Posted: 10/23/2007 4:06:15 PM EDT
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I just got done with a second interview at a company that will be a great opportunity for me. During the interview I was asked to provide references at my current employer(I've already given them two personal and two academic references). I told them I needed to think about it and they asked if my current employer knew I was looking for employment. I told them that my current employer does not know I'm looking and left things at that. Now the recruiter I'm going through tells me that statement was a big hang-up during the interview and they feel that if I could look for employment without telling my employer now then I'd do it to them. My reason for not telling my current employer stems from a number of reasons. First, I must complete an internship for my Masters degree. My internship does not involve my current job tasks. So far my employer has been unwilling to move ahead and start work on completing my internship. They want to leave me where I am which doesn't get me anywhere on my internship. Second, if I tell them the sole reason why I'm leaving is so that I can complete my internship they'll just lie to me. They'll tell me they are 100% committed to allowing me to complete my internship. They've lied to me before, I caught management in a lie two weeks ago and a month before as well. Their past behavior is a big indicator of their future behavior (I know, I know, that's what the company I'm interviewing at sees as the issue as well). Third, if I tell them I don't believe they'll really let me complete an internship then my ass is out of a job without another job in line. I've seen management let people go the day after they give 2 weeks notice without severance or paying out the pay period. I'm between a rock and hard place because there are all these reasons why I can't let my employer know I'm shopping around but if I try to explain them then I'm being negative about my employer during an interview. Any suggestions? Feel free to break the mood too, I'm a bit down since things were going so well before this issue arose. |
Ask this recruiter which of his clients would give you an iron-clad agreement that they would not lay you off without notice, or look for a replacement for you while you're employed there, and tell them that you'd extend them that same courtesy. Big red flag... it sounds like this company has a problem with people looking to get out. Turn the tables on them... since they have this hang-up, I'd ask, "This concerns me. Why should I consider accepting employment with you if your first concern is that I'm going to be looking somewhere else? What kind of morale problems do you have? Do you routinely ignore all negative feedback about your management?" |
This is absolutely right. The days of telling your employer you are hunting for another job because you are unsatisfied, and having them try to work things out to make your current job better, are long gone. They would, and will, drop you in a New York minute. That this is a concern in your new prospective job is a deal killer. Unless the job/money/conditions are overwhelmingly attractive, you would be better served to keep looking. |
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How fucking stupid is that? NO ONE tells their current employer that they are looking for a new job. You might as well quit and save them the trouble of firing you. If they are worried about you looking for another job without telling them then there is something wrong with the company. It must really suck to work there. |
BINGO!!! Tell the recruiter that YOU have reservations about working there if they are afraid of people leaving. |
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I cannot believe they gave you ANY attitude about that!!! You are dealing with RETARDS.  Seriously, I've always toldthem that they can feel free to contact my previous AND my current employers but the people you applied with KNOW that the NORM is for people NOT to advertise they are "looking" |
Perfect advice. I would have said the same thing, but I don't need to now. |
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The prospective employer's approach is unreasonable. Very few people disclose their job search to their current employers for the obvious reasons. You may be able to use current or past customers, clients or former co-workers to meet their need. If they hold fast to the demand then I think this is a signal of a potentially rocky road ahead should you begin working there. Pay attention to warning signs at interviews. They do - so should you. An interview is a two-way meeting. You are interviewing them as well. Good luck! CWO |
What he said. Also the mentions above regarding not telling your employer at risk of being shitcanned. |
I might be a little less combatative, but I would be honest about the problem. There are companies that prize ethics and companies that don't. My previous employer was generous to a fault in many ways but was working me to death in an area I didn't want to be in. I left the company because they wouldn't let me move. I was honest about that and am now in a position I will probably keep through retirement. Several companies I interviewed with either didn't believe me or didn't understand the issue did. Several did. I took the one that fit best. If these folks don't understand the problem up front, well, that's a bad sign. It was odd for me to be interviewing this year. I was only looking at pretty senior positions and was seriously considering just retiring early, and that gave me the ability to relax a lot in the interviews. And it was odd to describe a situation that, while unusual (good company, but trapped in an area I wasn't that interested in), wasn't all that unusual, and watch senior managers look at me as if I was describing ritual sodomy in the conference room. The couldn't understand how I could walk away. That was a big red flag for me. I wanted to be happy, I wasn't and was trying to resolve this, I had given three months notice to my employer (who tried to retain me but really could only have done so by moving me and that was the one thing that they were unwilling to do), and was conducting a job search the way you would if you were a senior person in most other fields, but because this was IT my professionalism just scared the shit out of some of the managers. Others understood right off the bat. Take the hint. |
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Just tell them that the company you're with now is not living up to the promises they made to you. Tell them you don't feel a bit bad about looking for other employment, they haven't lived up to their end of the bargain. Explain that if their company can stand by their word, you'll have no reason to be looking for another job. It has the advantage of being true. |
company that you're going to. Most big companies won't give out any info other than you worked for them. There is something fishy about the company when they want to talk to your old company. BTW: Don't think about working for a single org until retirement. That may not be possible in today's business climate. It is just a job until another gig comes along. |
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As an employer I would not be put off at all if someone that I wanted did not want their current employer to know they were interviewing elsewhere. On the other hand, it would raise a big red flag if they did not want me to get a reference from their current employer. See what I mean. I think you have to take the risk and allow them to contact your current employer. I personally wouldn't hire someone that would not allow me to contact their current employer. |
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Disengage from this recruiter. They should, and probably do, know better. And the company sounds like a real piece of work, too. It's almost as if they want you, but want you to shoot yourself in the foot in order to gain a negotiating edge. While it may seem like a good opportunity for other reasons, this incident should tell you the kind of people they will be to work with. BTW, some recruiters will want to know where else you've interviewed, or tried to, or are about to. Don't tell them, they're just fishing for listings, and on one where you're still a candidate, it would just be creating additional competition. I've know some really good recruiters, but also some very unethical ones. It is legitimate when they identify a company they want to send you to interview at, for them to ask whether you've already interviewed there. That's just to protect themselves from having an employer try to weasel out of a fee if they hire you. |
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Is it possible to ask a trusted colleague, who knows to keep his mouth shut, if he would act as a reference for you? When I was interviewing for my current job I asked two people at my old job if they would be references for me, and they said nothing to management. One asked if I would do the same for him with the same stipulations - he had his second interview with a prospective employer coming up just a few days later! So, it worked out. |
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This depends largeley on whether you are / would be either a contract employee or an at will employee. At will employment is a two way street. If the new employer is providing a contract with a minimum length of tenure and a parachute clause, then they have a legitimate gripe. If they are hiring you as an at will employee, they are being unreasonable and it is indicative of the type of bullshit that will follow. Personally, I'd turn it around on them that way and walk away from the offer for that very reason. The recruiter is just in it for his percentage. He'll be upset, but you are the one who is going to have to work there. |
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The correct answer is "I expressed to them that I was unhappy with the position back in (Month), and there hasn't been any progress made." They're looking to assurance that you'll speak up if you're unhappy, not so much whether you told your employer you're out on an interview. ETA: On that note, don't ever tell your employer that you're leaving. By all means, talk to them and tell them you're unhappy and why, but once you're made the decision to leave then fucking leave, even if they make an offer to fix things when you're on your way out the door. |
| I have always answered the question with "No" and that was perfectly understandable and acceptable to the interviewer. Most of the time they want to know if it's OK to check with your current employer to confirm employment, but they don't want to do that if it will affect you in a negative way. It may have something to do with your being in an internship position. |
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Most employers (including current) will only state the dates you worked for the company, if you're eligible for rehire, and what your salary was(is). Anything else opens them up for a lawsuit based on giving an opinion of the employee. I NEVER allow a prospective employer to contact my current company. I don't know anyone that does. |
This is an inexperienced recruiter. There should be no problem at all for a client to understand that you are currently employed, doing well, but that whatever their opportunity is might be better. If your recruiter cannot explain this to the employer and in fact is not using it as a basis for providing his services to them, then you are dealing with the wrong recruiter. |
No, it is not. Trust goes out the window with perceived advantage. Your best friend will spill the beans. Do not put yourself in the position to lose the job you have for the one you don't. If the new employer does not understand this concept , then they are likely not all that business savvy either. |
This is ridiculous. Ask the recruiter "If you were looking for a new job, would you tell your current employer?" NO ONE tells their current employer they are looking for a new job. Tell the potential employer that you are a loyal, hard worker. In the case of your current employer, you should tell them why you are looking for a new job, and that you feel you will be retaliated against if you made the fact you are looking for a new job known. |
Why not just tell them that your current employer has a history of releasing employees they know to be searching for other work? Micron Computers is the biggest employer in Boise, ID and it is widely known they will fire anyone they even suspect of looking for another job. Micron's thought process is that if you are looking for another job, then you are not happy at Micron, therefore not performing at 100%. |
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I think that is ridiculous my ex wife is a big time tech recruiter and she would NEVER tell someone that. you have a total 'right' to seek other employment out there without telling your current employer. I would explain to them that you respect your current employer and this action is not indicative of how you would treat them. Tell them you value an opportunity to seek a job with their company and would enjoy working there and you feel it is the proper career move for you. Having said that you obviously would not want to jeopardize your current job by telling them you are looking for better opportunities in your chosen career. Or something to that effect. Basically as someone that manages people I would never expect an employee to tell me and I may be odd but I value my staff and if they got a better job or felt they had a better opportunity elsewhere I'd just be happy for them. I'd expect that they gave me 2 weeks notice so that I could find a replacement and that is all that I would ask of them. If they are really sticking to this line of thought that company may not be right for you my friend. They sound a tad possessive. |
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Headhunters lie, man. It's what they do. They are a lot like lawyers. The trick is to get one that lies for YOU and not for the prospective employer. I would dump this turd. There are TONS of headhunters out there. They are a frakkin' dime a dozen. You CAN find a better one, trust me. |
Indeed. While headhunters should not intentionally mislead, I'm sure it does happen. There are currently 17k headhunters in the USA. This figure is down from a high of 43k in 2001. In short, the good ones survived the crash and now they are rebuilding their organizations, leading to some weakness and inexperience in the marketplace. |
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I don't have multiple jobs listed on my resume. Where I'm at now is the only placed I've been employed during college and post graduation with my BS. I've had other jobs but they were 7 years ago when I was in highschool and have no relation to my current field. I'm thinking I need to talk with him again and explain exactly why I'm looking to get out. I thought I made it clear to him that I would not be leaving in bad terms and it's just that the company and I are at different time points in reaching our goals. His big issue was that the company has primarily DoD contracts which have specific deadlines and he wouldn't want me to look for jobs with his knowledge. Mainly because if I leave that puts him a difficult spot. I do think allowing them to talk to my supervisor also places them at a huge advantage since I could easily be fired. I do have two people hear that I can reference if the employer is pretty adamant about that. If things don't go well then I've got more resumes out there that people hopefully bite on. |