I would like for my department to begin issuing handguns.  As of now, you can carry just about anything as long as it is safe and functional.  

I am in a position to recommend changes.  I know what I want to recommend.  We likely have the money to do this, unfortunately we are talking about county government so the money would have to come from the commissioners, not the agency.

I am interested in grants.  How can I find out about getting a grant specifically for purchasing weapons.  I don't need links to grantwritingusa.com.  I need info on specific grants and where to find out the info.

Thanks.

Is there support from the rest of the officers?

I'd kill to be able to carry what I wanted I HATE our issued sidearm (Beretta 96D).  We are supposed to get H&Ks soon but they are saying it'll be a 3 year phase in.  Be careful what you wish for you may not get what you suggest.

Dont have info on grants but I will suggest not limiting yourself to one brand and type as you dont want to put all your eggs in one basket with a single manufacturer who may just decide to one day discontinue your model.

Also take into consideration sizes and skills differ from one officer to another.

Good Luck

Quoted: I would like for my department to begin issuing handguns.  As of now, you can carry just about anything as long as it is safe and functional.   I am in a position to recommend changes.  I know what I want to recommend.  We likely have the money to do this, unfortunately we are talking about county government so the money would have to come from the commissioners, not the agency. I am interested in grants.  How can I find out about getting a grant specifically for purchasing weapons.  I don't need links to grantwritingusa.com.  I need info on specific grants and where to find out the info. Thanks.

Why?  What is your goal or motivation?

Regards,
Gary

CRC- yes

celtic-dad- YOU may wish you could carry what you want, but from a Rangemaster standpoint, what the hell am I supposed to do when a female detention officer shows up with a CZ75 that she has to carry cocked and UNlocked (decock only) because she can't find a duty holster to fit it.  Same problem with people who buy used guns (mostly detention staff) from their next-door neighbor.

ColtM4-not sure I agree but I will kick it around with the range staff.  Most of us are pretty set on Glock 17 or 22.  The Sheriff, Chief Deputy, Assistant Chief, Major of Operations, Support Major, and Training Major all carry some form of Glock.

LastDefender- Gary, please see Celtic-dad and below.

It boils down to this.  We have about 450 staff at the SO.  About 129 are sworn, and about another hundred are detention officers who attend some formal training and can carry a handgun while in the course of their duty only.

There is a huge mix of handguns and frankly I think it is ridiculous to have to attend eight different armorer's courses and order six calibers of ammo just to suit everyone.  I have witnessed the slide from a Ruger P90 literally fly downrange.  I can't count how many "gunnuts" have had an AD with their 1911s (inlcuding one filing cabinet).  I have seen 9mm blow out in a 40 and 40 in a 45.   As a former grunt I have some serious inkling toward uniformity and interchangeability.  

My hope is this.  We can get full size Glocks (don't give a shit about caliber), night sights, and extra magazines for about $430.  I think for an extra $10 we can get the slide inscribed and have department specific serial numbers.  The one day armorer course is megacheap, extra parts are cheap and plentyful, training can be uniform, and even the stupidest people I know can shoot a Glock reasonably well.  I do not accept the "it's too big for my hands" routine.  I am 5'6" and have carried a Glock 21 or a USP45F for almost eight years.  

Any help would be appreciated.

Our 1911 policy is simple, 1 ND of any kind and you are barred from carrying it again, period.

If they are looking at glocks, (which I recommend) you may want to go with the midsized gun.  We are issued  Glock 23s with the option of Glock 22s for the big guys.

The 23s are great if you want to carry one gun on duty and off, and the .40 cal is a pretty decent cartridge.

Good luck with what ever you guys pick up.

Just as a bi-line my department HEADS wanted to go with Ruger p85s because they were cheap.  We range instructors threw such a bitch thay they eventually bucked up the extra coin for a much better pistol.

G

Quoted: Also take into consideration sizes and skills differ from one officer to another.

+1 This is the exact reason that my department has guidelines that must be followed. Failure to follow those guidelines and you cannot use that weapon, period. It's great, the guys that want to carry 1911s can, the ones that want Glocks can have those, odd balls like me can have what they want (HK).

As long as we keep the weapon maintained (our responsibility), operate it safely, and can qualify with it we're golden.

I don't know of any grants for department to issue guns and I personally don't like them since not one gun fits all officers. My department does try to guide it's officers in their selection. They issue 40s&w180gr Gold Dots and will supply qualification ammo for 40s. All but two of our officers carry a 40. I carry a 45acp and another guy uses 357Sig. We have to supply our own duty and practice ammo. Most of our officers carry Glocks with a couple of Sigs mixed in.
What I'm getting at is that your department could put in policy that only 40s are allowed and your individual weapon has to be on an approved list. Supply the ammo not the gun and you'll probably have a happier department. Also why do you need to be an armorer for everything? I'm a Glock and Sig armorer but for anything else I tell someone to find a good gunsmith.

Perhaps a compromise........ select two manufactureres, two variants and two calibers per manufacturer.  That would give some flex to the choice and limit the schools and ammo.  as to grants I can't help you on that one.  Have you searched the DOJ website lately?

Gary

PS...Glock is a no-brainer as most all their models are operationally the same.

I think uniformity in caliber and weapon is very important.  We are issued the standard Glock G22.  This if for all officers, female/male, small/large.  I have yet to hear any complaints regarding this, but as stated if smaller hands are an issue, then I think having a few G23's as well is a good idea.  I don't think that carry whatever you want idea is a good idea, mostly for logistics purposes I guess.  Either way good luck.  I wish I could find some grants as well, cause our department could use a few extra items such as a k9 unit

I'd recommend one in 9mm.  Simple reason is that it's easier for the average officer to shoot and, more importantly, the ammo is a lot cheaper to shoot.  That may or may not be an issue for your agency (it is for mine.  We issue .40 and barely have enough ammo to qualify and do a little training with. It's hard to convince the city to give us more money for ammo.)  

As far as a standard weapon choice, I don't think it's a good idea.  I have seen officers that have trouble with the Glock 22 but don't have trouble with the 9mm in a smaller pistol frame (Glock 19).  I carry about 45 rounds on me and if I show up to your gun fight and have used up all your ammo, you're not getting any of mine.  LE isn't the military.  I would want my officers to have something they can hit well with rather than a standard issue weapon that is geared to saving the county money.

YMMV

We have around 1800 officers scattered thru 4 different agencies, and our weapons policy is officer purchase off an approved list.  We don't have any of the problems you mention.

It seems like the problems you state could simply be corrected by policy. All these armorer courses for example. Why are you working on personally owned guns?  Wide variety of ammo?  Just specify that non-standard calibers are to be supplied by the officer or prohibit them all together.  Limit officers to one type of carry ammo. (Gold Dot, etc)  

As for the ND's, .40 in a .45 etc, that is a weapons familiarity/training issue that is NOT going to be solved by the "issued gun" approach.  File cabinets can be killed by Glocks too.

Come up with an approved list from major manufacturers, specify calibers and action types, then take the money you would dump on new toys and spend it on training and range time.
.
Look at the cost of what you are proposing.  Say 200 guns. 420$ a piece. That's 84K.  You haven't even gotten into such things as trainup, spare parts, holsters and magazine pouches yet.

Imagine what you could do with an extra 84K in the training budget.    

I do not like a "one company gun for everyone" policy.  Having said that, if I absolutely have to pick one brand of gun for an agency, hands down, it's a Glock in some flavor.

Having said that, if I know for a fact that I am going into combat/gunfight and can only take a stock, factory pistol, without function checking, test  firing it, or lubricating it, etc., again, hands down, a Glock.

They have always been 100% reliable for me, and as accurate as any Sig or 1911 I've ever fired.

Here's the way weapons policy goes at my Department. The Department keeps a few issue weapons (Beretta 92) around in case someone gets hired and either can't afford a decent weapon for a while or insists on carrying a Dept issued weapon. Other than that, policy is anything double-action for at least the first shot (no cocked-and-locked, damn it!), caliber 9mm-.45 (no Magnums or .357 Sig), must be a quality weapon, must be inspected by one of the Instructors (namely, me!) and you must be able to qualify with it. The Dept issues practice and duty ammo. Policy for back-up/off duty weapons is the same, only .380 is included.

This policy seems to work pretty well for us. The vast majority of our people carry Glocks, about evenly split between 9mm and .40. A few carry Dept-issued Berettas, one carrys a S&W wheelgun and one had an H&K USP 9mm. Instead of the "One for All" approach, why not try something like this or, like suggested above, choosing one from an approved list. I've found that Officers seem to have a lot more confidence in their weapons, and maintain them better, if they own it and like it, instead of having one shoved at them and being told "Here's your weapon whether you like it or not!"

Bub

As a fellow Range Master I think you are on the right track.

Don't forget to order at least 10-20 additional Glocks, or more.  Remember, if anyone has a shooting, or they break, for any reason, or are lost or stolen, why wait for its return from Glock, the court, the Crime lab, the property room. etc etc.      Re-issue another until the other ones come back.   We had this problem when we had Beretta's.   Small department (less than 20 officers), major shootout, 12 of 20 officers fired their weapons.   All seized by the D.A. and sent to the crime lab.   No replacements.  For 3 weeks we carried whatever they could bring with them in whatever holster they could find.   Colt .45's, Browning Hi-Powers, mini glocks, Officers model .45's, even a MkIII Colt Trooper.   They all worked, but it was a mish-mash of weapons to be sure.  

Glock 22's have served us well.  If I had it to do all over, I would get Glock 22's and 23's both.   22's for street, 23's for detectives/admin personnel.

FWIW    

My department issues hanguns, but I've always carried my own, which is an option.  I just don't like being responsible for somebody else's gun.

Quoted: We have around 1800 officers scattered thru 4 different agencies, and our weapons policy is officer purchase off an approved list.  We don't have any of the problems you mention. It seems like the problems you state could simply be corrected by policy. All these armorer courses for example. Why are you working on personally owned guns?  Wide variety of ammo?  Just specify that non-standard calibers are to be supplied by the officer or prohibit them all together.  Limit officers to one type of carry ammo. (Gold Dot, etc)   As for the ND's, .40 in a .45 etc, that is a weapons familiarity/training issue that is NOT going to be solved by the "issued gun" approach.  File cabinets can be killed by Glocks too. Come up with an approved list from major manufacturers, specify calibers and action types, then take the money you would dump on new toys and spend it on training and range time. . Look at the cost of what you are proposing.  Say 200 guns. 420$ a piece. That's 84K.  You haven't even gotten into such things as trainup, spare parts, holsters and magazine pouches yet. Imagine what you could do with an extra 84K in the training budget.

What do you carry John?

Quoted: Quoted: We have around 1800 officers scattered thru 4 different agencies, and our weapons policy is officer purchase off an approved list.  We don't have any of the problems you mention. It seems like the problems you state could simply be corrected by policy. All these armorer courses for example. Why are you working on personally owned guns?  Wide variety of ammo?  Just specify that non-standard calibers are to be supplied by the officer or prohibit them all together.  Limit officers to one type of carry ammo. (Gold Dot, etc)   As for the ND's, .40 in a .45 etc, that is a weapons familiarity/training issue that is NOT going to be solved by the "issued gun" approach.  File cabinets can be killed by Glocks too. Come up with an approved list from major manufacturers, specify calibers and action types, then take the money you would dump on new toys and spend it on training and range time. . Look at the cost of what you are proposing.  Say 200 guns. 420$ a piece. That's 84K.  You haven't even gotten into such things as trainup, spare parts, holsters and magazine pouches yet. Imagine what you could do with an extra 84K in the training budget.     What do you carry John?

Beretta 92 for the past 14 years.  Beretta 9000S for a backup.  I keep my 5906 on the approved list in case the Beretta ever becomes unavailable. (We're allowed three approved pistols)

I intend to take a really close look at the new Beretta Storm series when they reach the local distributor.