Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 8/15/2005 10:26:54 PM EDT
Mr Thomas Sowell discusses illegals, terrorists, welfare and the stupidity of pc

Immigration taboos
Thomas Sowell (archive)
August 16, 2005
www.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/ts20050816.shtml
Immigration has joined the long list of subjects on which it is taboo to talk sense in plain English. At the heart of much confusion about immigration is the notion that we "need" immigrants -- legal or illegal -- to do work that Americans won't do.

What we "need" depends on what it costs and what we are willing to pay. If I were a billionaire, I might "need" my own private jet. But I can remember a time when my family didn't even "need" electricity.

Leaving prices out of the picture is probably the source of more fallacies in economics than any other single misconception. At current wages for low-level jobs and current levels of welfare, there are indeed many jobs that Americans will not take.

The fact that immigrants -- and especially illegal immigrants -- will take those jobs is the very reason the wage levels will not rise enough to attract Americans.

This is not rocket science. It is elementary supply and demand. Yet we continue to hear about the "need" for immigrants to do jobs that Americans will not do -- even though these are all jobs that Americans have done for generations before mass illegal immigration became a way of life.

There is more to this issue than economics. The same mindless substitution of rhetoric for thinking that prevails on economic issues also prevails on other aspects of immigration.

Bombings in London, Madrid and the 9/11 terrorist attacks here are all part of the high price being paid today for decades of importing human time bombs from the Arab world. That in turn has been the fruit of an unwillingness to filter out people according to the countries they come from.

That squeamishness is still with us today, as shown by all the hand-wringing about "profiling" Middle Eastern airline passengers.

No doubt most Middle Eastern airline passengers are not carrying any weapons or any bombs -- and wouldn't be, even if there were no airport security to go through. But it is also true that most of the time you will not be harmed by playing Russian roulette.

Europeans and Americans have for decades been playing Russian roulette with their loose immigration policies. The intelligentsia have told us that it would be wrong, and even racist, to set limits based on where the immigrants come from.

There are thousands of Americans who might still be alive if we had banned immigration from Saudi Arabia -- and perhaps that might be more important than the rhetoric of the intelligentsia.

In that rhetoric, all differences between peoples are magically transformed into mere "stereotypes" and "perceptions."

This blithely ignores hard data showing, for example, that people who come here from some countries are ten times more likely to go on welfare as people from some other countries.

The media and the intelligentsia love to say that most immigrants, from whatever group, are good people. But what "most" people from a given country are like is irrelevant.

If 85 percent of group A are fine people and 95 percent of group B are fine people, that means you are going to be importing three times as many undesirables when you let in people from Group A.

Citizen-of-the-world types are resistant to the idea of tightening our borders, and especially resistant to the idea of making a distinction between people from different countries. But the real problem is not their self-righteous fetishes but the fact that they have intimidated so many other people into silence.

In the current climate of political correctness it is taboo even to mention facts that go against the rosy picture of immigrants -- for example, the fact that Russia and Nigeria are always listed among the most corrupt countries on earth, and that Russian and Nigerian immigrants in the United States have already established patterns of crime well known to law enforcement but kept from the public by the mainstream media.

Self-preservation used to be called the first law of nature. But today self-preservation has been superseded by a need to preserve the prevailing rhetoric and visions. Immigration is just one of the things we can no longer discuss rationally as a result.
Link Posted: 8/15/2005 10:34:20 PM EDT

This blithely ignores hard data showing, for example, that people who come here from some countries are ten times more likely to go on welfare as people from some other countries.



Anyone got any welfare stats?
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:56:08 AM EDT
My solution is to just cut off welfare, period. If the scum resort to crime, it'll give the citizenry and the police an excuse to shoot them.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 4:59:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/16/2005 5:00:15 AM EDT by senorFrog]
Professor Thomas Sowell...



And one of his EXCELLENT books on economics! Highly recommended!

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 5:05:45 AM EDT
Smart man.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 5:30:18 AM EDT
HEY, FU! OK? "the stupidity of PC"??!! So whats better than PC? The MAC? I think not!
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:01:02 AM EDT

The fact that immigrants -- and especially illegal immigrants -- will take those jobs is the very reason the wage levels will not rise enough to attract Americans.

This is not rocket science. It is elementary supply and demand. Yet we continue to hear about the "need" for immigrants to do jobs that Americans will not do -- even though these are all jobs that Americans have done for generations before mass illegal immigration became a way of life.



Ever since massive felonious illegal immigration became a problem I've been trying to tell people that there is a reverse Trickle Down effect. If you believe in the Trickle Down effect, that we must give tax breaks to the rich because the effects trickle down to the rest of us in the form of new jobs, then you can't very well debate the existence of the reverse. It's simple economics that an increase in the supply of labor will decrease the price.

Granted that all labor is not interchangeable & that is why some jobs pay more than others, but if you are a well educated techie your pay is still being held down by illegal immigration. Why? The illegals seem to be unskilled or have manual labor skills. The unskilled will tend to mow lawns and do jobs such as roofing. From roofing that person learns to become a carpenter. The carpenter eventually has the opportunity to move into management or become an entrepreneur. Assuming that the carpenter becomes a manager, maybe the next step is to learn programming, then networking, then IT management. Assuming that another carpenter becomes an entrepreneur he might grow large enough to hire that illegal who is now an IT guy. Why would he hire a native born citizen when he can hire someone who shares his culture, language, experiences, and heritage?

So, what to call it? The Trickle Up Theory? The Reverse Trickle Down Theory?

[sgtar15 mode on] Discuss. [sgtar15 mode off]
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:07:09 AM EDT
Mr Sowell for President.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 7:21:14 AM EDT
Illegal Immigration proves subsidies & de-regulation work. You have a subsidized work force that is not regulated at almost any level. Subsidized because they get free (to them) healthcare, sometimes housing, etc. De-regulated because they can simply ignore many of the costly laws that American citizens need to comply with. I.e. car insurance, car registration, federal & state taxes, etc.


a well educated techie your pay is still being held down by illegal immigration.


I think IT salaries are impacted more by offshoring of IT services and onshore competition from foreign nationals working here LEGALLY via the H1-B visa program.

Link Posted: 8/16/2005 8:07:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By senorFrog: I think IT salaries are impacted more by offshoring of IT services and onshore competition from foreign nationals working here LEGALLY via the H1-B visa rogram.
Wrong, IT pay is going down because IT guys don't make/save that much money for the employer anymore. Your pay is based on actual/perceived value to the guy cutting the paychecks.
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:11:16 AM EDT

Self-preservation used to be called the first law of nature. But today self-preservation has been superseded by a need to preserve the prevailing rhetoric and visions. Immigration is just one of the things we can no longer discuss rationally as a result.


The worst part is that it isn't even "immigration", it IS an INVASION
Link Posted: 8/16/2005 11:24:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KlubMarcus:

Originally Posted By senorFrog: I think IT salaries are impacted more by offshoring of IT services and onshore competition from foreign nationals working here LEGALLY via the H1-B visa rogram.
Wrong, IT pay is going down because IT guys don't make/save that much money for the employer anymore. Your pay is based on actual/perceived value to the guy cutting the paychecks.



Not so much offshoring, because think that has run it's course and for the most part failed.

However, you can't tell me that flooding the onshore market with thousands of foriegn nationals under the H1-B Visa program, competing for the same jobs as US Citizens HELPS salaries.

When Bush talks about a guest worker program be very scared. We already have one...it's called H1-B and negatively impacted US IT workers.
Top Top