.gov/firearms/industry/080911-qa-multiple-rifles.pdf
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:38:48 PM EST

Originally Posted By racer934:
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By wesmerc:
I have bought twice that multiple times without getting one


Yes but I think they pay closer attention to border states.


Hmm, I thought that VT did share an international border...


I think it has more to do with which country is on the other side of that border. America's hat isn't exactly known for their drug cartels cutting off people's faces and sewing them to a hockey puck. And this BS only happened after Fast and Furious.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:41:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By 1911xdm:
I know some people who buy like 4 or 5 guns a year..... Is that enough for them to get a visit? Or A guy at the range who bought 8 Mosins for the hell of it.


http://www.atf.gov/firearms/industry/080911-qa-multiple-rifles.pdf


so they have to be semi auto and above a .22. Very informative.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:42:22 PM EST
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
They just show up at your door. No call, no notice. Just show up.

If you don't answer your door, they leave their card in your mailbox and a voicemail on your phone.

They will followup.



Did they come after you or just someone you know?


Me but it wasn't for a multiple gun visit. It was for an 03 FFL inventory. Agent told me they were making inroads into border states because of gun smuggling to Mexico. Apparently, there's a big market for Mosin Nagants by cartel members or something.



Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:42:38 PM EST
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Anyone here had a visit from the ATF as a result of a multiple sales form? I had 3 lowers, 2 ar's, 2 benelli sbe2s, and a s&w 642 transferred to me last weekend. I bet I get a visit.


Unless you are in a bad area i really bet you won't get a visit. They've got bigger stuff on the plate.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:48:13 PM EST
This reminds me of the guy on here that bought a bunch of lowers .
He posted that he bought them to resell.

We told him not to do it . I think they started showing up in the EE. He got a visit.
Not sure what happened to him.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:48:28 PM EST

Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
They just show up at your door. No call, no notice. Just show up.

If you don't answer your door, they leave their card in your mailbox and a voicemail on your phone.

They will followup.



Did they come after you or just someone you know?


Me but it wasn't for a multiple gun visit. It was for an 03 FFL inventory. Agent told me they were making inroads into border states because of gun smuggling to Mexico. Apparently, there's a big market for Mosin Nagants by cartel members or something.




Seriously? Considering the pieces I've seen in the photos, I'd say there was more scratch around than slumming it with Mosins.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:53:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By Stegadeth:

Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
They just show up at your door. No call, no notice. Just show up.

If you don't answer your door, they leave their card in your mailbox and a voicemail on your phone.

They will followup.



Did they come after you or just someone you know?


Me but it wasn't for a multiple gun visit. It was for an 03 FFL inventory. Agent told me they were making inroads into border states because of gun smuggling to Mexico. Apparently, there's a big market for Mosin Nagants by cartel members or something.




Seriously? Considering the pieces I've seen in the photos, I'd say there was more scratch around than slumming it with Mosins.


Considering that C&R guns are 50 years old or older*, why else would ATF harass 03s? Agent told me point blank that the reason for the visit was to determine if I was funneling C&R firearms to Mexico.

I let my 03 lapse after this encounter.


*Yes I am aware of exceptions.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:56:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By itsARanchrifle:
This reminds me of the guy on here that bought a bunch of lowers .
He posted that he bought them to resell.

We told him not to do it . I think they started showing up in the EE. He got a visit.
Not sure what happened to him.


What if you bought complete rifles to sell the lowers and keep the uppers for cheaper?
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:58:07 PM EST
Someone here posted such a call/visit. It was a painless, two minute front door, no big deal discussion. No drama.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 6:58:43 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 7:00:00 PM EST by Stegadeth]

Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
Originally Posted By Stegadeth:

Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By Justa_TXguy:
They just show up at your door. No call, no notice. Just show up.

If you don't answer your door, they leave their card in your mailbox and a voicemail on your phone.

They will followup.



Did they come after you or just someone you know?


Me but it wasn't for a multiple gun visit. It was for an 03 FFL inventory. Agent told me they were making inroads into border states because of gun smuggling to Mexico. Apparently, there's a big market for Mosin Nagants by cartel members or something.




Seriously? Considering the pieces I've seen in the photos, I'd say there was more scratch around than slumming it with Mosins.


Considering that C&R guns are 50 years old or older*, why else would ATF harass 03s? Agent told me point blank that the reason for the visit was to determine if I was funneling C&R firearms to Mexico.

I let my 03 lapse after this encounter.


*Yes I am aware of exceptions.

Good point. Why would they do anything though? This thread is a perfect example. I think the Mexican border thing is just another form of incrementalism and soon all states will have the multiple guns form. After we all get used to the BATFE showing up on our doorstep, they'll ask for inspections, etc. I know, tinfoil, but who would've guessed 8 years ago we'd be running guns to drug cartels?

ETA and keep in mind this was all done by fiat, not laws passed by Congress.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 7:00:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By itsARanchrifle:
This reminds me of the guy on here that bought a bunch of lowers .
He posted that he bought them to resell.

We told him not to do it . I think they started showing up in the EE. He got a visit.
Not sure what happened to him.


What if you bought complete rifles to sell the lowers and keep the uppers for cheaper?


If you're buying firearms (lowers, of any type) for the sole purpose of resale and you don't have an FFL, you're buying yourself a ticket to Club Fed.

It's that simple.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 7:00:58 PM EST
I bought three lowers tonight from a home-based FFL. Not in a border state. I feel safe.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 7:01:45 PM EST

Originally Posted By Rugerlvr:
I bought three lowers tonight from a home-based FFL. Not in a border state. I feel safe.

You are for now.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 7:02:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By itsARanchrifle:
This reminds me of the guy on here that bought a bunch of lowers .
He posted that he bought them to resell.

We told him not to do it . I think they started showing up in the EE. He got a visit.
Not sure what happened to him.


What if you bought complete rifles to sell the lowers and keep the uppers for cheaper?


You can't buy them with the intention of reselling them.
If you have them and decide you would like to reduce your collection later it's ok.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 7:06:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By Stegadeth:

Originally Posted By Rugerlvr:
I bought three lowers tonight from a home-based FFL. Not in a border state. I feel safe.

You are for now.


Well, as a C&R licensee, I signed away much of my rights to privacy to the ATF anyway.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 7:06:19 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/27/2012 8:11:31 AM EST by texassooner]
Originally Posted By itsARanchrifle:
Originally Posted By texassooner:
Originally Posted By itsARanchrifle:
This reminds me of the guy on here that bought a bunch of lowers .
He posted that he bought them to resell.

We told him not to do it . I think they started showing up in the EE. He got a visit.
Not sure what happened to him.


What if you bought complete rifles to sell the lowers and keep the uppers for cheaper?


You can't buy them with the intention of reselling them.
If you have them and decide you would like to reduce your collection later it's ok.


Good to know.
Link Posted: 11/19/2012 7:09:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/19/2012 7:11:56 PM EST by ma96782]
Back in the Clinton days, I didn't get a visit but I did get a phone call.

LOL. Yes, I told them why I purchased 10 AR-15 receivers in one go. Since then, I've always wondered if that answer has anything to do with why I get "screened very carefully" by the TSA. Or maybe it was because of the letter to my Senator? In it, I asked that he resign, as he had shown no interst in protecting the Constitution of the US.

Aloha, Mark
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