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Posted: 1/27/2009 7:48:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 7:50:10 AM EDT
isnt building a gun ok if it doesnt violate NFA?
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 7:50:36 AM EDT
Wait a minute, what is he charged with?

I was under the impression that there is no federal requirement to put a serial number on a homemade firearm.

(Frantically searching workshop for number stamp set...)
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 7:51:01 AM EDT
Quoted:
isnt building a gun ok if it doesnt violate NFA?


Yes.

Quoted:
Wait a minute, what is he charged with?

I was under the impression that there is no federal requirement to put a serial number on a homemade firearm.

(Frantically searching workshop for number stamp set...)


My guess is that the news people got it wrong, like usual.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 7:52:13 AM EDT
Because he was committed to a mental institution in the past, it is illegal for Benningfield to possess a firearm or ammunition.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 7:52:30 AM EDT
I have an old .22lr that doesn't have a s/n
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 7:53:31 AM EDT
Another case of stupid media.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 7:54:25 AM EDT
Quoted:
Because he was committed to a mental institution in the past, it is illegal for Benningfield to possess a firearm or ammunition.


I like how the reporter just kind of slipped that in at the end.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 7:54:42 AM EDT
It could also be considered a zip gun, no?
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 7:56:57 AM EDT
"Directional mine", my ass.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 7:58:01 AM EDT
he was previously adjucated mentally defective :-P
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 8:07:50 AM EDT
Quoted:
he was previously adjucated mentally defective :-P


The reporter was wrong when he said he was arrested for having a firearm with no serial number, this was the real reason he was arrested...

- AG

Link Posted: 1/27/2009 8:10:12 AM EDT
If you notice, they charged him with possesion of a destructive device.

The pipe ID was probably larger than the .50 cal allowed.  Maybe the 30-30 cartridges were encased in rubber hose to make them fit the ID of the pipe.

That's my uninformed observation.

If it fired 12 guage shells, it may have saved him some grief?
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 8:10:28 AM EDT
depending on the type of firearm created from the piece of pipe, he most likely could also be charged with making an AOW without proper approval.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 8:16:25 AM EDT
Quoted:
If you notice, they charged him with possesion of a destructive device.

The pipe ID was probably larger than the .50 cal allowed.  Maybe the 30-30 cartridges were encased in rubber hose to make them fit the ID of the pipe.

That's my uninformed observation.

If it fired 12 guage shells, it may have saved him some grief?


It also would have been a non-rifled (smoothbore) firearm that was not a shotgun or muzzleloader/blackpowder... which would put it in NFA territory (AOW), IIRC.  
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 8:17:25 AM EDT
"No freeman shall ever be debarred the use of arms."

- Thomas Jefferson
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 8:52:20 AM EDT
I have a freind(an Indian) who made a black powder rifle out of black iron gas pipe (.50 cal. ball) He claimed it was pretty accurate to about 100yds.  It is unblievablly light , He used to enter comp.shoots with it until they found out what it was made of then he got banned.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 9:05:44 AM EDT
Quoted:
If you notice, they charged him with possesion of a destructive device.

The pipe ID was probably larger than the .50 cal allowed.  Maybe the 30-30 cartridges were encased in rubber hose to make them fit the ID of the pipe.

That's my uninformed observation.

If it fired 12 guage shells, it may have saved him some grief?


The pipe diameter had nothing to do with it.

When the device was disassembled, federal explosives experts identified it as a directional mine or a homemade gun.


26 U.S.C. § 5845

(f)  Destructive device
The term “destructive device” means
(1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas
(A) bomb,
(B) grenade,
(C) rocket having a propellent charge of more than four ounces,
(D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,
(E) mine, or
(F) similar device;


Link Posted: 1/27/2009 9:12:03 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
isnt building a gun ok if it doesnt violate NFA?


Yes.

Quoted:
Wait a minute, what is he charged with?

I was under the impression that there is no federal requirement to put a serial number on a homemade firearm.

(Frantically searching workshop for number stamp set...)


My guess is that the news people got it wrong, like usual.


This is why he was charged

Because he was committed to a mental institution in the past, it is illegal for Benningfield to possess a firearm or ammunition.


Link Posted: 1/27/2009 9:24:43 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you notice, they charged him with possesion of a destructive device.

The pipe ID was probably larger than the .50 cal allowed.  Maybe the 30-30 cartridges were encased in rubber hose to make them fit the ID of the pipe.

That's my uninformed observation.

If it fired 12 guage shells, it may have saved him some grief?


The pipe diameter had nothing to do with it.

When the device was disassembled, federal explosives experts identified it as a directional mine or a homemade gun.


26 U.S.C. § 5845

(f)  Destructive device
The term “destructive device” means
(1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas
(A) bomb,
(B) grenade,
(C) rocket having a propellent charge of more than four ounces,
(D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,
(E) mine, or
(F) similar device;




So, if they felt like it, any home-made firearm could be considered a "directional mine?"
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 9:26:44 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you notice, they charged him with possesion of a destructive device.

The pipe ID was probably larger than the .50 cal allowed.  Maybe the 30-30 cartridges were encased in rubber hose to make them fit the ID of the pipe.

That's my uninformed observation.

If it fired 12 guage shells, it may have saved him some grief?


The pipe diameter had nothing to do with it.

When the device was disassembled, federal explosives experts identified it as a directional mine or a homemade gun.


26 U.S.C. § 5845

(f)  Destructive device
The term “destructive device” means
(1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas
(A) bomb,
(B) grenade,
(C) rocket having a propellent charge of more than four ounces,
(D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,
(E) mine, or
(F) similar device;




So, if they felt like it, any home-made firearm could be considered a "directional mine?"


That is probably the reason the charge was dropped. The prosecutor realized it was a flimsy charge.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 9:27:05 AM EDT
Quoted:
Because he was committed to a mental institution in the past, it is illegal for Benningfield to possess a firearm or ammunition.






"During a hearing in U.S. District Court in Missoula, Andrew Scott Benningfield, 37, of Whitefish pleaded guilty Tuesday to possession of a firearm without a serial number."
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 9:28:32 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Because he was committed to a mental institution in the past, it is illegal for Benningfield to possess a firearm or ammunition.






During a hearing in U.S. District Court in Missoula, Andrew Scott Benningfield, 37, of Whitefish pleaded guilty Tuesday to possession of a firearm without a serial number.


We could do this all day.

Link Posted: 1/27/2009 9:32:55 AM EDT
Quoted:
Because he was committed to a mental institution in the past, it is illegal for Benningfield to possess a firearm or ammunition.


AH.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 9:35:54 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Because he was committed to a mental institution in the past, it is illegal for Benningfield to possess a firearm or ammunition.






During a hearing in U.S. District Court in Missoula, Andrew Scott Benningfield, 37, of Whitefish pleaded guilty Tuesday to possession of a firearm without a serial number.


We could do this all day.





I don't think so. From the US Dept of Justice:

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/mt/pressreleases/20090121135531.html


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Wednesday, January 21, 2009
ANDREW SCOTT BENNINGFIELD PLEADS GUILTY IN U.S. FEDERAL COURT

–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Bill Mercer, United States Attorney for the District of Montana, announced today that during a federal court session in Missoula on January 20, 2009, before U.S. District Judge Donald W. Molloy, ANDREW SCOTT BENNINGFIELD, a 37-year-old resident of Whitefish, pled guilty to possession of a firearm without a serial number. Sentencing is set for March 27, 2009. He is currently detained.

In an Offer of Proof filed by the United States, the government stated it would have proved at trial the following:

On August 10, 2007, the Whitefish Police Department arrested BENNINGFIELD for disorderly conduct and criminal mischief. At the time, officers located a firearm on BENNINGFIELD'S person.

The firearm was a six-inch long metal pipe with a metal cap attached to one end. It contained a nail-like object, similar to a firing pin that protruded from the metal end cap, and cloth covered the opposite end of the pipe. The cloth was secured by a pair of vice grips and a .30-.30 ammunition round was fastened inside the pipe by a rubber grommet.

A firearms enforcement officer with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives would have testified that it was in fact a firearm capable of firing an ammunition cartridge. This firearm was not identified by manufacturer or serial number as required by law.

BENNINGFIELD faces possible penalties of 10 years in prison, a $10,000 fine and 3 years supervised release.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Paulette L. Stewart prosecuted the case for the United States.

The investigation was a cooperative effort between the Whitefish Police Department and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

# # # #

A copy of the Offer of Proof can be obtained by contacting Sally Frank at (406) 247-4638.






Link Posted: 1/27/2009 9:36:43 AM EDT
Quoted:
he was previously adjucated mentally defective :-P


And this is one of the reasons why people who need psychiatric assistance refuse to seek it –– they don't want to become second-class citizens and treated like Negros.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 9:37:18 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you notice, they charged him with possesion of a destructive device.

The pipe ID was probably larger than the .50 cal allowed.  Maybe the 30-30 cartridges were encased in rubber hose to make them fit the ID of the pipe.

That's my uninformed observation.

If it fired 12 guage shells, it may have saved him some grief?


The pipe diameter had nothing to do with it.

When the device was disassembled, federal explosives experts identified it as a directional mine or a homemade gun.


26 U.S.C. § 5845

(f)  Destructive device
The term “destructive device” means
(1) any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas
(A) bomb,
(B) grenade,
(C) rocket having a propellent charge of more than four ounces,
(D) missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce,
(E) mine, or
(F) similar device;




Smoothbore pistol (AOW) would probably be a more accurate description.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 9:40:44 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Because he was committed to a mental institution in the past, it is illegal for Benningfield to possess a firearm or ammunition.






During a hearing in U.S. District Court in Missoula, Andrew Scott Benningfield, 37, of Whitefish pleaded guilty Tuesday to possession of a firearm without a serial number.


We could do this all day.





I don't think so. From the US Dept of Justice:

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/mt/pressreleases/20090121135531.html


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Wednesday, January 21, 2009
ANDREW SCOTT BENNINGFIELD PLEADS GUILTY IN U.S. FEDERAL COURT

–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Bill Mercer, United States Attorney for the District of Montana, announced today that during a federal court session in Missoula on January 20, 2009, before U.S. District Judge Donald W. Molloy, ANDREW SCOTT BENNINGFIELD, a 37-year-old resident of Whitefish, pled guilty to possession of a firearm without a serial number. Sentencing is set for March 27, 2009. He is currently detained.

In an Offer of Proof filed by the United States, the government stated it would have proved at trial the following:

On August 10, 2007, the Whitefish Police Department arrested BENNINGFIELD for disorderly conduct and criminal mischief. At the time, officers located a firearm on BENNINGFIELD'S person.

The firearm was a six-inch long metal pipe with a metal cap attached to one end. It contained a nail-like object, similar to a firing pin that protruded from the metal end cap, and cloth covered the opposite end of the pipe. The cloth was secured by a pair of vice grips and a .30-.30 ammunition round was fastened inside the pipe by a rubber grommet.

A firearms enforcement officer with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives would have testified that it was in fact a firearm capable of firing an ammunition cartridge. This firearm was not identified by manufacturer or serial number as required by law.

BENNINGFIELD faces possible penalties of 10 years in prison, a $10,000 fine and 3 years supervised release.

Assistant U.S. Attorney Paulette L. Stewart prosecuted the case for the United States.

The investigation was a cooperative effort between the Whitefish Police Department and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

# # # #

A copy of the Offer of Proof can be obtained by contacting Sally Frank at (406) 247-4638.








Ah, ok. It seemed like the first article had that "no serial  number" thrown  is as one of the many "ZOMG!!!11" phrases the liberal media likes to use to sensationalize articles.

Link Posted: 1/27/2009 9:42:25 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Because he was committed to a mental institution in the past, it is illegal for Benningfield to possess a firearm or ammunition.






During a hearing in U.S. District Court in Missoula, Andrew Scott Benningfield, 37, of Whitefish pleaded guilty Tuesday to possession of a firearm without a serial number.


We could do this all day.



I suspect it's because they are classifying it as NFA, and as such it does need the SN, with the name, city, and state of the maker.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 9:43:23 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Because he was committed to a mental institution in the past, it is illegal for Benningfield to possess a firearm or ammunition.


I like how the reporter just kind of slipped that in at the end.


At least they put that in there.  They could have left it out entirely and kept the myth up.

Oh, and it sounds like a AOW.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 9:44:07 AM EDT
Ah, it all comes clear.

They charged him with possession of a Firearm without the required Manufacturer and Serial Number markings.  The key word here, is Firearm.

They are using it in the NFA sense: A Firearm covered by one of the categories of the NFA.  In this case, either a Destructive Device, or an AOW.

NFA 'Firearms' are required to have certain markings, including Manufacturer and Serial Number, EVEN if you make them at home.  (Note the guys in the NFA forum always asking where to send their lowers to get them Engraved when they make an SBR at home.)

Contrast this with Title I 'Firearms', such as Pistols, Rifles, Shotguns, etc. which you can make at home and which do NOT require the same markings.

I love how the word Firearm has two COMPLETELY separate meanings and definitions in two sections of US Federal Law.

FluxPrism
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 9:45:56 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Because he was committed to a mental institution in the past, it is illegal for Benningfield to possess a firearm or ammunition.






During a hearing in U.S. District Court in Missoula, Andrew Scott Benningfield, 37, of Whitefish pleaded guilty Tuesday to possession of a firearm without a serial number.


We could do this all day.



I suspect it's because they are classifying it as NFA, and as such it does need the SN, with the name, city, and state of the maker.




If that was the case, they would have charged him with manufacturing and possessing an illegal NFA weapon.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 9:55:31 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Because he was committed to a mental institution in the past, it is illegal for Benningfield to possess a firearm or ammunition.






During a hearing in U.S. District Court in Missoula, Andrew Scott Benningfield, 37, of Whitefish pleaded guilty Tuesday to possession of a firearm without a serial number.


We could do this all day.



I suspect it's because they are classifying it as NFA, and as such it does need the SN, with the name, city, and state of the maker.




If that was the case, they would have charged him with manufacturing and possessing an illegal NFA weapon.


They probably should have.  That may be essentially what they charged him with though.  If you read the report it says "a short length of pipe."  That could be a AOW because it would be smoothbore if the pipe was less than 18" long.
Link Posted: 1/27/2009 10:00:09 AM EDT
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Because he was committed to a mental institution in the past, it is illegal for Benningfield to possess a firearm or ammunition.






During a hearing in U.S. District Court in Missoula, Andrew Scott Benningfield, 37, of Whitefish pleaded guilty Tuesday to possession of a firearm without a serial number.


We could do this all day.



I suspect it's because they are classifying it as NFA, and as such it does need the SN, with the name, city, and state of the maker.




If that was the case, they would have charged him with manufacturing and possessing an illegal NFA weapon.


They probably should have.  That may be essentially what they charged him with though.  If you read the report it says "a short length of pipe."  That could be a AOW because it would be smoothbore if the pipe was less than 18" long.




I found this. Possibly the "firearm" without a serial number was a "bomb"???



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Thursday, January 24, 2008
INFORMATIONAL: FEDERAL COURT ARRAIGNMENT

–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Bill Mercer, United States Attorney for the District of Montana, announced today that during a federal court session in Missoula, on January 24, 2008, before U.S. Magistrate Judge Jeremiah C. Lynch, the following individual was arraigned:

ANDREW SCOTT BENNINGFIELD, a resident of Whitefish, appeared on a charge of possession of a bomb by a committed person. He is currently detained. If convicted of this charge, BENNINGFIELD faces possible penalties of 10 years in prison, a $250,000 fine and 3 years supervised release. Assistant U.S. Attorney Paulette L. Stewart is the prosecutor for the United States. The investigation was conducted by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

The defendant pled not guilty to the charge(s).

The charge, an indictment, information or complaint, is merely an accusation and any person named as a defendant is presumed innocent until proven guilty. A pre-trial conference and a trial date will be set and the United States will be required to prove the allegations set forth in the indictment beyond a reasonable doubt.



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