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Posted: 11/2/2009 6:00:45 AM EST
No poll, voice your opinion and support it with facts....

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:03:30 AM EST
You can't say nature. Thru natural selection......homosexuality amongst animals would eliminate them because they don't breed. Explain nuture?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:03:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
No poll, voice your opinion and support it with facts....


Both.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:05:55 AM EST
Its just the ghey... nothing to debate.

If you've got the ghey, you're ghey... what does it matter how you caught it?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:06:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 6:25:05 AM EST by vito113]
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:07:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 6:08:48 AM EST by dorobuta]
It's a choice, or it would have died out due to lack of genes being passed on.

Unless homosexuals have mastered parthenogenesis, would have died out after a couple generations.

There's no survival benefits to being homosexual, in fact there appear to be survival risks (mostly life style issues) - so nature would not promote it.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:07:05 AM EST
Some of both, IMO.

Some are born to it, others choose it.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:07:10 AM EST
Gayest thread ever.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:07:27 AM EST

Originally Posted By Tazaroo:
You can't say nature. Thru natural selection......homosexuality amongst animals would eliminate them because they don't breed. Explain nuture?


Homosexual monkeys, giraffes, and dogs aren't uncommon.

I doubt they're taught that.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:08:30 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tazaroo:
You can't say nature. Thru natural selection......homosexuality amongst animals would eliminate them because they don't breed. Explain nuture?


Sure you can say nature. People are born with "defects" all the time. Are you saying that a baby born without arms or legs qualifies as "nurture" because humans couldn't have survived without arms and legs?

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:08:42 AM EST
Recessive trait which expresses itself when hormonal conditions dictate.

Brought about by hyper-socialization.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:11:10 AM EST
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:
Originally Posted By Tazaroo:
You can't say nature. Thru natural selection......homosexuality amongst animals would eliminate them because they don't breed. Explain nuture?


Sure you can say nature. People are born with "defects" all the time. Are you saying that a baby born without arms or legs qualifies as "nurture" because humans couldn't have survived without arms and legs?



Didn't think of it that way and your right. I meant from a reproduciton point of view. As to animals that act in a homosexual manner..........I know it happens but it's also not the norm.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:11:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tazaroo:
You can't say nature. Thru natural selection......homosexuality amongst animals would eliminate them because they don't breed. Explain nuture?


Unless it's some kind of mutation, or rare combination of recessive genes, or something similar.

Just because it's nature doesn't mean it's hereditary.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:12:35 AM EST
Nature? Nurture? you sound like my liberal 11th grade English teacher.
Anyway, It's both. Some people are just really horny bastards. Although I still believe many people are born gay. Why else would someone willingly take it in the ass from another man.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:13:24 AM EST
Originally Posted By BushBoar:
Originally Posted By Tazaroo:
You can't say nature. Thru natural selection......homosexuality amongst animals would eliminate them because they don't breed. Explain nuture?


Unless it's some kind of mutation, or rare combination of recessive genes, or something similar.

Just because it's nature doesn't mean it's hereditary or inherently beneficial to humanity's survival.


Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:13:24 AM EST
Disease.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:13:53 AM EST
regardless of the reason, it's gotta be one of the nastiest topics out there.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:15:01 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:15:06 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:15:16 AM EST
nature. you can tell in kids as young as 9-10. i've watched more than a couple grow up and come out in their mid teens.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:15:44 AM EST
I tend to go with nature and see those who tend to choose homosexuality after experimentation or trying to live otherwise as a longer route to the same place.

FWIW,I tend to see nothing "wrong" with homosexuality,am in favor of gay marriage and don't care if gays adopt children but I do believe that homosexuality is a result of some genetics telling the brain "hey,we really don't need to reproduce".It's just natures way of weeding out a portion of the gene pool.It doesn't mean that they are in any way inferior people,just that nature has decided that there are some genetic traits that the individual probably shouldn't pass on.It's just my supposition though and obviously I'm not a geneticist or anthropologist.

We don't know enough about genetics and human chemistry to currently know and I imagine that if it were to become known that homosexuality was caused by X natural cause that there would be an enormous uproar in the gay community that science was claiming them to be broken-as opposed to the religious who now think they're simply sinners and perverts.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:15:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By odiedodi:
Nature? Nurture? you sound like my liberal 11th grade English teacher.


Nature vs. Nurture is a common analysis performed and discussed by scientists of all idealogies. Stop projecting.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:15:59 AM EST
If either one of my boys turn out to be a pole smoker it was nature.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:17:50 AM EST
Mental Disorder.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:18:18 AM EST
1/2 Ho and 1/2 Mo.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:18:31 AM EST
Originally Posted By ShingleMonkey:
If either one of my boys turn out to be a pole smoker it was nature.



Will they have inherited it from you or their mother?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:18:33 AM EST
7 OUT OF EVERY 10 Gay men under the age of 65 WOULD LET A HOT 25 YEAR OLD FEMALE GIVE THEM HEAD OR A HAND JOB ) BUT ONLY 1 OUT OF EVERY 10 HETROSEXUIAL MALES WOULD LET A 25 YEAROLD GUY GIVE THEM A bj or hj.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:19:31 AM EST
Shivan do you have something you want to tell us? It's OK..... nothing will happen.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:20:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By Chris_1522:
There is theory, speculation, and emotion. There are no facts.


Fair enough, "facts" was poor word choice. There are studies, there are historically un-argued examples, there are questioned examples/studies, and there are pure opinions. I was looking for less of the opinion and more of the studies.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:21:02 AM EST
While there is some data to suggest a genetic influence, there is more scientific data to suggest it results from what happens while the child is developing in the womb. There are brain developmental differences along with hormone changes. Nurture has been taken off of the table by all but the most narrow minded ignorant religous zealots...
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:22:48 AM EST
Originally Posted By Calgunner:
7 OUT OF EVERY 10 Gay men under the age of 65 WOULD LET A HOT 25 YEAR OLD FEMALE GIVE THEM HEAD OR A HAND JOB ) BUT ONLY 1 OUT OF EVERY 10 HETROSEXUIAL MALES WOULD LET A 25 YEAROLD GUY GIVE THEM A bj or hj.


Bump for effect ...
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:23:15 AM EST
Its not gay as long as you punch them when its over.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:24:54 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 6:26:03 AM EST by SpankMonkey]
Interesting... that's a good way to look at it.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:25:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By SpankMonkey:
Shivan do you have something you want to tell us? It's OK..... nothing will happen.


Yes, my co-worker "did a paper in college" and believes with all her heart that homosexuality is not a choice, in most cases. She cited chromosome abnormalities, and other medical "oddities" for a majority of the homosexuality that exists - making it nature. I stated that in large part you do not see the animal kingdom engaging in homosexual acts, unless it was tied to dominance (aka rape). She stated there were findings that a lot of animal species engage in homosexual behavior. I looked it up, 1500 species out of 15,000,000+, or less than 1/10,000th of a percent.

So, I'm looking for more "enlightened" viewpoints, hopefully with something to base the opinions. General Discussion is certainly entertaining though.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:26:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By SplintNicket:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
No poll, voice your opinion and support it with facts....


Both.



Neither.

-3D
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:26:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By Tazaroo:
You can't say nature. Thru natural selection......homosexuality amongst animals would eliminate them because they don't breed.

+1
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:27:29 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:28:30 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:28:50 AM EST

Sometimes it might take either one of the two, sometimes it might take both.

Humans are very good at learned behavior. Someone who might not have the gay gene, if there is one, might be gay anyways through their environment. Some might not have been gay through their environment, but turned out gay because of the gay gene. Maybe some people can be conditioned through their environment to resist the gay gene (we suppress basic instincts all the time) even though they have it. Maybe there is no gay gene and it's all 100% environment. Maybe environment isn't enough to drive someone to stick it in the same gender.

We can go on. Just because the gay gene is present, doesn't mean it's dominant. Maybe one sex has a recessive gay gene and the other can have a straight or gay gene (straight gene would probably be dominant since most people are straight). Maybe either sex can have either gay or straight genes and you need both + environment to make you gay. Maybe it's an instinct we revert to when we're over populated (or some other environmental trigger).

If we discover that there is a gay gene, many lulz will be had. The "genetic gays" will look down on the "environmental product gays", or at least some of them will. Straight guys who have a genetic disposition to being gay but aren't gay because of their environment will never live it down if that gets out
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:29:00 AM EST
Nature's built in population control.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:29:30 AM EST
If it was nature they would have been exterminated already
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:29:36 AM EST
Originally Posted By DriveNASCAR:
Originally Posted By ShingleMonkey:
If either one of my boys turn out to be a pole smoker it was nature.



Will they have inherited it from you or their mother?


Im guessing her, she likes the cawk.

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:30:47 AM EST
Originally Posted By Interceptor_Knight:
Nurture has been taken off of the table by all but the most narrow minded ignorant religous zealots...


Possibly, but I'm certainly no religious zealot, and to ask the question seems to indicate I have a broader mindset than that for which I am given credit.

It would appear that some scientifically conducted studies point to choices being made well after parental influences stopped. They do not appear to be tied to religion, at least on the surface.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:31:54 AM EST
Originally Posted By snoopaloop:
Nature's built in population control.


Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:33:02 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:34:48 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 6:36:30 AM EST by Shootist_Jeff]
Originally Posted By Fearlessleader01:

Originally Posted By Tazaroo:
You can't say nature. Thru natural selection......homosexuality amongst animals would eliminate them because they don't breed. Explain nuture?


Homosexual monkeys, giraffes, and dogs aren't uncommon.

I doubt they're taught that.


Someone doesn't understand "nurture".

It would most likely be both like with many behaviors. There are likely those that are more prone to it but their environment would certainly play a role.

Nurture does not mean that it's taught but that it's learned or adapted to as a result of the environment. An example could be the affect of childhood sexual abuse on someone's sexuality.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:34:51 AM EST
Who cares what 'causes' it?

If it's a choice, well, we thankfully live in a country where you're allowed to make choices.

If it's not, it's still not hurting anyone, so who cares?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:35:45 AM EST
Originally Posted By jsheaff1282:
Originally Posted By Tazaroo:
You can't say nature. Thru natural selection......homosexuality amongst animals would eliminate them because they don't breed.

+1


Wrong.

You are referring to a population. If a population of animals is homosexual, sure, that population will die out. This model doesn't apply to individuals.

It most definitely is nature.

Of course, I have relatives who ferociously insist that homosexuality is nothing more than demon-inspired hateful rebellion directed toward the creator of the universe
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:36:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By ranchhand:
If it was nature they would have been exterminated already.

For many years it was expected for everyone to marry a woman and have kids.

Many gay men did this as well and thus managed to pass on their genes despite themselves.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:38:44 AM EST
Originally Posted By max229:

Originally Posted By ranchhand:
If it was nature they would have been exterminated already.

For many years it was expected for everyone to marry a woman and have kids.

Many gay men did this as well and thus managed to pass on their genes despite themselves.


This is Why Gay/lesbian community hate teh Bisexuials...
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:39:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By SplintNicket:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
No poll, voice your opinion and support it with facts....


Both.


Agreed, some of both. I don't agree with the "If it's nature it's OK" line of reasoning however.

It's not OK, too much serious depravity encouraged.

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