[ARCHIVED THREAD] - More LCS fun (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 5/9/2012 7:58:50 PM EDT
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I'm just postin' this to see what dport and the other Navy guys say.
R 071920Z MAY 12
FM COMNAVSURFPAC SAN DIEGO CA TO USS FREEDOM INFO COMPACFLT PEARL HARBOR HI COMNAVSURFPAC SAN DIEGO CA PRESINSURV VIRGINIA BEACH VA COMLCSRON SAN DIEGO CA COMLCSRON ONE BT UNCLAS MSGID/GENADMIN/COMNAVSURFPAC SAN DIEGO CA/0805/MAY// SUBJ/TYCOM MATERIAL INSPECTION REPORT FOR USS FREEDOM (LCS 1)// REF/A/MSGID:DOC/INSURV/28FEB2008/4370.1// REF/B/MSGID:DOC/INSURV/06JUN2008/4730.3// REF/C/MSGID:DOC/COMUSFLTFORCOM/11MAR2008/4790.3// REF/D/MSGID:DOC/INSURV/26OCT1999/4730.11// REF/E/MSGID:DOC/OPNAV/26DEC2007/5090.1// REF/F/MSGID:DOC/OPNAV/30MAY2007/5100.19// REF/G/MSGID:DOC/NAVSEA/15APR2004/9593.2// REF/H/MSGID:DOC/CNSP/22SEP2011// REF A IS INSURVINST 4730.1 SERIES, MATERIAL INSPECTIONS OF SURFACE SHIPS. REF B IS INSURVINST 4730.3 SERIES, TRIALS OF SURFACE SHIPS. REF C IS COMUSFLTFORCOMINST 4790.3 SERIES, JOINT FLEET MAINTENANCE MANUAL (VOL IV). REF D IS INSURVINST 4730.11 SERIES, DOCUMENTATION OF DISCREPANCIES. REF E IS OPNAVINST 5090.1 SERIES, ENVIRONMENTAL AND NATURAL RESOURCES PROGRAM MANUAL. REF F IS OPNAVINST 5100.19 SERIES, NAVY SAFETY AND OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH (SOH) INSPECTION AND CERTIFICATION PROCESS FOR OIL POLLUTION ABATEMENT (OPA) SYSTEMS IN U.S. NAVY SURFACE SHIPS AND CRAFT. REF H IS CNSPINST 4730.2, TYCOM MATERIAL INSPECTION (TMI) PROCESS.// GENTEXT/REMARKS/ 1. A TMI WAS CONDUCTED ON USS FREEDOM (LCS 1) IN SAN DIEGO, CA FROM 3-5 MAY, 2012. THE TMI TEAM (TMIT) ASSESSES FREEDOM AS A HIGH RISK TO PASS THEIR SPECIAL TRIAL AND DOES NOT RECOMMEND THE SHIP PROCEED TO THEIR SCHEDULED SPECIAL TRIAL UNTIL THE SHIP COMPLETES A SATISFACTORY RE-DEMONSTRATION. 2. SENIOR INSPECTOR COMMENTS: USS FREEDOM (LCS 1) IS EVALUATED AS A "NO-GO" AND IS NOT RECOMMENDED TO PROCEED WITH THE SCHEDULED SPECIAL TRIAL (ST). FREEDOM'S CREW AND CONTRACTORS WERE NOT PREPARED FOR THE INSPECTION. BOTH ENTITIES WERE UNFAMILIAR WITH THE CONDUCT OF INSURV MATERIAL CHECKS. EXECUTION OF THE SOE WAS VERY POOR. THERE WAS CONFUSION BETWEEN CONTRACTOR AND CREW RESPONSIBILITIES FOR THE PERFORMANCE OF EQUIPMENT CHECKS. THE INSPECTION EXPERIENCE LEVEL FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE CREW IS LOW ALTHOUGH THEY DID DEMONSTRATE A GOOD POSITIVE ATTITUDE. THE CREW AND CONTRACTORS NEED TO CONTINUE TO FAMILIARIZE THEMSELVES WITH THE SHIP'S EQUIPMENT, OPERATIONAL PROCEDURES, IMPROVE IN PRESENTATION/DEMONSTRATIONS AND AGGRESSIVELY MANAGE/COORDINATE SOE. THE SHIP WAS CLEAN. SEVERAL AREAS REQUIRE PRESERVATION. SAFETY PROGRAMS ABOARD THE SHIP ARE NON-EXISTENT. THE SHIP DID DEMONSTRATE THE ABILITY TO SELF-ASSESS. HOWEVER, THEY ARE NOT AGGRESSIVELY REPORTING AND PURSUING RESOLUTION OF THE DEFICIENCIES THEY HAVE IDENTIFIED. 3. DEMONSTRATION RESULTS: A. FULL POWER-RED B. QUICK REVERSAL ASTERN-RED C. QUICK REVERSAL AHEAD-RED D. STEERING-GREEN E. ANCHOR DROP-YELLOW F. AFFF TEST-RED G. SD DTE-YELLOW H. LONG RANGE AIR SEARCH- GREEN I. 57MM LIVE FIRE-GREEN 4. FUNCTIONAL AREA RESULTS: A. AVIATION-RED B. COMMUNICATIONS-RED C. INFO SYSTEMS-GREEN D. NAVIGATION-YELLOW E. OPERATIONS-RED F. WEAPONS-YELLOW G. AUXILIARIES-RED H. ELECTRICAL-RED I. MAIN PROPULSION-RED J. DAMAGE CONTROL-RED K. DECK-RED L. ENVIR PROTECTION-YELLOW M. OCCUPATIONAL HEALTH-RED N. MEDICAL-YELLOW O. VENTILATION-YELLOW P. HABITABILITY-GREEN Q. SUPPLY-YELLOW R. ABILITY TO SELF-ASSESS-GREEN S. 3M SPOTCHECKS-RED T. ATIS DATABASE-NOT DEMONSTRATED// Thank god it was clean and they have a positive attitude. |
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I love those turrets! Can we offload the LCS class frigates onto the USCG in order to help resolve their shipbuilding woes? |
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Bring 'em back! http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/images/dd-699-h96835k.jpg I love those turrets! Can we offload the LCS class frigates onto the USCG in order to help resolve their shipbuilding woes? Actually, that's not the worst suggestion. Two helos and light armament would work out well, along with the LCS's speed. |
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Quoted: Quoted: I love those turrets! Can we offload the LCS class frigates onto the USCG in order to help resolve their shipbuilding woes? Actually, that's not the worst suggestion. Two helos and light armament would work out well, along with the LCS's speed. Thanks. My comment is mostly in jest, as we would combine two deficiencies. I do agree that the hull form for LCS-1 class could be well utilized for USCG cutters. |
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Quoted:
I'm just postin' this to see what dport and the other Navy guys say. R 071920Z MAY 12
FM COMNAVSURFPAC SAN DIEGO CA TO USS FREEDOM INFO COMPACFLT PEARL HARBOR HI COMNAVSURFPAC SAN DIEGO CA PRESINSURV VIRGINIA BEACH VA COMLCSRON SAN DIEGO CA COMLCSRON ONE ...SAFETY PROGRAMS ABOARD THE SHIP ARE NON-EXISTENT... Holy fuck  |
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I'm just postin' this to see what dport and the other Navy guys say. R 071920Z MAY 12
FM COMNAVSURFPAC SAN DIEGO CA TO USS FREEDOM INFO COMPACFLT PEARL HARBOR HI COMNAVSURFPAC SAN DIEGO CA PRESINSURV VIRGINIA BEACH VA COMLCSRON SAN DIEGO CA COMLCSRON ONE ...SAFETY PROGRAMS ABOARD THE SHIP ARE NON-EXISTENT... Holy fuck Imagine the safety standdown on that one being addressed |
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Wow, I was a Dirt Sailor so I'm not familiar with all the readiness inspections the Fleet does so I'm not sure how much of a shit storm results from failing a TMI (especially that bad) but that list sure doesn't look good.
Standing by to hear what the SMEs have to say. |
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A modernized Gearing in good material condition would probably be more useful and capable than the LCS. |
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Quoted: A modernized Gearing in good material condition would probably be more useful and capable than the LCS. More useful than a 57mm gun, a few MGs, some RAMs and a really rusty hull?  Not possible, says I! |
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Quoted: Quoted: A modernized Gearing in good material condition would probably be more useful and capable than the LCS. More useful than a 57mm gun, a few MGs, some RAMs and a really rusty hull? Not possible, says I! Don't forget the helicopter. It's got a really nice helicopter.  |
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Quoted: Trust me, the Coasties do not want that hunk of junk, they would rather have more Legend-class cutters.Quoted: I love those turrets! Can we offload the LCS class frigates onto the USCG in order to help resolve their shipbuilding woes? Actually, that's not the worst suggestion. Two helos and light armament would work out well, along with the LCS's speed. |
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Bring 'em back! http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/images/dd-699-h96835k.jpg A modernized Gearing in good material condition would probably be more useful and capable than the LCS. Or just buy an Absalon-class frigate from those Dutch guys. |
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Quoted: Quoted: A modernized Gearing in good material condition would probably be more useful and capable than the LCS. Or just buy an Absalon-class frigate from those Dutch guys. Those Danish ships are really nice. I think dport mentioned the builder went out of business, though. The sad thing is that those ships costs considerably less than a LCS of either design. |
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Bring back the Kidd class!!!!! http://www.hullnumber.com/p_photos/DDG-993.image.1015162.jpg This picture is one of 3 that were taking during an UNREP while evacuating Norfolk due to a hurricane; each picture is 3 seconds apart - this is the one in the middle. The originals are hanging on my living room wall. It's too late - we've sold them to the Taiwanese already. I went through the engineering school up in Newport with some of their prospective officers, good guys all around. ETA - This looks something like a "pre- INSURV" inspection by the ISIC. Definitely not good, but not out of the ordinary either (INSURVs get a lot of people fired). Some of the pre-inspections can be worse than the real thing. Shit only rolls downhill, so the last thing the ISIC wants is for them to give a thumbs up to LCS1 and then have them fail INSURV pathetically. I think the Navy has created these problems by trying to under-man the ships so badly. |
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Quoted: Quoted: A modernized Gearing in good material condition would probably be more useful and capable than the LCS. Or just buy an Absalon-class frigate from those Dutch guys. Peddling Euro-crap are we doc? The US should just buy Turkish made frigates  dport please don't rape me
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That was my first thought. You have a ship which is the same size and more complicated than a FFG-7, with a crew that's less than 1/4 the size (including the mission packages which aren't done yet).
By the time they're done standing watch and routing/sending message traffic, there's probably no time left to do PMS or fix things. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A modernized Gearing in good material condition would probably be more useful and capable than the LCS. Or just buy an Absalon-class frigate from those Dutch guys. Peddling Euro-crap are we doc? The US should just buy Turkish made frigates dport please don't rape me what Turkish-made frigates? You're buying them from Germany and the U.S. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A modernized Gearing in good material condition would probably be more useful and capable than the LCS. Or just buy an Absalon-class frigate from those Dutch guys. Peddling Euro-crap are we doc? The US should just buy Turkish made frigates dport please don't rape me what Turkish-made frigates? You're buying them from Germany and the U.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgem |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A modernized Gearing in good material condition would probably be more useful and capable than the LCS. Or just buy an Absalon-class frigate from those Dutch guys. Peddling Euro-crap are we doc? The US should just buy Turkish made frigates dport please don't rape me what Turkish-made frigates? You're buying them from Germany and the U.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgem That's a corvette, not a frigate. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A modernized Gearing in good material condition would probably be more useful and capable than the LCS. Or just buy an Absalon-class frigate from those Dutch guys. Peddling Euro-crap are we doc? The US should just buy Turkish made frigates dport please don't rape me what Turkish-made frigates? You're buying them from Germany and the U.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgem That's a corvette, not a frigate. Read the page. |
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That was my first thought. You have a ship which is the same size and more complicated than a FFG-7, with a crew that's less than 1/4 the size (including the mission packages which aren't done yet). By the time they're done standing watch and routing/sending message traffic, there's probably no time left to do PMS or fix things. Exactly. Watchstanding, divisional PMS, preservation work, special evolutions, training, DCPO work, etc. There is too much work to be done on a ship to expect such a small crew to stay on top of, and the ship has only been in the water for a few years now, wait until it's broken in and really needs some manpower to keep it squared away. |
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Bring 'em back! http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/images/dd-699-h96835k.jpg A modernized Gearing in good material condition would probably be more useful and capable than the LCS. That's what I have been thinking all along. No need to reinvent the wheel here, or actually the ship. Gearings were good ships that served a long time, FRAM 1 & 2 helped a bunch. If we used the old plans from the late 40's updating a few things, like electrinocs, some weapon upgrades, these things could be built a whole lot cheaper and be much more effective. Next bring back the PT boats with a few modern touches, these would be excellent anti pirate patrol boats. |
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Bring 'em back! http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/images/dd-699-h96835k.jpg You're too small and two letters away from the class of ships we should bring back... 
BB-63 
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A modernized Gearing in good material condition would probably be more useful and capable than the LCS. Or just buy an Absalon-class frigate from those Dutch guys. Peddling Euro-crap are we doc? The US should just buy Turkish made frigates dport please don't rape me what Turkish-made frigates? You're buying them from Germany and the U.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgem That's a corvette, not a frigate. Read the page. I did and I didn't see where they had laid down any frigates, much less launched or completed any. Corvettes, on the other hand... |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A modernized Gearing in good material condition would probably be more useful and capable than the LCS. Or just buy an Absalon-class frigate from those Dutch guys. Peddling Euro-crap are we doc? The US should just buy Turkish made frigates dport please don't rape me what Turkish-made frigates? You're buying them from Germany and the U.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgem That's a corvette, not a frigate. Read the page. I did and I didn't see where they had laid down any frigates, much less launched or completed any. Corvettes, on the other hand... Yup, development supposedly completed on the frigate "version" but none laid down yet. Contract is also done too. 3billion $ for 4 boats. |
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Would the LCS work for Somali pirate duty? Yes, as would a WW2 Corvette Escort. http://ww2db.com/images/ship_milfoil2.jpg |
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Quoted: Quoted: A modernized Gearing in good material condition would probably be more useful and capable than the LCS. That's what I have been thinking all along. No need to reinvent the wheel here, or actually the ship. Gearings were good ships that served a long time, FRAM 1 & 2 helped a bunch. If we used the old plans from the late 40's updating a few things, like electrinocs, some weapon upgrades, these things could be built a whole lot cheaper and be much more effective. Next bring back the PT boats with a few modern touches, these would be excellent anti pirate patrol boats. I think the biggest issue is that they are too small to accomodate any significant VLS installations, among other things. It is interesting to see some of the modernizations, though, like the last batch of ROCN Gearings. They loaded those things with box launchers for Standard SAMs and also for their indigenous Harpoon-like SSMs (Hsiung Feng II), plus the 12.75" torpedo tubes, a CIWS gun, a 3" gun, a couple of 40mm AA guns, an octuple launcher for ASROC, and also a light ASW helo. They stuffed those things full of weapons. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A modernized Gearing in good material condition would probably be more useful and capable than the LCS. Or just buy an Absalon-class frigate from those Dutch guys. Peddling Euro-crap are we doc? The US should just buy Turkish made frigates dport please don't rape me what Turkish-made frigates? You're buying them from Germany and the U.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgem That's a corvette, not a frigate. Read the page. I did and I didn't see where they had laid down any frigates, much less launched or completed any. Corvettes, on the other hand... Yup, development supposedly completed on the frigate "version" but none laid down yet. Contract is also done too. 3billion $ for 4 boats. I'm pretty sure the Danish ships cost less than that. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: A modernized Gearing in good material condition would probably be more useful and capable than the LCS. Or just buy an Absalon-class frigate from those Dutch guys. Peddling Euro-crap are we doc? The US should just buy Turkish made frigates dport please don't rape me what Turkish-made frigates? You're buying them from Germany and the U.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgem That's a corvette, not a frigate. Read the page. I did and I didn't see where they had laid down any frigates, much less launched or completed any. Corvettes, on the other hand... Yup, development supposedly completed on the frigate "version" but none laid down yet. Contract is also done too. 3billion $ for 4 boats. I'm pretty sure the Danish ships cost less than that. But what about copious amounts of bribes |
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Bring 'em back! http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/images/dd-699-h96835k.jpg A modernized Gearing in good material condition would probably be more useful and capable than the LCS. Or just buy an Absalon-class frigate from those Dutch guys. Peddling Euro-crap are we doc? The US should just buy Turkish made frigates dport please don't rape me what Turkish-made frigates? You're buying them from Germany and the U.S. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgem That think looks a lot like LCS-1. |
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Some of you guys have already hit on it. The main issue when it comes to ships is ownership. Between multiple crews, LCSRON duties, contractors who are to maintain the ship, minimal manning, etc. there appears to be little in the way of ownership. I hate most multiple crewing ideas because they don't account for taking ownership of the vessel.
Take the safety programs. This is a simple thing to do. It is hard when you have 40 people trying to operate and maintain a ship the size of a frigate. They have to "load shed" some items onto other organizations to be successful. One of the first things to go off ship are admin programs. Guess where safety programs fit in? If you said admin programs, you're right, but you're also wrong. Safety programs have to be maintained on the ship to be effective. So who owns the safety programs? The crew that doesn't have the time to administrate them or the LCSRON that can't possibly administrate the program and be effective? Ownership. 
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Bring back the Kidd class!!!!! http://www.hullnumber.com/p_photos/DDG-993.image.1015162.jpg This picture is one of 3 that were taking during an UNREP while evacuating Norfolk due to a hurricane; each picture is 3 seconds apart - this is the one in the middle. The originals are hanging on my living room wall. Can't. They're in Taiwan. |
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Bring 'em back! http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ship/images/dd-699-h96835k.jpg I love those turrets! Can we offload the LCS class frigates onto the USCG in order to help resolve their shipbuilding woes? Actually, that's not the worst suggestion. Two helos and light armament would work out well, along with the LCS's speed. Thanks. My comment is mostly in jest, as we would combine two deficiencies. I do agree that the hull form for LCS-1 class could be well utilized for USCG cutters. USCG wants endurance with their cutters. LCS doesn't have the endurance they want. |
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Someone is about to get fired. It could be the COs of the crews. It could be the LCSRON commander. Who it definitely will be is whoever let an Aviation Leak reporter on the ship without authorization and whoever (probably the same person) leaked this report.
Someone is not happy and is leaking things to undermine the program. We can debate if that is a good thing or not. |