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Posted: 5/7/2019 5:12:02 PM EDT
If you've been following the "Red Dots intergrated into pistol slides" topic in GD, then you'll know that I ordered one of Noblex/Docter MOS sights a little over a month ago from Optics Planet.  Their site said the expected ship date was between 60 and 90 days.  I had a coupon code and was willing to wait.

Surprisingly, I got on Optics Planet's website a little over a week ago and I noted that the estimated ship date had changed to "14 available, ships in 24 hours".  I immediately called Optics Planet, and the friendly person on the line told me I should have shipping notification within 24 hours.  Much to my delight, the optic was about a month earlier than I thought it would be!  I should have bought a lottery ticket because this type of thing never happens to me.....

Anyway, I received the optic today and wanted to give my initial thoughts and a few rudimentary pictures.

The box...



Nice packaging for sure.



I couldn't wait to get the battery in there and get a look down the optic.  The manual is very basic and simple.  The lens cloth is a nice touch...



The pistol this will live on (for now).



Side profile



A little closer view.  The "wings" that rise above the top of the optic seem pretty robust.  And I do have to admit that this dot is very clear and precisely round (I have a slight astigmatism that really manifests if my eyes try to focus on the dot instead of the target).  This is by far the "cleanest" dot I've seen.  I've looked through all manner of (and own some) EoTechs, T1s, T2s, CompM3s, CompM4s, Primary Arms, Holosun, Vortex, Burris, etc.



I tried for about 5 minutes to get a decent sight picture view, and I had no joy.  I will be removing the fiber optic rod to start practicing with this optic, and I will try my best to get some decent pics looking through the optic.

I immediately noticed that the co-witness with the irons was off by quite a bit, so I went ahead and moved the dot down to get it closer before I actually zero it at the range.  The adjustment screw seems very loose, but maybe this is a design feature...???

I won't get to shoot it today, but I will be dry-firing and drawing.  I've got a Roland Special to compare it to, just FYI.

I'll report back after more time with it, but my initial impressions are positive.  This window sure is small compared to an RMR though.  We'll see how that translates on the range.

ETA:  Was able to get some “through the optic” pics....best I can do with cell cam.

This one doesn’t do justice to the dot but gives an idea of sight picture in relation to the lens and irons...



Focused on the front sight and you can see where I’ve removed the fiber optic rod



Trying to focus on the dot but pics do NOT do it justice.  This thing is clear and very crisp.  Less lens tint than an RMR....





I hope this helps.

ETA 2:

Well this isn’t the update I wanted to present..... I did get to put a few rounds down range today though.

I’m posting from an iPad so be patient.  I’ll add more once I’m in front of a real keyboard.

First, a few pics.

































I will definitely have more to say, but so far I’m diggin it. If one’s fundamentals are sound, then this optic can be just as fast and accurate as the RMR.

No ideas or thoughts or durability yet, but it held zero so far.  I shot about 250 rounds through the Noblex pistol, and another 250 through the RMR Roland, and 50 out of the 10mm with DPP.

Typing on an iPad is horrible, btw.  That’s all for now, lol.

ETA 3:

Wanted to throw a few thoughts out there as they were fresh this morning.

1.  I see/hear a lot of people complaining about the window size.  My only advice, try it for yourself.  I won't try to tell anyone to buy or not to buy/trust/carry this optic.  Way too early in my evaluation to say either way.

2.  My initial thoughts go towards a larger window as well, even just an 1/8" taller.  As I pondered why Docter may have chosen this particular form factor, I quickly realized that the shotgun version of this optic (QuickSite) is the same size window (and dot, which is 5 MOA).  I'm assuming that some person, or team, at Noblex/Docter thought, "Hey, we've already got this quicksite form factor engineered, let's just modify it to fit the MOS cut-out and BAM!, new product!"

3.  This is not the answer to RDS equipped pistols, but it very well could be an answer to some people.

4.  Battery-life.  I don't think the manual hinted at this spec.  I will double check when I get a chance.  Either way, there is no on/off switch.  The dot is always on and adjusting to existing lighting conditions.  However, the dot does seem to have a "sleep" mode when it doesn't sense movement for over 5 or so minutes.  The dot auto-adjust and overall brightness is excellent.  I tried shooting from dark into light, and light into dark, shooting with the setting sun in my face, etc.  Never an issue in picking up the dot for brightness or lack thereof.

5.  Optic layout.  Would be cool to see if Noblex could switch the locations of the battery compartment and viewing window.  Put the window to the rear so it would be just in front of the rear iron, and move the battery compartment to the front near the ejection port.  Anybody see drawbacks to that?  Again, I think this further proves that most companies R&D for MRDS' have been geared toward long gun use....

Again, I cannot stress enough about how clear this window is and how crisp the dot is.  I don't know the details about the technology they use or the type of glass/plastic the window is made of, but it is nice to look through.

I look forward to spending more time drawing, presenting, and dry-firing with this setup.  I'm really not keen on doing a true torture test; but if it holds up to regular training and practice, and the battery life is decent then I'm going to view this optic as a success for me personally.

All in all it's been a good week so far.  I got this yesterday, and had to get it back together....



I love gold for competition guns.

Link Posted: 5/7/2019 5:22:49 PM EDT
[#1]
In for live fire report.

Thanks for the review.
Link Posted: 5/7/2019 5:24:06 PM EDT
[#2]
It looks like a stupid design. The last thing I want is a smaller window.
Link Posted: 5/7/2019 5:30:04 PM EDT
[#3]
Subscribed for updates.
Link Posted: 5/7/2019 5:33:43 PM EDT
[#4]
Put some rounds through it and let us know how you like it.

Are you fishing for the dot or does it present pretty natural?
Link Posted: 5/7/2019 5:55:46 PM EDT
[#5]
Old school tag
Link Posted: 5/7/2019 6:29:57 PM EDT
[#6]
The picture of the view through the optic doesn't seem to be loading.
Link Posted: 5/7/2019 7:07:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The picture of the view through the optic doesn't seem to be loading.
View Quote
I noticed that too
Link Posted: 5/8/2019 2:49:45 AM EDT
[#8]
Thanks for starting this thread OP.  I’ll be standing by to follow your results, impressions, pics, etc.
Link Posted: 5/8/2019 7:30:57 AM EDT
[#9]
C'mon fellas.... give me a minute.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I noticed that too
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I noticed that too
  @ScoutH57   RIF - "I tried for about 5 minutes to get a decent sight picture view, and I had no joy. I will be removing the fiber optic rod to start practicing with this optic, and I will try my best to get some decent pics looking through the optic."

Quoted:
The picture of the view through the optic doesn't seem to be loading.
@Postal0311   RIF - "I tried for about 5 minutes to get a decent sight picture view, and I had no joy. I will be removing the fiber optic rod to start practicing with this optic, and I will try my best to get some decent pics looking through the optic."
Link Posted: 5/8/2019 7:40:59 AM EDT
[#10]
Love the thin base. But that window needs to be two or 2.5 times as large.
Link Posted: 5/8/2019 7:45:59 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It looks like a stupid design. The last thing I want is a smaller window.
View Quote
The idea is to get the dot lower, where shooters are naturally used to finding the front sight.  I really want to try one.
Link Posted: 5/8/2019 7:56:35 AM EDT
[#12]
Old-school taggity for more info, especially the range report.
Link Posted: 5/8/2019 8:38:21 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
C'mon fellas.... give me a minute.

  @ScoutH57   RIF - "I tried for about 5 minutes to get a decent sight picture view, and I had no joy. I will be removing the fiber optic rod to start practicing with this optic, and I will try my best to get some decent pics looking through the optic."

@Postal0311   RIF - "I tried for about 5 minutes to get a decent sight picture view, and I had no joy. I will be removing the fiber optic rod to start practicing with this optic, and I will try my best to get some decent pics looking through the optic."
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
C'mon fellas.... give me a minute.

Quoted:

I noticed that too
  @ScoutH57   RIF - "I tried for about 5 minutes to get a decent sight picture view, and I had no joy. I will be removing the fiber optic rod to start practicing with this optic, and I will try my best to get some decent pics looking through the optic."

Quoted:
The picture of the view through the optic doesn't seem to be loading.
@Postal0311   RIF - "I tried for about 5 minutes to get a decent sight picture view, and I had no joy. I will be removing the fiber optic rod to start practicing with this optic, and I will try my best to get some decent pics looking through the optic."
I imagine it is pretty hard to get the camera just right behind it. I'm really curious how that thing will work in practice. I'm a long time RMR user
Link Posted: 5/8/2019 7:56:14 PM EDT
[#14]
BTT.... new pics added.

Will shoot Saturday and compare with RMR and DPP.  
Link Posted: 5/8/2019 8:02:04 PM EDT
[#15]
Neat.

I’d like to shoot one, and especially on something with no irons in the way.

Pop-up BUIS for handguns may not be too far off!  
Link Posted: 5/8/2019 8:36:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Neat.

I'd like to shoot one, and especially on something with no irons in the way.

Pop-up BUIS for handguns may not be too far off!  
View Quote
Pistol buis you say?

https://www.wingtactical.com/firearm-parts/handgun/handgun-sights/dead-air-kns-precision-switchsight-folding-sights-for-glock/#&gid=1&pid=4

Link Posted: 5/8/2019 8:58:07 PM EDT
[#17]
Thank you for the through optic pics.
Link Posted: 5/9/2019 9:45:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thank you for the through optic pics.
View Quote
Thanks OP
Link Posted: 5/9/2019 2:21:07 PM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Thanks OP
View Quote
Link Posted: 5/9/2019 2:25:44 PM EDT
[#20]
Certainly looks innovative, compact, and neat, but I’m definitely on the “I want a bigger window” side of the spectrum
Link Posted: 5/9/2019 2:39:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Certainly looks innovative, compact, and neat, but I’m definitely on the “I want a bigger window” side of the spectrum
View Quote
You don’t need a big window if it’s where you’re already looking.  

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 5/9/2019 2:53:55 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

You don't need a big window if it's where you're already looking.  

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/221679/A0D564C6-D4B8-4540-B6C7-F9A80703AFC7_jpeg-939673.JPG
View Quote
I think that is the general idea here. This isn't being marketed at gun gamers, but for carry/concealment. I suspect a bigger window allows more leeway to pick the dot back up in recoil, so I would guess the larger optics would be incrementally faster and easier to shoot (at speed).

I kept hoping we would see something like this come out for the MOS plate systems (eliminate the "middle man" of the adapter plate, and get it low enough to use standard sights)... thought I would personally like to see a slightly taller window. Maybe we will see more options like this in the future.

I don't remember if it has been covered, but is the emitter enclosed?
Link Posted: 5/9/2019 5:38:18 PM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I suspect a bigger window allows more leeway to pick the dot back up in recoil, so I would guess the larger optics would be incrementally faster and easier to shoot (at speed).
View Quote
Probably, but for most experienced iron sight handgun shooters, the low window will be faster out of the holster, without the “retraining” required to get a good fast “draw stroke sight picture” with a bigger optic.

I just use myself as my experimental sample.  I love the dot for hitting small targets, distant targets, moving targets small distant moving targets on the clock.  It’s awesome.  But for “A zone” hits inside of 7 yards I’m faster with irons.  Muscle memory, yo.  As distance increases (or target size decreases), there’s a noticeable “changeover” to where I can hit faster with the dot.

What I’m hoping for with a setup like this one is to combine my muscle-memory-based up close iron speed (because the dot is the place I’m already looking) with the precision and distance speed of the dot(because it’s a dot).  If it works I’ll have to come up with all new excuses for sucking.  
Link Posted: 5/10/2019 1:50:34 PM EDT
[#24]
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/05/10/noblex-docter-optics-glock/

Much thanks to the OP for allowing me to use his images.
Link Posted: 5/11/2019 5:49:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Op... what’s the battery life?
Link Posted: 5/11/2019 5:56:09 PM EDT
[#26]
We have been looking at these at work for a few weeks. Awesome to see pics of it on something.

Excited to see the range report.

Awesome stuff!

Also jealous.
Link Posted: 5/12/2019 2:10:26 AM EDT
[#27]
Very cool. I looked and they don’t say if the lenses are plastic or glass?
Link Posted: 5/12/2019 2:21:12 AM EDT
[#28]
Seems like the learning curve would be negligible with this style.  I'm interested
Link Posted: 5/12/2019 10:19:29 PM EDT
[#29]
Quick update in the OP with comparison pics.  Will post more thoughts and answer questions later.  Thanks all.

@goloud
@JoshAston
Link Posted: 5/12/2019 10:31:24 PM EDT
[#30]
Good Lord the comparison pics really put it into perspective on how small it is
Link Posted: 5/12/2019 10:38:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Link Posted: 5/12/2019 11:21:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Wow teeny tiny. I bet it's hard to pick up the dot.
View Quote
might actually be EASIER.......but have to play with one to be sure......
Link Posted: 5/12/2019 11:48:16 PM EDT
[#33]
Yeah it’s tiny, but it also sits low as shit. The entire optic is over before the DPP’s window even starts. This thing is awesome for two reasons: 1. It’s tiny and potentially great for subcompact-ish carry pieces and 2. It allows one to keep using their regular height sights.

I’m happy with my RMR setups on my Glock 19 and 34, but I’d be interested if I could one day make this work on my smaller 365.
Link Posted: 5/13/2019 8:01:37 AM EDT
[#34]
AM bump, added a few thoughts that were fresh on my mind.
Link Posted: 5/13/2019 8:10:49 AM EDT
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I think that is the general idea here. This isn't being marketed at gun gamers, but for carry/concealment. I suspect a bigger window allows more leeway to pick the dot back up in recoil, so I would guess the larger optics would be incrementally faster and easier to shoot (at speed).

I kept hoping we would see something like this come out for the MOS plate systems (eliminate the "middle man" of the adapter plate, and get it low enough to use standard sights)... thought I would personally like to see a slightly taller window. Maybe we will see more options like this in the future.

I don't remember if it has been covered, but is the emitter enclosed?
View Quote
The emitter is enclosed (sandwiched) between two layers of glass.'

RE: Recoil.  I loaded 5-10 rounds at a time between the Docter and RMR and switched between each gun running the same drills.  If a person's fundamentals (presentation, grip, and recoil control) are solid then there isn't much "hunting of the dot" to speak of.
Link Posted: 5/13/2019 8:12:12 AM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Probably, but for most experienced iron sight handgun shooters, the low window will be faster out of the holster, without the “retraining” required to get a good fast “draw stroke sight picture” with a bigger optic.

I just use myself as my experimental sample.  I love the dot for hitting small targets, distant targets, moving targets small distant moving targets on the clock.  It’s awesome.  But for “A zone” hits inside of 7 yards I’m faster with irons.  Muscle memory, yo.  As distance increases (or target size decreases), there’s a noticeable “changeover” to where I can hit faster with the dot.

What I’m hoping for with a setup like this one is to combine my muscle-memory-based up close iron speed (because the dot is the place I’m already looking) with the precision and distance speed of the dot(because it’s a dot).  If it works I’ll have to come up with all new excuses for sucking.  
View Quote
You get it, thanks.
Link Posted: 5/13/2019 8:13:39 AM EDT
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Op... what’s the battery life?
View Quote
Sorry my friend, but I have no clue yet.  I imagine Docter/Noblex doesn't really know either.  The dot is auto-adjust to conditions and it turns off after no movement for 5 or 10 minutes.  I think it would be hard for me to test the battery life.  I know this, whenever this battery dies I'll report back, lol.
Link Posted: 5/13/2019 8:15:15 AM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
We have been looking at these at work for a few weeks. Awesome to see pics of it on something.

Excited to see the range report.

Awesome stuff!

Also jealous.
View Quote
Cool, where do you work?

Don't be jealous, come on up to SWVA and we'll hit the range.
Link Posted: 5/13/2019 8:39:07 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
I'm really not keen on doing a true torture test; but if it holds up to regular training and practice, and the battery life is decent then I'm going to view this optic as a success for me personally.
View Quote
First off: Thank you very much for all the helpful info and impressions you’ve posted so far!

Second:  I wouldn’t worry too much about the torture test part.  I’d be willing to bet Aaron Cowan at Sage Dynamics will be all over that portion of testing this sight.  If he’s already aware of it’s existence (?), it is very likely that he already has, or has ordered, one.  He’ll beat the bejeebus out of it and we’ll get to see what happens.
Link Posted: 5/13/2019 9:35:54 AM EDT
[#40]
Thanks, now I have to get a MOS Glock.  Had been putting it off, because I didn't want to run around with giant sights to co-witness or do something ridiculous like remove my RDS to change the battery.

Simple genius, with the obvious popularity of Glock pistols, to make a red dot sight that attaches directly to the Glock MOS slide.  Allows it to sit lower than competitors and does not require milling that results in a permanent footprint for a specific RDS only.
Link Posted: 5/13/2019 10:07:37 AM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

You don’t need a big window if it’s where you’re already looking.  

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/221679/A0D564C6-D4B8-4540-B6C7-F9A80703AFC7_jpeg-939673.JPG
View Quote
Window size matters when you’re doing everything other than shooting slowly under benign conditions on a square bay.

As far as this optic? Hard pass.
Link Posted: 5/13/2019 10:08:52 AM EDT
[#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

First off: Thank you very much for all the helpful info and impressions you’ve posted so far!

Second:  I wouldn’t worry too much about the torture test part.  I’d be willing to bet Aaron Cowan at Sage Dynamics will be all over that portion of testing this sight.  If he’s already aware of it’s existence (?), it is very likely that he already has, or has ordered, one.  He’ll beat the bejeebus out of it and we’ll get to see what happens.
View Quote
You're welcome!  I was pretty pumped about this optic once I saw it posted by another member here in the other thread.  I made a mission to seek it out and get one in my hands ASAP, lol.

I sure hope Aaron does a review.  He has a lot more rounds down range through an RDS than I do, so I'm curious to hear his thoughts on it.  The 500 round burn down and drop tests will be interesting.
Link Posted: 5/13/2019 10:12:09 AM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Thanks, now I have to get a MOS Glock.  Had been putting it off, because I didn't want to run around with giant sights to co-witness or do something ridiculous like remove my RDS to change the battery.

Simple genius, with the obvious popularity of Glock pistols, to make a red dot sight that attaches directly to the Glock MOS slide.  Allows it to sit lower than competitors and does not require milling that results in a permanent footprint for a specific RDS only.
View Quote
You're welcome, haha.  Never a bad day to pick up a new blaster!

I agree, the MOS may not be perfect but it will be prolific.  Optic companies would be wise to design around it.  The Noblex/Docter isn't perfect either, but it's headed in the right direction on a few fronts.

I'd like to see a new version be an 1/8" or so taller (roughly 30% or so) and if they can move the battery to the front and the optic window to the rear that would be swell.

For now, I'm gonna use this optic as it was intended and see what happens.
Link Posted: 5/13/2019 10:17:41 AM EDT
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The idea is to get the dot lower, where shooters are naturally used to finding the front sight.  I really want to try one.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
It looks like a stupid design. The last thing I want is a smaller window.
The idea is to get the dot lower, where shooters are naturally used to finding the front sight.  I really want to try one.
...There is no window...

Oooooohhhhhhmmmmm
Link Posted: 5/13/2019 11:20:30 AM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/05/10/noblex-docter-optics-glock/

Much thanks to the OP for allowing me to use his images.
View Quote
Good stuff as usual.

I'm surprised they went with the raised lettering given it increased the upper border thickness.
Link Posted: 5/13/2019 11:24:45 AM EDT
[#46]
This would be perfect with the 43/43x/48 if it would fit. I'd drop the coin and be a guinea pig.
Link Posted: 5/14/2019 9:41:13 AM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
This would be perfect with the 43/43x/48 if it would fit. I'd drop the coin and be a guinea pig.
View Quote
In it's current form it would hang over the edges, also I'm not sure if an MOS spec cut (length and depth wise) would work on the 43 size pistols....

You can try!
Link Posted: 5/14/2019 11:14:15 AM EDT
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

In it's current form it would hang over the edges, also I'm not sure if an MOS spec cut (length and depth wise) would work on the 43 size pistols....

You can try!
View Quote
That’s what I meant by if it would fit. The shield RMS is the only one that fits flush now I think. This would be a good size optic if it would.
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 10:29:20 AM EDT
[#49]
Any updates?  I can see this as being a good CCW RDS option.  The window size is fine for this purpose in my opinion.
Link Posted: 6/1/2019 11:18:11 AM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

might actually be EASIER.......but have to play with one to be sure......
View Quote
Wut?

No.
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