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Posted: 1/31/2011 3:17:04 PM EDT
(this is about philosophies, not constitutionalities)

A number of years ago at a gun show, I was looking at a merchant's conceal holster for sale and commented that it had no room for a spare magazine. He commented that as a civilian, if one needed more than one magazine, then they are in the wrong gun fight (not that I want to be in any gun fight). He further went on that if your special forces, you're going to be carrying as many magazines as you can but that is opposite if one is a civilian.

Is it? On one side, there is the way I have been trained, and that is to always carry a minimum of 3 magazines.

But on the other side, one sees the fascination of some with ultra high capacity magazines. Why? Do they believe they should only carry one magazine and it should be the max?

Personally, there a handful of reasons of why to have multiple magazines and not just one. If a magazine malfunctions, it can be replaced with another, conceptually (there are limits). If one has a second person, they have the potential for someone reloading while they shoot. If there is a jam, they will have to drop the magazine and a 10 round is easier to handle for a standard pistol than a 30 round. And, of course, I've been trained to load the next magazine in a shooting situation.

Which, on that end point, comes to an item of interest. Are those who are so ultimately fascinated.......not experts in the total field of shooting? That is, is it to them, just point and shoot? Is it just an item of mass convenience?

For those who are finely trained, it can be an extension of the system. One might have images of "Ronin" where De Niro was shooting the battle rifle with the extended magazine. Not a spray, but short bursts in dedicated directions.

What makes us decide that 21 is sufficient for an Ultra Carry, 30 for a USP, 90 for an Uzi?
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(As the Terminator drives, Sara shoots, and John reloads, "Last ones!"––John handing over the reloaded magazines, (w,stte), "Terminator 2")
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:42:18 PM EDT
pushing it up for another pass
_______________________________________________________________
("SH**E IT, SH**E IT, SH**E IT!"––Robin to his sister Susan Shelby, (w,stte), "The Poseidon Adventure")
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:57:23 PM EDT
No such thing as 'too much' ammunition.

I remember meeting a fellow ARFCOMmer up in Dallas at a gun show (the one and only time I also met ETH), who was carrying a Glock 17 with TWO spare magazines. 55 rounds of ammunition.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 11:09:38 PM EDT
Extended magazines can be tricky to conceal.

A magazine pouch on a concealed holster can also make it tricky to conceal. Better to have the holster on one side of the body and the magazine(s) on the other.

One spare magazine is usually recommended. If you're carrying a 1911 or something else in the single digits per mag, two's fine.

More than that for CCW seems... excessive. At some point, you have to stop just adding magazines for the hell of it, and go instead with comfort and concealment. One spare double stack or two spare single stacks is a good stopping point.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 11:18:22 PM EDT
I carry an extra magazine not so much for the additional ammo (even though I carry a 1911), but more so for in case of a malfunction I don't have to worry about retaining that mag.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 11:24:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 11:24:39 PM EDT by www-glock19-com]

Originally Posted By Mosin_Nagant:
I carry an extra magazine not so much for the additional ammo (even though I carry a 1911), but more so for in case of a malfunction I don't have to worry about retaining that mag.

yep
I will admit I am lazy most times and don't carry a extra mag with a "big" gun
if I was good enough with a J frame and a 6 rd speed strip of ammo or a LCP with a spare floating around in my pocket
why wouldn't i be good with 15rds in a G19
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 11:27:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2011 11:34:02 PM EDT by Psychovore]
"Better to have and not need, than to need and not have."

Applies to guns, spare magazines, ammunition, water, pretty much anything upon which you might depend for your survival. Are there ridiculous extremes that the above statement could be carried to? Of course. If I'm in a situation that requires me to use a firearm however, I would definitely consider myself to be "needing" extra magazines even if I didn't wind up using them.

Personally I would prefer two fifteen round magazines for reloads to one thirty round magazine. Easier to conceal, not hanging out the bottom of my pistol, and I'm not fucked if I have a magazine failure.

P.S. Gun shows are as bad as gun counters and gun shops as a source of wise firearms advice, and many times they're worse.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 11:32:00 PM EDT
I always carry one spare mag. I have comp-tac spare mag belt clip pouches for all of my carry guns, and I have double pouches for the glocks if I ever want to use them.

Nothing like having 2 reloads for a 17/22/21SF.

YMMV.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 12:02:30 AM EDT
I always have at least one spare mag on me, no matter the gun. Most anything that goes wrong in a semi auto is mag/ammo related, quickest fix is maybe a tap/rack or a fresh mag. Would I have the mindset to even address a malfunction and swap mags? I can't say, never been in a life or death situation involving my gun and hope to never find out, but I would like to think I would and I like the idea of being prepared. I mean shit, I'm already carrying a heavy ass 1911, what's a spare magazine or two?

People have their opinions and they are entitled to them, they just need to stop making so many damned laws.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 12:10:35 AM EDT
My CCW is a 12 + 1 9mm.

I ALWAYS carry one extra magazine, usually in a pocket.

I doubt I will ever NEED more than 13 rounds....but I'd rather have them, and not NEED them, than need them, and not HAVE them.

My biggest 'plan' is to NOT to have to EVER actually USE my CCW...but, that is a 'decision' that may not be in my hands, at all.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 12:19:06 AM EDT
I distinctly recall going to a Subway in Kirbyville Texas with a Glock 34 and three 20rd magazines. It just felt right.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 12:30:37 AM EDT
Carry as much as YOU feel you need.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 12:32:58 AM EDT
I carry a 1911. I do not plan for a bad magazine. I buy only premium hardware regardless of cost. I label ALL of my magazines for every weapon. When I shoot competitions I keep track of failures, if any. The magazines I carry are proven and will work. 1911 mags do not wear out and I use only stainless so they will not corrode. Sometimes I carry a double mag pouch most of the time I go without. Only a savvy eye can tell I carry.

Glock mags truly are the worst, they wear out, always have to keep an eye on them.

I know guys that have more gear crap on their belt that Batman and they stand out like a superhero.

The 'what if' crowd will always feel naked. I am more comfortable without a handgun for the most part, I just don't worry.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 12:34:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/1/2011 12:35:04 AM EDT by turdferguson]
I carry a spare for fixing malfunctions, but also I know that if I ever use it defensively, there's a good chance I will empty the mag, especially if there's multiple assailants' which is more likely than not, and of course I, and they, will be moving around like our lives depend on it, because they do, so I imagine I would shoot until empty, and I certainly don't want to have no ammo.


I don't always carry a spare mag though, often when I'm going in to work, and only drive 2 minutes, and stick the gun in my glove box.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 1:00:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Dehammer:
I carry a 1911. I do not plan for a bad magazine. I buy only premium hardware regardless of cost. I label ALL of my magazines for every weapon. When I shoot competitions I keep track of failures, if any. The magazines I carry are proven and will work. 1911 mags do not wear out and I use only stainless so they will not corrode. Sometimes I carry a double mag pouch most of the time I go without. Only a savvy eye can tell I carry.

Glock mags truly are the worst, they wear out, always have to keep an eye on them.

I know guys that have more gear crap on their belt that Batman and they stand out like a superhero.

The 'what if' crowd will always feel naked. I am more comfortable without a handgun for the most part, I just don't worry.


How many rounds does it take before they wear out to the point that I always have to keep an eye on them?
In my experience several thousand rounds per mag has had no effect. I don't recall any failure with my Glocks in12 years I have owned them that could be mag related. I know that my experience is anecdotal but I think you may just be a 1911 snob who thinks only high cost equals "premium hardware".

Link Posted: 2/1/2011 1:51:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Dehammer:
I carry a 1911. I do not plan for a bad magazine. I buy only premium hardware regardless of cost. I label ALL of my magazines for every weapon. When I shoot competitions I keep track of failures, if any. The magazines I carry are proven and will work. 1911 mags do not wear out and I use only stainless so they will not corrode.


Not trying to be a jerk, but you do realize that any metal magazine can suffer from bent lips or a dented body, and it's very often not visibly obvious. While I agree that the body of a 1911 magazine would be be fairly unlikely to suffer enough damage to render is unuseable, any magazine that drops free can be bent or broken if it lands wrong. Just because they aren't aluminum doesn't make them invulnerable to harm. Also, especially for carry mags, lint or dirt can get in and bind the spring (again, highly unlikely...but I have had it happen with my M9 when operating in a lot of dust. though admittedly the M9 has very weak magazines).
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 4:53:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Psychovore:........P.S. Gun shows are as bad as gun counters and gun shops as a source of wise firearms advice, and many times they're worse.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile


For sure! It is a buyer beware place. Back during the AWB when I was buying M14 mags, a seller told me that sure Armalite would take the mags he was selling me for AR10 conversions......silly me! But it is more serious than that, such as the merchant who might sell one a folding stock and say there is no problem to attaching it to their Uzi.......won't touch that one!

Originally Posted By JBlitzen:
Extended magazines can be tricky to conceal.

A magazine pouch on a concealed holster can also make it tricky to conceal. Better to have the holster on one side of the body and the magazine(s) on the other.

One spare magazine is usually recommended. If you're carrying a 1911 or something else in the single digits per mag, two's fine.

More than that for CCW seems... excessive. At some point, you have to stop just adding magazines for the hell of it, and go instead with comfort and concealment. One spare double stack or two spare single stacks is a good stopping point.


Pistol on one side, mags on the other, that's how I do it. Still for CHL, it's three for me, one in, two spares. How I'm trained, what my CHL instructor said, how the holsters are built, either for single or double stacked....and how I constantly train. Granted, I've never actually carried the Uzi, 30 rounds or otherwise. It's not an SMG and as a concealed, well.......that might seem a little odd. It really doesn't strike me that the SA Uzi pistol is a practical CHL weapon.......but it's the only potential pistol (have a rifle, hope to have a pistol someday) I have that holds 30 rounds, normally.

Originally Posted By turdferguson:
I carry a spare for fixing malfunctions, but also I know that if I ever use it defensively, there's a good chance I will empty the mag, especially if there's multiple assailants' which is more likely than not, and of course I, and they, will be moving around like our lives depend on it, because they do, so I imagine I would shoot until empty, and I certainly don't want to have no ammo.


Hopefully, if I'm in that gun fight that I don't want to be in, I won't go through all the magazines.......but I train on bouts as if I do. Combat changes, one more round in the pipe during the change, exhausting all the magazines while bobbing on multiple targets, glancing over my shoulder to avoid target fixation.
______________________________________________________
("Hit that button, it ejects the magazine, and then slam another one right in. We're suppose to pick them up because they are rather expensive but I don't think that matters in this case."––Hicks explaining the assault rifle to Ripley, (w,stte), "Aliens")
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:04:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By popnfresh:
Originally Posted By Dehammer:
I carry a 1911. I do not plan for a bad magazine. I buy only premium hardware regardless of cost. I label ALL of my magazines for every weapon. When I shoot competitions I keep track of failures, if any. The magazines I carry are proven and will work. 1911 mags do not wear out and I use only stainless so they will not corrode. Sometimes I carry a double mag pouch most of the time I go without. Only a savvy eye can tell I carry.

Glock mags truly are the worst, they wear out, always have to keep an eye on them.

I know guys that have more gear crap on their belt that Batman and they stand out like a superhero.

The 'what if' crowd will always feel naked. I am more comfortable without a handgun for the most part, I just don't worry.


How many rounds does it take before they wear out to the point that I always have to keep an eye on them?
In my experience several thousand rounds per mag has had no effect. I don't recall any failure with my Glocks in12 years I have owned them that could be mag related. I know that my experience is anecdotal but I think you may just be a 1911 snob who thinks only high cost equals "premium hardware".



For the most part you are right, but your assumption is wrong. I think Glocks are fantastic, I have one, and have bought one for a family member. My 1911 is nothing fancy, it is no show trophy. I don't buy bargain box mags for anything, I don't even try questionable mags even if they are given to me, it is too expensive to play the testing game, and magazines are not prohibitively expensive.

Years ago I shot my Glock heavily, the mag slot wears, and the steel in the feed lips peen. You can debur the feed lips, but once the catch looks worn I toss em. I broke two of the trigger bar springs and an extractor. I flat out do not like the 40SW chambered Glocks, any reloader can tell you how poorly supported that chamber is by the bulging brass. My ritual was draw and fire drills 200 rounds after work 4 days a week plus matches minus life events, same Glock.
Link Posted: 2/1/2011 5:26:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Phocks:
Originally Posted By Dehammer:
I carry a 1911. I do not plan for a bad magazine. I buy only premium hardware regardless of cost. I label ALL of my magazines for every weapon. When I shoot competitions I keep track of failures, if any. The magazines I carry are proven and will work. 1911 mags do not wear out and I use only stainless so they will not corrode.


Not trying to be a jerk, but you do realize that any metal magazine can suffer from bent lips or a dented body, and it's very often not visibly obvious. While I agree that the body of a 1911 magazine would be be fairly unlikely to suffer enough damage to render is unuseable, any magazine that drops free can be bent or broken if it lands wrong. Just because they aren't aluminum doesn't make them invulnerable to harm. Also, especially for carry mags, lint or dirt can get in and bind the spring (again, highly unlikely...but I have had it happen with my M9 when operating in a lot of dust. though admittedly the M9 has very weak magazines).


You are correct. That's why I label my mags. I have yet to wear out my 1911 mags, admittedly I don't shoot as much as I used to, but single stack mags are pretty sturdy. If a mag looks damaged it gets junked, I have thrown some away over the years. Could my mags take a dump, sure, anything can happen. There is a point of diminishing returns. You can go with the mentality of never have enough and gear up like Neo with a trenchcoat or the other end of the spectrum of less is more. I am not a weapons platform for my gear.
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