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Posted: 5/14/2002 6:21:25 PM EDT
Kevin said:
Then the discussion about shooting people because of your fictious M16 is over!
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Then he locked [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=116359&page=1[/url] But Kevin, (1) I never claimed to have an M16 (please show me where I claimed that). (2) The only shooting I mentioned was legally justified self-defensive shooting. So what's the real reason you locked the thread?
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:30:55 PM EDT
I was begining to wonder "Am I the only one not to read that"?
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:32:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER: I was begining to wonder "Am I the only one not to read that"?
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Yes, you're not.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:36:24 PM EDT
Holy Crap! Doesn't it make you just want to flip out, or maybe wail on a guitar? [}:D]
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:36:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2002 6:37:59 PM EDT by Kevin]
Originally Posted By 6shooter: (1) I never claimed to have an M16 (please show me where I claimed that). (2) The only shooting I mentioned was legally justified self-defensive shooting. So what's the real reason you locked the thread?
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1.) Before you edited your post you said you didn't own an M16 or that you wouldn't discuss what you owned so therefore no need for further discussion. 2.) You're not legally justified to shoot someone because they're after your illegal, fictous M16. Your doing nothing but stirring up ridiculous arguments about a situation where you would be at fault. If you want to advocate illegal ownership of class 3 firearms do it elsewhere because it won't be tolerated here.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:39:02 PM EDT
BTW, that last sentence means good bye, again!!!
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:40:12 PM EDT
It started to degenerated into a p*ssing match between RikWrite and SteyrAUG and and then people were misconstruing certain other persons statements (including mine) to the effect that we were advocating shooting LEOs . To which I took exception to since several here are friends of mine including the local sheriff .
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:42:13 PM EDT
Bye Blaze!
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:43:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kevin:
Originally Posted By 6shooter: (1) I never claimed to have an M16 (please show me where I claimed that). (2) The only shooting I mentioned was legally justified self-defensive shooting. So what's the real reason you locked the thread?
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1.) Before you edited your post you said you didn't own an M16 or that you wouldn't discuss what you owned so therefore no need for further discussion. 2.) You're not legally justified to shoot someone because they're after your illegal, fictous M16. Your doing nothing but stirring up ridiculous arguments about a situation where you would be at fault. If you want to advocate illegal ownership of class 3 firearms do it elsewhere because it won't be tolerated here.
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Would he be justified if they were after his legal M16?
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:45:59 PM EDT
It started to degenerated into a p*ssing match between [red][insert name here][/red] and SteyrAUG
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You've just described about 50% of the threads on the GD [:)]
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:48:24 PM EDT
I have to agree with kevin....Because thats not what the M-16 post said the first time I read it.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:50:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AlClenin: Would he be justified if they were after his legal M16?
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You guys know exactly what I mean, I am not talking about standing by and letting the 2nd amendment be done away with and our firearms be confiscated. I'm talking about someone who is breaking a well known law that has been in place for decades.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:53:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 6:54:02 PM EDT
6shooter, I know you are asking Kevin for his reasons, but I've noticed you've had a couple of threads locked in a couple of days. I'm not sure who holds the record, but you may get to the top of the pile soon. In my opinion (not worth anything I know, but just an outsiders opinion), I feel that both of your locked posts were contrived to generate heated arguments over killing people. One over an M16, the other over 'unconstitutional' laws. Things also tended to quickly degrade to name calling. Don't know if it was your intent, but this outsider might think you were trying to stir shit just for the fun of it. Beyond that, this outside observer finds the hypothetical discussion of what conditions would justify killing people to be in very questionable taste. Without knowing your intent, it seems like you are trying to make a list. I wasn't surprised to see either post locked.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:02:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ColonelKlink: yes but it is still unconstitutional
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Is killing someone because they discovered your [b]illegal, full auto M16[/b] (which you knew to be in violation of law) going to change anything? Will that be [u]good[/u] ground to stand on to try and change anything?
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:04:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Kevin:
Originally Posted By AlClenin: Would he be justified if they were after his legal M16?
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You guys know exactly what I mean, I am not talking about standing by and letting the 2nd amendment be done away with and our firearms be confiscated. I'm talking about someone who is breaking a well known law that has been in place for decades.
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What I'm trying to get at is that there are a lot of folk claiming they wouldn't follow all out ban orders because such orders would be unconstitutional. Fine I believe that, but if they hold the constitution in such high regard, then why take part in the incremental gun ban that is marching slowly on. I don't buy that the restrictions against new machine guns are reasonable restrictions of the 2nd in the same way not being allowed to yell fire in a crowded theater is a reasonable restriction of free speech. First, if machine guns are that dangerous in the hands of us civilian pukes, then why are we still allowed to buy (state laws permitting) the ones made before 86? Second, simply being able to speak does not mean i will automatically go into dark crowded theater and yell fire, and in the same way, owning a newly made machine gun does not mean that i will also take it into a dark crowded theater and fire. I'm perfectly free to go outside in a field and yell fire at the top of my lungs all day, because I'm not hurting anyone by doing that. I guess it comes down to deciding what are "reasonable restrictions". Should I be able to own a nuke? No. Should I be able to own the same kit that the black mask swat ninjas own? I think so, and I'd argue that the author of the 2nd amendment would probably agree. I'd even go so far as to say that the 2nd protects my right to be able to buy (given the $$$) any thing that the average grunt can get a hold of, including grenades, M203, etc. But then, I'm an extremist.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:09:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2002 7:13:03 PM EDT by ColonelKlink]
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:16:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:19:07 PM EDT
Suppose (big assumption) that the laws barring civilian ownership of new machine guns are unconstitutional. Suppose you are caught violating one of those laws. What are your choices then? It's pretty clear that in todays political environment that anyone without massive buckets of $$$ is going to be spending some time in prison. So, are you justified in trying to avoid unjust imprisonment? Because of the power imbalance you'd never get away resisting such an arrest, but would you be justified in trying? How far do can you go when fighting to stay out of prison? Killing? I know most of you will say that it is a battle for the court room. If you believe that anyone of average income has a chance of getting an innocent ruling when facing such a charge (assuming he clearly broke the anti-machinegun laws) then I've got a bridge in new york to sell you.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:19:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2002 7:21:48 PM EDT by Kevin]
My statements are addressing the reason why the thread was locked and why 6shooter is gone. Feel free to continue the discussion in a new thread but 6shooter's comments are what caused the other one to be locked.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:25:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:26:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2002 7:30:28 PM EDT by SteyrAUG]
Originally Posted By Mortech: It started to degenerated into a p*ssing match between RikWrite and SteyrAUG and and then people were misconstruing certain other persons statements (including mine) to the effect that we were advocating shooting LEOs . To which I took exception to since several here are friends of mine including the local sheriff .
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I had no such piss match with RikWriter. I took exception to 6shooter trying to come up with a situation where the shooting of military/LE personnel would be justified and patriotic. Please read the thread before commenting on my involvement or actions. 6shooter, don't worry there is a place for you yet: [url]http://assaultweb.net/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCookie=true[/url] I'm sure you will find them more accomodating.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:27:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:28:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
It started to degenerated into a p*ssing match between [red][insert name here][/red] and SteyrAUG
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You've just described about 50% of the threads on the GD [:)]
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Well if you guys would just agree with me on every issue these things wouldn't happen now would they? Or is it me who is supposed to adjust to your opinion on every issue?
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:38:10 PM EDT
Let's not forget the fact that both sides good guy/bad guy card were played last night on that thread. There was a bunch of "posters" that did nothing but add to the dissent of the "like minded individuals" on this site. I'm no constitutional scolar (very few of us are, even though everyone thinks they are). The "anti's" like to see fight internally like the one that went on last night. What better way to sway the opinion of those who are "one the fence" than to have us threatining "put one in your head"! I know after I read that thread, I logged off and thought "Jesus...what kind of bonehead s#@t will be next?" I'm not trying to be Rodney King, but come on here. Computer terminal Rambos just prove what idiots they are and give ammo to the anti's.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:38:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
It started to degenerated into a p*ssing match between [red][insert name here][/red] and SteyrAUG
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You've just described about 50% of the threads on the GD [:)]
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Well if you guys would just agree with me on every issue these things wouldn't happen now would they? Or is it me who is supposed to adjust to your opinion on every issue?
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We DO all agree with you, all the time. We just don't always know how to express ourselves clearly sometimes. Isn't this the SteyrAug fan club board? [:D]
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:50:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:50:50 PM EDT
DScott, can you notify a few people for me? I have a list.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:52:21 PM EDT
My crew all wears "SteyrAUG for Overlord" tee shirts.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:57:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2002 8:15:34 PM EDT by Fearandloathing37]
I remain as ever, totaly convinced, that, the great majority of people posting on these boards are good and decent gun owners. However, I am also convinced, that there is a small lunitic fringe here, that masterbates themselves to sleep each night visualizing killing a Police Officer, and who go to great lengths to contrive hypothetical situations that would allow them to justify in their sick minds this sort of vile murderous fantisy. They dream of Revolution and SHTF situations, that would allow them to wantonly murder anybody who did not live up to their own personal interpetation of the Constitution. The guys on this board, that scream the loudest about the Constitution, are the very guys who wipe their behinds with it, by telling us all, every chance they get, that, Once the SHTF happens they will form their own little militia and that this little terrorist organization, will in no way take orders, from the federal or State Goverments. No, their Plan is to form their own little independant terrorist cells (Kind of like the Militias in Lebanon during the civil war in that country.) and stage their own little private Holocaust. The SHTF is the only way that their sick fantisy, serial murder spree could ever be carried out. So these guys spend more time writing posts like the "If I had a illegal M-16 would I be justified in killing a few police officers?" thread, that started this post lock down. This is not to say, that all people, who make preperations for disasters are bad, Only the sick few, who use the preparedness threads on this board, as a place to advocate their perverted fantisy of murdering the local authority figures, on whom these losers blame all the problems with their mentaly ill lives.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:59:37 PM EDT
Fearandloathing37, that is the MOST clarifying and lucid thing I have read here in the last month. Damn.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 7:59:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ponyboy:
Originally Posted By 1GUNRUNNER: I was begining to wonder "Am I the only one not to read that"?
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Yes, you're not.
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OMG, was that meant to be not unfunny? Just asking because it had me ROTFLMAO.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 8:07:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Sleepy717: I'm no constitutional scolar (very few of us are, even though everyone thinks they are).
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Of course you are. This is the problem when we let shitbag lawyers run our country. The Consitution was written in a manner that, in my opinion, is fairly straightforward and plain spoken. Someone need not devote their entire life to silly interpretations of it to understand the original intents and meanings. Attempts at circumventing the Constitution by splitting hairs over it meanings and intents is what has brought us to the state we are in today. But anyone with a high school education should be able to read it, view the circumstances and context in which it was written, and be able to understand what it conveys.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 8:10:28 PM EDT
FandL37, thank you. That's perfect.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 8:27:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/14/2002 8:32:14 PM EDT by Fearandloathing37]
It never fails to blow my mind, That the same bunch of guys, on here, that will tell you, that, recording artists like Ice-T, who put out songs like Cop killer, are rap singin, brown skinned, dirt bags, that threaten the very fabric of our American way of life...And then a little while later will start a thread that asks the question, "would it be Ok for me to kill a few police officers, if I quote a few lines out of the Constitution before I pull the trigger". Am I the only one who sees the mind bending hypocracy in that?
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 8:31:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Jarhead_22: My crew all wears "SteyrAUG for Overlord" tee shirts.
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All hail SteyrAug!! Fire up the technicals! We're going cruisin'!!
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 8:35:26 PM EDT
Heaven forbid you should ever discuss Throwing Tea into the Ocean because they raise taxes beyond what you are willing to pay. The ruling class would have to put an end to that type of discussion real quick.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 8:47:19 PM EDT
[b]6shooter[/b], are you a fan of Tupac Shakur?
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 8:48:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteyrAUG: DScott, can you notify a few people for me? I have a list.
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Remember, you only hurt the ones you love! Can't you just FEEL the love?!!?
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 8:59:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Macallan: [b]6shooter[/b], are you a fan of Tupac Shakur?
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He's gone now, as Kevin said, "again." I think he was more a fan of ninjas... sweet! Who else managed to sign on here, generate a whole lotta posts, manage to get several of them locked, and then get himself kicked off the board? Ring any bells?
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 9:00:59 PM EDT
As the AR15.com Turns..... Days of our Board..... Guiding Webpage.... I go to work for a few hours, and all bshtf....
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 9:13:05 PM EDT
I take issue with pulling the plug on his thread simply because you disagree with him. I guess us new guys with low post counts need to watch where we step around here.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 9:27:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GlockBoy: I take issue with pulling the plug on his thread simply because you disagree with him. I guess us new guys with low post counts need to watch where we step around here.
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i'm scared too. but i'm not going to take issue, because i don't want to get in trouble.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 9:34:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Fearandloathing37: [...pretty much every post that he has made in this thread so far...]
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AMEN! Preach it brother!
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 9:35:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By michaelm:
Originally Posted By GlockBoy: I take issue with pulling the plug on his thread simply because you disagree with him. I guess us new guys with low post counts need to watch where we step around here.
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i'm scared too. but i'm not going to take issue, because i don't want to get in trouble.
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Please, spare me. The person in question was here before and judging by the newest post: [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=116910[/url] is here again.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 9:38:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By michaelm:
Originally Posted By GlockBoy: I take issue with pulling the plug on his thread simply because you disagree with him. I guess us new guys with low post counts need to watch where we step around here.
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i'm scared too. but i'm not going to take issue, because i don't want to get in trouble.
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Fear not low post counters. You do not get banned for disagreeing with people. As evidenced by the fact that I am still here. This guy was not just disagreeing, he was trying to justify a scenario where it would be acceptable and patriotic to take up arms against our military and law enforcement. Your basic "cop killer" thread. Being as how many people here would qualify as a target, they don't appreciate it. Especially as how the vast majority of them are actually defending our rights for real while armchair patriots click away at a keyboard.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 9:42:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 9:43:45 PM EDT
Here is what I think(which doesn't count for much). 6shooter has the right to voice his opinion. So says the 1st Amendment. This is what it boils down to. Congress says no more new machine guns period. Do I believe that's constitutional? Fuck no. If you get caught with an unregistered machine gun by a law enforcement officer you will be arrested. That's the law and LAW ENFORCEMENT officers are hired to ENFORCE the LAW. Since the law is already written you will be tried and convicted. If you fight that officer and murder him/her, you will fry. End of story.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 9:47:36 PM EDT
If you don't like it, write your congressman. If WE don't like it, thats when WE get our guns. Join the NRA. 5 million members is a lot of voices.
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 9:50:26 PM EDT
Well said, F&L37. One thing I thought of during that thread was the the whole "unconstitutional" vs "constitutional" arguement some people seem to make around here. Granted, I wish our founding fathers had worded the second ammendment slightly differently to avoid the problems we have today, but they did CLEARLY give the power to interpret the constitution and subsequent laws passed by congress and the approved by the president to SCOTUS. Subtext: If you don't like it, become a lawyer and get appointed to SCOTUS ;) Anyway, to the other low posters, I had a heated on with The_Macallan on another post. I don't think different opinions, per se, get you booted, but I have to agree that the other poster had it coming with the position he was pushing. Personally, if I thought this was becoming another haven for Stormfront or their ilk, I would be outta here. my 2 coppers worth. regards, legrue
Link Posted: 5/14/2002 9:52:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By thebeekeeper1: Can anyone say for sure this is not McUZI? If not, we may soon have a new record-holder for most times kicked off the board. I wish "banned for life" meant gone. Obviously this should not be awarded lightly, but banned should mean banned, not the same crap ten minutes later under a new name. IMHO, of course.
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Given the fact that McUZI would be flaming this guys ass over the topic, I doubt it.
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