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Posted: 4/22/2016 9:26:28 PM EDT
As far as I know, the DeLisle is one of the quietest firearms around, particularly if you're only looking at calibers apart from .22LR.  85 decibels is the figure that I see thrown around - I have no way to truly confirm this, but in the Military Arms Channel video on it, the report of firing was quieter than the impact of the bullet on the steel target down range, and around as loud as the action being cycled.

So a couple of questions and an idea.  Question one: are there any suppressed guns that are quieter?

And question two: has anyone made a modernized version, updating the ergonomics(as much as one can on a bolt rifle, at least), materials, suppressor design and magazine?  Because I rather like the idea of a synthetic-stocked (possibly even with an AR-style tube and grip) DeLisle with a rail to mount a RDS and a magwell that takes something like Glock 21 magazines, or perhaps Uzi or Thompson mags.  I'm sure there are those who think that sounds awful, but if you saw someone at the range with one you'd be itching to give it a try.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 9:30:55 PM EDT
A guy at the club I am a member of let me shoot a suppressed ruger lever action .44 mag. The suppressor was built into/part of the barrel, it just looked like a really thick bull barrel. I was shooting his reloads, it was quiet, I pulled my earplugs out and it was about like shooting a pellet gun.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 9:33:28 PM EDT
Integral ruger 77/357
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 9:37:07 PM EDT
There was a company making a Delisle, Valkyrie? Faithful repro, tho...not modernized.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 9:39:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 9:40:25 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By swingset:
There was a company making a Delisle, Valkyrie? Faithful repro, tho...not modernized.
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Rolled out at the 2004 SHOT Show.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 9:41:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Doucheatron3000:





And question two: has anyone made a modernized version, updating the ergonomics(as much as one can on a bolt rifle, at least), materials, suppressor design and magazine?  Because I rather like the idea of a synthetic-stocked (possibly even with an AR-style tube and grip) DeLisle with a rail to mount a RDS and a magwell that takes something like Glock 21 magazines, or perhaps Uzi or Thompson mags.  I'm sure there are those who think that sounds awful, but if you saw someone at the range with one you'd be itching to give it a try.
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No, but a working replica is produced

 



Link Posted: 4/22/2016 9:42:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By raven:
No, but a working replica is produced  

http://www.valkyriearms.com/delisle.html

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Originally Posted By raven:
Originally Posted By Doucheatron3000:


And question two: has anyone made a modernized version, updating the ergonomics(as much as one can on a bolt rifle, at least), materials, suppressor design and magazine?  Because I rather like the idea of a synthetic-stocked (possibly even with an AR-style tube and grip) DeLisle with a rail to mount a RDS and a magwell that takes something like Glock 21 magazines, or perhaps Uzi or Thompson mags.  I'm sure there are those who think that sounds awful, but if you saw someone at the range with one you'd be itching to give it a try.
No, but a working replica is produced  

http://www.valkyriearms.com/delisle.html



Damn thats cool as hell.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 9:44:02 PM EDT
I submitted a Form 1 last week for building my take on a "modernized" DeLisle.  It will be a quick detach barrel/suppressor take down rifle and will likely utilize a modern doublestack magazine.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 9:48:30 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Kuraki:
I submitted a Form 1 last week for building my take on a "modernized" DeLisle.  It will be a quick detach barrel/suppressor take down rifle and will likely utilize a modern doublestack magazine.
View Quote

That is quite interesting.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 9:49:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 9:53:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2016 9:57:06 PM EDT by lumper]
A Ruger 77/44 with subsonic loads is quiet.  As far as being quieter, I am not sure how practical "quieter" actually is when you get to those sound levels.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 9:56:34 PM EDT
I would actually like a modern DeLisle myself.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 9:58:59 PM EDT
The Delisle is an awesome specialty weapon.  Another is the real OSS suppressed M3 Grease Gun.  

Hits on a steel E-type silhouette give you "Bong!" reports louder than the bolt reciprocating back and forth.  Kinda like an air hammer.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 9:59:51 PM EDT
Here you go, the Delisle 2000:

Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:00:18 PM EDT
I think a modern DeLisle would be:

Bolt action
.300blk
Integrally suppressed
AR mag fed

More easily attainable would be a Mossberg MVP or Ruger Scout, re-barreled with a 6-10" .300blk and threaded for a suppressor.  

Either way you're quiet, compact and mimicking .45 ballistics.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:00:20 PM EDT
.300 blkout is pretty quiet, not heard it in person, but videos and many others have said the same.

no idea on db rating.  


Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:02:52 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Danner130:

That is quite interesting.
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Originally Posted By Danner130:
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
I submitted a Form 1 last week for building my take on a "modernized" DeLisle.  It will be a quick detach barrel/suppressor take down rifle and will likely utilize a modern doublestack magazine.

That is quite interesting.


I've always wanted to build one, but I never wanted to do a repro because I just cannot bring myself to care in the slightest about details that purists find compelling.

So really the only similarity between what I have planned and an acual DeLisle will be the following:
- Built on an Enfield action with a shortened bolt
- 45 ACP fed from a pistol magazine
- Integral eccentric suppressor
- "Combat" irons with protective wings (it'll likely have a small rail for a mini RDS)


I don't have any intent on doing any pistol grip/AR stock nonsense.  I quite like the ergonomics of an Enfield in a replacement plastic stock with a full grip.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:03:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2016 10:08:41 PM EDT by MoNkEyTurbo]
Heres my SIA 45 Silent Carbine.






And heres a video!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNzChFD9s7k
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:04:03 PM EDT
Love the quiet part.  How about a modern one that runs .45 acp and hits that 85 dB number.  Want
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:06:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Doucheatron3000:

And question two: has anyone made a modernized version, updating the ergonomics(as much as one can on a bolt rifle, at least), materials, suppressor design and magazine? Because I rather like the idea of a synthetic-stocked (possibly even with an AR-style tube and grip) DeLisle with a rail to mount a RDS and a magwell that takes something like Glock 21 magazines, or perhaps Uzi or Thompson mags.  I'm sure there are those who think that sounds awful, but if you saw someone at the range with one you'd be itching to give it a try.

View Quote



Yes, some years ago GG&G did exactly that.

It was called the Bulldog Terminator:

Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:07:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By somedude:
.300 blkout is pretty quiet, not heard it in person, but videos and many others have said the same.

no idea on db rating.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl0Vng0qMFo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_D9neCL2c8
View Quote


I've got one.  I've had it measured by proper equipment.  It will never be as quiet as a bolt gun due to the action noise.  Whether that matters at that level of suppression is in the eye of the beholder.  I'm still building a DeLisle because it will be quieter.  Secondly because 230 grain .45 bullets are designed to work at 980 fps where the vast majority of 220+ .30 cal bullets may as well be FMJ at subsonic speed.  But that's another can of worms.

Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:09:43 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By kozaki:



Yes, some years ago GG&G did exactly that.

It was called the Bulldog Terminator:

http://imgur.com/zByVneF.jpg
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Originally Posted By kozaki:
Originally Posted By Doucheatron3000:

And question two: has anyone made a modernized version, updating the ergonomics(as much as one can on a bolt rifle, at least), materials, suppressor design and magazine? Because I rather like the idea of a synthetic-stocked (possibly even with an AR-style tube and grip) DeLisle with a rail to mount a RDS and a magwell that takes something like Glock 21 magazines, or perhaps Uzi or Thompson mags.  I'm sure there are those who think that sounds awful, but if you saw someone at the range with one you'd be itching to give it a try.




Yes, some years ago GG&G did exactly that.

It was called the Bulldog Terminator:

http://imgur.com/zByVneF.jpg


That's getting really close to my concept.  Just give it a real grip stock like the SIA above, and have the barrel/suppressor come off with a 60 degree twist for takedown, add iron sights and some type of short forearm on the can to house the takedown locking pin.  Also, a purpose designed magwell.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:15:17 PM EDT
Special Interest Arms had some really neat rifles a long time ago. I had one of their Enfield conversion 7.62x39 carbines. It was a nice little rifle. It was stolen long ago. Probably never see it again.
Would love to own another one.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:16:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2016 10:17:33 PM EDT by kozaki]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Kuraki:


That's getting really close to my concept.  Just give it a real grip stock like the SIA above, and have the barrel/suppressor come off with a 60 degree twist for takedown, add iron sights and some type of short forearm on the can to house the takedown locking pin.  Also, a purpose designed magwell.

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Originally Posted By Kuraki:
Originally Posted By kozaki:
Originally Posted By Doucheatron3000:

And question two: has anyone made a modernized version, updating the ergonomics(as much as one can on a bolt rifle, at least), materials, suppressor design and magazine? Because I rather like the idea of a synthetic-stocked (possibly even with an AR-style tube and grip) DeLisle with a rail to mount a RDS and a magwell that takes something like Glock 21 magazines, or perhaps Uzi or Thompson mags.  I'm sure there are those who think that sounds awful, but if you saw someone at the range with one you'd be itching to give it a try.




Yes, some years ago GG&G did exactly that.

It was called the Bulldog Terminator:

http://imgur.com/zByVneF.jpg


That's getting really close to my concept.  Just give it a real grip stock like the SIA above, and have the barrel/suppressor come off with a 60 degree twist for takedown, add iron sights and some type of short forearm on the can to house the takedown locking pin.  Also, a purpose designed magwell.



The barrel on the GG&G gun is QD, with interrupted threads.  

There are various replacement stocks for the SMLE action that do not mimic the original profile, so that should not be a huge issue.  

Or, you could always just go Mauser action, which opens up a whole world of stocks and accessories, including the Rhineland .45 ACP conversion method and parts.

Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:19:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2016 10:20:46 PM EDT by Currahee]
I can't imagine it being quiet enough (compared to a 300bl AR or SD3) to warrant actually carrying another gun.  

Unless it's just a thought experiment.

The quietest gun I have ever shot with actual stopping power was a Thompson Contender shooting 41spc

Not this one, but same idea

Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:20:38 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By kozaki:

The barrel on the GG&G gun is QD, with interrupted threads
.  

There are various replacement stocks for the SMLE action that do not mimic the original profile, so that should not be a huge issue.  

Or, you could always just go Mauser action, which opens up a whole world of stocks and accessories, including the Rhineland .45 ACP conversion method and parts.

View Quote


Dammit  There are no new ideas I guess

I've already got an Enfield action stripped for this project.  Just trying to tie up some other projects before I get balls deep into this one.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:21:12 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Alien:
I would actually like a modern DeLisle myself.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
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Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:23:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:23:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2016 10:26:52 PM EDT by Doucheatron3000]
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Originally Posted By Kuraki:


I've always wanted to build one, but I never wanted to do a repro because I just cannot bring myself to care in the slightest about details that purists find compelling.

So really the only similarity between what I have planned and an acual DeLisle will be the following:
- Built on an Enfield action with a shortened bolt
- 45 ACP fed from a pistol magazine
- Integral eccentric suppressor
- "Combat" irons with protective wings (it'll likely have a small rail for a mini RDS)


I don't have any intent on doing any pistol grip/AR stock nonsense.  I quite like the ergonomics of an Enfield in a replacement plastic stock with a full grip.
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Originally Posted By Kuraki:
Originally Posted By Danner130:
Originally Posted By Kuraki:
I submitted a Form 1 last week for building my take on a "modernized" DeLisle.  It will be a quick detach barrel/suppressor take down rifle and will likely utilize a modern doublestack magazine.

That is quite interesting.


I've always wanted to build one, but I never wanted to do a repro because I just cannot bring myself to care in the slightest about details that purists find compelling.

So really the only similarity between what I have planned and an acual DeLisle will be the following:
- Built on an Enfield action with a shortened bolt
- 45 ACP fed from a pistol magazine
- Integral eccentric suppressor
- "Combat" irons with protective wings (it'll likely have a small rail for a mini RDS)


I don't have any intent on doing any pistol grip/AR stock nonsense.  I quite like the ergonomics of an Enfield in a replacement plastic stock with a full grip.


Now that's what I'm talking about.  The stock/grip is really the most dispensable part of my idea, mostly because while I can see the value of improved sights and higher capacity, I really have no way to know if the modern black rifle type of layout is sensible on a bolt gun.  (Short of actually shooting one, that is.  And I haven't exactly seen many in my neck of the woods.)  And your DeLisle, with its doublestack mag, hits the one thing that none of the other carbines posted have addressed.

However, that is rather a beautiful firearm that MonkeyTurbo posted.  Prettiest stock I've ever seen holding a Lee-Enfield action.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:32:25 PM EDT
Actually, since it seems like my idea is no longer so original, I'm willing to take suggestions on features.  It's gotta stay Enfield, eccentric, QD take down, and doublestack.  Other than that, what should it be/have?
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:41:29 PM EDT
I'm working on 3 guns right now.  Remington 788 actions, 45acp, integral suppressor and feeding from 1911 or Glock 21 mags.  Hopefully next week, I can get one up and running.

Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:48:26 PM EDT
I shot one recently.  It was a very fun plinker to not annoy the neighbors.

You could probably build a poor man's delisle with a mauser action, and rhineland 45acp kit, and a big old pipe.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:49:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/22/2016 10:50:49 PM EDT by Hesperus]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 50cal:
Special Interest Arms had some really neat rifles a long time ago. I had one of their Enfield conversion 7.62x39 carbines. It was a nice little rifle. It was stolen long ago. Probably never see it again.
Would love to own another one.
View Quote


Richard SIA is still making Delisle's. I think.

I think he is transitioning over to a version based off of a pistol caliber bolt action carbine from RIA in the Philippines. Enfield actions don't grow on trees anymore. The last time I talked to they guy he said he was limited by the tiny amount of them available. It's in 9MM, takes beretta? Magazines and I can say from first hand experience that it is quieter than a loud handclap.

Also available in 40 and 10MM
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:50:27 PM EDT
Modern Welrod

Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:51:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


Made by B&T and not a chance in hell it will ever be available in this country right?
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:53:43 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Hesperus:


Made by B&T and not a chance in hell it will ever be available in this country right?
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Originally Posted By Hesperus:


Made by B&T and not a chance in hell it will ever be available in this country right?


Sadly seems to be the case. I'd love to have one.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 10:57:16 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Kuraki:


I've got one.  I've had it measured by proper equipment.  It will never be as quiet as a bolt gun due to the action noise.  Whether that matters at that level of suppression is in the eye of the beholder.  I'm still building a DeLisle because it will be quieter.  Secondly because 230 grain .45 bullets are designed to work at 980 fps where the vast majority of 220+ .30 cal bullets may as well be FMJ at subsonic speed.  But that's another can of worms.

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Originally Posted By Kuraki:
Originally Posted By somedude:
.300 blkout is pretty quiet, not heard it in person, but videos and many others have said the same.

no idea on db rating.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl0Vng0qMFo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_D9neCL2c8


I've got one.  I've had it measured by proper equipment.  It will never be as quiet as a bolt gun due to the action noise.  Whether that matters at that level of suppression is in the eye of the beholder.  I'm still building a DeLisle because it will be quieter.  Secondly because 230 grain .45 bullets are designed to work at 980 fps where the vast majority of 220+ .30 cal bullets may as well be FMJ at subsonic speed.  But that's another can of worms.


Now that IA legalized cans I want one of the NEF Handi-Rifles in .300 Blackout just for the quiet potential.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 11:01:41 PM EDT
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Link Posted: 4/22/2016 11:08:44 PM EDT
SRT 9 mm Ar15 is pretty quiet. Some MP5SD's are movie quiet too.
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 11:13:15 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/22/2016 11:31:27 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Hesperus:


Richard SIA is still making Delisle's. I think.

I think he is transitioning over to a version based off of a pistol caliber bolt action carbine from RIA in the Philippines. Enfield actions don't grow on trees anymore. The last time I talked to they guy he said he was limited by the tiny amount of them available. It's in 9MM, takes beretta? Magazines and I can say from first hand experience that it is quieter than a loud handclap.

Also available in 40 and 10MM
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Originally Posted By Hesperus:
Originally Posted By 50cal:
Special Interest Arms had some really neat rifles a long time ago. I had one of their Enfield conversion 7.62x39 carbines. It was a nice little rifle. It was stolen long ago. Probably never see it again.
Would love to own another one.


Richard SIA is still making Delisle's. I think.

I think he is transitioning over to a version based off of a pistol caliber bolt action carbine from RIA in the Philippines. Enfield actions don't grow on trees anymore. The last time I talked to they guy he said he was limited by the tiny amount of them available. It's in 9MM, takes beretta? Magazines and I can say from first hand experience that it is quieter than a loud handclap.

Also available in 40 and 10MM


Second thread I have seen about his stuff in 5 minutes. He is building off the RIA 22 TCM guns and I am pretty sure they use para mags.
Link Posted: 4/23/2016 12:20:12 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Top_Secret:


Sadly seems to be the case. I'd love to have one.
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Originally Posted By Top_Secret:
Originally Posted By Hesperus:


Made by B&T and not a chance in hell it will ever be available in this country right?


Sadly seems to be the case. I'd love to have one.


I seriously wonder how hard it would be to make a home built version?

Perhaps incorporating 3D printed components to minimize costs....?

All done within the letter of the law of course.
Link Posted: 4/23/2016 12:23:43 AM EDT
Is Valkyrie still in business?





Link Posted: 4/23/2016 12:39:01 AM EDT
Whiskerz has something neat going on with Len Savage. I don't want to steal his thunder.
Link Posted: 4/23/2016 12:41:47 AM EDT
what about those crazy Russian designs where the bullet is propelled by a captive plunger in the cartridge, i.e. no propellant gases escape the cartridge.
Link Posted: 4/23/2016 12:48:09 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By FIELD_MP:
I think a modern DeLisle would be:

Bolt action
.300blk
Integrally suppressed
AR mag fed

More easily attainable would be a Mossberg MVP or Ruger Scout, re-barreled with a 6-10" .300blk and threaded for a suppressor.  

Either way you're quiet, compact and mimicking .45 ballistics.
View Quote


Fuck that. The only reason to use .300blk is to load and fire commonly available .308 projectiles through ARs with as much parts commonality as possible. And when you go subsonic with a .30 caliber projectile, you give up a lot.

If you're going to restrict velocity (to stay subsonic), the only way to add energy is to add mass. I'd want to stick with .45acp if not move up to a big bore revolver cartridge like .44mag or .45colt.
Link Posted: 4/23/2016 1:00:58 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By TheYellowThing:
Is Valkyrie still in business?



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Seriously doubt it.
Link Posted: 4/23/2016 1:02:54 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Denwad:
what about those crazy Russian designs where the bullet is propelled by a captive plunger in the cartridge, i.e. no propellant gases escape the cartridge.
View Quote


The design has some specific and odd technical issues.

And one really big legal hurdle in this country. Since the ammo is the silenced component your cartridges would cost $200 a shot, minimum.
Link Posted: 4/23/2016 1:12:06 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By BradN:
I'm working on 3 guns right now.  Remington 788 actions, 45acp, integral suppressor and feeding from 1911 or Glock 21 mags.  Hopefully next week, I can get one up and running.
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Shut up and take my money.jpg if G21 mag.

I have checked and there should be enough width to put a G21 mag in an Ishapore Enfield mag, not sure about regular .303 Enfield mags.  I've got an old Ishy, already sporterized, that I'd like to send to someone to make a modernized DeLisle.


Link Posted: 4/23/2016 1:26:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/23/2016 1:27:57 AM EDT by sandboxmedic]
SRT Arms makes an integral 77/44.  I've also seen a Ruger 77 rebarreled to .45acp with an integral suppressor, I didn't get to hear it shoot though.  

Several companies have integral Marlin Camp Carbines in both 9mm and .45acp but that gun is blowback operated so still louder than a bolt gun would be.
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