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Posted: 8/20/2006 7:58:45 PM EDT
I am a little confused on the issue of US support for Israel.  I've been able to pick up a couple of reasons why the US is an ally of Israel, or why Israel is an ally of the US, whichever way it goes.

We have the religious alignment.  Judeo-Christian.  The US supports Israel because Christians want Jews in control of the Holy Land.  The US is Christian and Israel is Jewish, so we are natural religious allies.  

Another possible argument is the GWOT.  Islamofascist forces are allied against the lone Judeo-Christian state in the Middle East, so the US must support Israel against the Islamic fundamentalist types.

Another one (and please don't overweight this one, it's just another option) is that we need to control the ME oil supplies and Israel is our foothold in the region so we support and aid Israel because it is in the best interests of the US to do so.

Finally, we have the Plucky Little Israel thing that appears to be a holdover from the WWII holocaust situation where the evil Nazis threw six million Jews into the gas chambers and crematoria, and therefore the US should support Israel.

Am I missing anything?  Are these the reasons that the US supports Israel militarily and economically?  Is there anything else?

I have nothing against Israel.  I have no problems with US Christians supporting Israel.  I have no problem with the US fighting the GWOT.  I just can't figure out for sure why US support for Israel is in MY PERSONAL BEST INTEREST.

I know that there are a lot of arfcommers that are very well suited to answer this one so I throw it out to you.  Why is it in my personal best interest as a working Joe here in the US to have my tax dollars support the military efforts of Israel in its conflict with Lebanon?
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 8:02:01 PM EDT
[#1]

Quoted:
We have the religious alignment.  Judeo-Christian.  The US supports Israel because Christians want Jews in control of the Holy Land.  The US is Christian and Israel is Jewish, so we are natural religious allies.  



Actually the Jews and Muslims were against the Christians during the Crusades.  Just as warning now that you've questioned the alignment with Israel you're going to be labeled a nazi sympathizer.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 8:04:09 PM EDT
[#2]
I can't come up with any Democratic country in the world we don't support or
would not come to their aid if they were attacked.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 8:07:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Look at a map.

If you don't understand the importantance of having a close ally in that area of the world then well, I just don't know what to tell you.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 8:32:00 PM EDT
[#4]

Quoted:
I can't come up with any Democratic country in the world we don't support or
would not come to their aid if they were attacked.


Rwanda.

That pretty much wraps it up for democratic countries.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 8:36:38 PM EDT
[#5]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I can't come up with any Democratic country in the world we don't support or
would not come to their aid if they were attacked.


Rwanda.

That pretty much wraps it up for democratic countries.


UN took the role in that, they just fucked it up.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 8:42:29 PM EDT
[#6]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
I can't come up with any Democratic country in the world we don't support or
would not come to their aid if they were attacked.


Rwanda.

That pretty much wraps it up for democratic countries.


UN took the role in that, they just fucked it up.


Hey, I'm just saying that Rwanda had a genocide within their borders and we basically kept on keepin on, and I don't really have a problem with that.  The Rwandans need to solve their own problems, and so do the Isreaelis and the Lebanon-types.  I don't really care which side wins, as an American working-class Joe.  Cause that's what I am.  I am a working-class average guy.  Why should I care what happens in Israel?

I'd just like to see somebody make a case for it.

Look on a map, somebody says.  Why don't you clarify that for me a little?  What exactly should I be looking for on this map?  Frankly, I'd rather see a billion dollard go towards buying another nuclear sub for our navy rather than sending money to Israel.  Nothing personal towards Israel, I just want to see why it's in my personal best interest to send my money there.

Connect it to me.  Why is it pro-American to send money to Israel?
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 8:44:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Part of the support is because of how much the Jewish people have been through, so we're sympathetic. Part is due to their former underdog status, and Americans root for the underdog. Part is due to their being a western democracy surrounded by Arab non-democracies, so we can relate to them. Hopefully this doesn't come off as anti-semitic but part is due to an influential Jewish lobby.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 8:47:19 PM EDT
[#8]
... For the record, I am not Jewish. In fact, I think many of them are wacko. However, I will support Israel and her existence until I die - no question about it
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 8:48:15 PM EDT
[#9]
If you looked at a map you would see how Israel is right on the Mediterain sea.  And they are in an area where there is much unrest and many resources.  Without certain resouces a nations dies.


This is a global world, isolation is a failed policy..WWI and WWII proved that.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 8:51:36 PM EDT
[#10]

We have the religious alignment. Judeo-Christian. The US supports Israel because Christians want Jews in control of the Holy Land. The US is Christian and Israel is Jewish, so we are natural religious allies.


Palestine was British controlled before 1948. Britain is a mostly Christian nation, so I doubt that is a reason for US support of Israel.

In fact, terrorist attacks were made against the British in Palestine by the Irgun, a terrorist organization composed of Jewish radicals demanding the formation of a Jewish state. Who says terrorists need to be Muslim?
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 8:53:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Who cares. Let 'em fight.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 9:41:57 PM EDT
[#12]
In the short run, no, supporting Israel probably inst in your interest.

Just like taking the UK's side in WWII probably wasn't in our best interest.

The easy choice isn't often the right one.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 9:55:24 PM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 10:01:47 PM EDT
[#14]

Quoted:
Someone is going to fight the islamo fascists.  I would rather assist Isreal than have to do it ALL ourselves.


The question is: Would we be fighting them if it were not for our support of Israel?
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 10:02:43 PM EDT
[#15]
Israel is a true democracy, that's reason enough.  

Reference the following:

The case for democracy the power of freedom to overcome tyranny and terror
Shcharansky, Anatoly.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 10:06:49 PM EDT
[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Someone is going to fight the islamo fascists.  I would rather assist Isreal than have to do it ALL ourselves.


The question is: Would we be fighting them if it were not for our support of Israel?


Yes, yes we would to think otherwise is naive at best.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 10:07:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Jews dont kill Christians .Muslims do, sometimes. that is why we should suport Isreal.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 10:11:32 PM EDT
[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Someone is going to fight the islamo fascists.  I would rather assist Isreal than have to do it ALL ourselves.


The question is: Would we be fighting them if it were not for our support of Israel?


Yes, yes we would to think otherwise is naive at best.


Why? Do you realise how many nations in this world have nothing to fear from Islamic terrorism? What makes us any different?


Quoted:
Jews dont kill Christians .Muslims do, sometimes. that is why we should suport Isreal.


Uh, as I said earlier, there were Jewish terrorist groups in Palestine attacking British Christians before 1948.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 10:14:51 PM EDT
[#19]
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 10:19:11 PM EDT
[#20]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Someone is going to fight the islamo fascists.  I would rather assist Isreal than have to do it ALL ourselves.


The question is: Would we be fighting them if it were not for our support of Israel?


Yes, yes we would to think otherwise is naive at best.


Why? Do you realise how many nations in this world have nothing to fear from Islamic terrorism? What makes us any different?


All of the most powerful countries on this planet are having troubles with Islamic terrorist. As the most powerful nation on earth we are the big target.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 10:19:25 PM EDT
[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Someone is going to fight the islamo fascists.  I would rather assist Isreal than have to do it ALL ourselves.


The question is: Would we be fighting them if it were not for our support of Israel?


You are kidding right?


Agree  , we would be fighting them if there was no Israel
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 10:19:45 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 10:31:47 PM EDT
[#23]

Quoted:
All of the most powerful countries on this planet are having troubles with Islamic terrorist. As the most powerful nation on earth we are the big target.


Not all, but those that do have troubles have military involvement in the mid east (ie. Britain, Spain before pullout from Iraq, etc.) The reason we went to war with Iraq instead of other countries such as Iran is because Israel viewed Iraq as a greater threat, for the same reason Israel sold weapons to Iran during the Iran-Iraq War.


Only to get them out of Isreal. Not to exterminate them. In other words they didn't attack them BECAUSE they were Christian.


Christianity is the largest religion in the world, and there are numerous Christian countries that have never experienced Islamic terrorism. To say that Islamic terrorists target people only because they are Christian is terribly ignorant.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 10:37:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 10:45:49 PM EDT
[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
All of the most powerful countries on this planet are having troubles with Islamic terrorist. As the most powerful nation on earth we are the big target.


Not all, but those that do have troubles have military involvement in the mid east (ie. Britain, Spain before pullout from Iraq, etc.) The reason we went to war with Iraq instead of other countries such as Iran is because Israel viewed Iraq as a greater threat, for the same reason Israel sold weapons to Iran during the Iran-Iraq War.



Bullshit! Russia, Thailand, Philippines, etc. all have problems with Islamic terrorists because of Israel? Nearly all of Europe doesn't support Israel and the ones that don't even support the US still have problems! Do you honestly believe that Israel determines our foreign policy? If you really believe that then there’s no point in arguing with you, you’re clearly a loon.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 10:58:33 PM EDT
[#26]

Quoted:
Someone is going to fight the islamo fascists.  I would rather assist Isreal than have to do it ALL ourselves.


BS. The people that are fighting Israel... Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, all have specific territorial or nationalistic grievances with Israel. They are not Jihadists in the strict sense of the term. They have a conflict with Israel and Israel alone.

If they weren't fighting Israel, they wouldn't be fighting us. We haven't taken any land from them... and that's why you don't see Hamas attacking us.

Al Queda and other true Jihadists have nothing to do with nationalist struggles.... they have grievances with the West as a whole... hence why no western country is safe from their terrorism.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 11:03:59 PM EDT
[#27]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
All of the most powerful countries on this planet are having troubles with Islamic terrorist. As the most powerful nation on earth we are the big target.


Not all, but those that do have troubles have military involvement in the mid east (ie. Britain, Spain before pullout from Iraq, etc.) The reason we went to war with Iraq instead of other countries such as Iran is because Israel viewed Iraq as a greater threat, for the same reason Israel sold weapons to Iran during the Iran-Iraq War.


Only to get them out of Isreal. Not to exterminate them. In other words they didn't attack them BECAUSE they were Christian.


Christianity is the largest religion in the world, and there are numerous Christian countries that have never experienced Islamic terrorism. To say that Islamic terrorists target people only because they are Christian is terribly ignorant.


But it is a big part of it.  We are the most powerful Christian nation.  That is why we are targeted.


Wrong... we are targeted because we help prop up the dictatorships of the Arab world... economically, politically, and militarily. It is our support that keeps these regimes in power.... and keeps them from being overthrow by the Islamists.

We keep friendly arab govts. in power because they argee to give us military basing, they provide us with a reliable source of oil, and because we can buy them off when we need to.

Us wanting democracy for the Arab world is a joke!!! If democracy was actually put in practice in the Arab world, you would have people like Bin Laden running many of the governments in the middle east. I can guarantee you democracy is not our goal for the middle east.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 11:05:58 PM EDT
[#28]

Quoted:
Bullshit! Russia, Thailand, Philippines, etc. all have problems with Islamic terrorists because of Israel?


The terrorist attacks in those countries are wars for independence.

Chechnya is a federal subject of Russia, and has been fighting for independance from Russia for years.

Thailand annexed Satun, Songkhla, Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat in 1902, a region with an 85 percent Muslim population. There have been attacks against the government of Thailand in an ongoing war since the 1960s

The Phillipines declared independance from the US in 1946, but the large Muslim population didn't have representation in the new government. This led to a civil war between the unrepresented Muslim minority and the Christian majority.

All of these are secular, political wars, not a matter of Muslims attacking people for being Christian.


Nearly all of Europe doesn't support Israel and the ones that don't even support the US still have problems!


Which countries are you refering to?
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 11:06:38 PM EDT
[#29]

Quoted:

Quoted:
We have the religious alignment.  Judeo-Christian.  The US supports Israel because Christians want Jews in control of the Holy Land.  The US is Christian and Israel is Jewish, so we are natural religious allies.  



Actually the Jews and Muslims were against the Christians during the Crusades.  Just as warning now that you've questioned the alignment with Israel you're going to be labeled a nazi sympathizer.



Ain't THAT the truth!


Here on ARFCOM you are either for Israel unquestioningly 100% or you're an anti-semtic nazi islamofascist sympathiser…

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 11:07:33 PM EDT
[#30]
Some Arfcomers will never get it, their personal biases trump their ability to reason and analyze strategic issues.

They may as well go join Shehan and Hillary.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 11:12:45 PM EDT
[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
We have the religious alignment.  Judeo-Christian.  The US supports Israel because Christians want Jews in control of the Holy Land.  The US is Christian and Israel is Jewish, so we are natural religious allies.  



Actually the Jews and Muslims were against the Christians during the Crusades.  Just as warning now that you've questioned the alignment with Israel you're going to be labeled a nazi sympathizer.



Ain't THAT the truth!


Here on ARFCOM you are either for Israel unquestioningly 100% or you're an anti-semtic nazi islamofascist sympathiser…

ANdy


I think AIPAC has an ARFCOM chapter.
Link Posted: 8/20/2006 11:13:18 PM EDT
[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Someone is going to fight the islamo fascists.  I would rather assist Isreal than have to do it ALL ourselves.


BS. The people that are fighting Israel... Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, all have specific territorial or nationalistic grievances with Israel. They are not Jihadists in the strict sense of the term. They have a conflict with Israel and Israel alone.

If they weren't fighting Israel, they wouldn't be fighting us. We haven't taken any land from them... and that's why you don't see Hamas attacking us.

Al Queda and other true Jihadists have nothing to do with nationalist struggles.... they have grievances with the West as a whole... hence why no western country is safe from their terrorism.



STOP IT! STOP IT I SAY RIGHT NOW!!!!!

How dare you point out the thruth! Did not GWB Himself say Israel was fighting Americas enemies?

Of course, the little 'problem' with his argument is that Jews and Muslims have been duking it out since long before America was even discovered is just one of those embarrasing little facts he likes to gloss over…

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 1:09:25 AM EDT
[#33]

Quoted:
Some Arfcomers will never get it, their personal biases trump their ability to reason and analyze strategic issues.

They may as well go join Shehan and Hillary.


That makes a lot of sense.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 2:10:31 AM EDT
[#34]
During the cold war, the US decided we needed at least 3 staunch allies in the middle east, to aid in our attempts at containment of soviet expansion. These were Israel, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. The soviets pretty much had Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and the former Palestinian Arabs in their pocket. The Shah went waaaaay overboard in his despotry. We lost Iran. We let the PLO get away with way too much crap, so rather than the members of the Arab league being held accountable for their willful neglect of their Arab brethren, they blamed the US and Israel. So we kinda lost Saudi because of their screwed up sense of "Arab racial unity". (if you're starving and illiterate fuck you, if you can help us justify our monopoly on Mecca, then we love you) "Palestinians" are second only to Morroccans as the pariahs of the Islamic world.
Now we have Israel, the GOVERNMENTS of Egypt(bye bye USSR), Jordan, and Iraq as our allies, while the average Arab in the street HATES the west for stopping Arab expansion during the middle ages/renaissance, supporting the house of Saud, supporting the Shah, supporting Israel, loving bacon, brats, beer, porn, liquor, girls who can read AND wear short shorts, and making better hummous than them.
BTW, ISLAM is the largest religion on the planet, NOT Christianity. There are not 1 Billion to 1.8 Billion Christians, but there are that many Muslims.
And considering the Aryan Nation welcomed their "Muslim Brothers" openly on their websight this year, I too think there is a certain naziesque tone to poo-pooing Israel. Lie down with dogs, etc., etc., etc..
Israel is a true ally of the United States, since the 70's at least, and a damned fine one too. I have made misguided remarks against Israel on this site previously. After some education in history, foreign policy, problems in world order, and the history of Islam, I offer my deepest apologies to Israel, "Schlomo the Hassidic Merkava driver" and anyone those remarks may have offended. I was wrong.
How many poeple did the despots the west supported trying to keep Communism at bay? Less than the 100 million plus the Communists killed trying to expand.
Iran has forgotten James Baskerville and embraced the very Cossacks that slaughtered their pro-democracy movement in the early 20th century.
Plus Israel does some R&D for our DOD since their always havin to kick some bunch of shreiking wadi apes square in the nutsack every few years.
Up Israel, woe to her enemies.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 2:16:35 AM EDT
[#35]

Quoted:
BTW, ISLAM is the largest religion on the planet, NOT Christianity. There are not 1 Billion to 1.8 Billion Christians, but there are that many Muslims.


1. Christianity: 2.1 billion

2. Islam: 1.3 billion

3. Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion

4. Hinduism: 900 million

5. Chinese traditional religion: 394 million

www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 2:18:19 AM EDT
[#36]

Quoted:
BTW, ISLAM is the largest religion on the planet, NOT Christianity. There are not 1 Billion to 1.8 Billion Christians, but there are that many Muslims.


Christianity has more followers. 2.1 billion to 1.3 billion.


ETA: Curses, Sturmgewehr-58!


Link Posted: 8/21/2006 4:03:40 AM EDT
[#37]

Quoted:



The question is: Would we be fighting them if it were not for our support of Israel?


I would say yes, sooner or later.
With the Muslims, you're either an adherent, or you're an infidel.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 4:34:16 AM EDT
[#38]
In a nutshell, oil is the lifeblood of the USA. Israel helps the USA maintain stability in the Middle East, which helps the USA maintain a reliable source of oil. This is by far the most important factor in the US/Israel relationship today.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 2:46:40 PM EDT
[#39]
Perhaps I am mistaken.

However, "David B. Barrett's World Christian Encyclopedia (1994 update) gives an oft-cited figure of 1.9 billion Christians (or about 33% of the world population), and projected that by the year 2000 there will be 2.1 billion Christians in the world. The 2001 edition of the World Christian Encyclopedia stated there were 2.1 billion Christians in the world, or 33% of the total population. Regardless of the degree of accuracy of this figure, Christianity, if taken as a whole, is unarguably the largest world religion - the largest religion in the world."
"Many Muslims (and some non-Muslim) observers claim that there are more practicing Muslims than practicing Christians in the world. Adherents.com has no reason to dispute this. It seems likely, but we would point out that there are different opinions on the matter, and a Muslim may define "practicing" differently than a Christian. In any case, the primary criterion for the rankings on this page is self-identification, which has nothing to do with practice.


80,000,000 Christians in China? 25,000,000 Christians in India?
1,000,000 Christians in Saudi friggin Arabia? 20,000,000 Christians in Indonesia?  3,500,000 in Pakistan, the friggin home of Al Qaeda? These are Wikpedia's numbers. Either the data is incorrect, or Muslims AND Communists are more tolerant of Christians than they themselves have led us to believe.


Link Posted: 8/21/2006 3:02:13 PM EDT
[#40]

Quoted:
Perhaps I am mistaken.

However, "David B. Barrett's World Christian Encyclopedia (1994 update) gives an oft-cited figure of 1.9 billion Christians (or about 33% of the world population), and projected that by the year 2000 there will be 2.1 billion Christians in the world. The 2001 edition of the World Christian Encyclopedia stated there were 2.1 billion Christians in the world, or 33% of the total population. Regardless of the degree of accuracy of this figure, Christianity, if taken as a whole, is unarguably the largest world religion - the largest religion in the world."
"Many Muslims (and some non-Muslim) observers claim that there are more practicing Muslims than practicing Christians in the world. Adherents.com has no reason to dispute this. It seems likely, but we would point out that there are different opinions on the matter, and a Muslim may define "practicing" differently than a Christian. In any case, the primary criterion for the rankings on this page is self-identification, which has nothing to do with practice.


80,000,000 Christians in China? 25,000,000 Christians in India?
1,000,000 Christians in Saudi friggin Arabia? 20,000,000 Christians in Indonesia?  3,500,000 in Pakistan, the friggin home of Al Qaeda? These are Wikpedia's numbers. Either the data is incorrect, or Muslims AND Communists are more tolerant of Christians than they themselves have led us to believe.




Yea tolerent right... what have you been drinking

Duh…

You need a serious history lesson.

Asia has always been a sponge that absorbed Christianity despite horrible methods to try and stop it.

Nagasaki may have been the largest Christian City in the world in 1600 before the Japanese crack down. Whatever the numbers in Japan they were large and growing.
China has had a growing Christian population for centuries despite crackdown after crackdown… and is still growing in China.
South Korea is almost 50% Christian and growing.

What you think you know is not fact.

Link Posted: 8/21/2006 3:20:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 3:20:52 PM EDT
[#42]
We support Israel because it is the right thing to do the only functioning democracy in in a sea of fascist monsters.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 3:25:43 PM EDT
[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Someone is going to fight the islamo fascists.  I would rather assist Isreal than have to do it ALL ourselves.


BS. The people that are fighting Israel... Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, all have specific territorial or nationalistic grievances with Israel. They are not Jihadists in the strict sense of the term. They have a conflict with Israel and Israel alone.

If they weren't fighting Israel, they wouldn't be fighting us. We haven't taken any land from them... and that's why you don't see Hamas attacking us.

Al Queda and other true Jihadists have nothing to do with nationalist struggles.... they have grievances with the West as a whole... hence why no western country is safe from their terrorism.



STOP IT! STOP IT I SAY RIGHT NOW!!!!!

How dare you point out the thruth! Did not GWB Himself say Israel was fighting Americas enemies?

Of course, the little 'problem' with his argument is that Jews and Muslims have been duking it out since long before America was even discovered is just one of those embarrasing little facts he likes to gloss over…

ANdy


What are you?  Some sort of anti-semtic nazi islamofascist sympathiser??



AFRCOM's finest evangelical christian fundamentalist redneck europhobic minds have annointed me so…

ANdy
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 3:26:08 PM EDT
[#44]

Quoted:
We support Israel because it is the right thing to do the only functioning democracy in in a sea of fascist monsters.


Several facist monsters we call allies and provide military, political, and economic support to.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 3:30:58 PM EDT
[#45]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Someone is going to fight the islamo fascists.  I would rather assist Isreal than have to do it ALL ourselves.


BS. The people that are fighting Israel... Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, all have specific territorial or nationalistic grievances with Israel. They are not Jihadists in the strict sense of the term. They have a conflict with Israel and Israel alone.

If they weren't fighting Israel, they wouldn't be fighting us. We haven't taken any land from them... and that's why you don't see Hamas attacking us.

Al Queda and other true Jihadists have nothing to do with nationalist struggles.... they have grievances with the West as a whole... hence why no western country is safe from their terrorism.



STOP IT! STOP IT I SAY RIGHT NOW!!!!!

How dare you point out the thruth! Did not GWB Himself say Israel was fighting Americas enemies?

Of course, the little 'problem' with his argument is that Jews and Muslims have been duking it out since long before America was even discovered is just one of those embarrasing little facts he likes to gloss over…

ANdy


Bullshit…

The majority of Jews spent most of the last couple thousand years in Europe being murdered wholesale.

Most of them were still there until very recent history when the Nazis decided to wipe them out with the help of most of Europe… and most of them were wiped out... and Arabs with help of the Nazis tried to finish them off there as well.

You are just upset the will no longer let themselves be slaughtered
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 3:35:00 PM EDT
[#46]

Quoted:

Quoted:
We support Israel because it is the right thing to do the only functioning democracy in in a sea of fascist monsters.


Several facist monsters we call allies and provide military, political, and economic support to.


That is obfuscation.

We supported the Soviet Union in WWII don't like that either but it was necessary.

Either way how does that change supporting Israel is the right thing to do?
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 3:35:06 PM EDT
[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Someone is going to fight the islamo fascists.  I would rather assist Isreal than have to do it ALL ourselves.


The question is: Would we be fighting them if it were not for our support of Israel?


You are kidding right?


edited to add,  Non support of Isreal sure hasn't protected Europe.

The radicals NEED an enemy.  If not Isreal we would be 1st in line.


In their minds and speeches the Muslim leaders have repeatedly declared that America is the Great Satan and Israel is the Little Satan.  They attack the Little Satan because it is a target of opportunity in their own environment.  Don't think that they wouldn't rather attack the United States.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 3:42:25 PM EDT
[#48]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Someone is going to fight the islamo fascists.  I would rather assist Isreal than have to do it ALL ourselves.


The question is: Would we be fighting them if it were not for our support of Israel?


You are kidding right?


edited to add,  Non support of Isreal sure hasn't protected Europe.

The radicals NEED an enemy.  If not Isreal we would be 1st in line.


In their minds and speeches the Muslim leaders have repeatedly declared that America is the Great Satan and Israel is the Little Satan.  They attack the Little Satan because it is a target of opportunity in their own environment.  Don't think that they wouldn't rather attack the United States.


Of course…

You have Islamist cutting the heads of Christian school girls in southeast Asia.
Murdering school teachers in front of their classes.
Bombing Churches.

What did these people do to support Isreal... not one thing.

What we are facing is ANOTHER wave of Islamic aggressive expansion… if Israel ceased to exist tomorrow it would not stop until we stop it.
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 3:48:41 PM EDT
[#49]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:

Quoted:
Someone is going to fight the islamo fascists.  I would rather assist Isreal than have to do it ALL ourselves.


BS. The people that are fighting Israel... Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, all have specific territorial or nationalistic grievances with Israel. They are not Jihadists in the strict sense of the term. They have a conflict with Israel and Israel alone.

If they weren't fighting Israel, they wouldn't be fighting us. We haven't taken any land from them... and that's why you don't see Hamas attacking us.

Al Queda and other true Jihadists have nothing to do with nationalist struggles.... they have grievances with the West as a whole... hence why no western country is safe from their terrorism.



STOP IT! STOP IT I SAY RIGHT NOW!!!!!

How dare you point out the thruth! Did not GWB Himself say Israel was fighting Americas enemies?

Of course, the little 'problem' with his argument is that Jews and Muslims have been duking it out since long before America was even discovered is just one of those embarrasing little facts he likes to gloss over…

ANdy


Bullshit…

The majority of Jews spent most of the last couple thousand years in Europe being murdered wholesale.

Most of them were still there until very recent history when the Nazis decided to wipe them out with the help of most of Europe… and most of them were wiped out... and Arabs with help of the Nazis tried to finish them off there as well.

You are just upset the will no longer let themselves be slaughtered



Tsk! Tsk! You really should read more

For a people that were being 'murdered wholesale' their numbers seemed to be increasing rapidly until WWII…

EUROPEAN JEWISH POPULATIONS

Beginning in the eighteenth century, the proportion of Jews living in Europe grew steadily.  By the end of the eighteenth century, there were 2.5 million Jews in the world, of whom a million lived in North Africa and the Middle East (including Turkey), while another 1.5 million lived in Europe.  Of the European Jews, one million resided in Russia, Poland and Galicia, while the rest lived in Central and Western Europe.

In the nineteenth century, the European Jewish population had a constant growth in absolute numbers and percentages until 1880, when the percentage of Jews living in Europe reached its peak, then fell.  There were then about 7,750,000 Jews in the world:  6,858,000 (88.5 percent) lived in Europe, 620,000 (8 percent) in Asia and Africa, and 250,000 in North and South America, and Australia.  The absolute number of Jews in Europe continued to rise (particularly in Eastern Europe) even after 1880 (due to high birth rate and good health practices), yielding about 9.5 million Jews on that continent by 1938.  However, they then constituted only 57 percent of world Jewry (16.6 million) because in the interim, new Jewish communities had grown up overseas, spurred by the 1880-1914 massive exodus from Europe.

Czar Alexander II's assassination in 1881 led to rumors that Jews were responsible, causing a wave of progroms and persecution.  Simultaneously, the US acquired the reputation of being Die Goldene Medina (The Golden Land).  A massive emigration began to other parts of Europe and to countries outside of Europe.  This exodus continued until the beginning of World War I. All told, 2,400,000 Jews left Europe during the period 1881-1914.  From 1914 to the beginning of World War II, another million Jews emigrated from Europe.  As a result, five new major centers of Jewish population evolved:  the United States (which received 85 percent of the emigrants), Canada, Argentina, Palestine, and South Africa.


www.jewishgen.org/databases/GivenNames/dbdespop.htm
Link Posted: 8/21/2006 3:55:00 PM EDT
[#50]

Quoted:


Finally, we have the Plucky Little Israel thing that appears to be a holdover from the WWII holocaust situation where the evil Nazis threw six million Jews into the gas chambers and crematoria, and therefore the US should support Israel.


First of all Israel is not a hold-over from WWII.  Israel has been there for over 4000+ years.  They just kept getting conquered and split up.  The Palistinians are the ones who don't belong there.  They were relocated from other arab countries because they are not true arabs.

Secondly, we have NO ally in the world that is more loyal to us than Israel.  NONE.

If you do not protect your best ally, then who else should trust you?  

The problem here is your mentality.  If you are in it for yourself, then who should be in it for you?  Selfish people get nothing in the end.

Sorry, but by the tone of your question, I wonder who could count on you when SHTF.  Do you make your friends pay to hang around you?

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