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Posted: 12/17/2016 2:45:55 AM EST
Is it disingenuous for gun owners to be pedantic about the term ‘assault rifle’?

Most of the common designs available in semi-automatic are trained with by the civilians who use them (private citizens, police, and security personnel) more or less exactly as the military does, for similar purposes.

Militaries don’t use full-auto all that much. All ex-military I have heard talk about their issued weapons said they hardly, if ever, used the full-auto setting on their rifles. With heavier bullets (like with the AK and the FAL*), full-auto (in a rifle) is universally considered to be next to useless at ranges beyond point-blank. Some militaries even issued semi-auto-only AKs and FALs. And for suppressive fire, isn’t pulling the trigger as fast as one can manage going provide (basically) the same results? (An AKM is about 500rpm and fast trigger finger in semi-auto is about 300rpm.)

They are indeed more effective than manual-action firearms as fighting and killing tools. Who cares? Why not admit it? 'Freedom is scary', as it is often said around here.

In practice, the semi-auto only models do pretty much the everything the full-auto ones do. Is there a practical difference? Personally, I have no problem using the term for the semi-auto-only variants.

* The FAL and the G3 are descendants of the Sturmgewehr idea and were/are intended to be used in more or less the same manner, so they should be considered assault rifles.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 2:49:14 AM EST
It's a stupid term that some gun rag came up with back in the 80's. I want to say it was G&A but I might be wrong.

But it was an article in a rag that coined the term.

It's bullshit and meaningless.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 2:50:17 AM EST
Some dumbass FUDD probably thought "AR" meant assault rifle.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 2:50:27 AM EST
So is my model 70 in 30-06 with a walnut stock and 3-9 scope a sniper rifle?
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 2:50:52 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By leatherface_y2k:
It's a stupid term that some gun rag came up with back in the 80's. I want to say it was G&A but I might be wrong.

But it was an article in a rag that coined the term.

It's bullshit and meaningless.
View Quote

I thought it was just a rough translation of Sturmgewehr.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 2:50:53 AM EST
No.

The best thing we can do is to not let then control the language. The use of assault is to bring a mental imagery of violence. It's the same reason they stick it in front of pistols, magazines, drums, and clips.

Just because it's almost a correct usage is only coincidental.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 2:51:37 AM EST
My rifles aren't assaulting anyone. Therefore, they aren't assault rifles.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 2:55:43 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GeneralPurpose:
My rifles aren't assaulting anyone. Therefore, they aren't assault rifles.
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Bingo.

Terms like "assault weapon" are a blanket, autistic term used by people who like to sensationalize things.

I want to see the next news story about rape use terms like "high capacity sperm holding testicle" or "fully erect assault penis."
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 2:57:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2016 2:58:49 AM EST by brich2929]
so, ok- when the media asks the masses- Should Joe Blow average citizen be able to possess "Assault rifles" and that question is put on your ballot in the form of a proposition vote and the low-information voter THINKS machine gun but in reality we are talking semi-automatic rifle that most people are actually ok with--what then?

Maybe you didn't pay attention when the left spins their web of lies after every mass shooting and has assholes everywhere- "expert" assholes stating such bullshit like "bullet buttons make AR's fully automatic" and shit. "Scopes make any rifle a sniper rifle".

Link Posted: 12/17/2016 3:00:24 AM EST
I have not been paying attention, does the military call M16, M4, AR15 assault weapons?
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 3:02:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 3:04:42 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By brich2929:
so, ok- when the media asks the masses- Should Joe Blow average citizen be able to possess "Assault rifles" and that question is put on your ballot in the form of a proposition vote and the low-information voter THINKS machine gun but in reality we are talking semi-automatic rifle that most people are actually ok with--what then?

Maybe you didn't pay attention when the left spins their web of lies after every mass shooting and has assholes everywhere- "expert" assholes stating such bullshit like "bullet buttons make AR's fully automatic" and shit. "Scopes make any rifle a sniper rifle".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwLD3erPe_s
View Quote
Drunk.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 3:07:19 AM EST
No.  Pedantic is throwing out knowledge where it does not belong or is not needed.  People that get jacked about gun terms are usually just being stupid.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 3:15:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2016 3:23:01 AM EST by ma96782]
Unfortunately, most of the general public (mostly the non-gun owners) don't even have a clue what a real, "Assault Weapon/Rifle" is. The definition for most, has been hi-jacked by the anti-gun media and liberal politicians. It's common for them to think that any magazine fed, semi-automatic, black colored rifle is an "Assault Weapon." Then again, most don't even know the difference between full auto and semi-automatic.

But, Hillary said we should ban them so.....why not? It's got to be dangerous if it's first name is "ASSAULT." Rrrright.

Even the supposedly "educated" don't know what the hell is going on.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CTWNwNLttU

So, being pedantic over the word's definition affords us an opportunity to correct and educate the general public. Who knows....if they were wrong about "assault weapons." Then, what else could they have been wrong about? Here's your chance.

Aloha, Mark
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 3:18:25 AM EST
What if I like "assault weapons?" 
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 3:19:10 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By leatherface_y2k:
It's a stupid term that some gun rag came up with back in the 80's. I want to say it was G&A but I might be wrong.

But it was an article in a rag that coined the term.

It's bullshit and meaningless.
View Quote

This is correct. I think more than one rag- all the "deadly military grade firepower" stuff that the gun grabbers spout? Yeah, they didn't even make that up. Josh What's-his-fuck basically saw those magazine covers and said, "bingo, that's exactly how we'll present it to soccer moms".

It's important to insist that people know what they're talking about if they're going to broadcast their opinion. Are they assault rifles? Might as well be I guess.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 3:26:56 AM EST
I don't really care what you call them.
They're cool as fuck!
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 3:36:57 AM EST
That bolt action rifle that was sent to the wrong address...

On the local news channel (FOX 10) they showed a picture of an AR15. 

Link Posted: 12/17/2016 3:52:07 AM EST
It is a waste of time to sneer at someone's language if they're trying to have a discussion about policy with you. It's a nice thought-terminating cliche, since you get to say "you don't know the words, so i don't have to consider your argument because you're ignorant of the technical details of this topic", but you're never going to convince anyone of shit if all you do is smack your lips and say "actually..." every time they say "clip".

And sure, it's a point against anti-gun people that they often fail to educate themselves about the subject they want to dictate policy on. I'm just saying it's some high-school-debate-team bullshit to sneer and declare victory because you spent the whole discussion defining terms.

But most of the time people don't argue about politics to convince the other person of anything, or to find some kind of mutually-acceptable middle ground. Mostly people argue politics to jerk off.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 5:06:23 AM EST
I don't know.
We were having a family shoot last July and my oddball BIL said "Holy crap, how many assault rifles do you own?
I said " None".
I only have semi-autos.
So I guess I'm "that guy".
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 5:11:23 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CROQ:
I have not been paying attention, does the military call M16, M4, AR15 assault weapons?
View Quote



No. It would be the equivalent of professional race car drivers referring to their "hot rod".



Link Posted: 12/17/2016 5:13:32 AM EST
I just call them "rifles".
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 5:16:56 AM EST
It is just a rifle..
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 5:20:00 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DaveP1:
It is just a rifle..
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Modular sporting rifle
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 5:34:50 AM EST
That one really came back to bite us in the ass, didn't it?












Link Posted: 12/17/2016 6:10:29 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Mr_Smiley:
No.

The best thing we can do is to not let then control the language. The use of assault is to bring a mental imagery of violence. It's the same reason they stick it in front of pistols, magazines, drums, and clips.

Just because it's almost a correct usage is only coincidental.
View Quote


Who cares? Since no weapon should be banned, I don't give a shit what they call any weapon. When you argue with them on this, you are de facto admitting that automatic weapons should be regulated.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 6:13:30 AM EST
No it's not, OP.

Not once have I ever referred to any of my guns as assault rifles. Not because Im purposely not using the term, but because they're not.

I am guilty of saying 'battle rifle' though for 308 magazine fed semi-auto carbines.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 6:27:21 AM EST
What was that old joke about the reporter asking the Marine office how he felt about training young men to be killers? She said the Marines were giving them the training and the equipment to be killers, therefore they were training them to be killers.

He asked her if she'd been trained to be a prostitute, because she had the training and the equipment.

Is my car a race car? High performance engine, suspension, brakes, etc? Just because it has similar equipment?

Get over it. Or go somewhere and talk about assault clubs, assault axes, assault bows, knives, etc., etc. It's not the tool, it's the operator.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 6:49:24 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hosphemer:


Who cares? Since no weapon should be banned, I don't give a shit what they call any weapon. When you argue with them on this, you are de facto admitting that automatic weapons should be regulated.
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Originally Posted By hosphemer:
Originally Posted By Mr_Smiley:
No.

The best thing we can do is to not let then control the language. The use of assault is to bring a mental imagery of violence. It's the same reason they stick it in front of pistols, magazines, drums, and clips.

Just because it's almost a correct usage is only coincidental.


Who cares? Since no weapon should be banned, I don't give a shit what they call any weapon. When you argue with them on this, you are de facto admitting that automatic weapons should be regulated.



And how am I de facto arguing anything?

I'd really like to know.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 7:01:17 AM EST
It's not an assault rifle. Stop using their negative rhetoric.

By your logic, then pistols are assault guns...since the military and police use them.

My shotgun must be an assault shotgun...since the military use those too....

.mil get to use full auto, cans, and SBR's without all the bullshit.

No, they are not the same.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 7:26:32 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2016 7:27:11 AM EST by GriswoldGuns]
I remember awhile back reading about some domestic alphabet agency buying bunches of M4 personal defence weapons, so all of my guns are PDWs too.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 7:30:13 AM EST
No, in a world where the left defines whatever the hell bullshit terms they are making up and insists people go by them, we can too.

Use their own retarded tactics against them.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 7:33:07 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MT_Mauser:
So is my model 70 in 30-06 with a walnut stock and 3-9 scope a sniper rifle?
View Quote

Of course, it depends on how you use it, or if you are a deer.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 7:47:29 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Slugball:

I thought it was just a rough translation of Sturmgewehr.
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Originally Posted By Slugball:
Originally Posted By leatherface_y2k:
It's a stupid term that some gun rag came up with back in the 80's. I want to say it was G&A but I might be wrong.

But it was an article in a rag that coined the term.

It's bullshit and meaningless.

I thought it was just a rough translation of Sturmgewehr.


It is.
"Assault weapon" is the term coined by a magazine writer in the 1980s.
Notice that the two terms are now interchangeable in the minds of some people.
It's a great illustration of the power of propaganda.

Control the medium.

Control the message.

Influence people.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 7:49:29 AM EST
It's never disingenuous to refute the gun grabbing left when they attempt to incorrectly frame their anti gun argument and take control of any discussion by means of false, inflammatory, terminology.


Link Posted: 12/17/2016 7:58:41 AM EST
Why assault rifle?

Why not defense rifle? Or target rifle? Or sporting rifle? Or just rifle? More people use them for these purposes than for assaulting and killing.


Link Posted: 12/17/2016 8:11:04 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bud7h7:



No. It would be the equivalent of professional race car drivers referring to their "hot rod".
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Originally Posted By bud7h7:
Originally Posted By CROQ:
I have not been paying attention, does the military call M16, M4, AR15 assault weapons?



No. It would be the equivalent of professional race car drivers referring to their "hot rod".

i interact with current and former .mil trigger pullers from all branches, many of them ( particularly marsoc / fmr force recon ) have verbally used the term "assaulter" to refer to the guy going in to the house/camp/etc. if a person can be an assaulter i imagine he might carry an assault rifle, but these guys refer to specific guns by their exact names, they occasionally say "rifle" "sidearm" but usually it is m4 m16 etc etc. i have never actually heard them use "assault rifle". for most of them any rifle in their hands could be an "assault rifle" if something needs assaulted.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 8:15:16 AM EST
Freedom Rifle fits better. 
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 8:18:26 AM EST
It's become an alarmist buzzword that the media and others with an agenda use to scare people.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 8:19:31 AM EST
Words mean something.
Assault means it's useful to assault, as in (to most people) ASSAULT and Battery. That's aggressive, offensive and ILLEGAL.

You can just as easily assault someone with a handgun or even a knife but they'r not labeled as such.

Alinsky application.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 8:20:03 AM EST
Please hand me the "murder weapon"... oh I meant the "kitchen knife". 
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 8:25:25 AM EST
I think you are confusing the term "assault rifle" - which is a legit term - with the sensationalist term "assault weapon".
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 8:26:31 AM EST
I have met many people who thought AR stood for assault rifle. 
My wife, armed with the knowledge it stood for armalite rifle and its history was abke yo get some female coworkers to calm down and go shooting with us.

That is a win. Don't concede language. 
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 8:27:12 AM EST
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Originally Posted By RDak:
Some dumbass FUDD probably thought "AR" meant assault rifle.
View Quote

Not just a FUDD. I've run across anti gunners that thought AR meant assault rifle and told me which is it we couldn't say it wasn't and then call it an AR. They did thank me for educating them about Armalite but not much else changed.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 8:32:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 8:33:12 AM EST
Yet when they use the technically correct term "Silencer" the gun lobby falls over itself to go "Noo, They're Suppressors!" It's the exact opposite.

Link Posted: 12/17/2016 8:34:55 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By hosphemer:


Who cares? Since no weapon should be banned, I don't give a shit what they call any weapon. When you argue with them on this, you are de facto admitting that automatic weapons should be regulated.
View Quote

This.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 8:35:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2016 8:35:53 AM EST by FennRx]
It's not disingenuous. Words have meanings. And I'm not about to allow gun grabbers to define reality with their bullshit terms to scare the sheep. The average American doesn't care if you own a semi auto rifle, even if it accepts a "high" (again, the real term is standard) capacity magazine.

Military grade assault weapon? You might start to get some movement on the needle. Don't let liberals frame the conversation. Ever.

Or before you know it, your M1 is a banned assault weapon and your Remington 700 is a banned military sniper rifle.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 8:37:38 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Slimjim:
Yet when they use the technically correct term "Silencer" the gun lobby falls over itself to go "Noo, They're Suppressors!" It's the exact opposite.
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False.

Suppressor do not "silence" gun shots.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 8:40:09 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2016 8:42:36 AM EST by mamacujo]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By RDak:
Some dumbass FUDD probably thought "AR" meant assault rifle.
View Quote





This is exactly my thought as well. There are things that people say that make the hair on my neck stand up. That is one of them, along with "fair share" and "inequality".

Some phrases just tick me off. <img src=http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_kisses.gif border=0 align=middle>



ETA It also depends on who is saying it and how as to my level of pissyness.
Link Posted: 12/17/2016 8:41:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: 12/17/2016 8:45:33 AM EST by Slimjim]
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Originally Posted By lilMAC25:

False.

Suppressor do not "silence" gun shots.
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Doesn't matter, Its the technically correct term. Maxim called them Silencers on the patents in the late 1800/early 1900, The ATF classifies them as "Silencers" and has no federal definition for the term "Suppressor" Infact the word "Suppressor" doesn't appear on a patent until sometime in the 1980's. They are regulated federally as Silencers.

Try building one without filing a tax stamp because "Its a suppressor!!1 It doesn't silence the gun so its not a silencer!" And see what happens :)
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