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Posted: 1/26/2014 11:49:50 AM EDT
Matthew 21

Jesus Curses the Fig Tree

18 In the morning, as [Jesus] was returning to the city, he was hungry.  19 And seeing a fig tree by the wayside he went to it, and found nothing on it but leaves only. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once.



Such petty, childish, vindictive, irrational behavior. The logical course of action would've been to cause the tree to suddenly bear fruit. That way he would not only have demonstrated his power, he would also have been able to sate his hunger.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 12:06:37 PM EDT
Well, when you meet him one day you can tell him what you think of him.

Oh wait, let me guess, you don't believe he even exists right?  So why even post things about things you don't believe exists?

Or are you just trying to push people's buttons?

What if youre wrong and you meet him one day and have to give an account of your words?  

Link Posted: 1/26/2014 3:33:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By stanc:
Matthew 21

Jesus Curses the Fig Tree

18 In the morning, as [Jesus] was returning to the city, he was hungry.  19 And seeing a fig tree by the wayside he went to it, and found nothing on it but leaves only. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once.

Such petty, childish, vindictive, irrational behavior. The logical course of action would've been to cause the tree to suddenly bear fruit. That way he would not only have demonstrated his power, he would also have been able to sate his hunger.
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Hey everybody!  In case you were wondering, an atheist troll has a negative opinion of something in the Bible!

I know that's going to come as news, but it's out there now.  
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 3:46:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2014 4:42:07 PM EDT by Winn]
Originally Posted By stanc:

Matthew 21

Jesus Curses the Fig Tree

18 In the morning, as [Jesus] was returning to the city, he was hungry.  19 And seeing a fig tree by the wayside he went to it, and found nothing on it but leaves only. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once.



Such petty, childish, vindictive, irrational behavior. The logical course of action would've been to cause the tree to suddenly bear fruit. That way he would not only have demonstrated his power, he would also have been able to sate his hunger.
View Quote


You should have specified that's what your "logical" course of action would be.

Beyond that, you completely missed the point of that passage.

Link Posted: 1/26/2014 4:40:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ledslngr:
Well, when you meet him one day you can tell him what you think of him.

Oh wait, let me guess, you don't believe he even exists right?  So why even post things about things you don't believe exists?
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Originally Posted By ledslngr:
Well, when you meet him one day you can tell him what you think of him.

Oh wait, let me guess, you don't believe he even exists right?  So why even post things about things you don't believe exists?

I'm posting about an act described in the Bible, which clearly does exist.
What if youre wrong and you meet him one day and have to give an account of your words?

If he is so irrational as to have actually engaged in an act of vengeance against a fig tree as told in Matthew 21, then I doubt that anything I could say would matter.

So tell me, if you saw someone destroy a tree because it had no fruit when he was hungry, wouldn't you think he was at least a wee bit emotionally disturbed?
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 4:46:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2014 4:46:37 PM EDT by Winn]
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Originally Posted By stanc:

I'm posting about an act described in the Bible, which clearly does exist.

If he is so irrational as to have actually engaged in an act of vengeance against a fig tree as told in Matthew 21, then I doubt that anything I could say would matter.

So tell me, if you saw someone destroy a tree because it had no fruit when he was hungry, wouldn't you think he was at least a wee bit emotionally disturbed?
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Originally Posted By stanc:
Originally Posted By ledslngr:

Well, when you meet him one day you can tell him what you think of him.

Oh wait, let me guess, you don't believe he even exists right?  So why even post things about things you don't believe exists?

I'm posting about an act described in the Bible, which clearly does exist.
What if youre wrong and you meet him one day and have to give an account of your words?

If he is so irrational as to have actually engaged in an act of vengeance against a fig tree as told in Matthew 21, then I doubt that anything I could say would matter.

So tell me, if you saw someone destroy a tree because it had no fruit when he was hungry, wouldn't you think he was at least a wee bit emotionally disturbed?



Willful ignorance?  Trolling?

Which is it?

Link Posted: 1/26/2014 4:50:31 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Winn:
You should have specified that's what your "logical" course of action.

Beyond that, you completely missed the point of that passage.
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Please enlighten me -- just what is the point of him killing the tree because it had no figs???
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 4:54:49 PM EDT
OP is from CA. Move along.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 4:56:29 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Winn:



Willful ignorance?  Trolling?

Which is it?
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Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By stanc:
Originally Posted By ledslngr:

Well, when you meet him one day you can tell him what you think of him.

Oh wait, let me guess, you don't believe he even exists right?  So why even post things about things you don't believe exists?

I'm posting about an act described in the Bible, which clearly does exist.
What if youre wrong and you meet him one day and have to give an account of your words?

If he is so irrational as to have actually engaged in an act of vengeance against a fig tree as told in Matthew 21, then I doubt that anything I could say would matter.

So tell me, if you saw someone destroy a tree because it had no fruit when he was hungry, wouldn't you think he was at least a wee bit emotionally disturbed?



Willful ignorance?  Trolling?

Which is it?

You didn't answer my question.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 4:58:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2014 4:59:10 PM EDT by Winn]
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Originally Posted By stanc:

Please enlighten me -- just what is the point of him killing the tree because it had no figs???
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Originally Posted By stanc:
Originally Posted By Winn:

You should have specified that's what your "logical" course of action.

Beyond that, you completely missed the point of that passage.

Please enlighten me -- just what is the point of him killing the tree because it had no figs???


First, let me ask you ...

Have you done anything - at all - to try to understand what's being spoken about there, or did you just stumble upon a couple of isolated verses and then start complaining about them because they don't seem to fit into "your logic"?

Link Posted: 1/26/2014 4:59:36 PM EDT
Tragedy of the commons.

He wasn't punishing the tree, but the looters that had stripped it of fruit.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 5:08:10 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Winn:

First, let me ask you ...
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Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By stanc:
Originally Posted By Winn:

You should have specified that's what your "logical" course of action.

Beyond that, you completely missed the point of that passage.

Please enlighten me -- just what is the point of him killing the tree because it had no figs???

First, let me ask you ...

That's rather inconsiderate. I posed my question first...
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 5:15:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2014 5:32:37 PM EDT by Winn]
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Originally Posted By stanc:

That's rather inconsiderate. I posed my question first...

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Originally Posted By stanc:
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By stanc:
Originally Posted By Winn:

You should have specified that's what your "logical" course of action.

Beyond that, you completely missed the point of that passage.

Please enlighten me -- just what is the point of him killing the tree because it had no figs???

First, let me ask you ...

Have you done anything - at all - to try to understand what's being spoken about there, or did you just stumble upon a couple of isolated verses and then start complaining about them because they don't seem to fit into "your logic"?

That's rather inconsiderate. I posed my question first...


The way you edited my post in your quote, and your avoidance of my question, has pretty well answered my question.

Link Posted: 1/26/2014 5:27:07 PM EDT
No answer would satisfy you.  would it?


Link Posted: 1/26/2014 5:56:27 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 6:45:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2014 6:52:44 PM EDT by stanc]
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Originally Posted By Winn:

The way you edited my post in your quote, and your avoidance of my question, has pretty well answered my question.
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Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By stanc:
Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By stanc:
Originally Posted By Winn:

You should have specified that's what your "logical" course of action.

Beyond that, you completely missed the point of that passage.

Please enlighten me -- just what is the point of him killing the tree because it had no figs???

First, let me ask you ...

Have you done anything - at all - to try to understand what's being spoken about there, or did you just stumble upon a couple of isolated verses and then start complaining about them because they don't seem to fit into "your logic"?

That's rather inconsiderate. I posed my question first...

The way you edited my post in your quote, and your avoidance of my question, has pretty well answered my question.

Yeah? Obviously you misunderstood my post. I avoided your question solely because you did not answer my question. You still refuse to answer. If you want your questions answered, you'll have to display the good manners to answer mine.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 6:50:45 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By walttx:
No answer would satisfy you.  would it?
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Sure, an honest answer could. But, evading the issue, and dancing around the question, definitely does not.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 7:05:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/26/2014 7:37:27 PM EDT by Winn]
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Originally Posted By stanc:

Yeah? Obviously you misunderstood my post. I avoided your question solely because you did not answer my question. You still refuse to answer. If you want your questions answered, you'll have to display the good manners to answer mine.
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More avoidance.  More trolling.

Feel free to carry on with your intentional/uninformed gripe-fest, though.

Link Posted: 1/26/2014 7:06:04 PM EDT
Fig trees have a specific symbolism.

Also, if you like, you can see it in the context of what Jesus says elsewhere about trees, the bearing fruit, and consequences.

Or you can put 'em both together.
Link Posted: 1/26/2014 7:17:30 PM EDT


Originally Posted By stanc:



Matthew 21





Jesus Curses the Fig Tree





18 In the morning, as [Jesus] was returning to the city, he was hungry.  19 And seeing a fig tree by the wayside he went to it, and found nothing on it but leaves only. And he said to it, "May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once.





Such petty, childish, vindictive, irrational behavior. The logical course of action would've been to cause the tree to suddenly bear fruit. That way he would not only have demonstrated his power, he would also have been able to sate his hunger.
View Quote



The answer I give here is not for OP, because it is clear in OP's words that he has already decided what is signified in this verse by use of the terms "petty, childish, vindictive, irrational".  The rest is likely trolling for him, but perhaps stating my view on this might be useful to others.
First, review the context:




...and the chief priests and the scribes having seen the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, `Hosanna to the Son of David,' were much displeased; and they said to him, `Hearest thou what these say?' And Jesus saith to them, `Yes, did ye never read, that, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings Thou didst prepare praise?'





And having left them, he went forth out of the city to Bethany, and did lodge there, and in the morning turning back to the city, he hungered, and having seen a certain fig-tree on the way, he came to it, and found nothing in it except leaves only, and he saith to it, `No more from thee may fruit be -- to the age;' and forthwith the fig-tree withered.





And the disciples having seen, did wonder, saying, `How did the fig-tree forthwith wither?'





And Jesus answering said to them, `Verily I say to you, If ye may have faith, and may not doubt, not only this of the fig-tree shall ye do, but even if to this mount ye may say, Be lifted up and be cast into the sea, it shall come to pass; and all -- as much as ye may ask in the prayer, believing, ye shall receive.'
View Quote



Observations: This tree seems to represent Israel at the time of rejecting it's messiah, this occurs just as Jesus has had a negative reaction from the religious leaders.  It has bared no fruit for messiah and he condemns it to wither, as foretold and as occurs for Israel.  Elsewhere we read that the unprofitable servant has taken from him even that he has to be given to the profitable.  This is the same theme.





The literal translation here is: "Never, no more from you fruit let there be, for the age (aion)."  It almost reads like a curse upon Israel, to be barren to the end of the age (e.g. till the end time comes).  





The discussion is one that follows, which is one of faithfulness, which Israel at the time was not.  Had Israel been faithful to God and looking for messiah rather than their own geopolitical agenda, would the tree have been withered?  Would Jerusalem and Israel have been overthrown?





I argue it is prophecy, exhortation to faithfulness, and warning to those who can read his word and understand.
And suppose there are those read the acts of God and can not see his wisdom, justice, or love, but only see pettiness or vindictiveness, etc., remember...  He is supreme, he isn't unmade by the negative opinions of humanity, and for those who don't want to be in his presence he has lined up alternate accommodations where they can complain all they like.  Think carefully before insisting on those alternate accommodations.




 
 
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 2:03:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2014 2:08:15 AM EDT by ledslngr]
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Originally Posted By stanc:

I'm posting about an act described in the Bible, which clearly does exist.

If he is so irrational as to have actually engaged in an act of vengeance against a fig tree as told in Matthew 21, then I doubt that anything I could say would matter.

So tell me, if you saw someone destroy a tree because it had no fruit when he was hungry, wouldn't you think he was at least a wee bit emotionally disturbed?
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Originally Posted By stanc:
Originally Posted By ledslngr:
Well, when you meet him one day you can tell him what you think of him.

Oh wait, let me guess, you don't believe he even exists right?  So why even post things about things you don't believe exists?

I'm posting about an act described in the Bible, which clearly does exist.
What if youre wrong and you meet him one day and have to give an account of your words?

If he is so irrational as to have actually engaged in an act of vengeance against a fig tree as told in Matthew 21, then I doubt that anything I could say would matter.

So tell me, if you saw someone destroy a tree because it had no fruit when he was hungry, wouldn't you think he was at least a wee bit emotionally disturbed?

The funny thing is, if you went to Jesus with a sincere heart, he would forgive everything you have ever said about him. Let's take Paul's life for example.

How petty, childish, vindictive, and irrational is that?

Don't talk about the awesome acts of forgivness and mercy and love, just take some passages out of context to try to backup your opinion of him being mean and vindictive.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 2:11:31 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By stanc:

Sure, an honest answer could. But, evading the issue, and dancing around the question, definitely does not.
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Originally Posted By stanc:
Originally Posted By walttx:
No answer would satisfy you.  would it?

Sure, an honest answer could. But, evading the issue, and dancing around the question, definitely does not.

You're trolling because your question was answered and you've so far chosen to ignore it.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 2:21:56 AM EDT

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Originally Posted By crux:





The answer I give here is not for OP, because it is clear in OP's words that he has already decided what is signified in this verse by use of the terms "petty, childish, vindictive, irrational".  The rest is likely trolling for him, but perhaps stating my view on this might be useful to others.





First, review the context:




Observations: This tree seems to represent Israel at the time of rejecting it's messiah, this occurs just as Jesus has had a negative reaction from the religious leaders.  It has bared no fruit for messiah and he condemns it to wither, as foretold and as occurs for Israel.  Elsewhere we read that the unprofitable servant has taken from him even that he has to be given to the profitable.  This is the same theme.



The literal translation here is: "Never, no more from you fruit let there be, for the age (aion)."  It almost reads like a curse upon Israel, to be barren to the end of the age (e.g. till the end time comes).  



The discussion is one that follows, which is one of faithfulness, which Israel at the time was not.  Had Israel been faithful to God and looking for messiah rather than their own geopolitical agenda, would the tree have been withered?  Would Jerusalem and Israel have been overthrown?



I argue it is prophecy, exhortation to faithfulness, and warning to those who can read his word and understand.





And suppose there are those read the acts of God and can not see his wisdom, justice, or love, but only see pettiness or vindictiveness, etc., remember...  He is supreme, he isn't unmade by the negative opinions of humanity, and for those who don't want to be in his presence he has lined up alternate accommodations where they can complain all they like.  Think carefully before insisting on those alternate accommodations.

   
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Originally Posted By crux:



Originally Posted By stanc:

Matthew 21



Jesus Curses the Fig Tree



18 In the morning, as [Jesus] was returning to the city, he was hungry.  19 And seeing a fig tree by the wayside he went to it, and found nothing on it but leaves only. And he said to it, "May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once.



Such petty, childish, vindictive, irrational behavior. The logical course of action would've been to cause the tree to suddenly bear fruit. That way he would not only have demonstrated his power, he would also have been able to sate his hunger.


The answer I give here is not for OP, because it is clear in OP's words that he has already decided what is signified in this verse by use of the terms "petty, childish, vindictive, irrational".  The rest is likely trolling for him, but perhaps stating my view on this might be useful to others.





First, review the context:


...and the chief priests and the scribes having seen the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, `Hosanna to the Son of David,' were much displeased; and they said to him, `Hearest thou what these say?' And Jesus saith to them, `Yes, did ye never read, that, Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings Thou didst prepare praise?'



And having left them, he went forth out of the city to Bethany, and did lodge there, and in the morning turning back to the city, he hungered, and having seen a certain fig-tree on the way, he came to it, and found nothing in it except leaves only, and he saith to it, `No more from thee may fruit be -- to the age;' and forthwith the fig-tree withered.



And the disciples having seen, did wonder, saying, `How did the fig-tree forthwith wither?'



And Jesus answering said to them, `Verily I say to you, If ye may have faith, and may not doubt, not only this of the fig-tree shall ye do, but even if to this mount ye may say, Be lifted up and be cast into the sea, it shall come to pass; and all -- as much as ye may ask in the prayer, believing, ye shall receive.'


Observations: This tree seems to represent Israel at the time of rejecting it's messiah, this occurs just as Jesus has had a negative reaction from the religious leaders.  It has bared no fruit for messiah and he condemns it to wither, as foretold and as occurs for Israel.  Elsewhere we read that the unprofitable servant has taken from him even that he has to be given to the profitable.  This is the same theme.



The literal translation here is: "Never, no more from you fruit let there be, for the age (aion)."  It almost reads like a curse upon Israel, to be barren to the end of the age (e.g. till the end time comes).  



The discussion is one that follows, which is one of faithfulness, which Israel at the time was not.  Had Israel been faithful to God and looking for messiah rather than their own geopolitical agenda, would the tree have been withered?  Would Jerusalem and Israel have been overthrown?



I argue it is prophecy, exhortation to faithfulness, and warning to those who can read his word and understand.





And suppose there are those read the acts of God and can not see his wisdom, justice, or love, but only see pettiness or vindictiveness, etc., remember...  He is supreme, he isn't unmade by the negative opinions of humanity, and for those who don't want to be in his presence he has lined up alternate accommodations where they can complain all they like.  Think carefully before insisting on those alternate accommodations.

   
Thank you sir.

 
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 4:00:45 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Spade:
Fig trees have a specific symbolism.

Also, if you like, you can see it in the context of what Jesus says elsewhere about trees, the bearing fruit, and consequences.

Or you can put 'em both together.
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+1

In order to really understand it, one would have to look at it as a parable.  Fig trees exist for a purpose (bearing fruit).  This fig tree wasn't carrying out its purpose, fitting into the natural order per its design, thus it merited destruction.

Odd to see someone who (presumably) believes in the theory of evolution get so put out by this parable because it communicates a very similar meaning.

But sincere understanding isn't really what this thread is about, is it?
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 4:05:48 AM EDT
Cut to the chase, and let him who has ears hear.

OP is the fig tree.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 6:25:24 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By Winn:


More avoidance.
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Originally Posted By Winn:
Originally Posted By stanc:
Yeah? Obviously you misunderstood my post. I avoided your question solely because you did not answer my question. You still refuse to answer. If you want your questions answered, you'll have to display the good manners to answer mine.


More avoidance.

This coming from one who has repeatedly avoided giving an answer to my question. I think that's called hypocrisy.
Link Posted: 1/27/2014 6:27:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/27/2014 6:27:03 AM EDT by medicmandan]
Trolling.  
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