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Posted: 9/29/2004 9:00:03 PM EST
First of all asking do we know to little or too much about our presidents is a yes and no
answer. We know too much about their privacy lives not enough about their political
lives. The impact that the so-called “character issue” have on selecting the president is
what their background contains, what their belief, basically things that does really matter,
most public care that you are going to solve their problem or at least come to some
agreement or meet half way. I don’t believe that the county not only good men any
more because women like Hilary Clinton is not a woman but yet she has the
characteristics of a great leader and that this country needs.

I mostly defiantly believe that all political lie, even the so-called “honest” ones. I don’t
think that voters reward “honest” politicians by voting and standing 100% behind them.
Politicians lie more than ordinary citizens because they on the hand are trying to win
votes and become popular with their public. President tells more lies than President
Clinton. For an example I pull it up the website and it stated, “Bush Stands out in Era
of Liars”… “President bush proclaimed that a report by leading economists concluded that
the economy would grow by 3.3 percent in 2003 if his tax cut proposals were adopted.
No such report exitst.” Gordon Livingston, 06.03.03
I mean Bush has been lying since 1998 and pretty much all his lies are unacceptable.

Found at : http://www.bushwatch.com/bushlies.htm

President should have not been impeached is what I thought the whole time, it was his
personally life. He was not morally unfit to serve. As long as he committed his time to
the country what he did on his own time was none of hour business. The Articles of
Impeachment against Bill Clinton were:
· Article 1 – Perjury before a grand jury
· Article 2 – Perjury in the Jones case
· Article 3 – Obstruction of justice
· Article 4 – Abuse of power

Last of all I believe that is permissible to lie when it come your personally life, regarding
being a president in certain cases.

Case 1: During the Kennedy-Nixon debates, J.F.K lied about have Addison disease
because I feel that it was that he didn’t want the nation to feel he was not up for the job.

Case 2: President Clinton when he lied about not having relation with Lewinsky, it was
none of our business to judge him because it happen in every day life and it is not
display like his was.

So in these two case the lies are acceptable.

Go visit: http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLTICS/1998/08/02/time/prez.lies.htm
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 9:02:12 PM EST


Please tell me you didn't write that. I can't make sense of it.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 9:04:11 PM EST
What the hell is that? Is that an encrypted message?
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 9:05:52 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:


Please tell me you didn't write that. I can't make sense of it.



LOL...nope not me one of my classmates wrote it.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 9:06:29 PM EST
Another students response...


As Americans we know too much about our presidents, in Clinton’s election the media
went as far as asking the kind of briefs he favors, what does that have to do with him
being a good or bad president? Most of the times we say we want a good leader.
Personal knowledge of the office makes the office less prestigious but more powerful,
because the president can use his influence on the public to sway votes to his favor in
congress. I believe that all politicians lie, some may not tell us the whole truth, by failing
to mention an important peace of information, some may just bluntly lie, and some just
tell us what we want to hear to they may get our votes. An example of unacceptable lie,
is when Bush told Americans that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction and that was the
reason for going to war. But after not finding the weapons it conveniently changed to
liberating Iraqis. No I do not think that voters reward honest politicians, voters reward
politicians who tell them what they want to hear. We all lie at some point or another, but I
feel that even good and honest politicians are forced to lie at some point so as not lose
their votes, so yes they lie more than ordinary citizens. Keep in mind that they are trying
to please this large group of people who have different needs.

The only conditions under which it is permissible for the president to use a lie, if the truth
will risk the national security of Americans in or outside the country, for instance being
deceitful about an ongoing investigation that might stop a terrorist attack. But I feel that
after everything is cleared out then the president has an obligation let us know of the
truth. Although I feel that it was unacceptable of Bill Clinton to lie about his affair, I also
feel that it was non of our business. Bill Clinton should not have to answer to us about his
infidelities, this is between him and his family, provided he is doing his job as the
president, and if it was a conceptual relationship between two adults, then it was not rape,
thus none of my business, but Hillary Clinton’s. Infect instead of lying Bill Clinton should
have just said that his was a personal problem and he will sort it out with his family. The
articles of Impeachment against Bill Clinton were; Perjury before the grand jury, Perjury
in the Jones case, Obstruction of justice, Abuse of power. If he would have come forward
and told the truth about this then he would not have to lie about the affair, thus lying to
the court which was really why he was impeached. Bill’s enemies also twisted the law to
their advantage. Bill should not have been on trial in the first place because of the affair,
if so, then everyone in America who has an affair should be charged.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 9:09:25 PM EST
Calling the President Bill? He is President Clinton, not the ice cream truck driver. How old are your classmates?
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 9:10:18 PM EST

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:
Calling the President Bill? He is President Clinton, not the ice cream truck driver. How old are your classmates?



Don't know it's a college class all done online.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 9:25:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/29/2004 10:09:12 PM EST by urbankaos04]
The first guy's response is GRAMMAR NAZI's worst nightmare!
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 9:45:45 PM EST
My head hurts just trying to decipher that first one. Someone needs to raise their acceptance standards. I am a non-traditional student at a small university and I run into this in every class, never fails that I get one or two idiots like this for every group project. You just have to write off anything they may have to contribute, because it will absolutely suck ass.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 9:47:37 PM EST
I cant read that shit!


SGatr15
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 9:56:50 PM EST
As I recall the boxer vs briefs question was during an MTV question and answer. What President Clinton
does / did in his private life is between him and his wife, but in this age of fishbowl politics people want to know everything about the candidates/officeholders. President Clinton was not on trail for having an affair, he was charged with sexual harassment by Paula Jones. When he lied to the grand jury, obstructed justice by telling witnesses to lie for him and other abuses during the investigation, the Congress voted to impeach him.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 10:01:40 PM EST
Damn, gave me a goddam headache.
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 10:09:11 PM EST
i hope a highschooler composed that hunk of psychobabble bullshit
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 10:11:55 PM EST
Nope. It was submission by someone for a college class. Glad to see ed-juh-meh-kashun at work, huh?
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 10:14:47 PM EST
idiots like that make me wonder why i even bothered finishing college
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 10:22:20 PM EST
No shizzle, my nizzle!
Link Posted: 9/29/2004 11:50:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 9/29/2004 11:51:31 PM EST by smokycity]

Originally Posted By Guns_N_Shizzle:
idiots like that make me wonder why i even bothered finishing college



College is over rated. Too bad common sense and experience don't count anymore. I'm almost 40 years old, and I am going back to school. I have gone as far as I can in my chosen profession without a degree. I have 20 years of experience, but a guy with a BA will rise to a managment position well before I ever will. But, if I go get a degree, I will be considered at the same level or higher to do the same work and then get considered for further advancement. Yet when the boss has questions about something who does he come too? The guy with the most experience. Go figure.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 12:25:17 AM EST
What a load of woof.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 3:14:03 AM EST
These are college students?!
Man, get them some English classes quick!
I seriously hope, for their sake, that these were not graded papers because they would have that fabulous red ink all over them.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 3:36:05 AM EST
It is a sad reality that a great majority of kids even in college these days are not capable of coherently expressing a thought either in speech or on paper. This is more and more why college is a requirement, because the product of the public schools is less and less acceptable. Thus college must make up for the failures of the lower school systems.

I have always done well on essays and similar things because I was able to articulate my thoughts and provide a logical construct as to why my core beliefs make sense. I hold a core of beliefs by which all things are judged in a fairly logical fashion, and I can then respond to a question such as this without stumbling.

Part of the problem is that when you read these types of responses, you see people who do not do much heavy thinking grappling with concepts and datat that their mind does not have control of. Because there is little worthy inner life which is the fountain of writing and thought, trying to illicit views into the core of the students is like trying to draw water from a mostly dry well.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 3:39:41 AM EST

Originally Posted By smokycity:

Originally Posted By Guns_N_Shizzle:
idiots like that make me wonder why i even bothered finishing college



College is over rated. Too bad common sense and experience don't count anymore. I'm almost 40 years old, and I am going back to school. I have gone as far as I can in my chosen profession without a degree. I have 20 years of experience, but a guy with a BA will rise to a managment position well before I ever will. But, if I go get a degree, I will be considered at the same level or higher to do the same work and then get considered for further advancement. Yet when the boss has questions about something who does he come too? The guy with the most experience. Go figure.



Common sense is not at all common, and it is not taught in a great many of the academic degrees out there.

Experience is ALWAYS better than a degree. When the chips are down, management understands this. But they reward degrees more than experience simply because they think that is what you are supposed to do. It is a myth that must be destroyed.

I am not against education. In fact, I think a great many people in this nation could use a great deal more education. (Myself included....) But there are some lessons and some traits that only the crucible of experience will produce.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 3:49:10 AM EST
its this mumbo jumbo crap that prof's cant stand! it gives them headaches too and they will just pass you to take the pain away.

All I can say is that dumbass is going to be a manager someday with the amount of BS that is spewing out- and the rest of us are going to have to sit in a 4 hour meeting and listen to it instead of getting REAL work done.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 4:02:44 AM EST

Originally Posted By jadams951:

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:


Please tell me you didn't write that. I can't make sense of it.



LOL...nope not me one of my classmates wrote it.



Oh thank God. I just woke up and thought I was having a stroke. I was going to dial 911
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 4:06:19 AM EST
I saw a thread on here where over half of the people going to HCC needed remedial english and math. That says a lot about the quality of the education that you are getting for your tax dollar.
You ever wonder why they don't want the voucher system in public education? The reason is so this kind of crap can go on, without repercussions.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 4:06:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 9/30/2004 4:07:11 AM EST by Admiral_Crunch]
If I were grading that paper, I think I'd give them a zero, hand it back to them and tell them they have until the end of that day to get the grammar corrected, and I'll rescore, minus 20% for being late and minus 10% for each remaining grammar error. -- first warning and all. After that, they just get an F.

Writing a college paper with no grammar skills is like trying to rebuild your transmission when you don't know how to put gas in your car.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 4:10:12 AM EST
Perhaps the most convoluted logic I have seen posted recently.

It's like blaming Bush for creating Iraq's hot spots...well duh, we have the terrorists bottled up in three provinces while 15 other provinces are rebuilding and normalizing nicely. Sounds like a good plan to me.

Bush Lied about WMDs: Too bad he got his intel from the previous administration, who all publically stated the Saddam had WMDs and had to be dealt with.

Bush will bring back the draft: There have been two bills introduced to reinstate the draft, both exclusively sponsored by Democrats. The Republicans have promised they will be DOA.

Probably the biggest lie of this campaign is about how much Bush lies.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 4:12:08 AM EST
One day, these people will be running the country.
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 4:20:43 AM EST

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
One day, these people will be running the country.



I hear New Zealand is nice....
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 4:23:54 AM EST
These are college students???

That's scary, but what's even more scary is that they are college students that think they know everything there is to know about politics and government...
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 4:31:03 AM EST
Link Posted: 9/30/2004 5:39:57 AM EST
Is this a UOP on-line class? The guy sounds ESL.
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