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AR15.COM
12/28/2004 5:52:22 PM EDT
I keep comming across books that promise to inprove your marksmanship. Can you really learn about shooting from books? or is it a case of simple practice,practice and more practice.

How did you learn?

12/28/2004 5:55:28 PM EDT
[#1]
Use heavy calibers when learning to shoot well(unless a child)...  Absolute minimum is 7.62*51.  The techniques and discipline used there will make shooting small calibers seem easy.  I giggle when I see people saying that FALs, M1A, or G3s kick hard...  The only reason for this is that they must be accustomed to 5.56.
12/28/2004 5:55:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Get the USMC Marksmanship manual.

If you follow it, it should help you.

Put it this way:  USMC marksmanship instructors have two weeks to teach people who have never touched a firearm in their life how to hit a man's torso at 500 yards using a beat-up boot camp M16 and they do so regularly with VERY few failures.  The system works.
12/28/2004 5:56:24 PM EDT
[#3]
Books can help you with the basic ideas behind marksmanship skills, but there is no substitute for practice.
The problem lies in creating and reinforcing bad habits, so working with a knowledgable instructor/shooter is important as well.
12/28/2004 5:57:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Anyone tried Freds? Ive always been tempted to buy his little manual, but dont know. I shoot 2in groups open sight at 100 yards with a 65 yr old mouser as it is.
12/28/2004 5:57:59 PM EDT
[#5]
Inhale, exhale.  Inhale, exhale halfway.  Top of front sight post on target, squeeze.  (Or for optic, center on target, squeeze).  Squeeze slowly through last half of breath to see the recoil of the firearm.

There is your entire book.  You're Welcome.  
12/28/2004 6:01:36 PM EDT
[#6]
What Gunslinger808 says.  Books can help, but practice, practice, practice.  Trigger time is a must and marksmanship is not something acquired through academics.
12/28/2004 6:04:57 PM EDT
[#7]

Quoted:
Inhale, exhale.  Inhale, exhale halfway.  Top of front sight post on target, squeeze.  (Or for optic, center on target, squeeze).  Squeeze slowly through last half of breath to see the recoil of the firearm. There is your entire book.  You're Welcome.  



I am not sure they still teach the "exhale halfway" method any longer.
I believe the newer training is to squeeze the trigger in the time between when you completely exhale and you begin your inhale.

Inhale, exhale, fire inhale
12/28/2004 6:07:35 PM EDT
[#8]

Quoted:
Get the USMC Marksmanship manual.

If you follow it, it should help you.

Put it this way:  USMC marksmanship instructors have two weeks to teach people who have never touched a firearm in their life how to hit a man's torso at 500 yards using a beat-up boot camp M16 and they do so regularly with VERY few failures.  The system works.



+1... I had never shot a rifle at all when I went to Parris island.  Within two years I shot in Marine Corps matches. I shot a total of 300 rounds at PI and left there extremely confident in my shooting abilities.  The first week of the two weeks was nothing but classroom and dry firing ( AKA: snapping in or grass week).  The actual firing week was 60 rounds each day for 5 days.  If you learn it right, it doesn't take alot of ammo to get it.  Honing the skill is another issue entirely, which requires that same concentration with many, many more rounds downrange.  

My $.02

12/28/2004 6:08:13 PM EDT
[#9]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Inhale, exhale.  Inhale, exhale halfway.  Top of front sight post on target, squeeze.  (Or for optic, center on target, squeeze).  Squeeze slowly through last half of breath to see the recoil of the firearm. There is your entire book.  You're Welcome.  



I am not sure they still teach the "exhale halfway" method any longer.
I believe the newer training is to squeeze the trigger in the time between when you completely exhale and you begin your inhale.

Inhale, exhale, fire inhale




It has gotten me 10X Bullseye targets with a .45 at 50 yards, so I still subscribe to it.   However, you might want to "try out" the different methods.

Note:  Trying out off a bench/rest/leaning/etc is NOT "Trying it out".  You need to shoot solid unsupported at least 5 MOA, work at that goal.   (vs MOA with a 10X 1 handed on a .45)
12/28/2004 6:09:45 PM EDT
[#10]
Books are very useful, especially the USMC Manual.  I keep one in my range bag, it's good to have the photos for proper form.

Make sure that you get off the bench.  Shooting too much from a bench will lead to bad habits.  I only use it for verifying zero with new ammo.  Get a feel for your natural point of aim in the various positions.

Also, avoid firng long strings from the same sight picture.  Practice the presentation of the piece.  

Marksmanship training is great fun.
12/28/2004 6:10:30 PM EDT
[#11]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Inhale, exhale.  Inhale, exhale halfway.  Top of front sight post on target, squeeze.  (Or for optic, center on target, squeeze).  Squeeze slowly through last half of breath to see the recoil of the firearm. There is your entire book.  You're Welcome.  



I am not sure they still teach the "exhale halfway" method any longer.
I believe the newer training is to squeeze the trigger in the time between when you completely exhale and you begin your inhale.

Inhale, exhale, fire inhale



Hunter's safety class I went to a few weeks ago was still teaching the exhale halfway method.  Military marksmanship class (easy fun GPA padding -- no offense to redleg13a who is now teaching the course) was teaching the fire-between-breaths-during-natural-respiration-pause method, with the exhale-halfway being used for more rapid fire.

single target:  inhale, exhale, fire, inhale
multiple targets (or "rapid fire" competition):  inhale, exhale halfway, fire, exhale, fire, inhale, etc etc

of course, these were being taught in the context of timed, competition shooting....not the battlefield...
12/28/2004 6:11:35 PM EDT
[#12]

Quoted:
Books are very useful, especially the USMC Manual.  I keep one in my range bag, it's good to have the photos for proper form.

Make sure that you get off the bench.  Shooting too much from a bench will lead to bad habits.  I only use it for verifying zero with new ammo.  Get a feel for your natural point of aim in the various positions.

Also, avoid firng long strings from the same sight picture.  Practice the presentation of the piece.  

Marksmanship training is great fun.



What Jeepster said if you really want to be able to "outshoot your gun".

(downside is that you will be spending more money on firearms so that you can't outshoot them.... )
12/28/2004 6:11:44 PM EDT
[#13]

Quoted:
Use heavy calibers when learning to shoot well(unless a child)...  Absolute minimum is 7.62*51.  The techniques and discipline used there will make shooting small calibers seem easy.  I giggle when I see people saying that FALs, M1A, or G3s kick hard...  The only reason for this is that they must be accustomed to 5.56.



I completely disagree.

And this isn't bragging or showboating so please dont take it that way.

I would say buy a semi accurate bolt action .22 (or a semi-tricked out 10/22 even).

Photocopy some bulleyes (you'll need a lot), 4 on a page maybe.

Come back after you've shot about 2500 rounds  Prone, offhand, sitting, kneeling, anything but off sandbags on a bench.  

That's how I learned, at ages 14-18 on a high school shooting team.  It took me ~2500 rounds to be decently competitive.  Senior year I was posting some of the highest scores in the state and had the highest average on the #1 team.  

I'm a firm believer in learning the basics on a .22 (no kick, cheap to shoot), instead of trying to learn on a .30-06 or a .300 Mag and developing a flinch and bad habits (granted you can get bad habits with a .22 also).  

Yes you can learn from a book, especially some tips or variations of postions.  But the best thing to do is to get some time behind the trigger (and a good trigger pull helps a ton).  I needed about 2500 or 3000 rounds before I get decent, you can do the math to see how much cheaper that is with a .22 than a .223 or a .308

For breathing I take 3 deep breathes, letting the last one out halfway.  Also, if your position or breathing isn't right, stop and start over.  Dont force or rush shots.  
12/28/2004 6:18:15 PM EDT
[#14]
BRASS-F
12/28/2004 6:26:13 PM EDT
[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Use heavy calibers when learning to shoot well(unless a child)...  Absolute minimum is 7.62*51.  The techniques and discipline used there will make shooting small calibers seem easy.  I giggle when I see people saying that FALs, M1A, or G3s kick hard...  The only reason for this is that they must be accustomed to 5.56.



I completely disagree.

And this isn't bragging or showboating so please dont take it that way.

I would say buy a semi accurate bolt action .22 (or a semi-tricked out 10/22 even).

Photocopy some bulleyes (you'll need a lot), 4 on a page maybe.

Come back after you've shot about 2500 rounds  Prone, offhand, sitting, kneeling, anything but off sandbags on a bench.  

That's how I learned, at ages 14-18 on a high school shooting team.  It took me ~2500 rounds to be decently competitive.  Senior year I was posting some of the highest scores in the state and had the highest average on the #1 team.  

I'm a firm believer in learning the basics on a .22 (no kick, cheap to shoot), instead of trying to learn on a .30-06 or a .300 Mag and developing a flinch and bad habits (granted you can get bad habits with a .22 also).  

Yes you can learn from a book, especially some tips or variations of postions.  But the best thing to do is to get some time behind the trigger (and a good trigger pull helps a ton).  I needed about 2500 or 3000 rounds before I get decent, you can do the math to see how much cheaper that is with a .22 than a .223 or a .308

For breathing I take 3 deep breathes, letting the last one out halfway.  Also, if your position or breathing isn't right, stop and start over.  Dont force or rush shots.  





Both of these guys speak with a certain amount of truth, as odd as it seems.

I shoot in a competitive league and most of the year it's an AR. Making the switch to a Garand for the JCG matches can be pretty overwhelming.

OTOH, basic marksmanship is properly taught with a .22.

on the competitive circuit, there are 2 disciplines: High Power and smallbore. HP is any centerfire and smallbore is .22 rimfire.

A young feller with a partial scholarship to Penn State(smallbore) tells me his coach told him NOT to shoot HP during smallbore season as they ARE 2 different disciplines.



FWIW
12/28/2004 6:28:28 PM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:
Use heavy calibers when learning to shoot well(unless a child)...  Absolute minimum is 7.62*51.  The techniques and discipline used there will make shooting small calibers seem easy.  I giggle when I see people saying that FALs, M1A, or G3s kick hard...  The only reason for this is that they must be accustomed to 5.56.



Or they'se small-framed girls, like my girlfriend.
12/28/2004 6:29:03 PM EDT
[#17]

Quoted:
BRASS-F