Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page / 5
Link Posted: 10/14/2022 12:04:34 PM EST
[#1]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By badredfish:
@Bazmancrash

did that court ruling the other day help you?


Ban on guns with serial numbers removed is unconstitutional -U.S. judge

https://www.reuters.com/legal/ban-guns-with-serial-numbers-removed-is-unconstitutional-us-judge-2022-10-13/



Red
View Quote


Would that help if it’s a circuit court ruling for a difficult district ( 4th vs 8th)?
Link Posted: 10/14/2022 12:28:18 PM EST
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By badredfish:
@Bazmancrash

did that court ruling the other day help you?


Ban on guns with serial numbers removed is unconstitutional -U.S. judge

https://www.reuters.com/legal/ban-guns-with-serial-numbers-removed-is-unconstitutional-us-judge-2022-10-13/



Red
View Quote



OP can't post from his jail cell.
Link Posted: 10/14/2022 12:34:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: PepePewPew] [#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By badredfish:
@Bazmancrash

did that court ruling the other day help you?


Ban on guns with serial numbers removed is unconstitutional -U.S. judge

https://www.reuters.com/legal/ban-guns-with-serial-numbers-removed-is-unconstitutional-us-judge-2022-10-13/

Red
View Quote



He could use it as a reference, but since he doesn't live in the Southern District of West Virginia it's not controlling precedent.
But it's hard to argue that the law as applied to you isn't Constitutional when the law as written doesn't even apply to you.
If Bruce Schroeder from the Rittenhouse trial was your judge, you could walk in without an attorney, say "that's NOT what the law says", the judge would pull out his law book, and three minutes later he would say "Dismissed. GTFO of here".
Link Posted: 10/14/2022 2:21:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: JCoop] [#4]
Link Posted: 10/14/2022 4:01:39 PM EST
[#5]
The fact that he said the serial number came up in a crime I would have started to laugh……..really?  So you have the gun that was used In The crime?  Wtf lol…….also why did you not tell him he ran the model number?   This is weird.
Link Posted: 10/17/2022 7:43:30 AM EST
[#6]
Well I'm still free.

According to the DAs office they told me attorney this.

We gathered here and are looking at an unusual amount of these cases so we are going to drop the charge because of the volume and it was siezed prior to the "federal loophole" closing in August, but you will not get your firearm back because if we have it back we'd have to charge you with the same crime.

*My first response was isn't that double Jeopardy?*

I assume the federal loophole they are referring to is the ATF 2021R-05F?

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/definition-frame-or-receiver

I pulled this directly from the training document on that page and sent it back. This is becoming asanine.



**********
Page 1

"The Final Rule does not:
• Change the “part” of firearms previously classified as the “frame or receiver;”
• Prohibit individuals from making firearms for personal use."

And Page 9

The Final Rule does:
• Amend 27 CFR 447.11 and 478.11 to define a firearm made by a nonlicensee without a serial number as a “Privately Made Firearm” (“PMF”);

The Final Rule does not:
• Prohibit an individual from making their own PMF;
• Mandate unlicensed persons to mark their own PMF;
**********

So I told my lawyer to tell them this.

"You can tell them I want my property back and will provide proof to the court in 30 days it has been serialized (which I'm still not required to do (609.667 does not address "PMF"s and 609.667(3) is unconstitutional in nature and should be struck down) but to just appease these so called educated folk), or I'll see the Judge about it."



Link Posted: 10/17/2022 7:48:19 AM EST
[#7]
Some good news, some bad.

Good luck, OP. I hope you keep us posted.

That's some bullshit.
Link Posted: 10/17/2022 8:21:18 AM EST
[#8]
Well, it's a start. I hope you get your gun back.
Link Posted: 10/17/2022 8:59:55 AM EST
[#9]
Not double jeopardy.  Double jeopardy is when you have been declared innocent and they come after you again.  Your charges probably have been dropped with prejudice which means they can come back after you if they change their minds.  Note: IANAL
Link Posted: 10/17/2022 9:36:15 AM EST
[#10]
The firearm can't be in two places at the same time...if there is another pistol with the same number STILL IN POLICE CUSTODY, it would be obvious that an error occurred somewhere.  I wonder if the police or DA in the other jurisdiction ever realized that they recorded the model number, not the serial number.

A letter from the manufacturer stating that the police recorded the model number, not the serial number may be helpful.
Link Posted: 10/17/2022 9:41:18 AM EST
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Genin:

A letter from the manufacturer stating that the police recorded the model number, not the serial number may be helpful.
View Quote


Not sure the court will give that letter much weight when the manufacturer is also the accused.
Link Posted: 10/17/2022 9:53:59 AM EST
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Genin:
The firearm can't be in two places at the same time...if there is another pistol with the same number STILL IN POLICE CUSTODY, it would be obvious that an error occurred somewhere.  I wonder if the police or DA in the other jurisdiction ever realized that they recorded the model number, not the serial number.

A letter from the manufacturer stating that the police recorded the model number, not the serial number may be helpful.
View Quote


It's on a audio recording, I asked him if he ran PF940CL as a S/N and he said yes. I then told him that was the model #.
Link Posted: 10/17/2022 9:59:39 AM EST
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By shortround:
Your charges probably have been dropped with prejudice which means they can come back after you if they change their minds.  Note: IANAL
View Quote
"Dismissed with prejudice" would mean the prosecutor cannot take further action on that case with that court (so it would be good for the defendant).
Link Posted: 10/17/2022 12:24:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: PepePewPew] [#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
"Dismissed with prejudice" would mean the prosecutor cannot take further action on that case with that court (so it would be good for the defendant).
View Quote


If he voluntarily dismisses it, it's without prejudice unless the judge says otherwise.
Motion the judge to say otherwise.

PS. Fuck Thieves.

ETA: OP's now in the position of Dominick Black. He can let ADA Binger take a bullshit $1200 fine (or a P80 build) or he can pay an attorney several times what the prosecutor wants to steal from him and risk going to prison, or he can choose the COC behind door #3.
Needless to say, everybody chooses door #1. But I've long wondered what they'd do if a cancer patient chose door #3.
Link Posted: 10/17/2022 1:42:44 PM EST
[#15]
I'd get it dismissed with prejudice, then fight for your property after they lose the capacity to make you fight for your freedom.
Link Posted: 10/17/2022 6:30:51 PM EST
[#16]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PepePewPew:


If he voluntarily dismisses it, it's without prejudice unless the judge says otherwise.
Motion the judge to say otherwise.

PS. Fuck Thieves.

ETA: OP's now in the position of Dominick Black. He can let ADA Binger take a bullshit $1200 fine (or a P80 build) or he can pay an attorney several times what the prosecutor wants to steal from him and risk going to prison, or he can choose the COC behind door #3.
Needless to say, everybody chooses door #1. But I've long wondered what they'd do if a cancer patient chose door #3.
View Quote


What's COC? Condition of consequences?
Link Posted: 10/17/2022 6:39:07 PM EST
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bazmancrash:


What's COC? Condition of consequences?
View Quote
It must be Chain of Command.
Link Posted: 10/17/2022 7:38:23 PM EST
[#18]
So am I basically fucked.
Link Posted: 10/17/2022 8:54:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: badredfish] [#19]
No you need to start handing out lawsuits - everyone get a lawsuit!!


Red

Ps. Did you see my post above??

ETA - these people did not do their job right and you suffered for it....you need to be paid...

You hired a lawyer - time for him to be earning his keep.
Link Posted: 10/18/2022 6:15:40 AM EST
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bazmancrash:


What's COC? Condition of consequences?
View Quote


I assumed it meant ARFcom COC as in do something illegal to get even.
Not that I am recommending that, just answering question.

Depending how much you already have spent on Lawyers OP, if not too much I would probably walk away from this.
If you're already heavily invested then might as well stick with it till the end.
Link Posted: 10/22/2022 4:05:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: PepePewPew] [#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AR_Dale:


I assumed it meant ARFcom COC as in do something illegal to get even.
Not that I am recommending that, just answering question.

Depending how much you already have spent on Lawyers OP, if not too much I would probably walk away from this.
If you're already heavily invested then might as well stick with it till the end.
View Quote


Yes.
It's a choice.
It's not a good choice, not a choice I'd recommend to anybody, but it's one of several bad options available to somebody faced with unindictable criminals working as prosecutors.
It's a lose/lose situation.

In OP's shoes, I'd take the dismissal, make sure the judge records it as 'with prejudice', and then 30 seconds later sue the crooks to get my gun back.
Link Posted: 10/22/2022 4:19:40 PM EST
[#22]
The running under Bruen makes this patently clear.

Go after em, don't stop.
Link Posted: 10/24/2022 2:53:37 PM EST
[#23]
Following this, and good luck.
Link Posted: 10/25/2022 9:16:18 AM EST
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jos51700:
The running under Bruen makes this patently clear.

Go after em, don't stop.
View Quote

This.

100% this.

Make them pay.

Loss of income, mental anguish, false arrest, legal fees paid, PTSD. Feel free to add onto the list.

Get every penny you can from those bastards.

Maybe they'll think twice before they pull this shit again if they lose enough of the states money.
Link Posted: 10/25/2022 10:08:14 AM EST
[Last Edit: AeroE] [#25]
Link Posted: 10/27/2022 9:51:41 PM EST
[#26]
Most people would say, "thank God they dropped the charges. Fuck that gun, at least I'm not in jail!" They'd cut their losses and move on for fear of pissing off the cops. Big respect to you for not doing that. They stole your shit and you have every right to fight for it back!
Link Posted: 11/1/2022 8:26:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: Bazmancrash] [#27]
UPDATE: Dismissed.... "In the interest of Justice". Is what my paperwork's says. All said I've lost faith in any government or public employee.... Packing up and moving from MN. I appreciate all the help. I'll update with my legal brief once court is settled.
Link Posted: 11/1/2022 8:28:15 PM EST
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bazmancrash:
UPDATE: Dismissed.... "In the interest of Justice". Is what my paperwork's says. All said I've lost faith in any government or public employee.... Packing up and moving from MN. I appreciate all the help. I'll update with my legal breif once court is settled.
View Quote





Are you going to try to recoup lawyer fees?
Link Posted: 11/1/2022 8:48:30 PM EST
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BLKVooDoo:





Are you going to try to recoup lawyer fees?
View Quote


Through this channel and one other someone has reached out to help recoup that and possibly do some damage. Like I said time to move. Call me crazy but I think someone I know on the force, my interrogating detective, who I've had run ins outside of his capacity and on my own terms in the past (him being out of line late at night on family property) was pushing for the charge. He may not remember but I do. Just going to play it out see where things go.
Link Posted: 11/1/2022 9:00:58 PM EST
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bazmancrash:


Through this channel and one other someone has reached out to help recoup that and possibly do some damage. Like I said time to move. Call me crazy but I think someone I know on the force, my interrogating detective, who I've had run ins outside of his capacity and on my own terms in the past (him being out of line late at night on family property) was pushing for the charge. He may not remember but I do. Just going to play it out see where things go.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bazmancrash:
Originally Posted By BLKVooDoo:





Are you going to try to recoup lawyer fees?


Through this channel and one other someone has reached out to help recoup that and possibly do some damage. Like I said time to move. Call me crazy but I think someone I know on the force, my interrogating detective, who I've had run ins outside of his capacity and on my own terms in the past (him being out of line late at night on family property) was pushing for the charge. He may not remember but I do. Just going to play it out see where things go.



Good. glad you have a plan. Are they giving you the pistol back without much hassle?
Link Posted: 11/1/2022 9:38:01 PM EST
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BLKVooDoo:



Good. glad you have a plan. Are they giving you the pistol back without much hassle?
View Quote


Nope. I even tried to low ball asking for my holster, mags, slide and x300 back and that isn't going anywhere I believe.
Link Posted: 11/1/2022 9:58:13 PM EST
[#32]
Link Posted: 11/2/2022 6:01:14 AM EST
[#33]
Someone else here in MN said the Judge offered him 30 days and a drop to a gross misdemeanor.... He's fighting it. Is the legal system this out of control in this country?
Link Posted: 11/2/2022 7:13:35 AM EST
[Last Edit: Bigger_Hammer] [#34]
Sorry to be missing the middle of this epic battle thread.

did you Reach out to Gun Owners of America and / or Firearms Policy Coalition on this?

Really sounds like a textbook case to stuff it up their ass & break it off over the gross abuse of your 2nd Amendment rights.

Glad that charges against you are "dropped" (for now) and Best Wishes in Recovering your Property.

Bigger_Hammer
Link Posted: 11/2/2022 7:31:31 AM EST
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bazmancrash:
UPDATE: Dismissed.... "In the interest of Justice". Is what my paperwork's says. All said I've lost faith in any government or public employee.... Packing up and moving from MN. I appreciate all the help. I'll update with my legal brief once court is settled.
View Quote

Link Posted: 11/2/2022 7:54:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: Intune] [#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bigger_Hammer:
Sorry to be missing the middle of this epic battle thread.

did you Reach out to Gun Owners of America and / or Firearms Policy Coalition on this?

Really sounds like a textbook case to stuff it up their ass & break it off over the gross abuse of your 2nd Amendment rights.

Glad that charges against you are "dropped" (for now) and Best Wishes in Recovering your Property.

Bigger_Hammer
View Quote

I would definitely be trying to cause them legal pain.
Link Posted: 11/2/2022 4:36:41 PM EST
[#37]
Whelp, there's not a whole lot to be said in public on this.

Sounds like they are armed thieves.  Similar to arresting someone and charging them with resisting arrest, without an underlying crime justifying the arrest.

Eventually the armed thieves pick the wrong guy.
Link Posted: 11/3/2022 8:59:24 AM EST
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Intune:

I would definitely be trying to cause them legal, career, and financial pain.
View Quote


FIFY.
Link Posted: 12/24/2022 12:13:11 PM EST
[#39]
Is OP getting his gun back in time for Christmas?
Link Posted: 12/24/2022 12:31:27 PM EST
[#40]
OP, what was the cop's reason for pulling you over in the first place?


(Sorry if it's within the 4 pages, I scanned as best that I could)
Link Posted: 12/24/2022 12:44:16 PM EST
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bazmancrash:


Nope. I even tried to low ball asking for my holster, mags, slide and x300 back and that isn't going anywhere I believe.
View Quote



That’s some BS
Link Posted: 12/25/2022 1:29:40 PM EST
[#42]
man I just found this thread.

I live in Minnesota.

there are a lot of retarded cops in this state that don't know the law.  A lot of them are Fudds.  There are some good ones though.

My recommendation is that you sue the living fuck out of that police / sherrifs department for harassment and for stripping you of your rights.  If you don't they will just continue being retarded to the next poor victim
Link Posted: 2/3/2023 9:07:01 PM EST
[#43]
older thread but i figured id chime in.

i reached out to MN branch of the ATF months ago inquiring about serializing “PMFs” and was told they would send the question to the appropriate person. 2 or 3 follow ups and months later with no answer.
Link Posted: 2/3/2023 10:22:03 PM EST
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By gundealsbrowser:
i reached out to MN branch of the ATF months ago inquiring about serializing "PMFs" and was told they would send the question to the appropriate person. 2 or 3 follow ups and months later with no answer.
View Quote
What is your question?

If you want to register a PMF during the 120 day tax deferment period, you'll need to engrave all the markings that are normally required of Title I & II firearms. Model is optional but you'll need serial, caliber, maker and city, state.
Link Posted: 2/3/2023 10:36:52 PM EST
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott:
Ok now that I'm paying more attention lol. Some dipshit cop in Florida put the model number in as the serial and so did this guy. You might need a lawyer.
View Quote
Here's the 22 of that.
In order to have any kind of number, to enter as a serial number, right or wrong, they would have to HAVE the weapon to get a number from.
So now they have a spare.
Link Posted: 2/7/2023 11:11:05 AM EST
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KitBuilder:
What is your question?

If you want to register a PMF during the 120 day tax deferment period, you'll need to engrave all the markings that are normally required of Title I & II firearms. Model is optional but you'll need serial, caliber, maker and city, state.
View Quote


whether or not “PMF”s like p80s, 3d printed lowers etc need to be serialized, either federally or by state law.

it seems federally its not needed, but based on OPs experience MN state law isnt clear?
Link Posted: 2/8/2023 5:27:18 PM EST
[#47]
well the local ATF field office finally called, they said no need to serialize according to federal law, but could not comment on state law. They referred me to the MN BCA for that.

talked to Katie Booth at the BCA (bureau of criminal apprehension) and she said she has no idea and has no clue who can help answer my question.

doesnt seem like it should be this hard to get an answer.
Link Posted: 2/27/2023 9:18:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: Everrest] [#48]
deleted
Link Posted: 2/27/2023 9:48:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: Everrest] [#49]
deleted
Link Posted: 2/27/2023 9:57:45 AM EST
[#50]
Im confused as to why the last couple posts are in a P80 legal thread?
Page / 5
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top