Posted: 4/13/2001 3:50:56 PM EDT
So I have 2 legally purchased pistols here in North Carolina. Im moving to New York, Do I need to apply for a pistol permit?
Q - How does the law apply to licensed individuals from other states who move to New York and wish to posses their handguns here?
New York State currently has no reciprocal agreements with any other states and does not recognize any other state's licenses. It would be unlawful for an individual to move to New York State and possess handguns in the state without first being licensed by the county in which the individual will reside.
There are two options for individuals already in possession of handguns in their home state.
They must either leave the weapons in the possession of an individual in their home state who may lawfully possess them until such time as the owner can legally possess them in New York State, or
They may leave them in the possession of a licensed gun dealer in their home state who would be willing to hold them until that idividual can lawfully possess them in New York State.
In either case, the weapons can only be lawfully brought into New York State via a licensed dealer in the home state shipping them to a licensed dealer in New York State from whom the owner may take possession.
Weapons personally brought into New York by the owner would result in forfeiture of the weapon and possible criminal charges brought against the owner.
Better buy a baseball bat.
I hope you have a really good reason to come here. Maybe a good job or something? Unless your LE, in most counties you'd be hard pressed to get a full carry. If you carry because you "frequently have large sums of cash" on you you'll get a "Terms Of Employment Permit." Otherwise you'll get a "Target and Hunting" permit which usually stipulates "To and Form Range" on it. If the T&H is all your after then your fine, just don't expect a CCW or anything like that. I live in Suffolk county and work in Nassau county(Long Island) and they're pretty restrictive about permits here. Not to mention Nassa County's new $250 dollar initial application and renewal fee(due to bugetary stupidity.) I hope your at least moving upstate.
I have the paperwork right here in front of me. I'm active duty Mil but home of record is NY. I had my Dad ask the NY county guy if I was eligible for NY pistol permits being that I'm a NRA instructor and teach CC here in NC. The clerk said no problem though I have to go back up to get the paper work notarized.
NY permits are a de-facto carry permit for limited use (hiking, etc.) if you word your request correctly. The buzzwords are that you need the pistol for hiking, fishing, camping ans target shooting. This allows CC through most areas (not NYC).
rkbar15 is spot on. The gun laws in NY are insane. Hence the general population has almost no contact with firearms, especially in the NYC area. These, of course, ads to the Anti movement because the only contact that most folks have are negative ones.
I'm also in NC. A word of caution.....ground travel to NY from NC takes you through NJ. BEWARE! Jersey State troopers can be pretty tough. They have been known to arrest other LEAs because they were carrying an unregistered pistol in the great state of NJ. It is officer's discretion if he wants to recognize the right to travel through (weapon in trunk, no ammo, locked case, etc.)
I’ll email you a JPEG of the instructions and the actual paper work if you’d like. You’ll have to wait to you move there before you bring in your pistol. I had given a pistol to my younger brother and he through hell trying to get it registered. The clerk couldn’t understand that there are some states that allow the citizens to own pistol without state control. There even was talk of confiscation! We finally got it all straight by him filling out the paperwork first and then having me bring the pistol up to him.
Here's a copy of the permit application. You'll need 4 character references from the county in NY that you'll reside.....
It all depends on what county in NY you're applying in and sometimes what judge gets your application. Some counties only issue full unrestricted carry permits while others restrict them in various ways. They must issue you a target/hunting or premises permit if no good cause exists for a denial.
Even if restricted it's an administrative restriction only. There is no provision in the penal law that further restricts a carry permit. You cannot be prosecuted for violating a carry restriction. Your licensing officer (usually a judge) can revoke your license if you are reported by to be carrying in violation of a restriction.
NJ State Police were reported to be harassing NY Police Officers for carrying their duty weapons while attending a funeral for a slain NJ Police Officer.
In NJ you need a pistol license for a BB pistol and a firearms ID card to purchase BB's!
Lucasf, What County are you considering moving into? You may want to consider moving into an adjecent "gun friendly" county. Like the other postingds have said - some counties are less restrictive as far as "Full Carry Permits" are issued. Let us NY owners know, as we may be helpfull in helping you decide what county is better.
If I remember correctly, moving into state with handguns, the handguns are considered "contrband", You MUST have Pistol Permit first, then take the matter up with your county Permit Office. Best to have receipts to document you are proper owner of said gun(s). I lived in ERIE Co. for 7yr, you could not take gun from store until you took receipt to Permit Office and register on your permit, they give you a ticket, and you go claim handgun. People in Niagra Co., I think they could cash and carry, and register at their first convienence.
As a side note:: NEW YORK IS NOT CLASS 3 FRIENDLY,,,,No MG's, No suppressors, I had a SBR
on my Pistol Permit, though I hear now you can't have SBR or SBS......
If you are going to New York City,,,,,YOU ARE SCREWED!!
Pretty much everyone on here is correct. NYC and State do not recognize out of state permits. You will not be allowed to house the guns in the state until you are issued a valid permit. One other option that no one seems to have posted is that you are actually allowed to travel through NYC and the State without a license. You cannot stop during your trip at anytime. But you can actually report to a nearby police precinct and surrender the weapons for safe keeping in a locker until you can acquire the permit. How comfortable you feel having your guns stored in a police precinct until you get a permit is up to you. You'd be screwed immensely, however, if you were denied any type of permit. The department would eventually dispose of those firearms and you would lose them all.
Overall, the most I can say for all other counties in New York State, other than NYC (where I unfortunately reside), is that you have a chance, whether easy or hard, to receive a permit. In NYC you either have to be connected, work as a security guard, or own businesses and carry large amounts of cash. A normal joe like myself can't get a license for concealed carry. NYC law is very vague as to requirements needed to receive such a permit and the licensing department of the NYPD uses the vague wording to deny most, if not all, individuals who apply. Thank GOD I'm applying to become a police officer (NYPD or Nassau..Hoping for Nassau). The situation sucks immensely for my friends who will remain civilians.
Thanks for the Info. Im not moving to the City that is for sure. I have a job in Cooperstown. When I drive up there I totally avoid Maryland, New Jersey and NYC just because of their Law.
lucasf - I think Cooperstown is in Otsego County, which I've heard is one of the easier places to get a NYS Pistol Permit. It's actually not far from where I live, and most counties (except Albany County) are decent when it comes to pistol permits.
Anybody have a feeling about Orange County, NY permits/CCW .. Been thinking of filing for them, but worried how it would look if I applied and was rejected.
Clean record, no large sums of cash or jewels, just want a little extra protection...
HOW TO GET A PISTOL LICENSE IN ORANGE COUNTY, NEW YORK:
You have three options in NY state if moving here with your handguns:
1-You can store them for up to one year at your local LEO agency while your permit is being processed. After one year, the agency must dispose of the guns if you have made no attempt to take possession of the guns or have them transferred to another person.
2- Transfer them to a licensed person you trust while you are getting your permit.
3- Forward them to a local FFL who can keep them on their books while you apply for your permit. I'm currently doing that for a friend who's moving back into NY after being gone for 10 years who had surrendered his old permit.
To expand on my above post, here are the appropriate sections (the NYSP ignored this in their website cited above):
NYS Penal law 265.20:
(f) A person voluntarily surrendering such weapon, instrument,
appliance or substance, provided that such surrender shall be made to
the superintendent of the division of state police or a member thereof
designated by such superintendent, or to the sheriff of the county in
which such person resides, or in the county of Nassau or in the towns of
Babylon, Brookhaven, Huntington, Islip and Smithtown in the county of
Suffolk to the commissioner of police or a member of the police
department thereof designated by such commissioner, or if such person
resides in a city, town other than one named in this subparagraph, or
village to the police commissioner or head of the police force or
department thereof or to a member of the force or department designated
by such commissioner or head; and provided, further, that the same shall
be surrendered by such person in accordance with such terms and
conditions as may be established by such superintendent, sheriff, police
force or department. Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed as
granting immunity from prosecution for any crime or offense except that
of unlawful possession of such weapons, instruments, appliances or
substances surrendered as herein provided. A person who possesses any
such weapon, instrument, appliance or substance as an executor or
administrator or any other lawful possessor of such property of a
decedent may continue to possess such property for a period not over
fifteen days. If such property is not lawfully disposed of within such
period the possessor shall deliver it to an appropriate official
described in this paragraph or such property may be delivered to the
superintendent of state police. Such officer shall hold it and shall
thereafter deliver it on the written request of such executor,
administrator or other lawful possessor of such property to a named
person, provided such named person is licensed to or is otherwise
lawfully permitted to possess the same. If no request to deliver the
property is received by such official within two years of the delivery
of such property, such official shall dispose of it in accordance with
the provisions of section 400.05 of this chapter.
NY Penal Law 400.05.6 :
6. A firearm which is surrendered or voluntarily delivered pursuant to
section 265.20 of this chapter and which has not been declared a
nuisance pursuant to subdivision one of this section, shall be retained
by the official to whom it was delivered for a period not to exceed one
year. Prior to the expiration of such time period, the person who
surrendered such firearm or firearms, shall have the right to arrange
for the sale, or transfer, of such weapons to a dealer in firearms
licensed in accordance with this chapter or for the transfer of such
weapons to himself provided that a license therefor has been issued in
accordance with this chapter. If no such disposition is made within the
time provided, the weapon, or weapons concerned shall be declared a
nuisance and shall be disposed of in accordance with the provisions of
You would have to be crazy to turn your handguns over to a Police Department for safe keeping. If they were still around after a year I doubt they would be in the same condition as when you left them.
You would also have some explaining to do to your investigator as to why you illegally transported your handguns into NYS.
You get a receipt for the weapons when you turn them in, so theres a chain of custody started..the guns wont simply disappear. You have a year to reclaim them, more than adequate, given the average 6 month turnaround time from application to issuance.
The cite I gave above clearly states that you cannot be charged if you voluntarily turn them in pending the permits issuance.
I suspect you simply don't want LEO's to know what guns you might have..as you are well aware, thats moot in NY anyway, since each handgun is listed individually on the permit.
You will get a receipt but that doesn't mean your property will be there when it's time to retrieve it. Items disappear from property rooms all the time. All it takes is a clerical error and your firearms will become manhole covers.
There is also a good chance they will damage your firearms while storing and processing them. I'm also sure you would have to sign a disclaimer that they would not be responsible for any loss or damage that was incurred while they were in their custody.
I acn't speak for other agencies, but in mine, only 2 people have access to the firearms.
Just how much personal knowledge do you have about LE property tracking, or are you just passing on 2nd hand information ?
April 6, 2000, The Associated Press State & Local Wire, Thursday, BC cycle
HEADLINE: Former deputy pleads innocent to stealing from sheriff's office
April 10, 2000, Monday, PM cycle
HEADLINE: Newport men formally charged with stealing guns
DATELINE: MONTPELIER, VT
April 12, 2000, Wednesday
HEADLINE: Both offices want to know what happened to guns
April 12, 2000, Wednesday SUBURBAN EDITION
HEADLINE: Medford chief charged over missing handgun
DATELINE: MEDFORD, OK
April 12, 2000, Wednesday FINAL EDITION
HEADLINE: Drugs, cash still missing Fresno police chief says he will request an outside investigation to track down cocaine and $ 172,807.
DATELINE: Fresno, CA
April 13, 2000, Thursday, ALL EDITIONS
HEADLINE: FOURTH PERSON ARRESTED IN PROBE; GREENSBORO POLICE RELEASE FEW DETAILS ABOUT THE INTERNAL INVESTIGATION INTO; EVIDENCE ROOM CRIMES.
DATELINE: GREENSBORO, NC
April 14, 2000, Friday, The Associated Press State & Local Wire, BC cycle
HEADLINE: Former police lieutenant faces felony charges
DATELINE: DENVER, CO
April 17, 2000, Monday, CITY EDITION
HEADLINE: POLICE OFFICES BURGLARIZED; THIEVES HIT OUTPOSTS IN BOTH N.C., VA.
DATELINE: FRANKLIN, VA
April 18, 2000, Tuesday THIRD EDITION
HEADLINE: Stolen evidence latest indignity for insolvent city
DATELINE: WESTMINSTER, TX
April 22, 2000, Saturday
HEADLINE: Police keep employee on paid leave for months; $13,448 missing from evidence room, record
DATELINE: Knox County, TN
April 24, 2000, Monday FINAL EDITION
SECTION: LOCAL NEWS; Pg. B1
HEADLINE: Talk of missing items private Fresno council won't raise issue in this week's session.
DATELINE: Fresno, CA
April 26, 2000, Wednesday SUBURBAN EDITION
HEADLINE: Judge sets hearing for Kiefer officers
April 26, 2000, Wednesday, The Associated Press State & Local Wire, BC cycle
HEADLINE: Santa Fe police investigating missing evidence
DATELINE: SANTA FE, NM
April 26, 2000, Wednesday
HEADLINE: COPS KEEP UP SEARCH FOR MISSING CASH CRIMINAL INQUIRY MAY BE LAUNCHED IF MONEY ISN'T FOUND, CHIEF SAYS
DATELINE: DENVER, CO
April 27, 2000, Thursday, The Associated Press State & Local Wire, AM cycle
HEADLINE: Former detective pleads no contest to drug charges
DATELINE: ROSWELL, N.M.
April 30, 2000, Sunday METRO EDITION
HEADLINE: "Shopping sprees" for guns *** Police evidence room was a Source for weapons
DATELINE: Baton Rouge, LA
Dude, you are paranoid. You can take a handgun across state lines into any state as long as the state that is your final destination is one in which you can legally posess the handgun. People do it for shooting matches all the time.
Just store it in a locked case.
NJ sucks, you can get to NY without driving through it via I-81. Why go any other way? I won't set foot in Communist NJ.
I moved out of NY State because of the taxes and the gun laws. Upstate NY is bleak! Why would you move from NC, where the economy is so much better? Cooperstown is nice, but Otsego County is poor in general. Very rural. I hope you really like shooting, that's all there is to do!
Live in Delaware County if you want a CC permit. Even in the sticks, there are way too many liberals who hate guns it seems. You probably won't have any problem, but you never know in NY. I used to live in Otsego County.
Don't even think if turning any guns in to the police! They are the biggest thieves going! If they like something, it will disappear. I've heard many stories about guns (and everything else imaginable) that were never making it to the property auctions. A lot of crooked cops up there.
You must keep a running database of police misdeeds so you can pull them out anytime to slam LEO's....either that or you spent an awful lot of time last night on a search of the internet that no normal person would invest....
Trick: Sorry that you feel that way. Like I said, our evidence/ weapons procedures are tight.
To get back to the original topic, thats still a lawful way to bring the weapons into the state.
Search the internet, bash leos? I'm about as pro leo as you can get but a crooked leo is just a dirt bag like any other criminal except that he/she is a little worse for breaking the public trust they were sworn to uphold.
As far as searching the internet you're kidding right? IAPA is the International Association for Property and Evidence. It's the largest property and evidence association in the United States. It was established to further the education, training and professional growth of law enforcement property and evidence personnel. Its regular membership is restricted to law enforcement personnel.
The database is maintained by IAPA not me.
As far as the original topic it is my opinion that to illegally bring your unregistered handguns into NYS and then turn them over to a LE agency for "safe keeping" is crazy.
Let me ask you a question. Does your agency require that the subject sign a waiver absolving them of all responsibility for the loss or damage of firearms left for safe keeping?
Never heard of the organization; guess they have groups for almost anything now : )
To be honest, I don't know what the agency policy is on the issue; I don't deal with it directly, as thats something that would fall under the control of the Civil Sgt... I have never seen a form like the one you describe, but when I get a chance I'll ask around as to what they require.
As for being "crazy", the statute allows it; you are not forced to take that route. If you want to ship through an FFL and pay the additional fees, etc, fine, go right ahead people. I'm more than willing to do tranfers for people who need that service as well. Just not neccesary.....