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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 10/3/2005 6:59:25 AM EDT
Is it possible to believe in a Christian God and at the same time believe that extraterrestrial beings exist?

To be clear, I'm not talking about a belief that UFOs are a supernatural phenomena. I'm saying, if there are beings living on other planets that may or may not visit us, can that be reconciled with a belief that Jesus came to Earth in salvation of mankind? If other ET life exists, would Jesus have needed to visit them to ensure that they could receive salvation and pass to heaven? Would the ETs have needed to receive the scripture?

And is the concept of extraterrestrial life somehow inconsistent with the notion that God created one earth (is there such a concept?)?
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:40:31 AM EDT

The bible doesn't say that salvation is offered to anyone other then man. No demon or animal, no matter how remorseful they are, could ever be redemed. Salvation can never be extended to demons, animals, or ET no matter how intelligent they are.

Shok
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 7:50:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2005 7:52:30 AM EDT by arowneragain]
I find no conclusive evidence for or against life on other planets within the Bible.

I could be wrong, though.

edit:

I didn't vote in the poll.


My choice would have been 'Christian, unsure about life elsewhere, no strong opinion either way'.

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 8:10:22 AM EDT
Well, let's assume for a moment that corporeal, sentient and free beings exist apart from man somewhere in the Universe.

The Bible tells us that the only other sentient beings apart from man are angels. But being spiritual they are no longer "free" in the sense we are: they're either angels or demons. You can't convert them. They made their choice for or against God at some point in the start of their existence and have remained in that choice forever.

Men however were created innocent but in time - and were so until tempted and fell. After Adam and Eve we were exposed to the stark choice for or against God.

So let's say they come to us or we find them. We know from the get go that they're not angels or demons, so aren't wholly pure or wholly evil. They'd either be like Adam and Eve before the fall (wholly innocent but not yet tempted.) If so, then our moral duty would be to STAY AWAY FROM THEM least we corrupt them even unintentionally.

Or they'd be like us, fallen and in need of redemption.

If so, then like with other men, we'd need caution because like other men they will have all the vices and proclivities men have albeit in their own way or twist.

Until conclusively proven otherwise we'd have to assume that Jesus is their savior as well. But talk about 'inculturation' and the problem of translation.... their fallen nature would be the result of their own version of Adam and Eve, not ours.

CS Lewis' trilogy "out of the silent planet" goes into these ponderings at some length.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 8:21:23 AM EDT
Read about Ezekial's Wheel - One of the best UFO descriptions ever written. Remember he had no modern scientific knowledge. Do a Bible search for "Heavenly Host" and fiery chariots. Jesus had a "Bright Star" above his birth place that was unusual. Jesus "ascended" into heaven. Virgin Birth = Cloning? What is an angel? They fly around don't they? These are just some ideas to ponder. They have expanded and deepened my Christian beliefs.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 9:00:24 AM EDT
I don't see how belief in ET's in any way conflicts with Christian doctrine.

I don't believe ET's are visiting us, but I believe that its a big universe and its very likely that life exists elsewhere.

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 9:02:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By QShok:
The bible doesn't say that salvation is offered to anyone other then man. No demon or animal, no matter how remorseful they are, could ever be redemed. Salvation can never be extended to demons, animals, or ET no matter how intelligent they are.

Shok



Who is to say what God's definition of mankind is. At one time some didn't include blacks or asians in that category, but few would deny they can recieve God's salvation today.

If God exists AND ET's exist, then ET's are in His plan somewhere.

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 10:39:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By QShok:
The bible doesn't say that salvation is offered to anyone other then man. No demon or animal, no matter how remorseful they are, could ever be redemed. Salvation can never be extended to demons, animals, or ET no matter how intelligent they are.

Shok



Who is to say what God's definition of mankind is.



    Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
    Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.


God created man and all descendents of Adam and Eve are mankind. It is His Word, His definition.



If God exists AND ET's exist, then ET's are in His plan somewhere.


True, but not in his plan of salvation of mankind. Angels, fallen angels, animals, plants, fish, and ET if he exists are not in His plan of salvation.

Shok
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 11:10:04 AM EDT
I'm not qualified to speak to this on spiritual terms because the Bible is silent on it, as far as I can tell.

The Bible doesn't tell us everything, but it tells us what we need to know.

Did He put other folks out there? I don't know one way or the other.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 11:10:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By QShok:

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By QShok:
The bible doesn't say that salvation is offered to anyone other then man. No demon or animal, no matter how remorseful they are, could ever be redemed. Salvation can never be extended to demons, animals, or ET no matter how intelligent they are.

Shok



Who is to say what God's definition of mankind is.



    Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
    Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.


God created man and all descendents of Adam and Eve are mankind. It is His Word, His definition.



If God exists AND ET's exist, then ET's are in His plan somewhere.


True, but not in his plan of salvation of mankind. Angels, fallen angels, animals, plants, fish, and ET if he exists are not in His plan of salvation.

Shok



Your putting your interpretation on the words in the Bible. If you wish to get literal to the point of stupidity then Adam wasn't alive because Eve was "the mother of all living".

That story, which may or may not be historical, only concerns itself with life on earth. God doesn't bother to discuss life on other planets with the prophets, for whatever reason.

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 11:28:18 AM EDT
Currently Satan lives in the area we know as space and our atmosphere. The so called aliens are nothing more than Satan's angels doing their best to turn man's eyes from God to "what might be."
The whole alien thing was created by Satan to give people an explanation of why millions WILL dissapear off the Earth soon without a trace. The only thing holding Satan back from being on this Earth in full fury is the Holy Spirit in the Church. When Christ calls us in the air at the last trump or the Rapture as is is known as, Satan will be kicked out of the heavens and will be turned loose on the Earth. I am glad I wont be here when that happens. Jesus says that is the time of the tribulation.

Satan will enter the body of the man who will rule the revived Roman Empire (European Union) after he is fatally wounded in the head. This he will do to emulate the ressurection of Christ. He will then force people to worship him as God or die. I could go on but, the topic was aliens.....no there is not life as you are thinking of it outside of Earth. To believe so is putting yourself in jeapordy of missing life ever after. When you see millions missing all at once, don't look to alien invasions, look to the only people left who will be able to help you....At that time Israel will realize thier calling and preach the Word of God like it was meant to be.
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 11:49:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By QShok:

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By QShok:
The bible doesn't say that salvation is offered to anyone other then man. No demon or animal, no matter how remorseful they are, could ever be redemed. Salvation can never be extended to demons, animals, or ET no matter how intelligent they are.

Shok



Who is to say what God's definition of mankind is.



    Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
    Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.


God created man and all descendents of Adam and Eve are mankind. It is His Word, His definition.



If God exists AND ET's exist, then ET's are in His plan somewhere.


True, but not in his plan of salvation of mankind. Angels, fallen angels, animals, plants, fish, and ET if he exists are not in His plan of salvation.

Shok



Your putting your interpretation on the words in the Bible. If you wish to get literal to the point of stupidity then Adam wasn't alive because Eve was "the mother of all living".

That story, which may or may not be historical, only concerns itself with life on earth. God doesn't bother to discuss life on other planets with the prophets, for whatever reason.






    Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bore Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.



Adam was alive and if Eve was "the mother of all living" then Adam was "the father of all living". Unless ET is a descendent of Adam and Eve there is no salvation for them just like the angels.


    Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Shok
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:21:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By QShok:

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By QShok:

Originally Posted By Dino:

Originally Posted By QShok:
The bible doesn't say that salvation is offered to anyone other then man. No demon or animal, no matter how remorseful they are, could ever be redemed. Salvation can never be extended to demons, animals, or ET no matter how intelligent they are.

Shok



Who is to say what God's definition of mankind is.



    Gen 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
    Gen 3:20 And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.


God created man and all descendents of Adam and Eve are mankind. It is His Word, His definition.



If God exists AND ET's exist, then ET's are in His plan somewhere.


True, but not in his plan of salvation of mankind. Angels, fallen angels, animals, plants, fish, and ET if he exists are not in His plan of salvation.

Shok



Your putting your interpretation on the words in the Bible. If you wish to get literal to the point of stupidity then Adam wasn't alive because Eve was "the mother of all living".

That story, which may or may not be historical, only concerns itself with life on earth. God doesn't bother to discuss life on other planets with the prophets, for whatever reason.






    Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bore Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.



Adam was alive and if Eve was "the mother of all living" then Adam was "the father of all living". Unless ET is a descendent of Adam and Eve there is no salvation for them just like the angels.


    Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

    2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


Shok




There is nowhere in scripture where the concept of ET's is addressed. Quoting passages that don't address ET's proves nothing. It requires a "special" interpretation to get anything about ET's from the Bible. Try picking up your Strong's and seeing how that verse is interpreted.

You people complain about Catholics making stuff up, then turn right around and do exactly what you falsely accuse them of.

If you like scripture so much, try Luke 6:42

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 12:35:05 PM EDT


I never said ET was in the bible. I did say that salvation is ONLY for mankind. Since it is only for mankind that rules out all else such as animals, angels, fallen angels, plants, rocks, fish, birds, Sponge Bob, and the hypothetical ET. Its called the process of elimination. I can assure you that if any life or intelligent life exists on other planets God has no plan of salvation for it.

Which reminds me of a joke.

    A Priest, a Pentecostal preacher and a Rabbi

    A priest, a Pentecostal preacher and a rabbi all served as chaplains to the students of a Northern University. They would get together two or three times a week for coffee and talk shop. One day, someone made the comment that preaching to people isn't really all that hard. A real challenge would be to preach to a bear.

    One thing led to another and they decided to do a seven-day experiment. They would all go out into the woods, find a bear, preach to it, and attempt to convert it. Seven days later, they're all together to discuss the experience.

    Father Flannery, who has his arm in a sling, is on crutches and has various bandages, goes first. "Well," he says, "I went into the woods to find me a bear. And when I found him I began to read to him from the Catechism.

    Well, that bear wanted nothing to do with me and began to slap me. So I quick grabbed my holy water, sprinkled him and, by the grace of God, he became as gentle as a lamb. The bishop is coming out next week to give him first communion and confirmation."

    Reverend Billy Bob spoke next. He was in a wheelchair, with an arm and both legs in casts and an IV drip. In his best fire and brimstone oratory voice, he proclaimed, "WELL, brothers, you KNOW that we don't sprinkle...WE DUNK!

    "I went out and I FOUND me a bear. And then I began to read to him from God's HOLY WORD! But that bear wanted nothing to do with me. So I took HOLD of him and we began to wrestle We wrestle down one hill, UP another and DOWN another until we came to a crick. So I quick DUNKED him and BAPTIZED his hairy soul.

    "And just like you said, he became as gentle as a lamb. We spent the rest of the week in fellowship - feasting on God's Holy Word and praising the Lord."

    They both looked down at the rabbi, who was lying in a hospital bed. He was in a body cast and traction with IV's and monitors running in and out of him. He was in bad shape. The rabbi looks up and says, "Oy, vey! You fellows don't know what trouble is until you try to circumcise one of those hairy buggers!


Shok
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:29:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 2:30:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By VA-gunnut:
HALLOWED ARE THEE ORAI!




­

<­BR>







Moderator/staff trolling in his own forum?


Interesting.....



*cough*

Link Posted: 10/3/2005 4:41:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/3/2005 4:45:07 PM EDT
why would God only make us in this vast universe?

i belive in both
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 7:25:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2005 7:27:48 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Is it possible to believe in a Christian God and at the same time believe that extraterrestrial beings exist?

To be clear, I'm not talking about a belief that UFOs are a supernatural phenomena. I'm saying, if there are beings living on other planets that may or may not visit us, can that be reconciled with a belief that Jesus came to Earth in salvation of mankind? If other ET life exists, would Jesus have needed to visit them to ensure that they could receive salvation and pass to heaven? Would the ETs have needed to receive the scripture?

And is the concept of extraterrestrial life somehow inconsistent with the notion that God created one earth (is there such a concept?)?



The Bible is the account of the creation of and history of humanity. The history of the universe and scope of the universe are bigger than the Bible, as it only really concerns itself with humanity.

What God has created in the past and what He will create in the future are beyond the scope of any solid Christian doctrine, save for the precious bits and pieces that are scattered throughout the Bible that hint at such answers.

God is, essentiallhy, a completely alien form of life, as He is unlike anything we have here on earth. As are angels, demonic powers, etc.

The Bible should not be stretched beyond what it says. It is silent on many issues, so Christian doctrine is silent on them too. God has created intelligent life other than man (angels) but that does not necessarily mean that he has created UFO driving aliens who abduct rednecks from trailer parks or that talk to Tom Cruise.

Link Posted: 10/4/2005 9:35:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By QShok:

I never said ET was in the bible. I did say that salvation is ONLY for mankind. Since it is only for mankind that rules out all else such as animals, angels, fallen angels, plants, rocks, fish, birds, Sponge Bob, and the hypothetical ET. Its called the process of elimination. I can assure you that if any life or intelligent life exists on other planets God has no plan of salvation for it.

Which reminds me of a joke.

    A Priest, a Pentecostal preacher and a Rabbi

    A priest, a Pentecostal preacher and a rabbi all served as chaplains to the students of a Northern University. They would get together two or three times a week for coffee and talk shop. One day, someone made the comment that preaching to people isn't really all that hard. A real challenge would be to preach to a bear.

    One thing led to another and they decided to do a seven-day experiment. They would all go out into the woods, find a bear, preach to it, and attempt to convert it. Seven days later, they're all together to discuss the experience.

    Father Flannery, who has his arm in a sling, is on crutches and has various bandages, goes first. "Well," he says, "I went into the woods to find me a bear. And when I found him I began to read to him from the Catechism.

    Well, that bear wanted nothing to do with me and began to slap me. So I quick grabbed my holy water, sprinkled him and, by the grace of God, he became as gentle as a lamb. The bishop is coming out next week to give him first communion and confirmation."

    Reverend Billy Bob spoke next. He was in a wheelchair, with an arm and both legs in casts and an IV drip. In his best fire and brimstone oratory voice, he proclaimed, "WELL, brothers, you KNOW that we don't sprinkle...WE DUNK!

    "I went out and I FOUND me a bear. And then I began to read to him from God's HOLY WORD! But that bear wanted nothing to do with me. So I took HOLD of him and we began to wrestle We wrestle down one hill, UP another and DOWN another until we came to a crick. So I quick DUNKED him and BAPTIZED his hairy soul.

    "And just like you said, he became as gentle as a lamb. We spent the rest of the week in fellowship - feasting on God's Holy Word and praising the Lord."

    They both looked down at the rabbi, who was lying in a hospital bed. He was in a body cast and traction with IV's and monitors running in and out of him. He was in bad shape. The rabbi looks up and says, "Oy, vey! You fellows don't know what trouble is until you try to circumcise one of those hairy buggers!


Shok



Good joke :) You ever hear "The Preacher and the Bear" by Jerry Reed?

Your concept of mankind is limited. Should we meet another race of sentient beings, why wouldn't "mankind" encompass them? Because they aren't homo sapiens, does that mean they don't have same unalienable *grin* rights we have?

Link Posted: 10/4/2005 9:37:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
The Bible should not be stretched beyond what it says. It is silent on many issues, so Christian doctrine is silent on them too. God has created intelligent life other than man (angels) but that does not necessarily mean that he has created UFO driving aliens who abduct rednecks from trailer parks or that talk to Tom Cruise.



Agreed, I'm reasonably confident that life exists elsewhere in the universe. I'm even more confident that they don't come here to give anal probes Bubbah and his wife and sister, Trisha.

Link Posted: 10/4/2005 9:38:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dino:

Good joke :) You ever hear "The Preacher and the Bear" by Jerry Reed?



Nope.


Your concept of mankind is limited. Should we meet another race of sentient beings, why wouldn't "mankind" encompass them? Because they aren't homo sapiens, does that mean they don't have same unalienable *grin* rights we have?





Shok
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 9:43:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2005 9:50:25 AM EDT by Dino]
great song!

The Preacher and the Bear

A Preacher went out huntin, t'was on one Sunday morn
He knew its against his religion, but he took his shotgun along
He shot himself three mighty fine quail
and one little measly hare
And on his way returning home,
he saw a great big Grizzly Bear

Now the bear marched out in the middle of the road
and waltzed to the Preacher you see
The Preacher got so excited, he climbed up a 'simmon tree
The bear sat down upon the ground,
the Preacher climbed out on a limb
Well he cast his eyes to the Lord in the skies,
and these words he said to Him

Oh Lordy, didn't you deliver Daniel from the lion's den
Also, deliver Jonah, from the belly of a whale and then
Three Hebrew children from the fiery furnace
so the Good Book do declare
Now Oh Lord, if you can't help me,
well then please don't-cha help that bear

Now the Preacher was up in that tree,
I think it was all night
He said Mr Bear if you bother me,
I'll give you an awful fight
Just about that time the limb let go
and the Preacher came tumblin' down
You could see him getting his razor out
before he hit the ground

He hit the ground cuttin' right and left,
he put up a very game fight
Just then the bear grabbed the Preacher,
and he squeezed him a little too tight
The Preacher dropped his razor, the bear held on with a vim
Well he cast his eyes to the Lord in the skies
and these words he said to Him

They fought all the way to the river,
it was a terrible fight
That bear just kept a-hanging on,
but the Preacher was a-doing all right
He dragged that beast right down in the water
it was three times in and out
Then the bear got up and he limped away
and the Preacher began to shout

Oh, Lordy, didn't you deliver Daniel from the lion's den
Also, deliver Jonah, from the belly of a whale, Amen,
And oh Lord, it may not seem like much from way up there,
But the hardest thing I ever done was baptize that (bleep bleep) bear
Link Posted: 10/4/2005 7:32:45 PM EDT
It's hard to fathom that a race of beings might have been created on another planet and advanced technologically enough to have developed to cross the vast distances of the universe. I tend to believe that we are GOD's creation here on Earth, and that there arent others in the universe with the exception of those in Heaven and demons. But who's to say it isnt possible
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 7:41:24 PM EDT
Read Revelations 21:1thru 27 It discuss New Jerusalem, it gives good description and even measurements.

That was all it took to convince me, I'm surprised no one else mentioned it.
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 2:11:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Real_estate_salesman:
Read Revelations 21:1thru 27 It discuss New Jerusalem, it gives good description and even measurements.

That was all it took to convince me, I'm surprised no one else mentioned it.


Yes & it says (some where) "Jesus came down to earth and TOOK THE BODY OF A MAN.......". I think maybe Jesus looked like the greys that crashed in Rosswell, NM. before he "took the body of a man".

It also says that in heaven we will not look like we look here on earth. Interesting.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 3:39:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jimmy_Hoffa:

Originally Posted By Real_estate_salesman:
Read Revelations 21:1thru 27 It discuss New Jerusalem, it gives good description and even measurements.

That was all it took to convince me, I'm surprised no one else mentioned it.


Yes & it says (some where) "Jesus came down to earth and TOOK THE BODY OF A MAN.......". I think maybe Jesus looked like the greys that crashed in Rosswell, NM. before he "took the body of a man".

It also says that in heaven we will not look like we look here on earth. Interesting.



God is not some bug-eyed alien.

The Bible says man was created IN HIS IMAGE. It also says that God is SPIRIT, meaning He does not have a body of flesh like you or I. Of The Trinity, only Christ has a fleshly body like yours and mine.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 3:49:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 6:23:40 AM EDT
Dino,
Thanks for the post with the jerry Reed song. It reminded me of my Dad. He's passed on now and I never knew the whole song but I remember him singing the "3 hebrew children from the firey furnace" part.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 7:57:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 1cheapshot:
Dino,
Thanks for the post with the jerry Reed song. It reminded me of my Dad. He's passed on now and I never knew the whole song but I remember him singing the "3 hebrew children from the firey furnace" part.



my pleasure,
My grandfather used to sing it to me as well. That song and "Old Shep" are two of my favorites as I can always close my eyes and hear my grandpa singing them to me as a child.

Link Posted: 10/7/2005 8:32:09 AM EDT
I've often thought of it this way:

God is the creator. If there are "people" on other planets, they would also be God's creation. In fact, assuming that they are "people" they too would likely be created in God's image, and would probably look like you and me.

If someone from another galaxy built a ship, flew to earth, and visited us, I think they would look like us. Kind of like the alien from The Day the Earth Stood Still (Great classic, by the way).
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