[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is this normal? (Page 1 of 4)
Posted: 2/13/2011 7:45:37 PM EDT
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went to a funeral service yesterday conducted by a catholic priest. the deceased had committed suicide after a long battle with serious health issues. the first words out of the priest's mouth were to the effect that in the view of the church, he was doomed to burn in hell for eternity and proceeded to expound on same. at this point, some of the family exited and the deceased's widow had to be physically restained. my question is this: is this a normal proceeding for a catholic funeral,or was the priest completely insensitive and out of bounds? it seems to me that this might be a topic that may come up in conversation with the family prior to the service, but didn't. bear in mind, his widow is not a member of the catholic church, and was completely waylaid by the revelation. the guy looked to be fairly new at this stuff. I am in no way knocking the Catholic faith or any of its' beliefs, but am only seeking enlightenment.
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Yes, as a Christian, we pretty much believe that taking your own life is a sin worthy of hell. Now, I think there is a time and a place for everything, and the Priest chose poorly. "Christians" don't believe that. Catholics do. No, not flaming, and not trying to pick a fight. But you can't say "christians" (all inclusive) believe one way or another when it's simply not true. |
| Being raised Catholic, that is consistent with the view of the Church. That said, I can't imagine saying it at the funeral mass. You'd have to be careful and tiptoe around the "we trust that we will meet again" parts, but you could still do it with more propriety than that. |
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went to a funeral service yesterday conducted by a catholic priest. the deceased had committed suicide after a long battle with serious health issues. the first words out of the priest's mouth were to the effect that in the view of the church, he was doomed to burn in hell for eternity and proceeded to expound on same. You witnessed this? My understanding of the canonical Catholic view of suicide is that there are exceptions to "suicide == hell", and that serious mental health issues are one of them. |
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Catholicism has basically made up its own rules over the years so nothing they do surprises me. My family is Catholic and I was raised as one and I pretty much look upon the Church (and to a lesser extent most forms Christianity Organized Religion) as a serious aberration of what God really wanted. |
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All Christian churches will preach that suicide is a sin. Having said that I am surprised at the level of insensitivity this moron demonstrated. I cannot believe that this type of judgmental action is any way condoned by the church authorities. One can make a strong case that someone like this with a terminal and painful condition was overwhelmed with clinical depression and it was this that caused the suicide rather then the desire to sin against God.
A funeral is for the grieving. If God is to judge the deceased it has already happened. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Seriously messed up. I would have a word with the Bishop of that Diocese. Or Archbishop. +1 Agreed. If the priest felt that way, he should have warned the family and given them the option of NOT using his church. He must have given lots or left a chunk to get his funeral in after a suicide. There is a grain of truth here: Farmer McCarthy lived for many years with only his dog for a companion. One sad day he found his dog dead from old age. He went to his parish priest and asked if services could be said for his dog. The good father said "oh no, we can't have services for a dog here, but there's a new church down the street that might be wiling." "Father do you think $50,000 might be enough of a donation?" asked farmer McCarthy. "Well man , why didn't me your dog was a Catholic!" |
| please do not knock the catholic religion. different people believe in different ways. i will endeavour to see to it that the priest in question learns from this. from what i understand, he had quite a 'learning experience' after i left, via some of the family. |
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please do not knock the catholic religion. different people believe in different ways. i will endeavour to see to it that the priest in question learns from this. from what i understand, he had quite a 'learning experience' after i left, via some of the family. Is he an older priest? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Yes, as a Christian, we pretty much believe that taking your own life is a sin worthy of hell. Now, I think there is a time and a place for everything, and the Priest chose poorly. "Christians" don't believe that. Catholics do. No, not flaming, and not trying to pick a fight. But you can't say "christians" (all inclusive) believe one way or another when it's simply not true. Some sects of Baptists (of which I am) do, also, and to prevent looking up and posting every sect of Christianity that does believe this, I chose to use a term that encompasses all of us, right or wrong in some people's eyes, but it is still an accurate statement. Not all Christians believe this, although some Christians do, which would lead me to believe that Christians, although not all of them, believe this to be a mortal sin. |
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Quoted: Quoted: please do not knock the catholic religion. different people believe in different ways. i will endeavour to see to it that the priest in question learns from this. from what i understand, he had quite a 'learning experience' after i left, via some of the family. Is he an older priest? no, a young one. he seemed very convinced that what he said was the gospel. he did touch on the possibility,however faint, that there was a slight,slim chance of minimal absolution. i'm pretty sure the widow was not comforted by his words or wording. |
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Yes, as a Christian, we pretty much believe that taking your own life is a sin worthy of hell. Now, I think there is a time and a place for everything, and the Priest chose poorly. "Christians" don't believe that. Catholics do. No, not flaming, and not trying to pick a fight. But you can't say "christians" (all inclusive) believe one way or another when it's simply not true. Some sects of Baptists (of which I am) do, also, and to prevent looking up and posting every sect of Christianity that does believe this, I chose to use a term that encompasses all of us, right or wrong in some people's eyes, but it is still an accurate statement. Not all Christians believe this, although some Christians do, which would lead me to believe that Christians, although not all of them, believe this to be a mortal sin. There's not a baptist on the planet that believes suicide will send you to hell. It's a contradiction. Baptists believe in grace through faith. If you've accepted Jesus as your personal savior, you go to heaven. Regardless of what sin you've committed. |
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Quoted: You have just met one. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yes, as a Christian, we pretty much believe that taking your own life is a sin worthy of hell. Now, I think there is a time and a place for everything, and the Priest chose poorly. "Christians" don't believe that. Catholics do. No, not flaming, and not trying to pick a fight. But you can't say "christians" (all inclusive) believe one way or another when it's simply not true. Some sects of Baptists (of which I am) do, also, and to prevent looking up and posting every sect of Christianity that does believe this, I chose to use a term that encompasses all of us, right or wrong in some people's eyes, but it is still an accurate statement. Not all Christians believe this, although some Christians do, which would lead me to believe that Christians, although not all of them, believe this to be a mortal sin. There's not a baptist on the planet that believes suicide will send you to hell. It's a contradiction. Baptists believe in grace through faith. If you've accepted Jesus as your personal savior, you go to heaven. Regardless of what sin you've committed. Nice to meet you. |
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You have just met one.
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Yes, as a Christian, we pretty much believe that taking your own life is a sin worthy of hell. Now, I think there is a time and a place for everything, and the Priest chose poorly. "Christians" don't believe that. Catholics do. No, not flaming, and not trying to pick a fight. But you can't say "christians" (all inclusive) believe one way or another when it's simply not true. Some sects of Baptists (of which I am) do, also, and to prevent looking up and posting every sect of Christianity that does believe this, I chose to use a term that encompasses all of us, right or wrong in some people's eyes, but it is still an accurate statement. Not all Christians believe this, although some Christians do, which would lead me to believe that Christians, although not all of them, believe this to be a mortal sin. There's not a baptist on the planet that believes suicide will send you to hell. It's a contradiction. Baptists believe in grace through faith. If you've accepted Jesus as your personal savior, you go to heaven. Regardless of what sin you've committed. Nice to meet you. I'll wager $50.00 that you misunderstand your pastor and/or churches doctrine. 
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You have just met one. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yes, as a Christian, we pretty much believe that taking your own life is a sin worthy of hell. Now, I think there is a time and a place for everything, and the Priest chose poorly. "Christians" don't believe that. Catholics do. No, not flaming, and not trying to pick a fight. But you can't say "christians" (all inclusive) believe one way or another when it's simply not true. Some sects of Baptists (of which I am) do, also, and to prevent looking up and posting every sect of Christianity that does believe this, I chose to use a term that encompasses all of us, right or wrong in some people's eyes, but it is still an accurate statement. Not all Christians believe this, although some Christians do, which would lead me to believe that Christians, although not all of them, believe this to be a mortal sin. There's not a baptist on the planet that believes suicide will send you to hell. It's a contradiction. Baptists believe in grace through faith. If you've accepted Jesus as your personal savior, you go to heaven. Regardless of what sin you've committed. Nice to meet you. I'll wager $50.00 that you misunderstand your pastor and/or churches doctrine. Nope, no misunderstanding. To be fair, though, I have yet to achieve perfection, although I try really hard at most of the tasks I take on.  |
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I think "Christianity" and "Evolution" are the two most misused words in the English language. People use them but no one knows exactly what they mean.
Christians who believe suicide is a guaranteed trip to hell need to re-examine why they claim to be Christian. |
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Quoted: That is the Catholic view, and the view of many other denominations. If it were my loved one I'd find out how many hail Marys you get for punching a priest in the mouth. Forget the penance. How about going to his superior? You will spend a night in county for assault and battery. |
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It’s not in the Bible anywhere, at least as far as I know. And I’m pretty darn sure that no one but God knows where someone’s soul goes after death.
As I understand it the TRADITION that suicides go to hell got started back in the early days of Christianity. Life was hard back then and life was cheap. So, some Christians decided to kill themselves so they could get to Heaven sooner. While I won’t judge the state of someone’s soul when they do this I will say that I doubt God would be very pleased by this kind of suicide. But this has nothing to do with other kinds of suicides. God knows what drives someone to suicide. He knows what they are suffering and what their intent was. No one is entitled to salvation, it’s a gift from God and he can give, or deny it, it to whosoever he chooses. But I do believe that he will show mercy to many people that tradition says are damned… And there’s this… In one of his Table Talks, Martin Luther himself commented: "I don't have the opinion that suicides are certainly to be damned. My reason is that they do not wish to kill themselves but are overcome by the power of the devil." Luther goes on, however, to express concern that this statement not be misunderstood or misused in a way that would downplay the danger and seriousness of this sin in the minds of people (Luther's Works, American Edition, Vol. 54, p. 29). |
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You have just met one.
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Yes, as a Christian, we pretty much believe that taking your own life is a sin worthy of hell. Now, I think there is a time and a place for everything, and the Priest chose poorly. "Christians" don't believe that. Catholics do. No, not flaming, and not trying to pick a fight. But you can't say "christians" (all inclusive) believe one way or another when it's simply not true. Some sects of Baptists (of which I am) do, also, and to prevent looking up and posting every sect of Christianity that does believe this, I chose to use a term that encompasses all of us, right or wrong in some people's eyes, but it is still an accurate statement. Not all Christians believe this, although some Christians do, which would lead me to believe that Christians, although not all of them, believe this to be a mortal sin. There's not a baptist on the planet that believes suicide will send you to hell. It's a contradiction. Baptists believe in grace through faith. If you've accepted Jesus as your personal savior, you go to heaven. Regardless of what sin you've committed. Nice to meet you. I'll wager $50.00 that you misunderstand your pastor and/or churches doctrine. I'm curious to the type of Baptist Barry Edit: And which Translation/Version of the Bible is used |
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" ......But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." Matthew 18:6 If that priest's statement causes the deceased's family to turn from God, then that priest is in danger of the fires of Hell himself. There is no Biblical passage that would condemn one for taking his own life to end suffering. |
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please do not knock the catholic religion. different people believe in different ways. i will endeavour to see to it that the priest in question learns from this. from what i understand, he had quite a 'learning experience' after i left, via some of the family. Is he an older priest? no, a young one. he seemed very convinced that what he said was the gospel. he did touch on the possibility,however faint, that there was a slight,slim chance of minimal absolution. i'm pretty sure the widow was not comforted by his words or wording. Thats pretty weird that a younger priest would take such a hardline approach to that subject. |
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Somebody should have been vetting the new guy's sermons,
I have a rather unique view, I was raised in two different Catholic churches. Mexican Catholic, (Mom's family) and Scottish Catholic. (Dad) About the only thing they have in common is that they both take place in a church. 
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You have just met one.
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Yes, as a Christian, we pretty much believe that taking your own life is a sin worthy of hell. Now, I think there is a time and a place for everything, and the Priest chose poorly. "Christians" don't believe that. Catholics do. No, not flaming, and not trying to pick a fight. But you can't say "christians" (all inclusive) believe one way or another when it's simply not true. Some sects of Baptists (of which I am) do, also, and to prevent looking up and posting every sect of Christianity that does believe this, I chose to use a term that encompasses all of us, right or wrong in some people's eyes, but it is still an accurate statement. Not all Christians believe this, although some Christians do, which would lead me to believe that Christians, although not all of them, believe this to be a mortal sin. There's not a baptist on the planet that believes suicide will send you to hell. It's a contradiction. Baptists believe in grace through faith. If you've accepted Jesus as your personal savior, you go to heaven. Regardless of what sin you've committed. Nice to meet you. I'll wager $50.00 that you misunderstand your pastor and/or churches doctrine. Nope, no misunderstanding. To be fair, though, I have yet to achieve perfection, although I try really hard at most of the tasks I take on.
So what is your pastor's email address? I really would love to ask him, and I'm being serious. My dad is a fundamental Baptist. I was raised in the strictest of households and taught literal interpretations of the Bible. Never in my life have I heard of a baptist who believes that ANY one sin could send him to hell automatically. Sin itself sends you to hell, but not any ONE sin. Not murder, rape, theft, or suicide. The very notion that singular types of sin will blacklist you goes against everything a baptist is supposed to believe in. |
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Any god that would chuck you in hell for killing yourself when he knew for a fact you were going to do it and could have changed your mind with no effort whatsoever is a real asshole.
Just sayin. And yes, I know the Christian God isn't capable of stopping folks from doing evil. If he was capable, and was just unwilling, he'd be.....well, I already said it. 
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