[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Mods PLEASE LOCK. (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 4/29/2009 9:45:05 AM EDT
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I have a local, free paper available in my store. I don't usually pay much attention to what is in it, but to day I decided to read it and came across a column by Ted Rall. Apparently he is a regular feature in the paper. After reading his column I have decided to call the paper and tell them I will no longer offer it in my store. This is the column. I suppose I should take a bow. For eight long years (years that passed like centuries for the misÈrables rotting in cages at Guant·namo and Bagram and Abu Ghraib and Diego Garcia and Bulgaria and the U.S. Navy's fleet of prison ships) no one cared about torture. Law professors, politicians, and journalists justified it. Even liberals didn't care: there wasn't one major protest march against beating or raping or drowning people to death. Strange but true: the only forces raging against the collective madness that warped the American psyche after 9/11 were human rights organizations and a couple of cartoonists. The syndicated political cartoonist Matt Bors and I took point, repeatedly ridiculing and ranting about the Bush Administration's torture policies and Americans' tacit tolerance of it in cartoons we knew would be reprinted in only a handful of publications. Editors and readers advised us to "stop obsessing" and "move on." Award committees passed us over in favor of cartoonists who bought Bush's tall tales about WMDs in Iraq. We were blackballed. At least they didn't shove a flashlight up my ass. That is a favorite interrogation tactic at Gitmo (and Bagram, where Obama plans to send the Gitmo victims next). Perhaps the declassification of CIA documents revealing that the CIA waterboarded one man 183 times (why not 182? Why not 184?) prompted Americans' newfound distaste for taxpayer-funded dungeons. Maybe it was the juvenile stupidity displayed by Bush's legal eagles: "As we understand it, you plan to inform Zubaydah that you are going to place a stinging insect into the box, but you will actually place a harmless insect in the box, such as a caterpillar," one memo said. Because, you know, they don't have caterpillars in the Northwestern Frontier Province. Whatever the cause, better late than never (though not for the dozens of fathers, brothers and sons murdered in American torture chambers), but things have come full circle. Americans are against torture again. Some Congressmen are calling for investigations into Bush's war crimes. President Obama, forced to backpedal on his infamous inclination to "move forward" rather than compel the CIA's goons to "look over their shoulders" while applying electrodes to the genitals of 14-year-old Afghan boys, seems amenable to throwing the Dirty Half Dozen––the six Bushie lawyers including John Yoo, Jay Bybee and Alberto Gonzales––to the tender mercies of a special prosecutor. My favorite aspect of the discussion involves whether or not torture works. "High value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the Al Qaeda organization that was attacking this country," Obama's national intelligence director argued last week. Key suspects "provided much valuable information under less severe treatment, and the harsher handling produced no breakthroughs," countered The New York Times about the newly released documents. I don't care if torture works. I don't give a damn if torture could reveal a plot that would cost millions of lives. I would rather die in a terrorist attack than live in a society that relies upon torture to protect itself. But what do I know? Maybe I've just been brainwashed by my Christian upbringing. As I wrote two weeks ago, the Dirty Half Dozen lawyers ought to be prosecuted for constructing an illegal CYA framework to justify heinous acts by government torturers. An attorney who perverts logic and the law as follows is far too dangerous to be allowed to walk among free men: "Although we do not equate a person who voluntarily enters a weight-loss program with a detainee subjected to dietary manipulation as an interrogation technique, we believe that it is relevant that several commercial weight-loss programs available in the United States involve similar or even greater reductions in caloric intake." An officer of the court who doesn't pack up his office supplies and type up a resignation letter rather than write the following suffers from both psychosis and stupidity: "Although the abdominal slap technique might involve some minor physical pain, it cannot, as you have described it to us, be said to involve even moderate, let alone severe, physical pain or suffering." Do a Google Image search on John Yoo, author of many of the Torture Memos: the pudgy little pig would break down in tears if he ran out of hand lotion. Jail the lawyers, preferably for life. But don't forget their bosses. As has been amply documented, Bush, Cheney, Rice, Powell, Rumsfeld and others personally signed off on specific acts of torture. They ordered the Dirty Half Dozen to draft those memos to provide them with legal cover. Lawyers don't write law; they interpret it. If a corporate executive relies on bad legal advice, he goes to jail. Hiring a crappy lawyer isn't a defense. Bush and his war council should spend the rest of their lives at Guantanamo. Since he's continuing Bush's detention policies, so should Obama. And let's not forget the CIA and military torturers, the so-called little fish. As servicemen learn during training, it is illegal to follow an illegal order. An order to torture or abuse prisoners of war violates U.S. law and international treaty obligations, as well as international law. When given such an order, it is every person's moral and legal obligation to refuse it, even if means facing a court-martial. Everyone involved with torture deserves prosecution, including the physicians and psychologists who sat in on sessions that involved "harsh interrogation techniques." At the Nuremberg trials that followed World War II, hatemongers like the Jew-baiting newspaper publisher Julius Streicher were prosecuted for promoting racist Nazi ideology. Surely an analogy can be found for right-wing torture fans like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh, who repeatedly fanned the anti-Muslim hatred that led to our current shame. Even Bill Maher, libertarian-cum-liberal post-ABC firing, was pro-torture after 9/11. In the end, of course, we are all to blame. It was the American people's moral obligation to rise up as one against a government that carried out torture in our name. Yet we didn't lift a finger. If only there was a prison big enough to hold all of us. And a link to the rest of his columns. http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Archive?author=oid%3A25000 What say you Arfcom, should I call the paper and tell them to stop delivery or am I over-reacting and not supporting free speech?  |
| Let them know that you absolutely, positively, without doubt defend this individual's right to write his opinion, and that you support their decision to publish those opinions. Then point out that you, too, are going to offer an opinion, freely, and in accordance with your own rights, by no longer offering that paper at your store. |
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Good shoot OP.
As discussed, free speech is theirs as best they can use it. You certainly don't have to be their conduit, soapbox or megaphone. I have never been err, terribly impressed, uh, by any free paper I've seen. Thus, albeit anecdotally, I doubt this is the first or last time they'll run something similar. |
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This kind of rubbish makes me wonder why I don't have a job as a writer. At least I take my head out of my ass long enough to check the weather. While I respect his rights to say anything he wants, he should at the very least offer up a solution that he sees fit for the situation and/or take a good hard look at his sin-free lifestyle. Bummer he gets paid. |
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Quoted: while this guy may be a jerk, (I am not a avid reader of his work) It seems that most posters are in support of torture? Do i have that right? Or do you think that the types of interrogation we use is not considered torture? Please show me one post that supports torture in this thread or get the fuck out and quit trolling my thread. |
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while this guy may be a jerk, (I am not a avid reader of his work) It seems that most posters are in support of torture? Do i have that right? Or do you think that the types of interrogation we use is not considered torture? Fail We are in favor of Rall being the douche he is, and starving to death because of it. The rest of your inference is total troll. |
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while this guy may be a jerk, (I am not a avid reader of his work) It seems that most posters are in support of torture? Do i have that right? Or do you think that the types of interrogation we use is not considered torture? "there wasn't one major protest march against beating or raping or drowning people to death" Please cite an example of this happening, ever. |
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while this guy may be a jerk, (I am not a avid reader of his work) It seems that most posters are in support of torture? Do i have that right? Or do you think that the types of interrogation we use is not considered torture? Please show me one post that supports torture in this thread or get the fuck out and quit trolling my thread. well thats why i asked....and the article i read is basically condemning torture and all those who participated...and you ask if you should not carry the paper any longer....Others post info about the author being a jerk.... Logic tells me you must disagree with this article.... Then my question is do you support torture or just think that there was no torture and this author is in idiot for suggesting it is...... |
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while this guy may be a jerk, (I am not a avid reader of his work) It seems that most posters are in support of torture? Do i have that right? Or do you think that the types of interrogation we use is not considered torture? Fail We are in favor of Rall being the douche he is, and starving to death because of it. The rest of your inference is total troll. OP asks the question i ask a follow up for some debate you no likey and call me a troll.....Try debate and conversation, instead of tagging people trolls.... WTF is a troll anyhow? Some one who asked a question... Small minded responses are the only Fail i see |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: while this guy may be a jerk, (I am not a avid reader of his work) It seems that most posters are in support of torture? Do i have that right? Or do you think that the types of interrogation we use is not considered torture? Please show me one post that supports torture in this thread or get the fuck out and quit trolling my thread. well thats why i asked....and the article i read is basically condemning torture and all those who participated...and you ask if you should not carry the paper any longer....Others post info about the author being a jerk.... Logic tells me you must disagree with this article.... Then my question is do you support torture or just think that there was no torture and this author is in idiot for suggesting it is...... If we are talking about waterboarding then no, I don't think it is torture. I'm suggesting that this author is making claims that are not backed up by facts to support his argument. I'm also suggesting that he is a complete douche. Any other questions?? How about you, do you agree with this author?? |
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while this guy may be a jerk, (I am not a avid reader of his work) It seems that most posters are in support of torture? Do i have that right? Or do you think that the types of interrogation we use is not considered torture? "there wasn't one major protest march against beating or raping or drowning people to death" Please cite an example of this happening, ever. ............ Thought so. |
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while this guy may be a jerk, (I am not a avid reader of his work) It seems that most posters are in support of torture? Do i have that right? Or do you think that the types of interrogation we use is not considered torture? Please show me one post that supports torture in this thread or get the fuck out and quit trolling my thread. well thats why i asked....and the article i read is basically condemning torture and all those who participated...and you ask if you should not carry the paper any longer....Others post info about the author being a jerk.... Logic tells me you must disagree with this article.... Then my question is do you support torture or just think that there was no torture and this author is in idiot for suggesting it is...... If we are talking about waterboarding then no, I don't think it is torture. I'm suggesting that this author is making claims that are not backed up by facts to support his argument. I'm also suggesting that he is a complete douche. Any other questions?? How about you, do you agree with this author?? I cannot say I agree with the author. But I have to agree with the law. If we put japs to death for water boarding during WWII then i think we ought to abide by it or change the law. |
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while this guy may be a jerk, (I am not a avid reader of his work) It seems that most posters are in support of torture? Do i have that right? Or do you think that the types of interrogation we use is not considered torture? "there wasn't one major protest march against beating or raping or drowning people to death" Please cite an example of this happening, ever. ............ Thought so. Who are you talking to? Are you waiting for the author to cite an example of a protest march? |
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while this guy may be a jerk, (I am not a avid reader of his work) It seems that most posters are in support of torture? Do i have that right? Or do you think that the types of interrogation we use is not considered torture? Please show me one post that supports torture in this thread or get the fuck out and quit trolling my thread. well thats why i asked....and the article i read is basically condemning torture and all those who participated...and you ask if you should not carry the paper any longer....Others post info about the author being a jerk.... Logic tells me you must disagree with this article.... Then my question is do you support torture or just think that there was no torture and this author is in idiot for suggesting it is...... If we are talking about waterboarding then no, I don't think it is torture. I'm suggesting that this author is making claims that are not backed up by facts to support his argument. I'm also suggesting that he is a complete douche. Any other questions?? How about you, do you agree with this author?? I cannot say I agree with the author. But I have to agree with the law. If we put japs to death for water boarding during WWII then i think we ought to abide by it or change the law. Water boarding in and of itself where death did not result did not result in executions of Japanese after WWII as far as I know. |
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I don't understand why anyone would care about torturing terrorists. They're terrorists for crying out loud. Do whatever it takes to get what you need from them and then throw away the husk. Why would torturing a terrorist bother anybody? Your logic does us no good. Now off to the gulags you go. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: while this guy may be a jerk, (I am not a avid reader of his work) It seems that most posters are in support of torture? Do i have that right? Or do you think that the types of interrogation we use is not considered torture? Please show me one post that supports torture in this thread or get the fuck out and quit trolling my thread. well thats why i asked....and the article i read is basically condemning torture and all those who participated...and you ask if you should not carry the paper any longer....Others post info about the author being a jerk.... Logic tells me you must disagree with this article.... Then my question is do you support torture or just think that there was no torture and this author is in idiot for suggesting it is...... If we are talking about waterboarding then no, I don't think it is torture. I'm suggesting that this author is making claims that are not backed up by facts to support his argument. I'm also suggesting that he is a complete douche. Any other questions?? How about you, do you agree with this author?? I cannot say I agree with the author. But I have to agree with the law. If we put japs to death for water boarding during WWII then i think we ought to abide by it or change the law. First, only seven Japanese were ever executed in military tribunals after the war. Second, I don't see waterboarding in this photo: 
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while this guy may be a jerk, (I am not a avid reader of his work) It seems that most posters are in support of torture? Do i have that right? Or do you think that the types of interrogation we use is not considered torture? Please show me one post that supports torture in this thread or get the fuck out and quit trolling my thread. well thats why i asked....and the article i read is basically condemning torture and all those who participated...and you ask if you should not carry the paper any longer....Others post info about the author being a jerk.... Logic tells me you must disagree with this article.... Then my question is do you support torture or just think that there was no torture and this author is in idiot for suggesting it is...... If we are talking about waterboarding then no, I don't think it is torture. I'm suggesting that this author is making claims that are not backed up by facts to support his argument. I'm also suggesting that he is a complete douche. Any other questions?? How about you, do you agree with this author?? I cannot say I agree with the author. But I have to agree with the law. If we put japs to death for water boarding during WWII then i think we ought to abide by it or change the law. First, only seven Japanese were ever executed in military tribunals after the war. Second, I don't see waterboarding in this photo: http://b-29s-over-korea.com/Japanese_Kamikaze/images/POW-BEHEADING.jpg good call...if it was not in that photo it must be in my mind that or the documents presented at the Nuremberg trials, and the American GI's who testified that they were water boarded... |
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Ted Rall quote: Bush 'Viciously Murdered' U.S. Soldiers; Death of 'Idiot' Soldiers Raises U.S. IQ Right because nobody as smart and sophisticated as him goes into the military, generals come from harvard, all our presidents who served were retarded, thats why we voted for them... No one joins because of patriotism, but because it an easy job, a little easier than working at McDonalds.... WHAT THE FUCK! OVER! 
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: while this guy may be a jerk, (I am not a avid reader of his work) It seems that most posters are in support of torture? Do i have that right? Or do you think that the types of interrogation we use is not considered torture? Please show me one post that supports torture in this thread or get the fuck out and quit trolling my thread. well thats why i asked....and the article i read is basically condemning torture and all those who participated...and you ask if you should not carry the paper any longer....Others post info about the author being a jerk.... Logic tells me you must disagree with this article.... Then my question is do you support torture or just think that there was no torture and this author is in idiot for suggesting it is...... If we are talking about waterboarding then no, I don't think it is torture. I'm suggesting that this author is making claims that are not backed up by facts to support his argument. I'm also suggesting that he is a complete douche. Any other questions?? How about you, do you agree with this author?? I cannot say I agree with the author. But I have to agree with the law. If we put japs to death for water boarding during WWII then i think we ought to abide by it or change the law. First, only seven Japanese were ever executed in military tribunals after the war. Second, I don't see waterboarding in this photo: http://b-29s-over-korea.com/Japanese_Kamikaze/images/POW-BEHEADING.jpg good call...if it was not in that photo it must be in my mind that or the documents presented at the Nuremberg trials, and the American GI's who testified that they were water boarded... I don't recall any Japanese being tried at Nuremburg. IIRC they were tried in a court in Manila overseen by MacArthur. |
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FAIL! The title said more troll, i only see Avit.  Seriously can i get a little bit more troll....i mean the OP was so quick to condemn me as a troll which is fine by me, but Is there anyone else out here who thinks that the government should follow its own laws? I mean if they don't like them then change them..... |
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You are absolutely correct in banning the paper from your store. Accountability has to start somewhere. I might be the only one that actually reads those free papers, but I have read through them in about 35 states, and without fail, every single one of them was chock full of liberal propaganda.
That author sounds like a first class idiot. |
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while this guy may be a jerk, (I am not a avid reader of his work) It seems that most posters are in support of torture? Do i have that right? Or do you think that the types of interrogation we use is not considered torture? Please show me one post that supports torture in this thread or get the fuck out and quit trolling my thread. well thats why i asked....and the article i read is basically condemning torture and all those who participated...and you ask if you should not carry the paper any longer....Others post info about the author being a jerk.... Logic tells me you must disagree with this article.... Then my question is do you support torture or just think that there was no torture and this author is in idiot for suggesting it is...... If we are talking about waterboarding then no, I don't think it is torture. I'm suggesting that this author is making claims that are not backed up by facts to support his argument. I'm also suggesting that he is a complete douche. Any other questions?? How about you, do you agree with this author?? I cannot say I agree with the author. But I have to agree with the law. If we put japs to death for water boarding during WWII then i think we ought to abide by it or change the law. First, only seven Japanese were ever executed in military tribunals after the war. Second, I don't see waterboarding in this photo: http://b-29s-over-korea.com/Japanese_Kamikaze/images/POW-BEHEADING.jpg good call...if it was not in that photo it must be in my mind that or the documents presented at the Nuremberg trials, and the American GI's who testified that they were water boarded... I don't recall any Japanese being tried at Nuremburg. IIRC they were tried in a court in Manila overseen by MacArthur. I stand corrected.... |
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FAIL! The title said more troll, i only see Avit. Seriously can i get a little bit more troll....i mean the OP was so quick to condemn me as a troll which is fine by me, but Is there anyone else out here who thinks that the government should follow its own laws? I mean if they don't like them then change them..... Not trying to fight with you buddy, but I think you ended the thread right there. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: while this guy may be a jerk, (I am not a avid reader of his work) It seems that most posters are in support of torture? Do i have that right? Or do you think that the types of interrogation we use is not considered torture? Fail We are in favor of Rall being the douche he is, and starving to death because of it. The rest of your inference is total troll. OP asks the question i ask a follow up for some debate you no likey and call me a troll.....Try debate and conversation, instead of tagging people trolls.... WTF is a troll anyhow? Some one who asked a question... Small minded responses are the only Fail i see Hell, I'm not afraid to say it. I support torture!! What we were doing was NOT TORTURE period!! I do support what we were doing, and then some more. Way more drastic measures. If we can save the country from another 911, I say Go For IT!! I love how the LIBERALS frame things. They want to ban guns, if it saves the life of one person. So they would take away the rights of countless millions of Americans to save ONE life. Yet these same LIBERALS, won't allow torture ( even if it's really NOT torture) to save the lives of thousands, if not more American lives. If it makes some terrorist uncomfortable. Sure that makes sense to me. Well I want America and Americans safe. If it takes the life of some terrorist to make that happen So Be It. Make no mistake, these people ( terrorists )want no less than the destruction of our country, and it's citizens dead. I would hold NO QUARTER for them.  Call me what you like I don't care. My opinion. 
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FAIL! The title said more troll, i only see Avit. Seriously can i get a little bit more troll....i mean the OP was so quick to condemn me as a troll which is fine by me, but Is there anyone else out here who thinks that the government should follow its own laws? I mean if they don't like them then change them..... I know what you're saying. But one thing you have to understand about there, if someone disagrees about something, then that situation or topic is wrong. For example, you need to have the only mechanic in town, whom happens to be a liberal, work on your car. You, being an ultraconservative, will dispute anything he tells you, despite irrefutable proof. I applaud the gov for getting these bastards to talk, but you're either obeying laws or you are not. |
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I will say it too. I support torture of Muslim Extremists if it helps prevent another major terrorist attack on American or British soil. i support torture, REAL torture (not locking people in a room with a caterpillar), of ANYONE who would saw my head off with an old sword because their religion doesn't like me. |
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Hell, I'm not afraid to say it. I support torture!! What we were doing was NOT TORTURE period!! I do support what we were doing, and then some more. Way more drastic measures. If we can save the country from another 911, I say Go For IT!! I love how the LIBERALS frame things. They want to ban guns, if it saves the life of one person. So they would take away the rights of countless millions of Americans to save ONE life. Yet these same LIBERALS, won't allow torture ( even if it's really NOT torture) to save the lives of thousands, if not more American lives. If it makes some terrorist uncomfortable. Sure that makes sense to me. Well I want America and Americans safe. If it takes the life of some terrorist to make that happen So Be It. Make no mistake, these people ( terrorists )want no less than the destruction of our country, and it's citizens dead. I would hold NO QUARTER for them.
Call me what you like I don't care. My opinion. True. my only issue with that approach is when does it apply to us serfs? To my way of thinking, giving the green light to something only paves the way for it to be applied to you. I like the appeal process and the years it takes because if it applied to me, I'd want it. |
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while this guy may be a jerk, (I am not a avid reader of his work) It seems that most posters are in support of torture? Do i have that right? Or do you think that the types of interrogation we use is not considered torture? Please show me one post that supports torture in this thread or get the fuck out and quit trolling my thread. well thats why i asked....and the article i read is basically condemning torture and all those who participated...and you ask if you should not carry the paper any longer....Others post info about the author being a jerk.... Logic tells me you must disagree with this article.... Then my question is do you support torture or just think that there was no torture and this author is in idiot for suggesting it is...... If we are talking about waterboarding then no, I don't think it is torture. I'm suggesting that this author is making claims that are not backed up by facts to support his argument. I'm also suggesting that he is a complete douche. Any other questions?? How about you, do you agree with this author?? I cannot say I agree with the author. But I have to agree with the law. If we put japs to death for water boarding during WWII then i think we ought to abide by it or change the law. You fail at research. For one thing, stop listening to this debunked diatribe of the fucking liberals, and Sen. John McCain. Already been proven to be bullshit. The japanese that were executed for waterboarding were doing so with salt water, filling the prisoners stomach and lungs with said salt water, and then jumping on their abdomens, causing all sorts of fucked up pain and death. THAT is why they were executed. |
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while this guy may be a jerk, (I am not a avid reader of his work) It seems that most posters are in support of torture? Do i have that right? Or do you think that the types of interrogation we use is not considered torture? Fail We are in favor of Rall being the douche he is, and starving to death because of it. The rest of your inference is total troll. OP asks the question i ask a follow up for some debate you no likey and call me a troll.....Try debate and conversation, instead of tagging people trolls.... WTF is a troll anyhow? Some one who asked a question... Small minded responses are the only Fail i see Hell, I'm not afraid to say it. I support torture!! What we were doing was NOT TORTURE period!! I do support what we were doing, and then some more. Way more drastic measures. If we can save the country from another 911, I say Go For IT!! I love how the LIBERALS frame things. They want to ban guns, if it saves the life of one person. So they would take away the rights of countless millions of Americans to save ONE life. Yet these same LIBERALS, won't allow torture ( even if it's really NOT torture) to save the lives of thousands, if not more American lives. If it makes some terrorist uncomfortable. Sure that makes sense to me. Well I want America and Americans safe. If it takes the life of some terrorist to make that happen So Be It. Make no mistake, these people ( terrorists )want no less than the destruction of our country, and it's citizens dead. I would hold NO QUARTER for them.
Call me what you like I don't care. My opinion. I respect your opinion. I think this is not just a Liberal issue. IMO the media paints it as a left vs. right thing to further divide us. This issue to some is a moral one. Others it is strictly about security. For me it is about my Liberty. Often folks ask "why care about the terrorist"...well i care about all the detainees that were NEVER charged with a crime and held for years without charges being brought against them. If the Government can do it to them they can do it to me. While i have no love for terrorist, I do love this country and its system of laws that protects you and I from being locked up with no charges. I live in NY i saw first hand what these bastards did. I know too many people who were affected by 9/11....But what scares me is not planes falling from the sky or subway dirty bombs, what scares me is that we are trading our rights one by one until the terrorist have accomplished exactly want they hoped for...the destruction of out Country. |
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good call...if it was not in that photo it must be in my mind that or the documents presented at the Nuremberg trials, and the American GI's who testified that they were water boarded... Dude. This thread is not solely about torture. It's about what a snarky libtard Ted Rall is. Plus, both the Japanese and US had signed the Hague and various Geneva conventions before WWII, hence their conduct was deem particularly poor. The comparison from us fighting a Convention signatory power, and us fighting to violent, theocratic terror organization is null. They are not upholders of this bit of international law, and should not be protected from sleep deprevation, tickling, Britany Spears music, or waterboarding. None of the above are torture. |
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True. my only issue with that approach is when does it apply to us serfs? To my way of thinking, giving the green light to something only paves the way for it to be applied to you. I like the appeal process and the years it takes because if it applied to me, I'd want it. Never know, does one.  Well for one. I'm not, and I'm relatively sure you aren't a terrorist hell bent on killing scores of Americans. |
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I respect your opinion. I think this is not just a Liberal issue. IMO the media paints it as a left vs. right thing to further divide us. This issue to some is a moral one. Others it is strictly about security. For me it is about my Liberty. Often folks ask "why care about the terrorist"...well i care about all the detainees that were NEVER charged with a crime and held for years without charges being brought against them. If the Government can do it to them they can do it to me. While i have no love for terrorist, I do love this country and its system of laws that protects you and I from being locked up with no charges. I live in NY i saw first hand what these bastards did. I know too many people who were affected by 9/11....But what scares me is not planes falling from the sky or subway dirty bombs, what scares me is that we are trading our rights one by one until the terrorist have accomplished exactly want they hoped for...the destruction of out Country. |
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while this guy may be a jerk, (I am not a avid reader of his work) It seems that most posters are in support of torture? Do i have that right? Or do you think that the types of interrogation we use is not considered torture? Please show me one post that supports torture in this thread or get the fuck out and quit trolling my thread. well thats why i asked....and the article i read is basically condemning torture and all those who participated...and you ask if you should not carry the paper any longer....Others post info about the author being a jerk.... Logic tells me you must disagree with this article.... Then my question is do you support torture or just think that there was no torture and this author is in idiot for suggesting it is...... If we are talking about waterboarding then no, I don't think it is torture. I'm suggesting that this author is making claims that are not backed up by facts to support his argument. I'm also suggesting that he is a complete douche. Any other questions?? How about you, do you agree with this author?? I cannot say I agree with the author. But I have to agree with the law. If we put japs to death for water boarding during WWII then i think we ought to abide by it or change the law. First, only seven Japanese were ever executed in military tribunals after the war. Second, I don't see waterboarding in this photo: http://b-29s-over-korea.com/Japanese_Kamikaze/images/POW-BEHEADING.jpg good call...if it was not in that photo it must be in my mind that or the documents presented at the Nuremberg trials, and the American GI's who testified that they were water boarded... I do not recall water-boarding as something the Germans were in the habit of doing, they were fond of beat-the-crap-out-of-you, mind games, broken fingers. The Gestapo might have done it as a warm-up to torture, as they would move on to real implements of torture like thumb-screws, cutting off body parts, rape (for women) and other such TORTURE. If you wish to regard water-boarding as toture, then yes, I support toture. Nothing else will get the information out of these men. If Rall wishes to be among those killed by attacks that could have been prevented, why don't we just send him over to where they can get to him more easily? No? Big words from behind the safety created by torture. |
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while this guy may be a jerk, (I am not a avid reader of his work) It seems that most posters are in support of torture? Do i have that right? Or do you think that the types of interrogation we use is not considered torture? Please show me one post that supports torture in this thread or get the fuck out and quit trolling my thread. well thats why i asked....and the article i read is basically condemning torture and all those who participated...and you ask if you should not carry the paper any longer....Others post info about the author being a jerk.... Logic tells me you must disagree with this article.... Then my question is do you support torture or just think that there was no torture and this author is in idiot for suggesting it is...... If we are talking about waterboarding then no, I don't think it is torture. I'm suggesting that this author is making claims that are not backed up by facts to support his argument. I'm also suggesting that he is a complete douche. Any other questions?? How about you, do you agree with this author?? I cannot say I agree with the author. But I have to agree with the law. If we put japs to death for water boarding during WWII then i think we ought to abide by it or change the law. You fail at research. For one thing, stop listening to this debunked diatribe of the fucking liberals, and Sen. John McCain. Already been proven to be bullshit. The japanese that were executed for waterboarding were doing so with salt water, filling the prisoners stomach and lungs with said salt water, and then jumping on their abdomens, causing all sorts of fucked up pain and death. THAT is why they were executed. Well see, there's your problem. That equivocates identically with the current situation. Waterboarding, sleep deprivation, "belly slapping" (did anyone else do this to their little brother when they were kids? We used to call it red-belly..) and uncomfortable positions (all under medical supervision) is identical to filling someone's lungs with water, keeping them in cages outside, forced marches, beating with buttstocks, beheading and chem/bio experimentation on non-combatant civillians. If I had to guess, I'd bet a combatant taken to Gitmo has better living conditions in prison than he would at home-medical care, clean water and food, beds....yup. Torture. Anyone else notice that there are some folks who are more than happy to gamble ("I don't care if a million innocents die....) other peoples' lives? |
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You fail at research. For one thing, stop listening to this debunked diatribe of the fucking liberals, and Sen. John McCain. Already been proven to be bullshit. The japanese that were executed for waterboarding were doing so with salt water, filling the prisoners stomach and lungs with said salt water, and then jumping on their abdomens, causing all sorts of fucked up pain and death. THAT is why they were executed.[/quote] I am humbled by your research ability and all of these fine citations you provided to back up you points. Chase J. Nielsen, one of the U.S. airmen who flew in the Doolittle raid following the attack on Pearl Harbor, was subjected to waterboarding by his Japanese captors.[70] At their trial for war crimes following the war, he testified "Well, I was put on my back on the floor with my arms and legs stretched out, one guard holding each limb. The towel was wrapped around my face and put across my face and water poured on. They poured water on this towel until I was almost unconscious from strangulation, then they would let up until I'd get my breath, then they'd start over again… I felt more or less like I was drowning, just gasping between life and death." now tell me again about stomach pumping? |
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good call...if it was not in that photo it must be in my mind that or the documents presented at the Nuremberg trials, and the American GI's who testified that they were water boarded... Dude. This thread is not solely about torture. It's about what a snarky libtard Ted Rall is. Plus, both the Japanese and US had signed the Hague and various Geneva conventions before WWII, hence their conduct was deem particularly poor. The comparison from us fighting a Convention signatory power, and us fighting to violent, theocratic terror organization is null. They are not upholders of this bit of international law, and should not be protected from sleep deprevation, tickling, Britany Spears music, or waterboarding. None of the above are torture. i am making it about torture and the third Geneva Convention that was signed by the US disagrees.....with the exception of Brittany Spears..no convention was needed to agree that is torture. |
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Quoted: i am making it about torture Any particular reason you feel the need to focus on torture? I was hoping that we could just have some good ol' fashion fun picking apart this Ted Rall character. Don't get me wrong, I don't care, its not my thread, but I sure had my hopes up. |