Posted: 3/5/2003 9:11:05 AM EDT
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Mar 5, 6:23 AM EST Man Arrested for Wearing Peace T-Shirt By DAMITA CHAMBERS Associated Press Writer ALBANY, N.Y. (AP) -- A man was charged with trespassing in a mall after he refused to take off a T-shirt that said "Peace on Earth" and "Give peace a chance." Mall security approached Stephen Downs, 61, and his 31-year-old son, Roger, on Monday night after they were spotted wearing the T-shirts at Crossgates Mall in a suburb of Albany, the men said. The two said they were asked to remove the shirts made at a store there, or leave the mall. They refused. The guards returned with a police officer who repeated the ultimatum. The son took his T-shirt off, but the father refused. "'I said, `All right then, arrest me if you have to,'" Downs said. "So that's what they did. They put the handcuffs on and took me away." Advertisement Downs pleaded innocent to the charges Monday night. The New York Civil Liberties Union said it would help with his case if asked. Police Chief James Murley said his officers were just responding to a complaint by mall security. "We don't care what they have on their shirts, but they were asked to leave the property, and it's private property," Murley said. A mall spokeswoman did not return calls Tuesday seeking comment. Monday's arrest came less than three months after about 20 peace activists wearing similar T-shirts were told to leave by mall security and police. There were no arrests. |
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Quoted: What's wrong here? How is it that I'm in the Mall Ninja's corner on this one? At least that's what my law school prof said years ago. Seems kind of like a dumbass thing to throw someone out of the mall for. What it the mall ninjas said they did not want people wearing gun shirts because it promotes terrorism? |
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Quoted: Quoted: What's wrong here? How is it that I'm in the Mall Ninja's corner on this one? At least that's what my law school prof said years ago. Seems kind of like a dumbass thing to throw someone out of the mall for. What it the mall ninjas said they did not want people wearing gun shirts because it promotes terrorism? Then we wouldnt shop/spend money there, this of course, would be after the ARFCOM Army launched hundreds, if not tens, of angry email, phone calls and letters to the business owners there.[:P] |
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The key point here is that even though we consider a mall to be public property, it is, in fact, private property owned by the mall owners. A buddy of mine is a policeman and works overtime during holidays in the local mall. He told me that many teenagers hang around the mall causing trouble and not actually shopping. When he approaches them and tells them to leave the mall, they are indignant and often tell him he can't make them leave. He explains that they are on private property and the mall can file charges for trespassing if they do not leave. The guys in the story are welcome to wear their stupid tee-shirts on their own property or on actual public property. |
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Quoted: The guys in the story are welcome to wear their stupid tee-shirts on their own property or on actual public property. So, let me get thios straight. If I get a job as a mall ninja I can eject young girls for not wearing miniskirts and see through halter tops? Hmmmm. |
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Not to completely hijack this thread-but-a friend of mine (who is a cop, but not in uniform) was waiting for his wife (at this same mall, I'm pretty sure) when two guys started fighting. He stepped in and was breaking it up, kind of wrestling around with them when one guy broke off and started to run, my buddy started after him, but was kind of sliding around because he had on sissy leather soled dress shoes, when the mall security showed up-they told him to "Not get involved, let the professionals handle it." Why he was dumb enough to repeat this to me I have no idea. [:P] |
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"So, let me get thios straight. If I get a job as a mall ninja I can eject young girls for not wearing miniskirts and see through halter tops? Hmmmm." I'm sure your question was in jest, but the serious answer is, as a mall ninja, No. But if you "own" the mall, you can eject them if you want too. |
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Quoted: The key point here is that even though we consider a mall to be public property, it is, in fact, private property owned by the mall owners. A buddy of mine is a policeman and works overtime during holidays in the local mall. He told me that many teenagers hang around the mall causing trouble and not actually shopping. When he approaches them and tells them to leave the mall, they are indignant and often tell him he can't make them leave. He explains that they are on private property and the mall can file charges for trespassing if they do not leave. The guys in the story are welcome to wear their stupid tee-shirts on their own property or on actual public property. thats funny the mall can file charges for trespassing? I recently called my local Sheriff's dept becaue a guy climbed my fence and came in my back yard, the Sherriff said it wasnt trespassing because I dont have any "no trespassing signs" on my fence ? I think the Sherrif dept just didnt want to do anything about it. [:(!] |
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Quoted: "So, let me get thios straight. If I get a job as a mall ninja I can eject young girls for not wearing miniskirts and see through halter tops? Hmmmm." I'm sure your question was in jest, but the serious answer is, as a mall ninja, No. But if you "own" the mall, you can eject them if you want too. Oh well, I guess I will stick to medicine then. Yet another fantasy ground beneath the bootheel of reality. |
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Quoted: Quoted: The key point here is that even though we consider a mall to be public property, it is, in fact, private property owned by the mall owners. A buddy of mine is a policeman and works overtime during holidays in the local mall. He told me that many teenagers hang around the mall causing trouble and not actually shopping. When he approaches them and tells them to leave the mall, they are indignant and often tell him he can't make them leave. He explains that they are on private property and the mall can file charges for trespassing if they do not leave. The guys in the story are welcome to wear their stupid tee-shirts on their own property or on actual public property. thats funny the mall can file charges for trespassing? I recently called my local Sheriff's dept becaue a guy climbed my fence and came in my back yard, the Sherriff said it wasnt trespassing because I dont have any "no trespassing signs" on my fence ? I think the Sherrif dept just didnt want to do anything about it. [:(!] In most states it's not trespassing unless: 1) the property is posted or 2) the person has been asked to leave and refuses If the guy in your yard refused to leave when you told him to, he was trespassing. |
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that doesnt make much sense? a guy climbs my 6ft chain link fence and it isnt trespassing? he went over the barrier, common sense says he is a trespasser in my opinion, thats almost like somebody comming into your house because you forgot to lock the front door? and there wasnt a no trespassing sign in front of the house. [>:/] |
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Quoted: that doesnt make much sense? a guy climbs my 6ft chain link fence and it isnt trespassing? he went over the barrier, common sense says he is a trespasser in my opinion, thats almost like somebody comming into your house because you forgot to lock the front door? and there wasnt a no trespassing sign in front of the house. [>:/] I think in most places, if the door is unlocked and someone comes into your house, it is not trespassing. It may depend somewhat on what their intentions are though. |
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Reactionary said: "I think in most places...." Not to pick a personal fight old buddy, but unless you have a law degree in all 50 states, how would you possibly know what the laws are "in most places"? That's a common problem with answering law questions on this forum. You probably know what the laws are where you live, but not everywhere. No offence intended. |
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Quoted: that doesnt make much sense? a guy climbs my 6ft chain link fence and it isnt trespassing? he went over the barrier, common sense says he is a trespasser in my opinion, thats almost like somebody comming into your house because you forgot to lock the front door? and there wasnt a no trespassing sign in front of the house. [>:/] Were you home at the time so you could tell the guy to leave? If you or your designated representative are there and ask them to leave, they must leave or they are trespassing. Signs are there for times when you're not around to tell them to leave. That is what happened in the mall incident. Representatives of the mall ownership asked him to leave and he refused to do so. Ergo, he was trespassing. |
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Quoted: Reactionary said: "I think in most places...." Not to pick a personal fight old buddy, but unless you have a law degree in all 50 states, how would you possibly know what the laws are "in most places"? That's a common problem with answering law questions on this forum. You probably know what the laws are where you live, but not everywhere. No offence intended. You are quite right, I have lived in 3 states. and do not have a law degree in any of them. I certainly wouldn't take anything anyone said on an internet site as fact. He was asking how the situation could not be considered trespassing and I was giving him a possible reason. No offense taken. |
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I think in most places, if the door is unlocked and someone comes into your house, it is not trespassing. It may depend somewhat on what their intentions are though.[/quote] Well I don't think that would stand in Louisiana our laws are very lenient, i have seen where a guy was caught leaning over in a mans car in his driveway and the owner came out and shot him dead and the law said he was protecting his property here in Louisiana.The cops say if he is cought in your house kill him period. |
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In my state, a business owner, or it's agent, has a right to refuse service to anyone they chose. They also have the right to ask you to leave thier place of business. If you refuse, you are subject to arrest for CPC 602.1 Trespass/interfier with a business. And thats the way it should be! |