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Posted: 8/20/2004 12:04:39 PM EST
Anyone able to link the video of the hotdog pilot who drove his B52 into the runway a while back?

Was hopeing to show it to my dad. If ya got a link id be greatfull.

Thanks
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 12:07:58 PM EST


Are you talking about this one? I don't have a video but I have this pic.

This asshole thought he was the shit, and killed not only himself but his crew and the wing commander. We lost some good people that day.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 12:09:17 PM EST
Try military.com
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 12:14:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 12:29:29 PM EST by operatorerror]
Google works.

airextreme.deB-52dwn .avi

airside.paradise.net.nz/vide...0bomber%202.wmv

well google may work, but apparently my url linking skills do not

Awww screw it, I give up. The eBaum one is the one I tried to link to.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 12:18:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By wedge1082:
img7.exs.cx/img7/2932/HCRASH.jpg

Are you talking about this one? I don't have a video but I have this pic.

This asshole thought he was the shit, and killed not only himself but his crew and the wing commander. We lost some good people that day.



I've seen that video before. Does anyone know the story behind it ?
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 12:22:51 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 12:36:25 PM EST by Epsilon]
airside.paradise.net.nz/video/B52%20bomber%202.wmv

Damn thats sad. Dumb ass pilot.

Linked fixed.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 12:38:10 PM EST
link fixed.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 12:45:42 PM EST

Originally Posted By TexasEd:

Originally Posted By wedge1082:
img7.exs.cx/img7/2932/HCRASH.jpg

Are you talking about this one? I don't have a video but I have this pic.

This asshole thought he was the shit, and killed not only himself but his crew and the wing commander. We lost some good people that day.



I've seen that video before. Does anyone know the story behind it ?



I only know bits and pieces from what my Dad has told me. He had heard about this guy several months before the crash. He just sort of had a fighter pilot mentality, but flew b-52's. He would always push the air plane into doing things that the Buff was never meant to do. I think that the co-pilot mentioned in the video was the wing commander of the base. This asshole just thought he could do anything and this is how it ended up.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 12:49:44 PM EST

Originally Posted By wedge1082:

Originally Posted By TexasEd:

Originally Posted By wedge1082:
img7.exs.cx/img7/2932/HCRASH.jpg

Are you talking about this one? I don't have a video but I have this pic.

This asshole thought he was the shit, and killed not only himself but his crew and the wing commander. We lost some good people that day.



I've seen that video before. Does anyone know the story behind it ?



I only know bits and pieces from what my Dad has told me. He had heard about this guy several months before the crash. He just sort of had a fighter pilot mentality, but flew b-52's. He would always push the air plane into doing things that the Buff was never meant to do. I think that the co-pilot mentioned in the video was the wing commander of the base. This asshole just thought he could do anything and this is how it ended up.



I hope he wasn't given any funeral with honors. That last display was the dumbest thing I've ever seen. That plane is just to heavy and slow to be able to make that turn without lift and without altitude. That's disgusting.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 10:54:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/20/2004 10:57:58 PM EST by lonegunman]
I actually crew chiefed that plane at one time. I was about six months out of the service and watched that on the news the day it happened. I also rode along on an airshow prep flight with the guy, if he didnt kill you it was an amazing ride. He was pretty nice and routinely flew B-52 airshow routines at the edge of the performance. Nobody ever seemed to get to upset, he was requested at airshows and as I recall a lot of top brass knew about it. I think they figured he would retire soon and it would be done with it they avoided reigning him in.

A B-52 is not the slow pig most people think it is, with a light fuel load, 35,000 pounds, and no extra crap a B-52 has a lot of performance. An H-model has over 170,000 pounds of thrust and with a take-off weight of around 210,000 pounds it has a solid power to weight ratio similar to early jet fighters. The size of the plane is deceptive, it has a max take-off of 488K. A pylon of cruise missles weighs as much as an F-16. Without weapons and with min fuel it has plenty of power, it just does not have the ability to maneuver like a fighter.

I read a report about the incident, it said that most of the younger crewmen refused to fly with him and he had three other top guys on the plane with him when it crashed. It was a strange time in the post-SAC period, bombers where moving to their new bases, command structure was fucked up, a lot of old cold warriors were retiring, units were realigning almost daily. When I got out, I out processed with an entire command structure that did not even know my name. I was kinda sad, they just signed off the sheet and stared at me with nothing to say.

As a reward for 10 years hard work they tried to write me a slam EPR. The reasoning was typical of the time, giving me a three(really shitty score) would make the padded fives they gave themselves look fair. By screwing over guys leaving on the drawdown, they hoped it made the overall EPR system look fair, guys got bad ones and guys got good ones, only all the bad ones were attached to guys that got out. It also made it easier to justify not giving anyone an award or dec.
Link Posted: 8/20/2004 11:16:21 PM EST
So, you want to see a video of military personnel getting killed?
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 12:03:32 AM EST
I know some guys who flew with this fella. Here's what they told me about him:

As far as a pilot, he was evidently a damn good one who could do amazing things in jets. But the problem, he may have been just a bit too good and no doubt overconfident. He was considered to be a hotdog by pretty much everyone in his wing. That is why the wing commander himself was sitting in the co-pilot seat that day. He would not let any of his other guys fly with him during this airshow.

The crash took place prior to the airshow during a practice run. When he started that tight turn, he allowed the plane to bank too hard. With the plane rolled to the side and the wings vertical to the ground, it just started losing lift. He just didn't have the altitude needed to recover before nosing into the ground. The worst part of that damn video is seeing the hatch over the co-pilots seat fly off. You have to look close to see it, but you can make it out. He attempted to eject, but the sequence wasn't fast enough to punch him out before impact.

The question I must ask as well as the question many of the crewmembers who knew this guy asked was why such a hotdog was not dealt with and allowed to fly, even when his superiors knew he has a danger? I guess we may never know. It's just sad.

-CH
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 12:07:32 AM EST
The MP (mishap pilot) was a stupid motherfucker who killed a lot of good people.

This should piss you off....
s92270093.onlinehome.us/crmdevel/resources/paper/darkblue/darkblue.htm

Selected excerpts:

On the 24th of June 1994, Czar 52, a B-52H assigned to the 325th Bomb Squadron, 92d Bomb Wing, Fairchild Air Force Base, WA, launched at approximate 1358 hours Pacific Daylight Time (PDT), to practice maneuvers for an upcoming airshow. The aircrew had the planned and briefed a profile, through the Wing Commander level, that grossly exceeded aircraft and regulatory limitations. Upon preparing to land at the end of the practice airshow profile, the crew was required to execute a "go-around" or missed approach because of another aircraft on the runway. At mid-field, Czar 52 began a tight 360 degree left turn around the control tower at only 250 feet altitude above ground level (AGL). Approximately three quarters of the way through the turn, the aircraft banked past 90 degrees, stalled, clipped a power line with the left wing and crashed. Impact occurred at approximately 1416 hours PDT. There were no survivors out of a crew of four field grade officers. 3

Killed in the crash were Lt Col Arthur "Bud" Holland, the Chief of the 92d Bomb Wing Standardization and Evaluation branch. Lt Col Holland, an instructor pilot, was designated as the aircraft commander and was undoubtedly flying the aircraft at the time of the accident. 4 The copilot was Lt Col Mark McGeehan, also an instructor pilot and the 325th Bomb Squadron (BMS) Commander. There is a great deal of evidence that suggests considerable animosity existed between the two pilots who were at the controls of Czar 52..

This was a result of Lt Col McGeehan's unsuccessful efforts to have Bud Holland "grounded" for what he perceived as numerous and flagrant violations of air discipline while flying with 325th BMS aircrews. Colonel Robert Wolff was the Vice Wing Commander and was added to the flying schedule as a safety observer by Col Brooks, the Wing Commander, on the morning of the mishap. This was to be Col Wolff's "fini flight," an Air Force tradition where an aviator is hosed down following his last flight in an aircraft. Upon landing, Col Wolff was to be met on the flightline by his wife and friends for a champagne toast to a successful flying career. The radar navigator position was filled by Lt Col Ken Huston, the 325th BMS Operations Officer.

While all aircraft accidents that result in loss of life are tragic, those that could have been prevented are especially so. The crash of Czar 52 was primarily the result of actions taken by a singularly outstanding "stick and rudder pilot," but one who, ironically, practiced incredibly poor airmanship. The distinction between these two similar sounding roles will be made clear as we progress in this analysis. Of equal or greater significance, was the fact that supervision and leadership facilitated the accident through failed policies of selective enforcement of regulations, as well as failing to heed the desperate warning signals raised by peers and subordinates over a period of three years prior to the accident. At the time of the accident, there was considerable evidence of Lt Col Holland's poor airmanship spanning a period of over three years.

Situation Six: Yakima Bombing Range
10 March 1994

Lt Col Holland was the aircraft commander on a single ship mission to the Yakima Bombing Range to drop practice munitions and provide an authorized photographer an opportunity to shoot pictures of the B-52 from the ground as it conducted its bomb runs. Lt Col Holland flew the aircraft well below the established 500 foot minimum altitude for the low level training route. In fact, one crossover was photographed at less than 30 feet, and another crewmember estimated that the final ridgeline crossover was "somewhere in the neighborhood of about three feet" (emphasis added) above the ground, and that the aircraft would have impacted the ridge if he had not intervened and pulled back on the yoke to increase the aircraft's altitude. The photographers stopped filming because "they thought we were going to impact . . . and they were ducking out of the way." 50 Lt Col Holland also joined an unbriefed formation of A-10 fighter aircraft to accomplish a flyby over the photographer. This mission violated ACC Regulations regarding minimum altitudes, FAR Part 91 and Air Force Regulation (AFR) 60-16, regarding overflight of people on the ground. There were several occasions during the flight where other crewmembers verbally voiced their opposition to the actions being taken by Lt Col Holland. Following the flight, these same crewmembers went up the squadron chain of command with their story and stated they would not fly with Lt Col Holland again.

The Followers
During the flight, crewmembers strongly verbalized their concerns about the violations of air discipline and regulations. At one point, Lt Col Holland reportedly called the radar navigator "a pussy" when he would not violate regulations and open the bomb doors for a photograph with live weapons on board. On another occasion, following a low crossover, the navigator told Lt Col Holland that the altitudes he was flying was "senseless." 51

**But the real hero on this flight was Capt Eric Jones, a B-52 instructor pilot who found himself in the copilot seat with Lt Col Holland during the low level portion of the flight. On this day, it would take all of his considerable skills, wits, and guile, to bring the aircraft safely back to Fairchild. After realizing that merely telling Lt Col Holland that he was violating regulations and that he (Capt Jones) was uncomfortable with that, was not going to work, Capt Jones feigned illness to get a momentary climb to a higher altitude. Capt Jones also said he needed training and flew a few more passes. But in the end it was once again Lt Col Holland at the controls. The following is Capt Jones recollection of the events that took place then:

We came around and (Lt) Col Holland took us down to 50 feet. I told him that this was well below the clearance plane and that we needed to climb. He ignored me. I told him (again) as we approached the ridge line. I told him in three quick bursts 'climb-climb-climb.' . . I didn't see any clearance that we were going to clear the top of that mountain ... It appeared to me that he had target fixation. I said 'climb-climb-climb.' again, he did not do it. I grabbed ahold of the yoke and I pulled it back pretty abruptly ... I'd estimate we had a cross over around 15 feet . . . The radar navigator and the navigator were verbally yelling or screaming, reprimanding (Lt) Col Holland and saying that there was no need to fly that low ... his reaction to that input was he was laughing--I mean a good belly laugh. 52

Following the low level portion of the mission at the Yakima Range, the crew was scheduled to fly another low level at a different route. Capt Jones convinced Lt Col Holland that the other copilot on the flight needed some training. When Lt Hollis climbed in the seat with Capt Jones (replacing Lt Col Holland at the other set of controls) Capt Jones "told Lt Hollis that he was not to get out of the seat again, (even if ) Col Holland ordered him to." 53

Upon returning from the mission, the crewmembers discussed the events among themselves and came to the conclusion that they would not fly with Lt Col Holland again. Capt Jones reports, "I vowed to them that never again would they or myself be subjected to fly with him. That if it required it, I would be willing to fall on my sword to ensure that didn't happen." The next day, Captain Jones reported the events to Major Don Thompson, the squadron operations officer stating "I did not ever want to fly with Lt Col Holland again, even if it meant that I couldn't fly anymore as an Air Force pilot." 54 Major Thompson told Captain Jones that he didn't think it would come to that, because he "was joining a group of pilots in the squadron who had also made the same statement." 55

Link Posted: 8/21/2004 12:10:49 AM EST
There's still a dent in the ground where that big bitch hit.
sad, really sad...

Dg84
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 12:16:39 AM EST
I didn't realize that thing was on the web. I read it last year after I found it in an office on base. As a mechanic you don't deal with pilot shit and drama, but nobody EVER objected to his flying, even when he damaged planes by overspeeding flaps or popping rivets.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 12:20:34 AM EST
My gosh. What a waste. And a stupid waste at that. It's bad enough to lose someone on a combat mission, but flying with a guy like this would be far more dangerous than combat. I thinkI would take a pilot with average skills and sufficient brains over a hotdog with exceptional skills but an arrogant attitude any damn day of the week.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 12:26:59 AM EST
Thats not the half of it, the same week that happened a deranged idiot went thru the base hospital and shot about 30 people, the place was really a mess.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 9:54:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By lonegunman:
Thats not the half of it, the same week that happened a deranged idiot went thru the base hospital and shot about 30 people, the place was really a mess.



Oh yeah... I remember hearing about that. Didn’t the SP make an unbelievable shit to the melon from like 70 yards with his M9?
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 3:36:19 PM EST
Yes, the SF guy peddled up on his bike patrol bike and confronted Melburg. Melburg refused to drop his weapon and headed for the cop. He dropped to a knee and started shooting from 70 yds or so. He fired a miss, shoulder hit and third shot was the charm, right thru thru the face, killing Melburg instantly. He got a stripe and an Airmans Medal.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 4:13:47 PM EST
Tag.
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 4:18:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By doorgunner84:

Originally Posted By lonegunman:
Thats not the half of it, the same week that happened a deranged idiot went thru the base hospital and shot about 30 people, the place was really a mess.



Oh yeah... I remember hearing about that. Didn’t the SP make an unbelievable shit to the melon from like 70 yards with his M9?



That was one amazing shit!
Link Posted: 8/21/2004 5:11:59 PM EST
damn
Link Posted: 8/22/2004 12:33:10 AM EST
does anyone know anything about a B52 crash in MI approx 15yrs ago? i have a cousin that was a mechanic on them there (marquette?) when it happened. he doesn't live close enough for me to ask about it.
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