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Posted: 5/6/2010 9:20:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2010 9:54:19 PM EDT by GseriesFal]
If you were pretty well stocked on ammo and magazines for your rifles would you spend your limited funds on additional rifle related items or would you spend the money on ammo and mags for your Class 3 Subgun if you only had a small quantity of subgun mags and ammo on hand?  I pretty much consider my 7.62 sub machinegun to be a range toy and spend most of my funds when available on rifle stuff which seems to be a more practical defensive weapon. I am very short on mags and ammo for it. Should I rethink this?




Link Posted: 5/6/2010 9:43:57 PM EDT
I think they have a place if you have enough disposable income. It's way down on the list, but there is a place.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 9:45:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GseriesFal:
If you were pretty well stocked on ammo and magazines for your rifles would you spend your limited funds on additional rifle related items or would you spend the money on ammo and mags for a Class 3 Subgun if you only had a small quantity of subgun mags and ammo on hand?  I pretty much consider my 7.62 sub machinegun to be a range toy and spend most of my funds when available on rifle stuff which seems to be a more practical defensive weapon. I am very short on mags and ammo for it. Should I rethink this?


It wouldn't hurt to have a few more mags on hand, and pick up ammo as you go along.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 9:47:20 PM EDT
Not unless its about the only gun you have. I own a MAX-11, which is a great competition subgun and a fun range toy, but it is pretty darned near the last gun I would grab from my safe if SHTF... maybe I'd take it over a .22LR pistol, but that's about it. I shoot my semi-auto AR15s and my pistols faster and more effectively than my subgun.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 9:47:53 PM EDT
low power, piss poor range, horrible accuracy if a open bolt and chews up ammo at a alarming rate

yeah you can burst and even hit  doubles and singles with a educated finger but whats the point when there is much better armament out there
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 9:50:22 PM EDT
I guess it would depend on what you concreter a SHTF......Total metdown of everthing? Or just having to go to work or visit a dangeruos area with no police support? A MAC-10 Mini Uzi MP5-K etc will hide in places where you don't want to walk around like your ready for full on combat....with your rifle at the ready.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 9:50:29 PM EDT
I think an MP5 would be a pretty sweet HD weapon.  The price and potential legal issues make it a no-go for me, though.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 9:51:59 PM EDT
SWAT teams and nations' militaries seem to think so.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 9:52:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
low power, piss poor range, horrible accuracy if a open bolt and chews up ammo at a alarming rate
yeah you can burst and even hit  doubles and singles with a educated finger but whats the point when there is much better armament out there



True...but then it's kind of hard to shoot and drive with your AR.

Link Posted: 5/6/2010 9:52:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2010 9:53:31 PM EDT by www-glock19-com]





Originally Posted By StealthyBlagga:



I shoot my semi-auto AR15s and my pistols faster and more effectively than my subgun.



Its funny ya mention that I went to a MG shoot  that was running IPSC 3 gun and SMG matches on the side





the day I was there was just a SMG match day





my bud with a MP5 was doing bang up rental business and wouldn't let me borrow it so   I asked if I could shoot my limited class pistol  for shits and giggles


the said sure and kinda laughed  ...I won  LOL




this was however back when I was fucking hardcore shooting 2-3 matches a week





 
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 9:55:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Silesius:
SWAT teams and nations' militaries seem to think so.


Yep, good for CQB.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 9:55:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By alphabavo:
I think they have a place if you have enough disposable income. It's way down on the list, but there is a place.


what he said
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 10:05:12 PM EDT
Depends on what floor you live on.

Generally speaking, a smg is okay.  Wouldn't be my preferred, though.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 10:07:00 PM EDT
Out of work.  Can't find a job.  Can't pay bills.  Living off of welfare.

And you have fucking class 3 machine gun.

Stay Classy.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 10:07:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GseriesFal:
If you were pretty well stocked on ammo and magazines for your rifles would you spend your limited funds on additional rifle related items or would you spend the money on ammo and mags for your Class 3 Subgun if you only had a small quantity of subgun mags and ammo on hand?  I pretty much consider my 7.62 sub machinegun to be a range toy and spend most of my funds when available on rifle stuff which seems to be a more practical defensive weapon. I am very short on mags and ammo for it. Should I rethink this?




http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/images/uploads/m56yugo/m56_10.jpg


Just quoting before you edit it.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 10:09:08 PM EDT



Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:


Out of work.  Can't find a job.  Can't pay bills.  Living off of welfare.



And you have fucking class 3 machine gun.



Stay Classy.


lulz



 
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 10:18:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Originally Posted By GseriesFal:
If you were pretty well stocked on ammo and magazines for your rifles would you spend your limited funds on additional rifle related items or would you spend the money on ammo and mags for your Class 3 Subgun if you only had a small quantity of subgun mags and ammo on hand?  I pretty much consider my 7.62 sub machinegun to be a range toy and spend most of my funds when available on rifle stuff which seems to be a more practical defensive weapon. I am very short on mags and ammo for it. Should I rethink this?




http://www.deactivated-guns.co.uk/images/uploads/m56yugo/m56_10.jpg


Just quoting before you edit it.


The image is located at DEACTIVATED-GUNS.CO.UK but what really made me suspicious was the absence of a jizz bucket.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 10:23:07 PM EDT
If you gotta kill everybody quietly then a suppressed SMG is tough to beat i gotta say, so yes i would say they are a very practical weapon. Or if you just want a lot of firepower under your jacket. Works great for CQB being a compact and powerful weapon.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 10:26:53 PM EDT
Depends a lot on the SMG.  I think MP5's and their derivatives are still practical, especially compared to a MAC (not counting stupid gun laws).  An MP5SD is extremely quiet, and a K is concealable.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 10:27:54 PM EDT
Before any of you waste your time relpying to this post, allow me to refer you to the ops pit thread. This way you can draw your own conclusions.



http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=130&t=1035163&page=1
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 10:29:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GunDisaster:
If you gotta kill everybody quietly then a suppressed SMG is tough to beat i gotta say, so yes i would say they are a very practical weapon. Or if you just want a lot of firepower bullets under your jacket. Works great for CQB being a compact and powerful weapon.


Fixed. Subguns carry lots of beans and get rid of 'em in a right now way. In semi they can extend your effective range a bit past what is practical for a handgun. They are not powerful. They could be slightly better than a handgun in some situations, but the bottom line is that they take the weakness of a handgun and combine it with the disadvantages of a rifle. You lose the concealability of the handgun and you lose the power and range of a rifle. Very limited utility.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 10:32:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Silesius:
SWAT teams and nations' militaries seem to think so.


When was the last time you saw a SWAT team or a "high-speed" military unit with a preponderance of SMGs?

They're all realizing that AR-type 5.56mm weapon systems are better for CQB than 9mm SMGs, in general. Less over-penetration but better terminal ballistics, better AP ability, etc.

As Exhibit A, the M4, and Exhibit B, the Mk.18. As Exhibits C through whatever, all the new 10.5"-14.5" AR-types being produced by Colt, LMT, Bravo, DD, et al.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 10:39:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By GunDisaster:
If you gotta kill everybody quietly then a suppressed SMG is tough to beat i gotta say, so yes i would say they are a very practical weapon. Or if you just want a lot of firepower bullets under your jacket. Works great for CQB being a compact and powerful weapon.


Fixed. Subguns carry lots of beans and get rid of 'em in a right now way. In semi they can extend your effective range a bit past what is practical for a handgun. They are not powerful. They could be slightly better than a handgun in some situations, but the bottom line is that they take the weakness of a handgun and combine it with the disadvantages of a rifle. You lose the concealability of the handgun and you lose the power and range of a rifle. Very limited utility.


Well that assumes you really need to shoot beyond the range of a handgun. Also your comparing power of semi auto pistols to smg and that doesn't work. A smg is more like a small shotgun than a handgun or rifle. 3-4 147gr 9mm at 650-1200 rpm is alot more power than a single or double pistol hit.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 10:42:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:

Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Out of work.  Can't find a job.  Can't pay bills.  Living off of welfare.

And you have fucking class 3 machine gun.

Stay Classy.

lulz
 




At the whole conversation..

Seriously, is that a class III weapon? Or is it semi-auto?
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 10:44:16 PM EDT



Originally Posted By StonerStudent:



Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:

low power, piss poor range, horrible accuracy if a open bolt and chews up ammo at a alarming rate

yeah you can burst and even hit  doubles and singles with a educated finger but whats the point when there is much better armament out there






True...but then it's kind of hard to shoot and drive with your AR.





Not in any  part of the world with left hand drive vehicles




 
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 10:49:38 PM EDT
Originally Posted By callahan318:
Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:

Originally Posted By ragedracer1977:
Out of work.  Can't find a job.  Can't pay bills.  Living off of welfare.

And you have fucking class 3 machine gun.

Stay Classy.

lulz
 




At the whole conversation..

Seriously, is that a class III weapon? Or is it semi-auto?


I beleive its a dewated M56..
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 10:49:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By oregonblackrifle:
Before any of you waste your time relpying to this post, allow me to refer you to the ops pit thread. This way you can draw your own conclusions.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=130&t=1035163&page=1


Well, that changes everything.

Very interesting to say the least.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 11:09:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By GunDisaster:
If you gotta kill everybody quietly then a suppressed SMG is tough to beat i gotta say, so yes i would say they are a very practical weapon. Or if you just want a lot of firepower bullets under your jacket. Works great for CQB being a compact and powerful weapon.


Fixed. Subguns carry lots of beans and get rid of 'em in a right now way. In semi they can extend your effective range a bit past what is practical for a handgun. They are not powerful. They could be slightly better than a handgun in some situations, but the bottom line is that they take the weakness of a handgun and combine it with the disadvantages of a rifle. You lose the concealability of the handgun and you lose the power and range of a rifle. Very limited utility.


Well that assumes you really need to shoot beyond the range of a handgun. Also your comparing power of semi auto pistols to smg and that doesn't work. A smg is more like a small shotgun than a handgun or rifle. 3-4 147gr 9mm at 650-1200 rpm is alot more power than a single or double pistol hit.


I'm not assuming anything. Pistols are not powerful, they're portable. Pistol ammo is useful because it fits into pistols. Pistols are useful because they fit into pants. Rifles are much more powerful. A select fire rifle beats a select fire subgun. A semi rifle beats a semi pistol caliber carbine. Jamming weak pistol ammo into a large, rifle size platform accentuates two weaknesses rather than focusing on strengths. The only thing a subgun can do that a rifle can't is be smaller, but still bigger and easier to handle than a pistol. Like I said, very limited utility. I didn't say they were completely useless, but even if I had the money to spend on full auto guns, the subguns would stay range toys. Even if you look at the really, really little subguns like the micro Uzi and the MP5K, they still don't fit in many places that a 10" barreled M16 won't fit. Yes some places. Mostly you would be better off with a select fire rifle or a pistol.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 11:16:08 PM EDT
SMG=Compact, low recoil, lightweight.

Arm the kids and tell them not to shoot until they see the whites/grays/yellows of the zombies eyes.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 11:40:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RifleCal30m1n00b:
Originally Posted By Silesius:
SWAT teams and nations' militaries seem to think so.


When was the last time you saw a SWAT team or a "high-speed" military unit with a preponderance of SMGs?

They're all realizing that AR-type 5.56mm weapon systems are better for CQB than 9mm SMGs, in general. Less over-penetration but better terminal ballistics, better AP ability, etc.

As Exhibit A, the M4, and Exhibit B, the Mk.18. As Exhibits C through whatever, all the new 10.5"-14.5" AR-types being produced by Colt, LMT, Bravo, DD, et al.


This.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 11:40:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By GunDisaster:
If you gotta kill everybody quietly then a suppressed SMG is tough to beat i gotta say, so yes i would say they are a very practical weapon. Or if you just want a lot of firepower bullets under your jacket. Works great for CQB being a compact and powerful weapon.


Fixed. Subguns carry lots of beans and get rid of 'em in a right now way. In semi they can extend your effective range a bit past what is practical for a handgun. They are not powerful. They could be slightly better than a handgun in some situations, but the bottom line is that they take the weakness of a handgun and combine it with the disadvantages of a rifle. You lose the concealability of the handgun and you lose the power and range of a rifle. Very limited utility.


Well that assumes you really need to shoot beyond the range of a handgun. Also your comparing power of semi auto pistols to smg and that doesn't work. A smg is more like a small shotgun than a handgun or rifle. 3-4 147gr 9mm at 650-1200 rpm is alot more power than a single or double pistol hit.


I'm not assuming anything. Pistols are not powerful, they're portable. Pistol ammo is useful because it fits into pistols. Pistols are useful because they fit into pants. Rifles are much more powerful. A select fire rifle beats a select fire subgun. A semi rifle beats a semi pistol caliber carbine. Jamming weak pistol ammo into a large, rifle size platform accentuates two weaknesses rather than focusing on strengths. The only thing a subgun can do that a rifle can't is be smaller, but still bigger and easier to handle than a pistol. Like I said, very limited utility. I didn't say they were completely useless, but even if I had the money to spend on full auto guns, the subguns would stay range toys. Even if you look at the really, really little subguns like the micro Uzi and the MP5K, they still don't fit in many places that a 10" barreled M16 won't fit. Yes some places. Mostly you would be better off with a select fire rifle or a pistol.


And what does a 10inch M16 give you that a UZI doesn't....and the UZI is still more compact. Short barreled carbines are a SMG replacement that the military goes with to have one system. Rifle calibers in short barrels mean major power loss, and the only advantage then is closed bolt accuracy over open bolt SMGs. Pistol are harder to shoot accurately because of lack of support.....most SMGs have a stock.



Link Posted: 5/6/2010 11:43:12 PM EDT
It's sort of in the calculations......as it can be. Mac-10's, Uzi's (in theory), others......something that can be assigned to a car, something that can be given to untrained members because they are small, have a large capacity....................and aren't automatic.

That's the catch. As a SMG, things line that are just too expensive and probably shouldn't be given to the untrained. As SA's, however, the equation changes.
_____________________________________________________________
("Daddy would've gotten us Uzi's!"––Samantha after practicing on a car and her Mac-10 jams a few times.
"Car didn't seem to know the difference,"––Regina, (w,stte), "Night of the Comet")
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 11:44:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RifleCal30m1n00b:
Originally Posted By Silesius:
SWAT teams and nations' militaries seem to think so.


When was the last time you saw a SWAT team or a "high-speed" military unit with a preponderance of SMGs?

They're all realizing that AR-type 5.56mm weapon systems are better for CQB than 9mm SMGs, in general. Less over-penetration but better terminal ballistics, better AP ability, etc.

As Exhibit A, the M4, and Exhibit B, the Mk.18. As Exhibits C through whatever, all the new 10.5"-14.5" AR-types being produced by Colt, LMT, Bravo, DD, et al.



Well that a good point....but in a SHTF deal your not either a SWAT team or a "high-speed" military unit. You are one guy/girl in deepshit...with no backup and most likely being hunted by mulitable BGs and would also be shot on sight by a SWAT team or military unit if they saw you where armed.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 11:47:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/6/2010 11:52:16 PM EDT by FTAggie]
edited until further notice

 
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 11:55:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By GunDisaster:
If you gotta kill everybody quietly then a suppressed SMG is tough to beat i gotta say, so yes i would say they are a very practical weapon. Or if you just want a lot of firepower bullets under your jacket. Works great for CQB being a compact and powerful weapon.


Fixed. Subguns carry lots of beans and get rid of 'em in a right now way. In semi they can extend your effective range a bit past what is practical for a handgun. They are not powerful. They could be slightly better than a handgun in some situations, but the bottom line is that they take the weakness of a handgun and combine it with the disadvantages of a rifle. You lose the concealability of the handgun and you lose the power and range of a rifle. Very limited utility.


Well that assumes you really need to shoot beyond the range of a handgun. Also your comparing power of semi auto pistols to smg and that doesn't work. A smg is more like a small shotgun than a handgun or rifle. 3-4 147gr 9mm at 650-1200 rpm is alot more power than a single or double pistol hit.


I'm not assuming anything. Pistols are not powerful, they're portable. Pistol ammo is useful because it fits into pistols. Pistols are useful because they fit into pants. Rifles are much more powerful. A select fire rifle beats a select fire subgun. A semi rifle beats a semi pistol caliber carbine. Jamming weak pistol ammo into a large, rifle size platform accentuates two weaknesses rather than focusing on strengths. The only thing a subgun can do that a rifle can't is be smaller, but still bigger and easier to handle than a pistol. Like I said, very limited utility. I didn't say they were completely useless, but even if I had the money to spend on full auto guns, the subguns would stay range toys. Even if you look at the really, really little subguns like the micro Uzi and the MP5K, they still don't fit in many places that a 10" barreled M16 won't fit. Yes some places. Mostly you would be better off with a select fire rifle or a pistol.


And what does a 10inch M16 give you that a UZI doesn't....and the UZI is still more compact. Short barreled carbines are a SMG replacement that the military goes with to have one system. Rifle calibers in short barrels mean major power loss, and the only advantage then is closed bolt accuracy over open bolt SMGs. Pistol are harder to shoot accurately because of lack of support.....most SMGs have a stock.





The 10" M16 gives you fragmentation out to 30yds or so - plenty for indoors, anyway. Outside that range, you still get rifle wound profiles and penetration through soft ballistic armor. You also get the flat shooting trajectory of a rifle cartridge combined with that closed bolt that you mentioned for a weapon system that is easily capable of making hits out to 500m. Show me an Uzi that can hit a man sized target consistently at 500m (without the use of tripod, T&E, an artillery sight and aiming poles). The Uzi is somewhat more compact. Less so when compared to a 10" SCAR or Sig 556, or other piston rifles. Still, you are correct. The Uzi is more compact. Unfortunately it is not a compact as a pistol. Yes, you can engage targets a bit further away with a subgun than you can a pistol, but they are nearly the size of a rifle without the power and range of a rifle. Again, they are not useless, but their utility is very limited.
Link Posted: 5/6/2010 11:57:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
Originally Posted By RifleCal30m1n00b:
Originally Posted By Silesius:
SWAT teams and nations' militaries seem to think so.


When was the last time you saw a SWAT team or a "high-speed" military unit with a preponderance of SMGs?

They're all realizing that AR-type 5.56mm weapon systems are better for CQB than 9mm SMGs, in general. Less over-penetration but better terminal ballistics, better AP ability, etc.

As Exhibit A, the M4, and Exhibit B, the Mk.18. As Exhibits C through whatever, all the new 10.5"-14.5" AR-types being produced by Colt, LMT, Bravo, DD, et al.



Well that a good point....but in a SHTF deal your not either a SWAT team or a "high-speed" military unit. You are one guy/girl in deepshit...with no backup and most likely being hunted by mulitable BGs and would also be shot on sight by a SWAT team or military unit if they saw you where armed.


Wait, what country is this in? Even in NOLA after Katrina they didn't shoot people on sight just for having a gun. They pulled some serious stupid shit but they didn't just start hosing civilians. You're right that you should try to keep a gun hidden if you can, though.
Link Posted: 5/7/2010 12:03:49 AM EDT
does the library even allow SMGs?
Link Posted: 5/7/2010 12:05:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
does the library even allow SMGs?


Now that's funny, I don't care who you are.
Link Posted: 5/7/2010 12:06:18 AM EDT
Are you fucking kidding me?

What in the blue fuck is wrong with you, son?
Link Posted: 5/7/2010 12:15:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By GunDisaster:
If you gotta kill everybody quietly then a suppressed SMG is tough to beat i gotta say, so yes i would say they are a very practical weapon. Or if you just want a lot of firepower bullets under your jacket. Works great for CQB being a compact and powerful weapon.


Fixed. Subguns carry lots of beans and get rid of 'em in a right now way. In semi they can extend your effective range a bit past what is practical for a handgun. They are not powerful. They could be slightly better than a handgun in some situations, but the bottom line is that they take the weakness of a handgun and combine it with the disadvantages of a rifle. You lose the concealability of the handgun and you lose the power and range of a rifle. Very limited utility.


Well that assumes you really need to shoot beyond the range of a handgun. Also your comparing power of semi auto pistols to smg and that doesn't work. A smg is more like a small shotgun than a handgun or rifle. 3-4 147gr 9mm at 650-1200 rpm is alot more power than a single or double pistol hit.


I'm not assuming anything. Pistols are not powerful, they're portable. Pistol ammo is useful because it fits into pistols. Pistols are useful because they fit into pants. Rifles are much more powerful. A select fire rifle beats a select fire subgun. A semi rifle beats a semi pistol caliber carbine. Jamming weak pistol ammo into a large, rifle size platform accentuates two weaknesses rather than focusing on strengths. The only thing a subgun can do that a rifle can't is be smaller, but still bigger and easier to handle than a pistol. Like I said, very limited utility. I didn't say they were completely useless, but even if I had the money to spend on full auto guns, the subguns would stay range toys. Even if you look at the really, really little subguns like the micro Uzi and the MP5K, they still don't fit in many places that a 10" barreled M16 won't fit. Yes some places. Mostly you would be better off with a select fire rifle or a pistol.


And what does a 10inch M16 give you that a UZI doesn't....and the UZI is still more compact. Short barreled carbines are a SMG replacement that the military goes with to have one system. Rifle calibers in short barrels mean major power loss, and the only advantage then is closed bolt accuracy over open bolt SMGs. Pistol are harder to shoot accurately because of lack of support.....most SMGs have a stock.





The 10" M16 gives you fragmentation out to 30yds or so - plenty for indoors, anyway. Outside that range, you still get rifle wound profiles and penetration through soft ballistic armor. You also get the flat shooting trajectory of a rifle cartridge combined with that closed bolt that you mentioned for a weapon system that is easily capable of making hits out to 500m. Show me an Uzi that can hit a man sized target consistently at 500m (without the use of tripod, T&E, an artillery sight and aiming poles). The Uzi is somewhat more compact. Less so when compared to a 10" SCAR or Sig 556, or other piston rifles. Still, you are correct. The Uzi is more compact. Unfortunately it is not a compact as a pistol. Yes, you can engage targets a bit further away with a subgun than you can a pistol, but they are nearly the size of a rifle without the power and range of a rifle. Again, they are not useless, but their utility is very limited.



I see what your saying....But in a SHTF scenario there isn't much an issue with fragmentation or ballistic armor penetration. Also anything beyond 100 yrds shouldn't be a direct threat, and if it is you'd better avoid it....in SHTF anyway. Your going to be dealing with street thugs and hungry/cazy people in SHTF......avoid any trouble you can. The main advantge of the SMG in SHTF [imo] is compact effective firepower IF you need it. If I have to carry food, medical supplies, ammo etc....I myself want a small package.....with more firepower than a handgun. Now all that said....I don't have a SMG for SHTF, I have AR15 based carbine. But I wouldn't turn my nose up at a UZI or MAC if I had one.....actually I love the MAC10 in 9mm.

Link Posted: 5/7/2010 12:18:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
I guess it would depend on what you concreter a SHTF......Total metdown of everthing? Or just having to go to work or visit a dangeruos area with no police support? A MAC-10 Mini Uzi MP5-K etc will hide in places where you don't want to walk around like your ready for full on combat....with your rifle at the ready.


Eh, not too hip to a non-slowfire Mac, and the mini Uzi is one of my favorites, but still has that ridiculous rate of fire thing going on. Mp5 would be nice, but I'd choose an SD variant with a stock. Quiet is good when things are bad.
Link Posted: 5/7/2010 12:19:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2010 12:19:32 AM EDT by Silence]





Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
And what does a 10inch M16 give you that a UZI doesn't....and the UZI is still more compact. Short barreled carbines are a SMG replacement that the military goes with to have one system. Rifle calibers in short barrels mean major power loss, and the only advantage then is closed bolt accuracy over open bolt SMGs. Pistol are harder to shoot accurately because of lack of support.....most SMGs have a stock.



the 10" m-16 is probably lighter.
 
Link Posted: 5/7/2010 12:20:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bluefalcon:
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
Originally Posted By RifleCal30m1n00b:
Originally Posted By Silesius:
SWAT teams and nations' militaries seem to think so.


When was the last time you saw a SWAT team or a "high-speed" military unit with a preponderance of SMGs?

They're all realizing that AR-type 5.56mm weapon systems are better for CQB than 9mm SMGs, in general. Less over-penetration but better terminal ballistics, better AP ability, etc.

As Exhibit A, the M4, and Exhibit B, the Mk.18. As Exhibits C through whatever, all the new 10.5"-14.5" AR-types being produced by Colt, LMT, Bravo, DD, et al.



Well that a good point....but in a SHTF deal your not either a SWAT team or a "high-speed" military unit. You are one guy/girl in deepshit...with no backup and most likely being hunted by mulitable BGs and would also be shot on sight by a SWAT team or military unit if they saw you where armed.


Wait, what country is this in? Even in NOLA after Katrina they didn't shoot people on sight just for having a gun. They pulled some serious stupid shit but they didn't just start hosing civilians. You're right that you should try to keep a gun hidden if you can, though.


Well that the problem with SHTF scenarios qestion like this...first you have to define SHTF. But generaly speaking its a bad idea to walk up on police and military looking like you ready for a fire fight. Course having a unreg NFA weapon and getting caught with it in Katrina scenario....would be bad too.
Link Posted: 5/7/2010 12:25:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Commander_Adama:
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
I guess it would depend on what you concreter a SHTF......Total metdown of everthing? Or just having to go to work or visit a dangeruos area with no police support? A MAC-10 Mini Uzi MP5-K etc will hide in places where you don't want to walk around like your ready for full on combat....with your rifle at the ready.


Eh, not too hip to a non-slowfire Mac, and the mini Uzi is one of my favorites, but still has that ridiculous rate of fire thing going on. Mp5 would be nice, but I'd choose an SD variant with a stock. Quiet is good when things are bad.



I like the higher rate of fire [800-1200rpm] subguns....but then I'm quick on the trigger. I can get 2-3 bursts from a Glock 18 if I try. MAC10 is no problem though I don't care for the 45acp model without a suppresser to hold on to.

Link Posted: 5/7/2010 12:29:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2010 1:45:40 AM EDT by Aimless]
warning sent





 

 
Link Posted: 5/7/2010 12:41:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/7/2010 12:44:46 AM EDT by Commander_Adama]
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
Originally Posted By Commander_Adama:
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
I guess it would depend on what you concreter a SHTF......Total metdown of everthing? Or just having to go to work or visit a dangeruos area with no police support? A MAC-10 Mini Uzi MP5-K etc will hide in places where you don't want to walk around like your ready for full on combat....with your rifle at the ready.


Eh, not too hip to a non-slowfire Mac, and the mini Uzi is one of my favorites, but still has that ridiculous rate of fire thing going on. Mp5 would be nice, but I'd choose an SD variant with a stock. Quiet is good when things are bad.



I like the higher rate of fire [800-1200rpm] subguns....but then I'm quick on the trigger. I can get 2-3 bursts from a Glock 18 if I try. MAC10 is no problem though I don't care for the 45acp model without a suppresser to hold on to.



I can get single rounds out of a Glock 18 if I try, with a stock. I've been shooting since I was a kid, and over the years I have still managed to shoot at the sky with both a Mac and a Mini Uzi; while not using the stocks.
Suppressed Sterling wins the day but wasn't mentioned as an option. Really concealable, and has a great stock and reliable mags.

ETA: Shooting submachineguns like a pistol is hard.
Link Posted: 5/7/2010 12:46:39 AM EDT
Oh Lord I pray to be a free man and some day have one of these at my disposal.






Link Posted: 5/7/2010 1:18:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Commander_Adama:
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
Originally Posted By Commander_Adama:
Originally Posted By StonerStudent:
I guess it would depend on what you concreter a SHTF......Total metdown of everthing? Or just having to go to work or visit a dangeruos area with no police support? A MAC-10 Mini Uzi MP5-K etc will hide in places where you don't want to walk around like your ready for full on combat....with your rifle at the ready.


Eh, not too hip to a non-slowfire Mac, and the mini Uzi is one of my favorites, but still has that ridiculous rate of fire thing going on. Mp5 would be nice, but I'd choose an SD variant with a stock. Quiet is good when things are bad.



I like the higher rate of fire [800-1200rpm] subguns....but then I'm quick on the trigger. I can get 2-3 bursts from a Glock 18 if I try. MAC10 is no problem though I don't care for the 45acp model without a suppresser to hold on to.



I can get single rounds out of a Glock 18 if I try, with a stock. I've been shooting since I was a kid, and over the years I have still managed to shoot at the sky with both a Mac and a Mini Uzi; while not using the stocks.
Suppressed Sterling wins the day but wasn't mentioned as an option. Really concealable, and has a great stock and reliable mags.

ETA: Shooting submachineguns like a pistol is hard.



Stocks......use them.

Link Posted: 5/7/2010 2:34:29 AM EDT
If the SHTF, a pistol is better than a kinife, a SMG is better than a pistol, a carbine (M4) is better than an SMG, etc.

If you have lots of 9mm ammo, then an SMG instead of a pistol, or in addition to a pistol, may be a good choice, depending on what situation you are faced with.
Link Posted: 5/7/2010 3:26:04 AM EDT
A fucking deactivated gun in the UK.... now I know you're full of shit.
Link Posted: 5/7/2010 3:50:01 AM EDT
If suppressed yes, otherwise not really.
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