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12/6/2019 7:27:02 PM
Posted: 1/18/2008 6:36:02 PM EST
I mean, I have one - an old Surefire X200. But should I need to get up in the middle of the night, I'd think twice about flipping it on and go through the house with it on. Your thoughts?
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 6:37:27 PM EST
Momentary switch FTW!
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 6:37:53 PM EST
it seems to me that have a light has more of a "monster in the closet" application
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 6:37:57 PM EST
Why would you flip it on and go through the house? Use it to illuminate a potential target when you aim.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 6:38:31 PM EST

Originally Posted By thelastgunslinger:
Momentary switch FTW!


+1
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 6:39:07 PM EST

Originally Posted By Stove_Pipe:
Why would you flip it on and go through the house? Use it to illuminate a potential target when you aim.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 6:39:24 PM EST
My wife suggested we get one for her pistol. I suggested , since she knows the layout of the house, go through the house with her night vision.
I think this is a better idea instead of giving your psotion immediatly away. Our boys sleep downstairs, and she would go to them first , in the event a break in ahppened when i am not home.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 6:41:29 PM EST
Its a good idea to have that way you can identify what it is that you are about to pull the trigger at, quick on quick off.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 6:42:41 PM EST
Even if you go through the house with the light off, once you use the momentary switch the intruder knows you're on to him, so all hell would break loose.

If it's pitch black in your house, once you turn it on, you give your position away.

What if there is a second guy you didn't see?
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 6:46:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By DD977GM2:
My wife suggested we get one for her pistol. I suggested , since she knows the layout of the house, go through the house with her night vision.
I think this is a better idea instead of giving your psotion immediatly away. Our boys sleep downstairs, and she would go to them first , in the event a break in ahppened when i am not home.


your wife came with night vision? Mine too but just gen 1
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 6:49:09 PM EST

Originally Posted By gunsforever:
Even if you go through the house with the light off, once you use the momentary switch the intruder knows you're on to him, so all hell would break loose.

If it's pitch black in your house, once you turn it on, you give your position away.

What if there is a second guy you didn't see?


Light on. Shoot. Light off. Move. Repeat.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 6:50:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2008 6:53:18 PM EST by DemolitionDamon]

Originally Posted By gunsforever:
Even if you go through the house with the light off, once you use the momentary switch the intruder knows you're on to him, so all hell would break loose.

If it's pitch black in your house, once you turn it on, you give your position away.

What if there is a second guy you didn't see?


Honestly, that's just stupid.

You're not sneaking through a jungle in warfare, you're in your house. You should turn your lights on anyway and call 911.

If you kept your house pitch black, and you did see the guy in the shadows, would you just stay hidden and quiet? You wouldn't make yourself exposed by shooting? Having a light just means you could actually see what is in your sights.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 6:51:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By wesmerc:

Originally Posted By DD977GM2:
My wife suggested we get one for her pistol. I suggested , since she knows the layout of the house, go through the house with her night vision.
I think this is a better idea instead of giving your psotion immediatly away. Our boys sleep downstairs, and she would go to them first , in the event a break in ahppened when i am not home.


your wife came with night vision? Mine too but just gen 1


Im trying to upgrade my wife to gen 2
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 6:59:07 PM EST
www.natchezdemocrat.com/news/2008/jan/01/natchez-man-shoots-wife-mistaken-home-invasion/

Natchez man shoots wife in mistaken home invasion
By Adam Koob (Contact) | The Natchez Democrat

Originally published 12:22 p.m., January 1, 2008
Updated 12:01 a.m., January 2, 2008

NATCHEZ — A Natchez man shot and killed his wife early Tuesday morning, mistaking her for an intruder.

Police Chief Mike Mullins said Glenn and Deborah Mizell woke to the sound of their barking dog.

Glenn went to investigate, taking a pistol with him.

Mullins said as Glenn patrolled the house, he was unaware that his wife had left the bedroom and gone into the kitchen.

“He mistook her for an intruder,” Mullins said.

When Glenn saw Deborah’s figure in the dark he fired his gun once, striking her in the chest.

Mullins said Deborah, 49, died at the scene.

The shooting occurred shortly before 4 a.m.

“From our preliminary investigation it appears to be an accidental shooting,” he said.

Just last week, the Mizell’s neighbors were the victims of a burglary. A string of burglaries has also plagued the downtown area.

As police continue to investigate Mizell’s death, their friends and family are pained and grieving.

The street in front of the Mizell’s home on Jefferson Davis Boulevard was clogged Tuesday with the cars of friends and family who have gathered to console each other.

Just two doors down at the home of Martha Salters­—the victim of the Thursday burglary— a handful of Mizell’s friends gathered to talk about their friend.

Salters said the break-in at her residence left Deborah in fear.

“She was absolutely petrified about what was going on in the neighborhood,” she said.

Salters said on the same night that her home and three vehicles were burglarized, the thief unscrewed the floodlights on the Mizell’s home.

“The whole thing left her scared and very anxious,” she said.

But while Salters deals with the grief of the loss of her friend, she looks to fond memories of her friend to consol herself.

“I could not have had a better friend,” she said.

When one of Mizell’s friends remarked that she was given the gift of gab, the room broke into laughter.

Mizell’s friend Julie Reid echoed the sentiment.

“She knew everyone,” she said. “If you called her she had to put you on hold 18 times because everyone was always calling her.”

Deborah is survived by her husband, her daughter Amanda and two grandsons.

She was employed by Natchez Regional Medical Center.

Link Posted: 1/18/2008 7:01:08 PM EST

Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
www.natchezdemocrat.com/news/2008/jan/01/natchez-man-shoots-wife-mistaken-home-invasion/

Natchez man shoots wife in mistaken home invasion
By Adam Koob (Contact) | The Natchez Democrat

Originally published 12:22 p.m., January 1, 2008
Updated 12:01 a.m., January 2, 2008

NATCHEZ — A Natchez man shot and killed his wife early Tuesday morning, mistaking her for an intruder.

Police Chief Mike Mullins said Glenn and Deborah Mizell woke to the sound of their barking dog.

Glenn went to investigate, taking a pistol with him.

Mullins said as Glenn patrolled the house, he was unaware that his wife had left the bedroom and gone into the kitchen.

“He mistook her for an intruder,” Mullins said.

When Glenn saw Deborah’s figure in the dark he fired his gun once, striking her in the chest.

Mullins said Deborah, 49, died at the scene.

The shooting occurred shortly before 4 a.m.

“From our preliminary investigation it appears to be an accidental shooting,” he said.

Just last week, the Mizell’s neighbors were the victims of a burglary. A string of burglaries has also plagued the downtown area.

As police continue to investigate Mizell’s death, their friends and family are pained and grieving.

The street in front of the Mizell’s home on Jefferson Davis Boulevard was clogged Tuesday with the cars of friends and family who have gathered to console each other.

Just two doors down at the home of Martha Salters­—the victim of the Thursday burglary— a handful of Mizell’s friends gathered to talk about their friend.

Salters said the break-in at her residence left Deborah in fear.

“She was absolutely petrified about what was going on in the neighborhood,” she said.

Salters said on the same night that her home and three vehicles were burglarized, the thief unscrewed the floodlights on the Mizell’s home.

“The whole thing left her scared and very anxious,” she said.

But while Salters deals with the grief of the loss of her friend, she looks to fond memories of her friend to consol herself.

“I could not have had a better friend,” she said.

When one of Mizell’s friends remarked that she was given the gift of gab, the room broke into laughter.

Mizell’s friend Julie Reid echoed the sentiment.

“She knew everyone,” she said. “If you called her she had to put you on hold 18 times because everyone was always calling her.”

Deborah is survived by her husband, her daughter Amanda and two grandsons.

She was employed by Natchez Regional Medical Center.





Even with no light, one still needs to identify the target. If not with a light, then listen for sounds, voices, etc. Eventually your eyes will get adjusted to the darkness. And eventually there will be a way to ID.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 7:01:08 PM EST
yep, always have a light for your handgun or a small maglite next to it and grab both.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 7:02:25 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 7:04:03 PM EST
To traverse through darkness without a light, when you think someone broke into your house, is dangerously reckless.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 7:05:35 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 7:12:35 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/18/2008 7:13:11 PM EST by John_Wayne777]
Lights on weapons serve a purpose.

A valid purpose.

Training in the tactically sound use of one would be a good idea.

You cannot see well enough in the pitch black to properly identify a threat. Period.

Use the light with the LIE method....

1. Locate -- You use brief bursts of light...only a fraction of a second...to locate a potential threat.

2. MOVE -- you want to be somewhere other than where the light was in case the bad guy decides to shoot at you.

3. Identify -- After locating you want to use a longer burst of light, no more than a second, to identify whether or not what you located needs to be shot.

4. MOVE -- you want to be somewhere other than where the light was in case the bad guy decides to shoot at you

5. ENGAGE -- You shoot what you identified as a threat....WITH THE LIGHT OFF if at all possible. This is easier with laser grips or a red dot scope.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 7:15:26 PM EST

Originally Posted By gunsforever:
What if there is a second guy you didn't see?


That's why you should have:

1. training in how to clear a room
2. An understanding of the way your house is layed out and where any potential hiding places for bad guys would be.

It's your terrain.

Stepping into your territory should mean utter doom for an intruder. You have to know your territory before you can own it.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 7:20:16 PM EST
It has upsides and downsides.
The upsides are pretty obvious:
Always there.
One more hand to hold a weapon that doesn't have to hold a light.
Shock factor when you spotlight someone.



The downsides:
You'll turn it on when you don't want to, it might be sitting in the closet making a dead battery, it might be while you are trying to move unnoticed or before you are in good position, either way, its gonna happen.
Your light source is a target, and having it on your weapon, its guaranteed to be over your body when you are shining it at someone.(This is more an argument for handing a light than having no light, don't mistake it for that)
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 7:22:56 PM EST
It should also be noted that a light mounted on your handgun is not a replacement for a hand-held light.

It's just a light that stays with the weapon. There are times where you will need a handheld light.

Personally the light mounted on my handgun is a backup....the vast majority of my training has been with a hand held Surefire, and that is the setup I use best under stress. Until I get the muscle memory down on the weapon mounted light my handheld is still my primary.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 7:25:36 PM EST
Wow, another one of these threads. Is it Friday night already?
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 7:26:26 PM EST
Nobody has statd the obvious.................Once you use your light, your night vision is Fucked. Might want to rethink using a light evn temporarily. Learn the layout of your house and only use light when you have a target.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 7:28:33 PM EST

Originally Posted By wolfdentd:
Nobody has statd the obvious.................Once you use your light, your night vision is Fucked.


Pull the trigger without clearly identifying a threat and the rest of your life is f**ked.

Seriously, low light training....get some, folks.

Your night vision isn't so badly fouled up that you can't function.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 7:34:10 PM EST

Originally Posted By BaNo:
It has upsides and downsides.
The upsides are pretty obvious:
Always there.
One more hand to hold a weapon that doesn't have to hold a light.
Shock factor when you spotlight someone.



The downsides:
You'll turn it on when you don't want to, it might be sitting in the closet making a dead battery, it might be while you are trying to move unnoticed or before you are in good position, either way, its gonna happen.
Your light source is a target, and having it on your weapon, its guaranteed to be over your body when you are shining it at someone.(This is more an argument for handing a light than having no light, don't mistake it for that)


two lights...handheld..so you dont muzzle sweep...weapon mounted...for if the shooting starts...
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 9:07:36 PM EST

Originally Posted By -Duke-Nukem-:
Wow, another one of these threads. Is it Friday night already?




I reckon so.





AB
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 9:20:50 PM EST
Know your target.

Get momentary switch. SF offers them.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 9:25:21 PM EST

Originally Posted By gunsforever:
Even if you go through the house with the light off, once you use the momentary switch the intruder knows you're on to him, so all hell would break loose.

If it's pitch black in your house, once you turn it on, you give your position away.

What if there is a second guy you didn't see?


what if it's one of your kids friends going to the kitchen for a snack. you know that sleep over your wife forgot to tell you about.

could be trouble, could be inocent, sure would be nice to see little jimmy before you blew him away.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 9:32:39 PM EST

Originally Posted By stormwalker:

Originally Posted By gunsforever:
Even if you go through the house with the light off, once you use the momentary switch the intruder knows you're on to him, so all hell would break loose.

If it's pitch black in your house, once you turn it on, you give your position away.

What if there is a second guy you didn't see?


what if it's one of your kids friends going to the kitchen for a snack. you know that sleep over your wife forgot to tell you about.

could be trouble, could be inocent, sure would be nice to see little jimmy before you blew him away.


It'll give your position away while you're slow-crawling through your pitch black house using your night-adjusted eyes to ID targets.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 9:35:56 PM EST
Works like this...

If you can see your target, but the target can't see you (IE: target has equal or inferior vision, is human with unaided eyes, etc, in a semi-lighted environment), a momentary light is useful to get a positive I.D. when you otherwise might not be able to...

If you can't see your target, and your target can't see you (IE: Complete darkness scenario), using a personal light is a bad idea. Gives you away to your target right off the bat, but doesn't let you find your target right away. Better off either using your ears to find it (and then light it up), or turning on the room light (equal disadvantage, then, not a "shoot me" sign).

If you can't see your target, and your target can see you (IE: You are outlined by lighting somehow, or your target has Night Vision Devices, or your target is a the Alien, etc), having a light gives you a chance to even (or at least, make less unfair) the playing field.

Overall, it's a good idea to have it... If you use it or not is scenario dependant... Think of it as an item in your toolbox.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 9:40:20 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 9:50:41 PM EST
Have you tried to clear a house? It is more difficult and physically demanding than people first think. If you are in the fight of your life, you are going to need every free hand you can muster. Keep two hands on your gun and take one off only if you need to open doors, brace yourself, or other necessary reason.

You can always hold an extra flashlight. But one on your gun is essential IMO. If they didn't belong on guns, people wouldn't be using them.
Link Posted: 1/18/2008 11:04:46 PM EST
You own the night with NV.

*******If you know BG in your space *********
Call 911 and put phone in your pocket, first
Make racking sound with pump shotgun( tape recorder), second.
Grab your weapon, third.
pick up phone to report to 911 operator, send coroner for dead invader, forth.


PS BG won't turn on his/her flashlight to give away their location after heaing the shotgun tape.......may if on drugs
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 5:49:48 AM EST
height=8
Originally Posted By FreedomUSCG:

Make racking sound with pump shotgun( tape recorder), second.


Link Posted: 1/19/2008 5:59:39 AM EST
I am in firm agreement with getting training, in addition I'd like to remind everyone that a majority of the people that break into houses are NOT looking for confrontation and when encountered, or lights go on, are going to end up fleeing from the area.

It is not often that an actual home invasion type robbery/burlgary takes place, and the majority of those happen during daytime/evening hours when people are still awake to answer their door initially and get taken off guard, or as a hostage against the rest of the people in the house taking any type of action (i.e. calling the cops, fighting back, etc)

If you believe someone is in your house, start turning on the lights. Have a weapon mounted light, and a regular flashlight if available.

The primary concern for the homeowner, should be SAFETY, of you and your family, not catching the bad guy.

But training is always a good thing.

and YES, I do have a weapon mounted light on my house-gun, and my swat-gun, and I also have flashlights in every room of the house.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 7:11:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/19/2008 7:20:52 AM EST by Greenspan]

Originally Posted By CA_TX-Cop:
I am in firm agreement with getting training, in addition I'd like to remind everyone that a majority of the people that break into houses are NOT looking for confrontation and when encountered, or lights go on, are going to end up fleeing from the area.

It is not often that an actual home invasion type robbery/burlgary takes place, and the majority of those happen during daytime/evening hours when people are still awake to answer their door initially and get taken off guard, or as a hostage against the rest of the people in the house taking any type of action (i.e. calling the cops, fighting back, etc)

If you believe someone is in your house, start turning on the lights. Have a weapon mounted light, and a regular flashlight if available.

The primary concern for the homeowner, should be SAFETY, of you and your family, not catching the bad guy.

But training is always a good thing.

and YES, I do have a weapon mounted light on my house-gun, and my swat-gun, and I also have flashlights in every room of the house.


Sorry but I have to disagree with you on this one. Unless you have some centrally located master light switch thing in your bedroom which most people don't this is a poor idea.

My bedroom stays pitch black at night except for the glow of night sights, the rest of the house has light in it. Not flood lights but enough light that if I am in the bedroom and your not you won't be able to see shit and have zero night vision where as I have good night vision and can see your illuminated position enough to ID the threat. If your a threat you go down.

Obviously I don't have kids or I would be bringing them into my room and regrouping.

But going around to turn on lights or turning on your nearest light is pure stupid. It illuminates your position.

ETA: The most likely scenario means nothing to me. I am assuming anyone that breaks into my house is at least 5 gang bangers all with guns that want to kill me. Either way my plan solves the problem, your plan only helps if they are going to be scared away. I can just play my shotgun tape to scare people.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 7:53:08 AM EST
There are all kind of cheap security devices like motion detectors and wireless remotes that will turn on lights in every room of your house if a squirrel tries to get in your attic; just keep your bedroom dark and gun handy.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 7:58:12 AM EST

Originally Posted By thelastgunslinger:
Momentary switch FTW!


+1

last second target verification.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 7:59:54 AM EST
Check out the Hackathorn/Vickers Low Level light training!!!!!!!!!!!

The use of a weapon mounted light is covered.

Link Posted: 1/19/2008 8:04:59 AM EST

Originally Posted By CA_TX-Cop:
If you believe someone is in your house, start turning on the lights. Have a weapon mounted light, and a regular flashlight if available.


Not going to happen here. I know the house I live in. I can move through it better in semi-darkness than the bad guy. I'm not going to backlight myself & make things easy for them. I've got a weapon light to identify targets if I find anything. I've got plenty of handheld flashlights if necessary. I'm not planning on going hunting, but I will move to a point I can defend the bedrooms, or will move to stop them if I hear them breaking in.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 12:59:04 PM EST

Originally Posted By LazarusLong:

Originally Posted By FreedomUSCG:

Make racking sound with pump shotgun( tape recorder), second.




This was a light hearted attempt at humor!
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 1:02:33 PM EST
Attach the light to the shoulder thing that goes up and you'll be good to go.
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 1:54:26 PM EST
I keep a G19 with a Streamlight on it and a Surefire Z2 next to my bed.

I don't know $hit about tactical pistoleros... but I had always figured that in a suspicious situation, I would grab both, and favor using the separate flashlight first, in my off-hand. The reason being that I can hold the flashlight out to my left side, and if anyone strikes or fires at it, all they might hit is my left hand.

What I DO know for sure is that if you are sneaking around in a pitch-black house, and you turn on your 3W LED flashlight for a second to fire, then your darkness vision is going to be non-existent when you flip that light back off. So the "light on--shoot--light off--move" plan is not a real good one, IMO.

Also with the TLR (and many other pistol lights) you have to use your index finger to turn the light on or off.... and so you can't control both the trigger and that light at once. So maybe a pressure-pad under your thumb? Or under the trigger guard perhaps,,,, might work better.
.......
I am certain that I do not practice with the Streamlight enough--because I can never remember which way to flip the switch is momentary-on, and which way locks it on.
~
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:54:13 PM EST
A light is a great idea unless you put it on a .40 cal Glock. Then it becomes a jamomatic!!

Link Posted: 1/19/2008 2:55:44 PM EST
Take a low-light course and then ask the same question.

SG
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 8:04:22 PM EST
Read my Post at the top of page two.....

and what are my qualifications...Lets say School Trained DOA SRT....4 yrs on the team....as a civilian Law Enforcement guy
Link Posted: 1/19/2008 8:10:00 PM EST

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By wolfdentd:
Nobody has statd the obvious.................Once you use your light, your night vision is Fucked.


Pull the trigger without clearly identifying a threat and the rest of your life is f**ked.

Seriously, low light training....get some, folks.

Your night vision isn't so badly fouled up that you can't function.


+1. And though I wouldn't recommend it, you could put a red filter on the light. Red does not hurt your night-vision.
Link Posted: 1/21/2008 10:38:31 PM EST
With all the disagreement I feel the need to clarify my "turning on the lights".

I wasn't referring to turning on the light in the room you are actively in, before entering into a dark room. What I was referring to is that you know where the light switches are, as you approach a room that you are going to enter or check for the intruder, nothing stops you from flipping the switch in that room and illuminating it so that you may not even need to enter to ensure that nobody is in there.

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